OFFICIAL KYLE KUZMANIA THREAD (tupac impressed, p416)
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manlisten
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:07 am    Post subject:

PlantedTanks wrote:
manlisten wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
Lonzo-Lite wrote:
Fracture wrote:
Playing center is killing his game. He's not built for that. Stop it Luke.


Sorry to be the bearer, but based on Luke’s post game comments tonight, it doesn’t look like the Kuz at center experiment isn’t quite over yet.


By having Kuz play center Luke can afford him more playing time. If the starters are LBJ and BI then the remaining bench minutes at PF and SF need to be split between Kuz, Beas, Lance and possibly Hart. Tough position for Luke and I prefer Kuz over Beas as small ball C.

2 pre-season games. Not sure what anyone's expectations were. Yes there will be growing pains but I prefer Kuz be allotted more minutes than less even if he needs to play C.


Beas and Lance don't need to be in the rotation.


They may not need to be but they most likely will be.


I'm not so sure. It wouldn't really be wise to prioritize one year guys over Kuz who should be a core piece for years to come. Kuz would barely get 20 minutes if both those guys are in the rotation.
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MJST
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:12 am    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
MJST wrote:
Kuzma should never play the 5 again.


He should be fine against small 5s. Jokic is massive and has post skills. Basically Kuz should never matchup vs starting 5s, yea.


If you want to play a 'small ball 5' then LeBron is the better choice, and even Beasley has looked better at the 5 than Kuzma.

This is one of the things they shouldn't be forcing.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:40 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
MJST wrote:
Kuzma should never play the 5 again.


He should be fine against small 5s. Jokic is massive and has post skills. Basically Kuz should never matchup vs starting 5s, yea.


If you want to play a 'small ball 5' then LeBron is the better choice, and even Beasley has looked better at the 5 than Kuzma.

This is one of the things they shouldn't be forcing.

I agree Beasley makes more sense until they find a decent backup Put Kuzma where he excels at the 3 or 4
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:29 am    Post subject:

Lakesh0wtime wrote:
still think we'll need to end up choosing between he and BI


Yep. Starting to look like that.
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lonzobryant
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:46 am    Post subject:

NotHype wrote:
Lakesh0wtime wrote:
still think we'll need to end up choosing between he and BI


Yep. Starting to look like that.


Yeah, I think Kuz is a 3/4 and we got Ingram and Bron starting. With two playmakers in the starting lineup I'm not sure why Luke doesn't give Kuz a start to see how it goes.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:05 am    Post subject:

lonzobryant wrote:
NotHype wrote:
Lakesh0wtime wrote:
still think we'll need to end up choosing between he and BI


Yep. Starting to look like that.


Yeah, I think Kuz is a 3/4 and we got Ingram and Bron starting. With two playmakers in the starting lineup I'm not sure why Luke doesn't give Kuz a start to see how it goes.


Cause Ingram is the better player, is younger with more potential, has more two way potential and much more valuable to our franchise future overall.

The only place this is a discussion is on message boards, the coaching staff and FO have shown absolutely NOTHING to think they'd even consider Kuzma over Ingram.

And for a good reason.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:21 am    Post subject:

I hope we do not see the Kuz at 5 experiment in real NBA games.

I thought he would get most of his minutes at backup PF and a few at SF.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:38 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
I hope we do not see the Kuz at 5 experiment in real NBA games.

I thought he would get most of his minutes at backup PF and a few at SF.
Totally agree
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lonzobryant
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:39 am    Post subject:

1ngr4m wrote:
lonzobryant wrote:
NotHype wrote:
Lakesh0wtime wrote:
still think we'll need to end up choosing between he and BI


Yep. Starting to look like that.


Yeah, I think Kuz is a 3/4 and we got Ingram and Bron starting. With two playmakers in the starting lineup I'm not sure why Luke doesn't give Kuz a start to see how it goes.


