OFFICIAL KYLE KUZ CONTROL KUZMA THREAD
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WVLAKERFAN1
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:30 am    Post subject:

Truck Turner wrote:
I'm surprised nobody has said anything him looking to score the majority of the time he touches the ball.

He looks to score just as much as Clarkson to be honest, he just doesn't pound the ball as much.


People have brought it up but they get drowned out by stans who are fine cussing Randle and clarkson but think kuzma is fine because he's a rookie. Even though him and Randle are the same age kuz has way more potential according to most of the forum.
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LakersNewEra
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:48 am    Post subject:

WVLAKERFAN1 wrote:
Truck Turner wrote:
I'm surprised nobody has said anything him looking to score the majority of the time he touches the ball.

He looks to score just as much as Clarkson to be honest, he just doesn't pound the ball as much.


People have brought it up but they get drowned out by stans who are fine cussing Randle and clarkson but think kuzma is fine because he's a rookie. Even though him and Randle are the same age kuz has way more potential according to most of the forum.


Kuzma is an intelligent player and he can definitely pass. He is not like Clarkson and Randle who can both be a bit of a blackhole at times. Kuzma is not like that.
He is a scorer though, through and through and he is good at it. Hes got the mentality to match which is a good thing.
I mean the guy is so polished, he's got it all. He should look to shoot and score because he is amazing at it and he can score in all ways imaginable.
Not exactly something you can say for Randle. Randle hurts the ball movement when he looks to score as he takes too much time to set himself up and he plays bully ball. In the case of Clarkson, same thing, he is a guard and takes too long to set himself up sometimes, breaks the flow of the offense.
Kuzma unlike those two does everything in the flow of the offense. He doesnt need long to set himself up, he's quick, concise and makes quick and good decisions. Also definitely not a ball stopper.

In honesty a bad comparison. Kuzma is not a ball stopper. Randle and Clarkson have a tendency to be.
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WVLAKERFAN1
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:40 am    Post subject:

LakersNewEra wrote:
WVLAKERFAN1 wrote:
Truck Turner wrote:
I'm surprised nobody has said anything him looking to score the majority of the time he touches the ball.

He looks to score just as much as Clarkson to be honest, he just doesn't pound the ball as much.


People have brought it up but they get drowned out by stans who are fine cussing Randle and clarkson but think kuzma is fine because he's a rookie. Even though him and Randle are the same age kuz has way more potential according to most of the forum.


Kuzma is an intelligent player and he can definitely pass. He is not like Clarkson and Randle who can both be a bit of a blackhole at times. Kuzma is not like that.
He is a scorer though, through and through and he is good at it. Hes got the mentality to match which is a good thing.
I mean the guy is so polished, he's got it all. He should look to shoot and score because he is amazing at it and he can score in all ways imaginable.
Not exactly something you can say for Randle. Randle hurts the ball movement when he looks to score as he takes too much time to set himself up and he plays bully ball. In the case of Clarkson, same thing, he is a guard and takes too long to set himself up sometimes, breaks the flow of the offense.
Kuzma unlike those two does everything in the flow of the offense. He doesnt need long to set himself up, he's quick, concise and makes quick and good decisions. Also definitely not a ball stopper.

In honesty a bad comparison. Kuzma is not a ball stopper. Randle and Clarkson have a tendency to be.

Kuz has an AST% of 7 while a USG% of 19
Randle has AST% of 14 while a USG% of 24.3
JC has AST%of 24.7% (second only to Ball) with USG% of 29.8.

Yes Randle and JC's usg% are higher but they have double to 3.5 times his assist%.
Also Randle and Kuz have the same FGA per 36 so what besides your opinion justifies that Kuz is less of a Chucker than Randle or Clarkson?
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The Juggernaut
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:31 pm    Post subject:

He seems to be a little hesitant/stiff when he gets the ball lately or he'll rush into a shot before reading the D. He needs to relax and just play loose like he was the previous 9 games.
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AllorNothing
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:35 pm    Post subject:

The Juggernaut wrote:
He seems to be a little hesitant/stiff when he gets the ball lately or he'll rush into a shot before reading the D. He needs to relax and just play loose like he was the previous 9 games.

