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Baron Von Humongous Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015 Posts: 32979
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:10 am Post subject: |
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socalsp3 wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | trablos wrote: | Don't want to blow up the thread..but it is fair to say that Kuz is just as talented at this point as rookie year Kobe? |
No. |
Depends what you mean in "talented", upside? or current production? Kuz has better stats than 2nd yr kobe. Kobe had more eye popping plays. Kuz is Mr Efficient. |
I would think it means upside, and age should be taken into account when talking about production. Kobe at age 22-23 was a top-5 NBA player averaging 28/5.5/5.5 - he was always more talented than Kuzma, and we can compare a rookie Kobe going up against NBA talent to Kuzma as a frosh at Utah going up against Pac-12 talent to confirm that.
I also think young guys like Lonzo and Tatum and DSJ are more talented than Kuz, but there's no guarantee they develop into better players over time. But Kuz is a late bloomer with All-Star upside picked at #27 - I'm ecstatic already without the Kobe comparisons (talent-wise, not stylistically). |
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NBALakerLegends Star Player
Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 1026
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:55 am Post subject: |
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Baron Von Humongous wrote: | socalsp3 wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | trablos wrote: | Don't want to blow up the thread..but it is fair to say that Kuz is just as talented at this point as rookie year Kobe? |
No. |
Depends what you mean in "talented", upside? or current production? Kuz has better stats than 2nd yr kobe. Kobe had more eye popping plays. Kuz is Mr Efficient. |
I would think it means upside, and age should be taken into account when talking about production. Kobe at age 22-23 was a top-5 NBA player averaging 28/5.5/5.5 - he was always more talented than Kuzma, and we can compare a rookie Kobe going up against NBA talent to Kuzma as a frosh at Utah going up against Pac-12 talent to confirm that.
I also think young guys like Lonzo and Tatum and DSJ are more talented than Kuz, but there's no guarantee they develop into better players over time. But Kuz is a late bloomer with All-Star upside picked at #27 - I'm ecstatic already without the Kobe comparisons (talent-wise, not stylistically). |
DSJ and Lonzo I can agree on. Tatum is younger but I wouldn’t call him more talented than Kuzma. He’s not more athletic than Kuz and many of his skills are below Kuzma’s level. Tatum is definitely benefiting a lot from playing with a much more well rounded team. He’s their fourth option on offense. Kuz is our 1st or 2nd. |
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AllorNothing Franchise Player
Joined: 08 Oct 2001 Posts: 18448
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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If Kuz can get to the level of Klay or PG , I would be thrilled. |
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defense Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jan 2010 Posts: 39317
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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I see a lot of compliments about Kuzma's footwork. Am I the only one that thinks his footwork needs improvement? He travels like 4 times a game. He needs to slow himself down just a tad and get those feet under him. |
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Baron Von Humongous Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015 Posts: 32979
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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NBALakerLegends wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | socalsp3 wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | trablos wrote: | Don't want to blow up the thread..but it is fair to say that Kuz is just as talented at this point as rookie year Kobe? |
No. |
Depends what you mean in "talented", upside? or current production? Kuz has better stats than 2nd yr kobe. Kobe had more eye popping plays. Kuz is Mr Efficient. |
I would think it means upside, and age should be taken into account when talking about production. Kobe at age 22-23 was a top-5 NBA player averaging 28/5.5/5.5 - he was always more talented than Kuzma, and we can compare a rookie Kobe going up against NBA talent to Kuzma as a frosh at Utah going up against Pac-12 talent to confirm that.
I also think young guys like Lonzo and Tatum and DSJ are more talented than Kuz, but there's no guarantee they develop into better players over time. But Kuz is a late bloomer with All-Star upside picked at #27 - I'm ecstatic already without the Kobe comparisons (talent-wise, not stylistically). |
DSJ and Lonzo I can agree on. Tatum is younger but I wouldn’t call him more talented than Kuzma. He’s not more athletic than Kuz and many of his skills are below Kuzma’s level. Tatum is definitely benefiting a lot from playing with a much more well rounded team. He’s their fourth option on offense. Kuz is our 1st or 2nd. |
Tatum has more two-way upside, imo, which gives him a slightly higher ceiling. |
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greenfrog Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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The Juggernaut wrote: | trablos wrote: | Don't want to blow up the thread..but it is fair to say that Kuz is just as talented at this point as rookie year Kobe? |
No. Rookie Kobe was still more talented than 22 year old rookie Kuzma. I do see a lot of similarities in their games though, especially the footwork.