Cause Ingram is the better player, is younger with more potential, has more two way potential and much more valuable to our franchise future overall.

The only place this is a discussion is on message boards, the coaching staff and FO have shown absolutely NOTHING to think they'd even consider Kuzma over Ingram.

And for a good reason.


Better player? I think that can be argued and it's yet to be determined. For now I think Kuz is a better scorer than Ingram and we with Rondo/Zo and LeBron starting...a secondary scorer would be nice. Ingram's playmaking ability in the 2nd unit would work well too. It doesn't matter to me, it's just what fit and sticks better.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:18 am    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
2019 wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
2019 wrote:
Fracture wrote:
Playing center is killing his game. He's not built for that. Stop it Luke.


What are Luke's better options here?

I mean, I agree with you but it's not like he's got a plethora of options and he's being stubborn. Zubac has been terrible. Moe isn't ready and even when he does he's only a rookie. That leaves Beasley, LeBron, and Kuzma. Seems like LeBron is going to be the PF with maybe a few mins at C against certain teams.

So, who should Luke turn to? Magic and Rob need to find a way to get another guy like McGee.

Beasley money should have gone to someone like Ed Davis or Brook Lopez. But here we are and Luke is trying to find a way to get Kuz mins.


This is bad rationale. Experimenting with a second year player who had a successful rookie year can mess up his game.


I did say I agree that Kuz should not be playing the 5... given the choice, I'd say never ever at but as others pointed out, where else to do we find mins for him as our current rotations are more or less defined? Hell, that's probably not even the hardest part.

Trading him would be foolish IMO. Just need to get a good back up C. Maybe the waiver wire is kind to us and we end up with Tyson or whomever. Maybe there is a KCP deal for a big down the road, but even if you don't give Kuz the mins, who are you going to give them too? Zu? LeBron?

I mean, the one option that maybe we should talk about to get Kuz and BI adequate mins, is to run this: McGee/Kuzma/LeBron/BI/Lonzo with Rondo/Hart/KCP/Lance/Beasley off the bench but we still have the same size issue (and more of it).

So that leads back to my question: not only where does Kuz find his mins but even if we find him some, who is playing C that is a better option and Luke is trying out during pre-season.

Like I said (thing in another thread), our FO's biggest blunder was not getting another big who could meaningful mins the style we want to play. Lopez was there for us. Ed Davis, while signing on day 1, took a one year deal.

But Luke, again, doesn't have any much better options so right now it's trial and error and matching up against Jokic is probably not a great barometer of potential success in that role-- he's one big boy who knows how to use his size and skill.


Yeah, something doesn't add up.

1) Problem: Not enough minutes for Kuzma at the forward spots (because of LeBron and Ingram)

2) Possible solution: Play him at center

3) Problem: He shouldn't be playing center, we should have signed a real center like Brook Lopez

4) Possible solution: trade him while his value is still high?

5) Problem: It'd be foolish to trade him.

6) Possible solution: ok, play him at center then.

7) Problem: seems like we have no other choice, but I still don't like it... Maybe we can pick up a center on waivers... , but then, we still have the issue of not having any minutes for him at the forward spot. But, we also can't trade him.... Seems like there's no solution

8) Possible solution: well, I guess he won't be THAT bad at center. As long as its not BIG centers... and, he can always score. Actually, now that I've convinced myself, I think it's a good move. Problem solved!


It's like going in circles just to come back to the same spot.


So your solution is to trade the guy with the best rookie season we've had in 30+ years? A guy, that by all account, put in a monstrous offseason of work to improve?

Are you even prosing a solution?

The problem - solution chart you put together is nice but you're also ignoring what I said, that finding mins for him is not the toughest thing to do if Luke is willing to get experimental and but BI at the 2. Which is why I proposed moving KCP after he is eligible- though that will hinge on his approval. Or maybe you trade Lance/Beasley for more of a big.