The Entire team is hestitant because it looks like poor shooting is contagious.
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The Juggernaut
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:37 pm    Post subject:

AllorNothing wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
He seems to be a little hesitant/stiff when he gets the ball lately or he'll rush into a shot before reading the D. He needs to relax and just play loose like he was the previous 9 games.

The Entire team is hestitant because it looks like poor shooting is contagious.


It really is. We are atrocious shooting the ball and I don't know why nothing has been done to change this. Lakers have plenty of money, spend some of that cash to bring in some experts to help out in that regard. Shooting is too damn important in today's league.
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MJST
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:38 am    Post subject:

WVLAKERFAN1 wrote:
Truck Turner wrote:
I'm surprised nobody has said anything him looking to score the majority of the time he touches the ball.

He looks to score just as much as Clarkson to be honest, he just doesn't pound the ball as much.


People have brought it up but they get drowned out by stans who are fine cussing Randle and clarkson but think kuzma is fine because he's a rookie. Even though him and Randle are the same age kuz has way more potential according to most of the forum.


A narrative takes two games or so to be built and then is religiously stuck to.

Kuzma could pound the ball and tunnel vision more than Randle but you will never hear anyone utter "he seems to be a ME player before a team player." About him.


Because the narrative already is what it is among the majority.

It's not fair but it is what it is.

I will say Kuzma at times reminds me of a 6'9 Clarkson. That's why I said a happy medium for him is a 6"9 Clarkson that can hit threes.

But I am still interested in how many glad games it would take before people questioned whether he should be starting. Just in a general sense.
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tox
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:41 am    Post subject:

People like Kuzma because unlike Clarkson and Randle, he makes quick decisions and isn't a ball pounder. To their credit, both JC and JR are improved in this facet (more so Randle) but still. It makes a difference.
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MJST
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:55 am    Post subject:

Kuzma has had many ball pounding moments.

Thing is, in pre-season he was doing it within the offense and Luke called him out saying he is breaking the offense and trying to do too much while praising Ingram for doing the same thing.

NOW is actually the time Kuzma is doing it outside of the offense to the disadvantage if the team from time to time but Luke is radio silent.

I think it starts at the coaching staff having no clue how to actually foster and maximize talent and it's more the talent excelling in spite of them as opposed to because of them.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:33 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Kuzma has had many ball pounding moments.

Thing is, in pre-season he was doing it within the offense and Luke called him out saying he is breaking the offense and trying to do too much while praising Ingram for doing the same thing.

NOW is actually the time Kuzma is doing it outside of the offense to the disadvantage if the team from time to time but Luke is radio silent.

I think it starts at the coaching staff having no clue how to actually foster and maximize talent and it's more the talent excelling in spite of them as opposed to because of them.


I also question Luke's coaching. It seems he has only installed general principles of offense but hasn't designed play for players i.e. Kuzma, Ingram, Randle, JC to maximise their contribution
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Kjj10697X
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:17 am    Post subject:

To be honest I donít understand the difference between ball pounding and dribbling the ball too long and drawing the defense to you. I see Kyrie Irving dribbling the ball too long, stalling the offense, and shooting it or passing at the last minute to get an assist. The whole media thinks he is one of he best PGs in the league. But when JC does it, he is ball pounding. I understand Kylie dribbles better than JC but from a concept standpoint what is the difference.

Can someone explain to me?
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:15 am    Post subject:

kobe_4_mvp wrote:
yeah keep up with the klay comparisons as if hes ever shot below 40% in his career.


Yes, that one gets a nice chuckle
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The Juggernaut
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:45 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Kuzma has had many ball pounding moments.

Thing is, in pre-season he was doing it within the offense and Luke called him out saying he is breaking the offense and trying to do too much while praising Ingram for doing the same thing.

NOW is actually the time Kuzma is doing it outside of the offense to the disadvantage if the team from time to time but Luke is radio silent.

