OFFICIAL KYLE got traded for westbrook KUZMA THREAD
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drae
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:43 pm    Post subject:

I like Kuz but I have a feeling Lakers trade Kuz this off season going all in for the next two years. He's expressed interest in being paid for his next contract anyway, I don't think we will, and better to trade him than lose him for nothing like Randle
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:41 am    Post subject:

I hope Lakers will stick with him. Part ways with Kuz will be mistake in my opinion. After getting this most welcomed experience this year I think it will make him better , more impactful player. He is not star , and never will be, but valuable part of championship team I think more than yes.
I cheer for Kyle and hope he will stay Laker.
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drae
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:46 am    Post subject:

It's not about how impactful he is, it's about how much he'll want after his contract is up and whether the Lakers will want to pay that. Because if we don't
want top pay that then do we really want to let him walk for nothing, but if we do then we definitely keep him
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:04 am    Post subject:

Lakers do not have to be concerned with how much he will make because that is a year away. I am certain going into a contract year, Kuz will go all out and not have as many no show games. He knows a good season is the difference in a 50-60M contract or a 20-30M contract.

What the Lakers have to do is figure out if he can fit. Morris is the better 3 point shooter and microball big. Dwight is the physical starting 5 who can defend elite legit 5s. AD prefers the 4 in the RS and plays more 5 in the playoffs. But with Lebron being a 3 defensively, that means Kuz has to be able to defend a lot of 2s or 4s. This is where KCP had more value, because KCP flat out defends the 2s and 3s. And then KCP is a better 3 point shooter as well. On paper, Kuzma should be able to do all the things KCP does for the team. Shoot the 3, cut, defend, bring speed and energy. For whatever reason, Kuzma did not bring that energy on a consistent basis last season.

For Kuz it is about finding a defensive niche on the team, and then also being a more consistent 3 ball shooter. He can cut well, he is a solid slasher. He can make shots, probably our 3rd best shotmaker. The thing is I see him as a 15-20 minutes a game guy on a team like this unless he improves his 3 ball and finds a defensive position at a starting level. Can he defend starting level 2s and 4s on a consistent basis?

Personally, I think a team like the Lakers needs as many young horses as they can get. They are a vet group, and guys like Kuzma, Caruso, THT, these are the sort of dudes you can get better production from by internal development. I would only deal Kuzma for a clear cut starting level talent that compliments AD-Bron.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:21 am    Post subject:

Wolfpac, I don't think it's an effort and energy issue with Kuz. It's his bball IQ and his shooting that are lacking. It's clear as day now that his 3 ball from summer league/the first part of his rookie year was a fluke. I don't see contract year motivation fixing those things.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:19 am    Post subject:

Well KCP, his first 3 years in the NBA his 3 point shooting was

31.9
34.5
30.9

He became a better shooter as his career has hit his mid-career point. I think Kuzma like KCP is not a great 3 point shooter, but he can get going. To get going, you also need to take good in rhythm shots and take them regularly. This is what KCP gained as a starter, that Kuzma does not.

I totally would move Kuzma for the right deal, but I also understand that he has more talent than KCP. I believe if he is able to figure things out the way KCP did, he will be just as valuable, if not more. He has all the skills you need in a 3rd option/4th option role player. Willing 3 point shooter, especially from the corner. Slasher. Cutter. Occasional 1 on 1 scoring threat.

He can be a very good 3rd/4th option type, but he will need to make the strides that KCP made this past season. And we all know better than anyone, how long it actually took KCP to become this KCP.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:24 am    Post subject:

I just wonder if he's going to be happy in the same role next year in a contract year. My sense is no.
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CRoost
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:31 am    Post subject:

LandsbergerRules wrote:
Wolfpac, I don't think it's an effort and energy issue with Kuz. It's his bball IQ and his shooting that are lacking. It's clear as day now that his 3 ball from summer league/the first part of his rookie year was a fluke. I don't see contract year motivation fixing those things.


He made a leap defensively from Covid break to bubble. That’s a harder process than shooting considering how atrocious he was in the beginning. Shooting will come as he get comfortable with his new form. His b-ball IQ can only get better with experience. If you look at the guys especially the late bloomer like him, it takes time for them for game to slow down. It’s a process.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:31 am    Post subject:

The Lebrons wrote:
I just wonder if he's going to be happy in the same role next year in a contract year. My sense is no.

The thing is at least he knows what his role is. He probably is at a place where he can see what winning is all about, and make the decision. Go to a bad team, be a 2nd or 3rd option, and put up 20 a night. Or be on the best team, and be a potential 3rd option off the bench, and a closer, if I play the right way in my role. It is not that he can not fill in the role assigned to him, he can. It is not a skill issue, it is a mental thing. He has to slow the (bleep) down, and not try to do everything so fast. He is trying to play at the speed that he used to under Walton. It took him time, and will take him time to lose all the losing habits he developed his first 2 years as a Laker.