Kuz is going to be special. Hopefully Waltons doesn't continue to stunt this kids growth by pulling him out when he's hot. |
This Walton hate and false victimization thing is really getting bizarre. He's averaging 32 minutes...
And he's not "hot" either. He's good. Him shooting well isn't some once in a blue moon occurrence that needs to be instantly milked before it's a fading memory. He'll be hot again in another 5 minutes. |
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LakersMD Star Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2003 Posts: 8014
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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defense wrote: | I see a lot of compliments about Kuzma's footwork. Am I the only one that thinks his footwork needs improvement? He travels like 4 times a game. He needs to slow himself down just a tad and get those feet under him. |
He walks a lot off of shot fakes but he’ll learn to fix that. |
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The Juggernaut Star Player
Joined: 24 Aug 2017 Posts: 4572
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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greenfrog wrote: | The Juggernaut wrote: | trablos wrote: | Don't want to blow up the thread..but it is fair to say that Kuz is just as talented at this point as rookie year Kobe? |
No. Rookie Kobe was still more talented than 22 year old rookie Kuzma. I do see a lot of similarities in their games though, especially the footwork.
Kuz is going to be special. Hopefully Waltons doesn't continue to stunt this kids growth by pulling him out when he's hot. |
This Walton hate and false victimization thing is really getting bizarre. He's averaging 32 minutes...
And he's not "hot" either. He's good. Him shooting well isn't some once in a blue moon occurrence that needs to be instantly milked before it's a fading memory. He'll be hot again in another 5 minutes. |
Stop being a blind Walton defender. Most of this forum agrees that his rotations have been abysmal and have cost us some games this year. Last night he took out a hot Kuz with 6 min left in the 1st and the Bulls went a big run. |
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The Juggernaut Star Player
Joined: 24 Aug 2017 Posts: 4572
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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LakersMD wrote: | defense wrote: | I see a lot of compliments about Kuzma's footwork. Am I the only one that thinks his footwork needs improvement? He travels like 4 times a game. He needs to slow himself down just a tad and get those feet under him. |
He walks a lot off of shot fakes but he’ll learn to fix that. |
Yeah, his traveling calls have come mostly from shuffling his feet off the pump fake on closeouts. He needs to just slow himself down a bit and put the ball on the floor first |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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Annihilator wrote: | justsomelakerfan wrote: | Friends he is now shooting 36% from 3 for the season now | |
Good job of adjusting to the NBA game _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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trablos wrote: | Don't want to blow up the thread..but it is fair to say that Kuz is just as talented at this point as rookie year Kobe? |
A 22 year old better than a 17 year old? Even with the age difference I would say no. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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NBALakerLegends wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | socalsp3 wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | trablos wrote: | Don't want to blow up the thread..but it is fair to say that Kuz is just as talented at this point as rookie year Kobe? |
No. |
Depends what you mean in "talented", upside? or current production? Kuz has better stats than 2nd yr kobe. Kobe had more eye popping plays. Kuz is Mr Efficient. |
I would think it means upside, and age should be taken into account when talking about production. Kobe at age 22-23 was a top-5 NBA player averaging 28/5.5/5.5 - he was always more talented than Kuzma, and we can compare a rookie Kobe going up against NBA talent to Kuzma as a frosh at Utah going up against Pac-12 talent to confirm that.
