OFFICIAL KYLE KUZMANIA THREAD (tupac impressed, p416)
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Sixth Man
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:50 am    Post subject:

Kjj10697X wrote:
To be honest I don’t understand the difference between ball pounding and dribbling the ball too long and drawing the defense to you. I see Kyrie Irving dribbling the ball too long, stalling the offense, and shooting it or passing at the last minute to get an assist. The whole media thinks he is one of he best PGs in the league. But when JC does it, he is ball pounding. I understand Kylie dribbles better than JC but from a concept standpoint what is the difference.

Can someone explain to me?


There's definitely inconsistency. Kyrie does over dribble at times, but he also has one of the best iso games in the league which warrants him leeway.

Dribbling really comes down to efficiency with the result. When players practice and go 1s, you want to give them a 3 dribble max, because 4 or more in 1s can lead to bad possession, help defense predicting you, etc.

To me, the main thing is decisiveness. JC has been good this year with understanding floor spacing and finding extra guy. His problem is that sometimes when going to the paint, he probes but then over dribbles cos nothing was there. It's just getting better at quicker reads when he gets closer to the hoop.

To me there are ball stoppers, people who catch and just dribble without moving the ball. There are people who over dribble meaning they do have good handles, but they are dribbling to low percentage shots. Then there are the few (kyrie, dame, etc) who give the offense a quality shot because they are so good at creating space. Of course those types of players are going to have a higher pct of tough shots and moments of selfishness than guys like Rondo.
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tox
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:48 pm    Post subject:

Kjj10697X wrote:
To be honest I don’t understand the difference between ball pounding and dribbling the ball too long and drawing the defense to you. I see Kyrie Irving dribbling the ball too long, stalling the offense, and shooting it or passing at the last minute to get an assist. The whole media thinks he is one of he best PGs in the league. But when JC does it, he is ball pounding. I understand Kylie dribbles better than JC but from a concept standpoint what is the difference.

Can someone explain to me?

Nothing really. Ball pounding aside, JC's been really good this year.
fwiw Kyrie did get ton of criticism for ball pounding, but it mostly receded after the 2016 Finals.
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Mr.81
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:59 pm    Post subject:

Solid game from Kuzma tonight despite the loss managed to grab a double double and play some solid d at times against a tough matchup.
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Megaton
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:08 pm    Post subject:

22/11 for Kuz Control
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bkim10
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:09 pm    Post subject:

Kuzma needs to stop hesitating and just shoot when he is open and work on not travelling. But he had a good game tonight overall.
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kevin61
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:11 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
kobe_4_mvp wrote:
yeah keep up with the klay comparisons as if hes ever shot below 40% in his career.


Yes, that one gets a nice chuckle


VLF, I haven't heard much out of you about Kuz's rebounding or defense as our starting PF, what's up with that?
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epak
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:25 pm    Post subject:

Get back to hitting the 3s and no TOs please.
You're on your way!
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J.C. Smith
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:27 pm    Post subject:

Kuzma played a nice game tonight. He's come down to earth on his three pointers, but he's still being effective.
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Halflife
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:28 pm    Post subject:

I love the trio of zo, bi, kuz. Long as hell
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lonzobryant
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:59 pm    Post subject:

Team high 42 minutes as well. I can't believe we found him so late in the first. Kuzma is amazing.
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MJST
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:04 pm    Post subject:

Solid game for him.

Don't like Luke playing him and Lonzo in the upper 30s to low 40s in minutes though.
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Day
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:09 pm    Post subject:

People seem to be confusing 'attacking the basket' and 'ball pounding'.

I think what people don't like about Randle and JC is that they get the ball, dribble for 10 seconds, and then attack the basket.

It's completely different with Kuz, when he gets the ball he almost always makes a decisive play. If he attacks the basket, usually, it's because there's an opening when he gets the ball. He usually doesn't try to FORCE an opening like Randle and JC do.
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MJST
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:16 pm    Post subject:

In reply to the last poat

Yea at times Kuzma has forced things plenty as well as taken I'll advised rushed threes or shots that made us think of a 6'9 JC.

The main reason however is he's a rookie and he's gonna have those kinds of ups and downs.

Yes he gets tunnel vision, yes he pounds the ball from time to time and yes he hogs the ball out of our offense from time to time and causes turnovers as a result.

He's done all those things and you can both root for him AND acknowledge those things without protecting him.

But he's done a HECK OF A LOT MORE GOOD THAN BAD.

Benefit is he's a rookie and there's a lot of time to fix it. He bounced back from the two bad games where he was ooc some of the time to playing very controlled and within the offense today.

