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epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:46 am Post subject: |
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PauPau wrote: | AFireInside619 wrote: | PauPau wrote: | For the umpteenth time..
Hart
Ingram
LeBron
Kuzma
Mcgee
This is going to cause some bother |
I like this line-up if we had too, but Zo’s will be a better defender when it’s all said and done. Health withstanding of course. |
@ epak Zo is the better defender, no doubt about that. His shooting and interior finishing though disadvantage him v Hart.
Lebron and Ingram is a 'good enough' tandem to shoulder the playmaking load I think, of course you can never have enough elite passing but we also need finishers.
If Zo can improve his black spots, the choice is obvious without those improvements however, the choice is obvious as well. |
Very fair point. |
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audioaxes Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2004 Posts: 12573
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:50 am Post subject: |
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I dont hate the KCP signing IF he doesnt get in the way of Hart getting the minutes and rotations he deserves as our long term player. One thing I like is that we can play both together as combo guards if Lonzo is injured or cant hit anything.
With that said I'd rather we re-sign Randle and see how he did for another year with Lebron. _________________ (bleep) Kawhi |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:55 am Post subject: |
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Baron Von Humongous wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | MIMLaker wrote: | (1) This is why I didn't see the need to re-sign KCP. Hoping this is the last year of the favors to LBJ/ KCP's agent, 'cause we're paying big bucks for KCP while Hart does the same for a fraction of the price.
(2) This is why I was hoping we could've gotten Brunson or DDV in the 1st round, just for the same type of toughness, work ethic, basketball smarts, and desire to learn and improve. At the same time...
(3) This is why I'm staying optimistic re: Wagner, because this is the same FO that picked Hart. |
KCP was the price for LBJ. I think the FO doesn't regret that.
Worst case scenario is that we have 2 competent SGs. I doubt KCP is back next year if Hart shows he's the long-term SG. |
Hopefully money saved to actually address the gaping hole at center (after Kawhi signs and Deng is stretched or traded). |
Absolutely. Any targets? Slim pickings in 2019 at the 8-12m range. Vucevic? Dedmon? |
Brook? Robin? And remember that DeAndre Jordan and DeMarcus Cousins will also be UFAs next summer.
Beyond that, there are some interesting big man RFAs on capped out playoff teams who could thrive with larger roles: Jordan Bell, Cheick Diallo, and Daniel Theis come to mind. |
They passed on Brook at probably 2-3m/year. So I assume that's a no.
I think DJ/Boogie will be too expensive.
So we're at guys like Vucevic/Dedmon/Tyson, etc. |
Well, I also doubt Brook and the Lakers make up, hence the but stranger reunions have happened in this league.
There won't be so much money available - especially from good teams - that Cousins and Jordan will be looking at large, long-term paydays next summer. I'd still bet on them having to choose between a bigger short-term payday or long-term security again next summer.
Another name to watch out for is Derrick Favors. |
Yeah. Let's see how his health holds up. Should be playing center but with Gobert, is playing PF. |
Agreed.
And I didn't mean to downplay Vucevic. He would be an excellent option and I think likely on par with or better than Cousins going forward, but without the baggage of attitude and faded former glory. He's really grown as a 3pt shooter, passer, and positional defender over the past couple seasons and will only be 28 next year.
Ball/TBD (Rondo @ room exception?)
Kawhi/Hart
Ingram/Svi/Bonga
Lebron/Kuz
Vucevic/Wagner/TBD (McGee @ minimum?)
A pretty sexy lineup, no? Difficult to achieve, but all things are possible with Lebron. |
Didn't he play for USC too? would be an interesting offensive fit. Can stretch the floor and post up. A good candidate for a 9-11m/year deal. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Baron Von Humongous Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015 Posts: 32979
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:17 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | MIMLaker wrote: | (1) This is why I didn't see the need to re-sign KCP. Hoping this is the last year of the favors to LBJ/ KCP's agent, 'cause we're paying big bucks for KCP while Hart does the same for a fraction of the price.
(2) This is why I was hoping we could've gotten Brunson or DDV in the 1st round, just for the same type of toughness, work ethic, basketball smarts, and desire to learn and improve. At the same time...
(3) This is why I'm staying optimistic re: Wagner, because this is the same FO that picked Hart. |
KCP was the price for LBJ. I think the FO doesn't regret that.