I also think young guys like Lonzo and Tatum and DSJ are more talented than Kuz, but there's no guarantee they develop into better players over time. But Kuz is a late bloomer with All-Star upside picked at #27 - I'm ecstatic already without the Kobe comparisons (talent-wise, not stylistically). |
DSJ and Lonzo I can agree on. Tatum is younger but I wouldn’t call him more talented than Kuzma. He’s not more athletic than Kuz and many of his skills are below Kuzma’s level. Tatum is definitely benefiting a lot from playing with a much more well rounded team. He’s their fourth option on offense. Kuz is our 1st or 2nd. |
I would trade him for Tatum in a heartbeat _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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LakerSanity Moderator
Joined: 30 Nov 2006 Posts: 33474 Location: Long Beach, California
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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Baron Von Humongous wrote: | trablos wrote: | Don't want to blow up the thread..but it is fair to say that Kuz is just as talented at this point as rookie year Kobe? |
No. |
Kuzma (Age 22 per 36 Min.): 19.1 PPG (59% TS%), 5.7 RPG, 1.8 APG, 0.4 SPG, 0.1 BPG, 15.8 PER
Bryant (Age 22 per 36 Min.): 25.1 PPG (55% TS%), 5.2 RPG, 4.4 APG, 1.5 SPG, 0.6 BPG, 24.5 PER
Not really comparable at all, especially given that Kobe played next to Shaq (who took scoring opportunities away from him) and that, by this time, Kobe was already a top defender (he had already made 1st team All-NBA defense at 21, and was 2nd team at age 22... making no mention of being All-NBA first team at 21 and also All-NBA 2nd team at age 22). Kobe also received MVP votes for 13 consecutive years beginning at age 21.
When you have a Kobe or Lebron (a potential all-time top 10 player), you know you have one before age 22. _________________ LakersGround's Terms of Service
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SocalDevin Star Player
Joined: 26 May 2016 Posts: 7825 Location: Long Beach
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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Joe Pesci wrote: | SocalDevin wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | SocalDevin wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | SocalDevin wrote: | The Juggernaut wrote: | TonySoprano17 wrote: | SocalDevin wrote: | He was clearly taken out early so he could run with the second unit... If anything that say's that Luke feels like he needs to be out there to help the second unit stay competitive.
Not sure why you guys aren't seeing that. He wanted a quality player out there with the second unit. It's really that simple.. Nothing more to read into it. |
because its not common in the nba to take out a guy who starts red hot for a rotation plan that you made before the game started |
EXACTLY! |
I actually don't think there was anything unusual about his start. I wouldn't even agree that he was hot, he was just doing what he does.. |
He shoots 100% from the field?
He was 4-4 from the field for 10 points in the first 6 mins of the game, had just hit his second three in as many tries, and was benched.
He was pacing for 80 pts. That sort of defines red hot. |
Of course he doesn't shoot 100% from the field.. Let's not be silly.
Kuz is what he is.. whether he comes off the bench, starts, or get's subbed out early. None of that effects his game.
Not getting opportunities playing next to Clarkson is what contributed to his scoring taking a dip. |
Well then it wasn't Kuzma doing what he does unless he always starts out 4-4. He doesn't. So then I would think the gameplan should change. If he's playing bad or so so, stick to the script. If he's hot, adjust.
It would make more sense to me if he was pulled for missing a defensive assignment like Stu/Mac said then just to pull him for the sake of sticking to a pre game plan |
Yea.. we just don't agree. and that's cool. =) |
You’re not agreeing because you’re not really listening.
Ring is spelling it out for you quite clearly.
Let me ask, if this were game seven of The Finals, would you have been cool taking him out?
I don’t think you would. Why? Because you’d be all about the win.
Like ring said, Walton chose to stick to his plan instead of riding an extremely hot hand in Kuzma, who, based on track record, could’ve conceivably hit his next four shots and busts the game wide open.