I do think he has the skills to succeed as a 25 minutes a night player for this team. Get 10-12 shots, and give the team 12-14 points a game, effectively. It is about whether he truly wants to dedicate himself to being that player, or he wants to go try to be a 2nd or 3rd option on a losing team. You are right, it's maybe not what he wants to be, but at least he knows now coming into this next season what his role requires from him. If he makes even a little improvement, on a team where there are so many wide open shots for him, and so much spacing and help on D, it will go a long way. I mean just look at KCP and Caruso. Even Green. These guys get wide open shots all day long. I think we expected too much from Kuz. We wanted him to be the go to guy off the bench. It's a lot better for us and him, if we just let him grow defensively and get smarter with his shots on offense. Some of his cuts in the playoffs were a thing of beauty. I have no doubt in 1-2 more years of this, he will begin to get very good at this role. The question is a) If the Lakers want to pay him for that and b) whether he will be happy being that sort of player. To be honest, I don't think Kuz will be a top 2 option on a good team. So why be a good scorer on a bad team? Better to be the 3rd best scorer on a great team.

Everyone knows he's young on the team and they get on him. He will begin to get it. I do not think at all it is a lost cause with Kuz, because even though he didn't "get it" this year, his numbers were as good as any 3rd best player on the team.
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CRoost
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:36 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Well KCP, his first 3 years in the NBA his 3 point shooting was

31.9
34.5
30.9

He became a better shooter as his career has hit his mid-career point. I think Kuzma like KCP is not a great 3 point shooter, but he can get going. To get going, you also need to take good in rhythm shots and take them regularly. This is what KCP gained as a starter, that Kuzma does not.

I totally would move Kuzma for the right deal, but I also understand that he has more talent than KCP. I believe if he is able to figure things out the way KCP did, he will be just as valuable, if not more. He has all the skills you need in a 3rd option/4th option role player. Willing 3 point shooter, especially from the corner. Slasher. Cutter. Occasional 1 on 1 scoring threat.

He can be a very good 3rd/4th option type, but he will need to make the strides that KCP made this past season. And we all know better than anyone, how long it actually took KCP to become this KCP.


Kuz has the work ethic to put it together . Caruso even said that him and Kuz , all they do is ball. I also expect progress from Caruso especially with his shooting and playmaking. Caruso has shown he connect better with Lebron than any of our players
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laker50
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:40 am    Post subject:

For what Kuzma brings to the table his salary is well worth it.
He can get hot at any time and carry the team.
Also his defense is improving.

Why pay big money and give up resources when not much is needed
to complete the Lakers if at all?
The Lakers did just won the NBA championship against excellent teams.

There are free agents that just come at the MLE cost which the Lakers should go after. You know who they are.
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CRoost
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:44 am    Post subject:

drae wrote:
It's not about how impactful he is, it's about how much he'll want after his contract is up and whether the Lakers will want to pay that. Because if we don't
want top pay that then do we really want to let him walk for nothing, but if we do then we definitely keep him


He’s cheap next year so we have the luxury of time to process his progress. His cap hold is an average salary . We don’t really have any long wing with his upside. Last year, he was injured in the beginning so he has to find his niche and play a role because our team is still trying to figure out that mix and that identity . But since we already won it, Vogel will have the room to utilize him and Caruso even if we sacrifice some regular season games.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:48 am    Post subject:

CRoost wrote:
drae wrote:
It's not about how impactful he is, it's about how much he'll want after his contract is up and whether the Lakers will want to pay that. Because if we don't
want top pay that then do we really want to let him walk for nothing, but if we do then we definitely keep him


He’s cheap next year so we have the luxury of time to process his progress. His cap hold is an average salary . We don’t really have any long wing with his upside. Last year, he has to play a role because our team is still trying to find that identity but since we already won it, Vogel will have the room to utilize him and Caruso even if we sacrifice some regular season games.

Yep, not against giving Caruso and Kuzma more leeway next year. We established the team as world class, champs. Now we can take some games for player development (To note, I think Vogel did this anyway with them last year).

I actually think a lot of the role guys will be better next year, because they know where they are supposed to be. Usually year 2 is better on offense. Much better. What slips in year 2 especially after a ring run is defense and that fire to close games. You see a lot of slow starts, lazy defense and a bit of coast mindset. This happened to majority of teams I've seen that won a ring. But on offense, I think we will be a lot better next year than we were this year. In fact, bubble offense, was better than in season offense. We ran some more depth to our offense. I think this is the way it will go for us. Where I would be concerned for next year is defense and focus. The will to win for mamba, the will to win for respect of the city to prove that AD was worth the trade and prove that Lebron > Kawhi. All gone.
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ThePageDude
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:48 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
The Lebrons wrote:
I just wonder if he's going to be happy in the same role next year in a contract year. My sense is no.