If you get a center off waivers- let's assume Chandler- here is a potential min breakdown:

McGee (20) | Chandler (20) | Beasley (8)
Kuzma (32) | LeBron (16)
LeBron (16) | Ingram (24) | Lance (8)
Ingram (10) | Hart (28) | Svi or Lance or Lonzo (10)
Lonzo (28) | Rondo (20)


Now this assumes we can sign a guy off waivers and that we can also find a deal for deal for KCP but if you shift everyone down a spot (versus up), it's easy to find time for all the guys we should be finding time for. This implies signing that bench big.

I just see no reason to even consider trading Kuzma. They should go find a big and play with BI at the 2.

Until then, yes we're at the same spot.
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AFireInside619
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:37 am    Post subject:

Kuzma hasn’t looked great at center, but he did play against Jokic, who’s possibly the best center in the league. Yes, it’s scary that we don’t have a true back up for McGee right now, but let’s give Kuz a chance verse the average centers of the league.

Let’s also give the front office the chance to acquire whomever they are waiting to pick up of waivers. Let’s just hope it’s not Noah, even though he’d fit right in with our band of merry misfits.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:39 am    Post subject:

Laker coaching logic...

Take an already bad defender and put him in a position where he is over matched and expect him to not fail.

The center thing is dumb imo, but maybe they prove me wrong

I think Lebron should be guarding the best big


Last edited by defense on Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:40 am; edited 1 time in total
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:40 am    Post subject:

defense wrote:
Laker coaching logic...

Take an already bad defender and put him in a position where he is over matched and expect him to not fail.

The center thing is dumb imo, but maybe they prove me wrong

"Hey, Draymond is an undersized center, so anybody can..."
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manlisten
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:59 am    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:
Kuzma hasn’t looked great at center, but he did play against Jokic, who’s possibly the best center in the league. Yes, it’s scary that we don’t have a true back up for McGee right now, but let’s give Kuz a chance verse the average centers of the league.



I keep asking this question but who are these anonymous centers that Kuz will matchup better with? I don't think there's even 3 in the league, if that.
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Last edited by manlisten on Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:08 am    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:
MJST wrote:
Kuzma should never play the 5 again.


He didn’t look good, but let’s give it a chance. He played against possibly the best center in the league. He may be able to hold his own vs a lesser center. The position has changed so much the last couple of years.


He can’t hold his own defensively against PFs, why think he can against centers? Last season he defended SFs successfully.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:22 am    Post subject:

You guys are funny. Kuzma is the ideal Center in todays NBA. We have played 2 games only and our best players are not playing heavy minutes. Once he gets his legs under him Cs wont be able to guard him.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:59 am    Post subject:

watchME wrote:
You guys are funny. Kuzma is the ideal Center in todays NBA. We have played 2 games only and our best players are not playing heavy minutes. Once he gets his legs under him Cs wont be able to guard him.


He hasn't been aggressive enough to punish teams for putting a big on him. I'm not really sure if he's bought into this experiment yet.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:11 am    Post subject:

watchME wrote:
You guys are funny. Kuzma is the ideal Center in todays NBA. We have played 2 games only and our best players are not playing heavy minutes. Once he gets his legs under him Cs wont be able to guard him.


"No he's not" - Stu Lantz
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:03 am    Post subject:

Well, now you're just contradicting yourself.

First you started off by saying:

2019 wrote:
But here we are and Luke is trying to find a way to get Kuz mins.


But now, you've found 32 minutes for him at power forward and in the starting lineup:

2019 wrote:
If you get a center off waivers- let's assume Chandler- here is a potential min breakdown:

McGee (20) | Chandler (20) | Beasley (8)
Kuzma (32) | LeBron (16)
LeBron (16) | Ingram (24) | Lance (8)
Ingram (10) | Hart (28) | Svi or Lance or Lonzo (10)
Lonzo (28) | Rondo (20)


Yeah, if this is a possible solution, then there really is no problem. Why would all of this hinge upon picking up Tyson Chandler? Why is Tyson Chandler the key to all of Kuzma's problems?