I think it starts at the coaching staff having no clue how to actually foster and maximize talent and it's more the talent excelling in spite of them as opposed to because of them.


Stop trying to make stuff up to detract from Kuz so that Randle can look better. Kuz hasn't pounded the ball nor does he go outside of the offense much. His job out there is to be a scorer. He takes those opportunities.

The last couple games he's missed some easy ones that he usually makes. That doesn't mean he's being a ball hog.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:50 am    Post subject:

Kjj10697X wrote:
To be honest I donít understand the difference between ball pounding and dribbling the ball too long and drawing the defense to you. I see Kyrie Irving dribbling the ball too long, stalling the offense, and shooting it or passing at the last minute to get an assist. The whole media thinks he is one of he best PGs in the league. But when JC does it, he is ball pounding. I understand Kylie dribbles better than JC but from a concept standpoint what is the difference.

Can someone explain to me?


There's definitely inconsistency. Kyrie does over dribble at times, but he also has one of the best iso games in the league which warrants him leeway.

Dribbling really comes down to efficiency with the result. When players practice and go 1s, you want to give them a 3 dribble max, because 4 or more in 1s can lead to bad possession, help defense predicting you, etc.

To me, the main thing is decisiveness. JC has been good this year with understanding floor spacing and finding extra guy. His problem is that sometimes when going to the paint, he probes but then over dribbles cos nothing was there. It's just getting better at quicker reads when he gets closer to the hoop.

To me there are ball stoppers, people who catch and just dribble without moving the ball. There are people who over dribble meaning they do have good handles, but they are dribbling to low percentage shots. Then there are the few (kyrie, dame, etc) who give the offense a quality shot because they are so good at creating space. Of course those types of players are going to have a higher pct of tough shots and moments of selfishness than guys like Rondo.
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tox
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:48 pm    Post subject:

Kjj10697X wrote:
To be honest I donít understand the difference between ball pounding and dribbling the ball too long and drawing the defense to you. I see Kyrie Irving dribbling the ball too long, stalling the offense, and shooting it or passing at the last minute to get an assist. The whole media thinks he is one of he best PGs in the league. But when JC does it, he is ball pounding. I understand Kylie dribbles better than JC but from a concept standpoint what is the difference.

Can someone explain to me?

Nothing really. Ball pounding aside, JC's been really good this year.
fwiw Kyrie did get ton of criticism for ball pounding, but it mostly receded after the 2016 Finals.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:59 pm    Post subject:

Solid game from Kuzma tonight despite the loss managed to grab a double double and play some solid d at times against a tough matchup.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:08 pm    Post subject:

22/11 for Kuz Control
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:09 pm    Post subject:

Kuzma needs to stop hesitating and just shoot when he is open and work on not travelling. But he had a good game tonight overall.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:11 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
kobe_4_mvp wrote:
yeah keep up with the klay comparisons as if hes ever shot below 40% in his career.


Yes, that one gets a nice chuckle


VLF, I haven't heard much out of you about Kuz's rebounding or defense as our starting PF, what's up with that?
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:25 pm    Post subject:

Get back to hitting the 3s and no TOs please.
You're on your way!
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J.C. Smith
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:27 pm    Post subject:

Kuzma played a nice game tonight. He's come down to earth on his three pointers, but he's still being effective.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:28 pm    Post subject:

I love the trio of zo, bi, kuz. Long as hell
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lonzobryant
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:59 pm    Post subject:

Team high 42 minutes as well. I can't believe we found him so late in the first. Kuzma is amazing.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:04 pm    Post subject:

Solid game for him.

Don't like Luke playing him and Lonzo in the upper 30s to low 40s in minutes though.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:09 pm    Post subject:

People seem to be confusing 'attacking the basket' and 'ball pounding'.

I think what people don't like about Randle and JC is that they get the ball, dribble for 10 seconds, and then attack the basket.

It's completely different with Kuz, when he gets the ball he almost always makes a decisive play. If he attacks the basket, usually, it's because there's an opening when he gets the ball. He usually doesn't try to FORCE an opening like Randle and JC do.
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