Ring is trying to teach you that it’s okay to modify your game plan on the fly based on circumstances. Walton didn’t do that. He instead chose myopically stick to his preconceived plan, and the consequences of that action were quite tangible. |
Don't be stupid.. I'm not listening because I don't agree?? He's trying to teach me something?? Try not to be so presumptuous. He already made the points you made, so have others, there was nothing nuanced or earth shattering about your position that would make it difficult to understand. It's pretty clear. I don't agree for reasons already stated. I'm not going to agree, nor do I expect to change his or your mind. I'm okay with that, we don't have to agree. I communicated my position, he expressed his and we left it at that. Your cosign added nothing new. |
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SocalDevin Star Player
Joined: 26 May 2016 Posts: 7825 Location: Long Beach
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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LakerSanity wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | trablos wrote: | Don't want to blow up the thread..but it is fair to say that Kuz is just as talented at this point as rookie year Kobe? |
No. |
Kuzma (Age 22 per 36 Min.): 19.1 PPG (59% TS%), 5.7 RPG, 1.8 APG, 0.4 SPG, 0.1 BPG, 15.8 PER
Bryant (Age 22 per 36 Min.): 25.1 PPG (55% TS%), 5.2 RPG, 4.4 APG, 1.5 SPG, 0.6 BPG, 24.5 PER
Not really comparable at all, especially given that Kobe played next to Shaq (who took scoring opportunities away from him) and that, by this time, Kobe was already a top defender (he had already made 1st team All-NBA defense at 21, and was 2nd team at age 22... making no mention of being All-NBA first team at 21 and also All-NBA 2nd team at age 22). Kobe also received MVP votes for 13 consecutive years beginning at age 21.
When you have a Kobe or Lebron (a potential all-time top 10 player), you know you have one before age 22. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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LakerSanity wrote: |
When you have a Kobe or Lebron (a potential all-time top 10 player), you know you have one before age 22. |
I made that point earlier, those types of players don’t go 27th in the draft after 4 years in college. Not a knock on Kuzma, most NBA players can’t be compared to Kobe. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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SocalDevin wrote: | LakerSanity wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | trablos wrote: | Don't want to blow up the thread..but it is fair to say that Kuz is just as talented at this point as rookie year Kobe? |
No. |
Kuzma (Age 22 per 36 Min.): 19.1 PPG (59% TS%), 5.7 RPG, 1.8 APG, 0.4 SPG, 0.1 BPG, 15.8 PER
Bryant (Age 22 per 36 Min.): 25.1 PPG (55% TS%), 5.2 RPG, 4.4 APG, 1.5 SPG, 0.6 BPG, 24.5 PER
Not really comparable at all, especially given that Kobe played next to Shaq (who took scoring opportunities away from him) and that, by this time, Kobe was already a top defender (he had already made 1st team All-NBA defense at 21, and was 2nd team at age 22... making no mention of being All-NBA first team at 21 and also All-NBA 2nd team at age 22). Kobe also received MVP votes for 13 consecutive years beginning at age 21.
When you have a Kobe or Lebron (a potential all-time top 10 player), you know you have one before age 22. |
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h2omike Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 2811
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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Kuzma not being Kobe, is no knock on the rookie, Kobe is a top 5 all time great talent. But former Laker greats at the SF... Wilkes or Glen Rice, I think those may become comparable for a shooting 6’ 8” forward from Laker history. Give the kid a couple of years, but he is already exceeding expectations. He went from Who? to “ it’s just summer league” to now the Lakers best player. |
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KeepItRealOrElse Retired Number
Joined: 11 Oct 2012 Posts: 32767
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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h2omike wrote: | Kuzma not being Kobe, is no knock on the rookie, Kobe is a top 5 all time great talent. But former Laker greats at the SF... Wilkes or Glen Rice, I think those may become comparable for a shooting 6’ 8” forward from Laker history. Give the kid a couple of years, but he is already exceeding expectations. He went from Who? to “ it’s just summer league” to now the Lakers best player. |
Yea Glen Rice was Darius' comp from Laker Film Room. God i love Kuz, so skilled for, 6'9! |
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tox Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015 Posts: 17834
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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LakerSanity wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | trablos wrote: | Don't want to blow up the thread..but it is fair to say that Kuz is just as talented at this point as rookie year Kobe? |
No. |
Kuzma (Age 22 per 36 Min.): 19.1 PPG (59% TS%), 5.7 RPG, 1.8 APG, 0.4 SPG, 0.1 BPG, 15.8 PER
Bryant (Age 22 per 36 Min.): 25.1 PPG (55% TS%), 5.2 RPG, 4.4 APG, 1.5 SPG, 0.6 BPG, 24.5 PER
Not really comparable at all, especially given that Kobe played next to Shaq (who took scoring opportunities away from him) and that, by this time, Kobe was already a top defender (he had already made 1st team All-NBA defense at 21, and was 2nd team at age 22... making no mention of being All-NBA first team at 21 and also All-NBA 2nd team at age 22). Kobe also received MVP votes for 13 consecutive years beginning at age 21.