I was under the assumption that there were no minutes for Kuzma at the forward position and so Luke was trying him out at center just to give him more minutes.

But obviously, you've found a way to fit him into the starting lineup and it all hinges upon picking up Tyson Chandler. So, let's hope we can pick up Tyson Chandler and that solves everything.

So, yeah, in your scenario, I wouldn't trade Kuzma since we found him some minutes.

But then, if this is the actual solution for this year, then what happens next year if we do sign Kawhi, Durant, or Klay.

It's going to be an even worse problem next year. Something's got to give.

Ideally, if we're that high on Kuzma, we've got to find him some kind of permanent role moving forward. Whatever position that is, whether it's power forward, small forward, center - we need to find minutes for him at his best position instead of fitting him in where he can fit in.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:16 am    Post subject:

Kuz won't last half the season playing center. He's a stretch 4 at best and a nice mismatch at the 3 but will get eaten alive inside at the 5. Luke should know better than anyone about playing to your strengths.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:18 am    Post subject:

Kuz is best as a 4/3.

If Wagner were healthy, I think he could beat out Zub for the 15-18mpg we need from our backup center.

Obviously he's out so they're probably just experimenting right now as it is the preseason.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:19 pm    Post subject:

Kuzma has a lot of Clarkson in his game
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:43 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
Well, now you're just contradicting yourself.

First you started off by saying:

2019 wrote:
But here we are and Luke is trying to find a way to get Kuz mins.


But now, you've found 32 minutes for him at power forward and in the starting lineup:

2019 wrote:
If you get a center off waivers- let's assume Chandler- here is a potential min breakdown:

McGee (20) | Chandler (20) | Beasley (8)
Kuzma (32) | LeBron (16)
LeBron (16) | Ingram (24) | Lance (8)
Ingram (10) | Hart (28) | Svi or Lance or Lonzo (10)
Lonzo (28) | Rondo (20)


Yeah, if this is a possible solution, then there really is no problem. Why would all of this hinge upon picking up Tyson Chandler? Why is Tyson Chandler the key to all of Kuzma's problems?

I was under the assumption that there were no minutes for Kuzma at the forward position and so Luke was trying him out at center just to give him more minutes.

But obviously, you've found a way to fit him into the starting lineup and it all hinges upon picking up Tyson Chandler. So, let's hope we can pick up Tyson Chandler and that solves everything.

So, yeah, in your scenario, I wouldn't trade Kuzma since we found him some minutes.

But then, if this is the actual solution for this year, then what happens next year if we do sign Kawhi, Durant, or Klay.

It's going to be an even worse problem next year. Something's got to give.

Ideally, if we're that high on Kuzma, we've got to find him some kind of permanent role moving forward. Whatever position that is, whether it's power forward, small forward, center - we need to find minutes for him at his best position instead of fitting him in where he can fit in.


I think you're trying to argue for the sake of arguing.. I'm finding a different solution to the problem of starting Kuzma at C which I have already agreed til you is not ideal. However, for now, Luke is trying to find him mins while also giving KCP, Lance, and Hart mins. Eventually, something has to to give and one of those guys has to get their mins cut down so Kuz can get his at the 4/3 or he's got to play the 5.

It doesn't have to be Chandler. It can be Deyonta Davis. I don't care. Simply making the point that if you're able to acquire a decent backup big and cut isn from somewhere else, then finding Kuzma mins is possible without sticking him at center.

Not really sure what contradiction you think you're catching me in but this conversation doesn't seem to be mutually understood.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:45 pm    Post subject:

al242 wrote:
Kuzma has a lot of Clarkson in his game


LOL
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:47 pm    Post subject:

Kuzma’s fine. He just played 2 games out of position as the backup center probably also during practices. He’s also being too unselfish, been over-passing a lot of his shots.
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