<snip>
Go to a bad team, be a 2nd or 3rd option, and put up 20 a night. Or be on the best team, and be a potential 3rd option off the bench, and a closer, if I play the right way in my role.
<snip>


Let's say I believe everything you say about his abilities and potential. The bottom line issue for his agent (and him) would be: what is the better path for maximizing his second contract? Would a 18-20 ppg starter get a better contract then an 6th/7th man on a championship team?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:52 am    Post subject:

ThePageDude wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
The Lebrons wrote:
I just wonder if he's going to be happy in the same role next year in a contract year. My sense is no.

<snip>
Go to a bad team, be a 2nd or 3rd option, and put up 20 a night. Or be on the best team, and be a potential 3rd option off the bench, and a closer, if I play the right way in my role.
<snip>


Let's say I believe everything you say about his abilities and potential. The bottom line issue for his agent (and him) would be: what is the better path for maximizing his second contract? Would a 18-20 ppg starter get a better contract then an 6th/7th man on a championship team?

This depends on what he accomplishes. If he does what KCP did for us this season, only as a 4/3 instead of 3/2 like KCP is, then Kuzma will get paid. A 3rd best player on a ring level team gets paid big time, just as much as a guy who is the 2nd best scorer on a really bad team. Unless Kuzma believes he can be much more than he was under Luke, I do not see how a player who gives you 17-18 ppg on a really bad team, gets paid way more than a 13 ppg on a great team.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:19 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:

<snip>
This depends on what he accomplishes. If he does what KCP did for us this season, only as a 4/3 instead of 3/2 like KCP is, then Kuzma will get paid. A 3rd best player on a ring level team gets paid big time, just as much as a guy who is the 2nd best scorer on a really bad team. Unless Kuzma believes he can be much more than he was under Luke, I do not see how a player who gives you 17-18 ppg on a really bad team, gets paid way more than a 13 ppg on a great team.


Your POV is entirely reasonable HOWEVER, what you are espousing is mature, reasoned thinking; I don't think most NBA 20-somethings (or their agents) think like this - they live in a brash/mamba world and their posses/agents will push them to believe in their own hype and promote the narrative that they're being limited/stifled and will shine when they're given the chance to be a starter somewhere.
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Jesusdelonla
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:00 am    Post subject:

Champion Kuz
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:01 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
CRoost wrote:
drae wrote:
It's not about how impactful he is, it's about how much he'll want after his contract is up and whether the Lakers will want to pay that. Because if we don't
want top pay that then do we really want to let him walk for nothing, but if we do then we definitely keep him


He’s cheap next year so we have the luxury of time to process his progress. His cap hold is an average salary . We don’t really have any long wing with his upside. Last year, he has to play a role because our team is still trying to find that identity but since we already won it, Vogel will have the room to utilize him and Caruso even if we sacrifice some regular season games.

Yep, not against giving Caruso and Kuzma more leeway next year. We established the team as world class, champs. Now we can take some games for player development (To note, I think Vogel did this anyway with them last year).

I actually think a lot of the role guys will be better next year, because they know where they are supposed to be. Usually year 2 is better on offense. Much better. What slips in year 2 especially after a ring run is defense and that fire to close games. You see a lot of slow starts, lazy defense and a bit of coast mindset. This happened to majority of teams I've seen that won a ring. But on offense, I think we will be a lot better next year than we were this year. In fact, bubble offense, was better than in season offense. We ran some more depth to our offense. I think this is the way it will go for us. Where I would be concerned for next year is defense and focus. The will to win for mamba, the will to win for respect of the city to prove that AD was worth the trade and prove that Lebron > Kawhi. All gone.


I agree with all of this.

However, I think you're overlooking one thing that will have this squad motivated next year and that's to shut up all the haters trying to diminish the championship they just won.

To shut up everyone who's calling it the "covid championship", "mickey mouse rings" etc...

To shut up everyone who's saying "they lucked up not having to play the Clippers or the Bucks."

To shut up everyone who's saying " they only won cause there was no Klay or Steph. No Durant and Kyrie."

I think this group will still have a lot of motivation next season.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:57 pm    Post subject:

Just saw something Windy reported that The Lakers see Danny Green, Kuz and a pick as too steep of an asking price for Victor Oladipo. Personally I take that deal every time and I expect he will have a bounce back year.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:03 pm    Post subject:

Luminous8 wrote:
Just saw something Windy reported that The Lakers see Danny Green, Kuz and a pick as too steep of an asking price for Victor Oladipo. Personally I take that deal every time and I expect he will have a bounce back year.