When you have a Kobe or Lebron (a potential all-time top 10 player), you know you have one before age 22. |
Kuz, get those block/steal numbers up! |
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socalsp3 Star Player
Joined: 07 Jul 2016 Posts: 3501
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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epak wrote: | SocalDevin wrote: | LakerSanity wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | trablos wrote: | Don't want to blow up the thread..but it is fair to say that Kuz is just as talented at this point as rookie year Kobe? |
No. |
Kuzma (Age 22 per 36 Min.): 19.1 PPG (59% TS%), 5.7 RPG, 1.8 APG, 0.4 SPG, 0.1 BPG, 15.8 PER
Bryant (Age 22 per 36 Min.): 25.1 PPG (55% TS%), 5.2 RPG, 4.4 APG, 1.5 SPG, 0.6 BPG, 24.5 PER
Not really comparable at all, especially given that Kobe played next to Shaq (who took scoring opportunities away from him) and that, by this time, Kobe was already a top defender (he had already made 1st team All-NBA defense at 21, and was 2nd team at age 22... making no mention of being All-NBA first team at 21 and also All-NBA 2nd team at age 22). Kobe also received MVP votes for 13 consecutive years beginning at age 21.
When you have a Kobe or Lebron (a potential all-time top 10 player), you know you have one before age 22. |
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Kobe was a 4 yr vet at 22. Kuz is in his rookie year. I would compare Kuz to Kobe's 2nd or 1st yr. |
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3baller Starting Rotation
Joined: 28 Oct 2017 Posts: 992
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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LakerSanity wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | trablos wrote: | Don't want to blow up the thread..but it is fair to say that Kuz is just as talented at this point as rookie year Kobe? |
No. |
Kuzma (Age 22 per 36 Min.): 19.1 PPG (59% TS%), 5.7 RPG, 1.8 APG, 0.4 SPG, 0.1 BPG, 15.8 PER
Bryant (Age 22 per 36 Min.): 25.1 PPG (55% TS%), 5.2 RPG, 4.4 APG, 1.5 SPG, 0.6 BPG, 24.5 PER
Not really comparable at all, especially given that Kobe played next to Shaq (who took scoring opportunities away from him) and that, by this time, Kobe was already a top defender (he had already made 1st team All-NBA defense at 21, and was 2nd team at age 22... making no mention of being All-NBA first team at 21 and also All-NBA 2nd team at age 22). Kobe also received MVP votes for 13 consecutive years beginning at age 21.
When you have a Kobe or Lebron (a potential all-time top 10 player), you know you have one before age 22. |
Kuz rebounds per 36 is 7.5, not 5.7. Thought that didn't look right so I checked.
Kuz won't be a Kobe or Lebron, top 10 all time great when all's said and done. But you have to also remember that those guys have been receiving 3-4 years of NBA nutrition and training by the time they hit 22. Now's not a good time to make comparisons. Maybe 24-25 would be a better age to compare Kuz with past stars. What's encouraging with Kuz though is his improvement year after year which tells us he has good work ethic and with it, he has a good chance to reach his true potential. |
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LakersNewEra Star Player
Joined: 16 Apr 2014 Posts: 1526 Location: Vancouver BC
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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Prediction for tonights game?
I say 26 points, 9 rebounds. |
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PHILosophize Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Nov 2012 Posts: 10758
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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25 points 7 boards _________________ one dog goes that way the other dog goes the other way |
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pio2u Retired Number
Joined: 26 Dec 2012 Posts: 54519
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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Special K going for THUDDY!! |
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