That's what you expect of a rookie season and he's having a fantastic one. Thus far he's been a top 3 rookie in the NBA imo. First team al-rookie for sure and that's great for us to have that with such a late pick.
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Day
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:21 pm    Post subject:

^ I've never seen him get the ball early in the shotclock, hold on to the ball for 10+ seconds, and then force it.
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KeepItRealOrElse
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:51 pm    Post subject:

Kuz hasn't taken any ill-advised 3s this regular season, maybe just a couple like every player has. He's actually passed up way too many 3s.....
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epak
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:54 pm    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
Kuz hasn't taken any ill-advised 3s this regular season, maybe just a couple like every player has. He's actually passed up way too many 3s.....


The ones that kill me are the ones he passes up to get called for a travel. Murder I tell u.
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KeepItRealOrElse
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:06 am    Post subject:

epak wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
Kuz hasn't taken any ill-advised 3s this regular season, maybe just a couple like every player has. He's actually passed up way too many 3s.....


The ones that kill me are the ones he passes up to get called for a travel. Murder I tell u.


Yeup.. there have been a few of those too
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KeepItRealOrElse
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:26 am    Post subject:

His ISO moves and shot potential there, are really encouraging. He probably is more of a scorer than sharpshooter. He'll still be 35% in his prime or maybe next year, don't worry. Very few rookies shoot well from deep. And he's taken like 5 bail out or heaves. Probably realistically at 30% right now. But he's good for 1 a game, his jumper looks good. He'll be a solid 3pt shooter in his prime. So multifaceted , he won't need to be a 40% guy to have allstar impact
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governator
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:37 am    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
His ISO moves and shot potential there, are really encouraging. He probably is more of a scorer than sharpshooter. He'll still be 35% in his prime or maybe next year, don't worry. Very few rookies shoot well from deep. And he's taken like 5 bail out or heaves. Probably realistically at 30% right now. But he's good for 1 a game, his jumper looks good. He'll be a solid 3pt shooter in his prime. So multifaceted , he won't need to be a 40% guy to have allstar impact


pretty accurate. I'd complaint if he was a 3rd/4th yr player but for a rookie... he good
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Kjj10697X
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:44 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
His ISO moves and shot potential there, are really encouraging. He probably is more of a scorer than sharpshooter. He'll still be 35% in his prime or maybe next year, don't worry. Very few rookies shoot well from deep. And he's taken like 5 bail out or heaves. Probably realistically at 30% right now. But he's good for 1 a game, his jumper looks good. He'll be a solid 3pt shooter in his prime. So multifaceted , he won't need to be a 40% guy to have allstar impact


pretty accurate. I'd complaint if he was a 3rd/4th yr player but for a rookie... he good


Fans are givng him the pass this year because he is a rookie. Fans will start turning on him his second or third year. They will want him traded for a subway sandwich.

Reference: BI last year, JC his rookie year.

Seriously, he just needs to work on the traveling and charging calls. Otherwise he will be fine.
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lonzobryant
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:29 am    Post subject:

Kuzma is 4th on the team in mpg behind Zo, KCP, and BI yet he is 6th in usage rate and two players ahead of him... Clarkson and Randle. Doesn't make sense...especially when both are hovering around 20 mpg.
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governator
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:46 am    Post subject:

lonzobryant wrote:
Kuzma is 4th on the team in mpg behind Zo, KCP, and BI yet he is 6th in usage rate and two players ahead of him... Clarkson and Randle. Doesn't make sense...especially when both are hovering around 20 mpg.


kuzma is 3rd or 4th offensive option in the 1st unit
JC/Randle is 1st/2nd option in 2nd unit

this is coaching designed
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:50 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
lonzobryant wrote:
Kuzma is 4th on the team in mpg behind Zo, KCP, and BI yet he is 6th in usage rate and two players ahead of him... Clarkson and Randle. Doesn't make sense...especially when both are hovering around 20 mpg.


kuzma is 3rd or 4th offensive option in the 1st unit
JC/Randle is 1st/2nd option in 2nd unit

this is coaching designed


Yes, one has to understand the stat they are using.
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mhan00
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:57 am    Post subject:

Day wrote:
^ I've never seen him get the ball early in the shotclock, hold on to the ball for 10+ seconds, and then force it.
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lonzobryant
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:02 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
governator wrote:
lonzobryant wrote:
Kuzma is 4th on the team in mpg behind Zo, KCP, and BI yet he is 6th in usage rate and two players ahead of him... Clarkson and Randle. Doesn't make sense...especially when both are hovering around 20 mpg.


kuzma is 3rd or 4th offensive option in the 1st unit
JC/Randle is 1st/2nd option in 2nd unit

this is coaching designed


Yes, one has to understand the stat they are using.


I thought our offense was predicated on ball movement so it's not about or neither do we have 1st or 2nd option... it's about making the right basketball play like the Warriors do. Maybe I'm wrong.
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