'Dipo is damaged goods.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:31 pm    Post subject:

Dr. Laker wrote:
Luminous8 wrote:
Just saw something Windy reported that The Lakers see Danny Green, Kuz and a pick as too steep of an asking price for Victor Oladipo. Personally I take that deal every time and I expect he will have a bounce back year.


'Dipo is damaged goods.


The same could have been said about a guy like PG13 after returning from injury in Indy or Gordon Hayward. Both came back after having time to fully recoup and heal up. Pg13 went on to become an mvp candidate and Hayward went on to be a pretty damn top flight 6th man type.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:30 pm    Post subject:

Luminous8 wrote:
Dr. Laker wrote:
Luminous8 wrote:
Just saw something Windy reported that The Lakers see Danny Green, Kuz and a pick as too steep of an asking price for Victor Oladipo. Personally I take that deal every time and I expect he will have a bounce back year.


'Dipo is damaged goods.


The same could have been said about a guy like PG13 after returning from injury in Indy or Gordon Hayward. Both came back after having time to fully recoup and heal up. Pg13 went on to become an mvp candidate and Hayward went on to be a pretty damn top flight 6th man type.


Are you saying that as a good or bad example of returning from injury?

Celtic fans expected more.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:22 pm    Post subject:

PlantedTanks wrote:
Luminous8 wrote:
Dr. Laker wrote:
Luminous8 wrote:
Just saw something Windy reported that The Lakers see Danny Green, Kuz and a pick as too steep of an asking price for Victor Oladipo. Personally I take that deal every time and I expect he will have a bounce back year.


'Dipo is damaged goods.


The same could have been said about a guy like PG13 after returning from injury in Indy or Gordon Hayward. Both came back after having time to fully recoup and heal up. Pg13 went on to become an mvp candidate and Hayward went on to be a pretty damn top flight 6th man type.


Are you saying that as a good or bad example of returning from injury?

Celtic fans expected more.


It’s a Good thing. Hayward didn’t have the mind of athletic ability Dipo had before the injuries. Nor was he as good as dipo as a two way player imo. But Hayward bounced back and still put up a very respectable year for a fourth option who happened to be leap frogged during his return from that injury in Tatum/brown and the signing of Kemba. Hayward still brought them 18/7/4 on 50/38/85 shooting splits. That’s a hell of a player at fourth option. I mean the guy never once scored a full 20 a game so what more can they ask for??
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:51 pm    Post subject:

Luminous8 wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
Luminous8 wrote:
Dr. Laker wrote:
Luminous8 wrote:
Just saw something Windy reported that The Lakers see Danny Green, Kuz and a pick as too steep of an asking price for Victor Oladipo. Personally I take that deal every time and I expect he will have a bounce back year.


'Dipo is damaged goods.


The same could have been said about a guy like PG13 after returning from injury in Indy or Gordon Hayward. Both came back after having time to fully recoup and heal up. Pg13 went on to become an mvp candidate and Hayward went on to be a pretty damn top flight 6th man type.


Are you saying that as a good or bad example of returning from injury?

Celtic fans expected more.


It’s a Good thing. Hayward didn’t have the mind of athletic ability Dipo had before the injuries. Nor was he as good as dipo as a two way player imo. But Hayward bounced back and still put up a very respectable year for a fourth option who happened to be leap frogged during his return from that injury in Tatum/brown and the signing of Kemba. Hayward still brought them 18/7/4 on 50/38/85 shooting splits. That’s a hell of a player at fourth option. I mean the guy never once scored a full 20 a game so what more can they ask for??


Nice numbers and circumstances did affect his production. Could be wrong but thought PG transitioned to predominantly a jump shooter after his injury.

Concerned when a player who relies heavily on his athleticism has a major injury. More so than a player like Hayward?

What kind of numbers do you expect from Dipo if he played here? Love and Bosh took a major hit points wise. Is he going to want to show out in his contract year? Going from option 1 to 3 I believe is a hard transition.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:19 pm    Post subject:

Luminous8 wrote:
Dr. Laker wrote:
Luminous8 wrote:
Just saw something Windy reported that The Lakers see Danny Green, Kuz and a pick as too steep of an asking price for Victor Oladipo. Personally I take that deal every time and I expect he will have a bounce back year.


'Dipo is damaged goods.


The same could have been said about a guy like PG13 after returning from injury in Indy or Gordon Hayward. Both came back after having time to fully recoup and heal up. Pg13 went on to become an mvp candidate and Hayward went on to be a pretty damn top flight 6th man type.


If we were a lottery team, sure. But on a championship team, it would be stupid to trade 2 rotation players to gamble on someone like Oladipo. I would rather stand pat than do that trade.
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