Worst case scenario is that we have 2 competent SGs. I doubt KCP is back next year if Hart shows he's the long-term SG. |
Hopefully money saved to actually address the gaping hole at center (after Kawhi signs and Deng is stretched or traded). |
Absolutely. Any targets? Slim pickings in 2019 at the 8-12m range. Vucevic? Dedmon? |
Brook? Robin? And remember that DeAndre Jordan and DeMarcus Cousins will also be UFAs next summer.
Beyond that, there are some interesting big man RFAs on capped out playoff teams who could thrive with larger roles: Jordan Bell, Cheick Diallo, and Daniel Theis come to mind. |
They passed on Brook at probably 2-3m/year. So I assume that's a no.
I think DJ/Boogie will be too expensive.
So we're at guys like Vucevic/Dedmon/Tyson, etc. |
Well, I also doubt Brook and the Lakers make up, hence the but stranger reunions have happened in this league.
There won't be so much money available - especially from good teams - that Cousins and Jordan will be looking at large, long-term paydays next summer. I'd still bet on them having to choose between a bigger short-term payday or long-term security again next summer.
Another name to watch out for is Derrick Favors. |
Yeah. Let's see how his health holds up. Should be playing center but with Gobert, is playing PF. |
Agreed.
And I didn't mean to downplay Vucevic. He would be an excellent option and I think likely on par with or better than Cousins going forward, but without the baggage of attitude and faded former glory. He's really grown as a 3pt shooter, passer, and positional defender over the past couple seasons and will only be 28 next year.
Ball/TBD (Rondo @ room exception?)
Kawhi/Hart
Ingram/Svi/Bonga
Lebron/Kuz
Vucevic/Wagner/TBD (McGee @ minimum?)
A pretty sexy lineup, no? Difficult to achieve, but all things are possible with Lebron. |
Didn't he play for USC too? would be an interesting offensive fit. Can stretch the floor and post up. A good candidate for a 9-11m/year deal. |
Yep, a former Trojan. If he's looking to win after being banished to Orlando for the last several seasons, he could do a lot worse than a low eight figure salary from the Lakers. _________________ Under New Management |
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ShowtimeReturns Star Player
Joined: 21 Oct 2017 Posts: 1065
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:18 am Post subject: |
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RCS926 wrote: | I feel like Hart is going to be closing out a lot of games for us whether or not he starts. His ability to attack closeouts is going to be valuable at the end of games when defenses tighten up on shooters. For all the talk of how similar Hart and KCP are, that's an area where Hart is clearly superior. |
And judging from what I'm seeing in SL that ability to attack the rim has gotten even better He is a very strong finisher at the basket despite getting a lot of contact |
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Dr. Funkbot Star Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2001 Posts: 8188 Location: Eagle Rock
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:19 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | MIMLaker wrote: | (1) This is why I didn't see the need to re-sign KCP. Hoping this is the last year of the favors to LBJ/ KCP's agent, 'cause we're paying big bucks for KCP while Hart does the same for a fraction of the price.
(2) This is why I was hoping we could've gotten Brunson or DDV in the 1st round, just for the same type of toughness, work ethic, basketball smarts, and desire to learn and improve. At the same time...
(3) This is why I'm staying optimistic re: Wagner, because this is the same FO that picked Hart. |
KCP was the price for LBJ. I think the FO doesn't regret that.
Worst case scenario is that we have 2 competent SGs. I doubt KCP is back next year if Hart shows he's the long-term SG. |
IMO Hart is better than KCP, certainly more consistent. But yeah, KCP is probably the starter. As long as they play similar minutes, I don't care who starts. _________________ R.I.P. Doc Buss |
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Super Mega Team Star Player
Joined: 25 Jul 2008 Posts: 3877
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:28 am Post subject: |
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Cutheon wrote: | How does anyone hate the KCP signing? I can understand the cost being a bother, but unless you want Hart playing 48 minutes, I think it’s odd to hate a guy who gives you exactly what Hart gives you. Signing kCP means we basically always have a strong 3/D guy at the SG position at all times. Hart’s really really good but he’s also a second year player - expect some struggles and expect him to adjust to playing a whole season and preserving his body. KCP let’s him do that - just like Hart let’s KCP go HAM on the court and rest while off it. These guys are so complementary. And occasionally we can throw em both out there and have great speed, stealing ability, finishing, and shooting.
Love them both. Like I said - give me 48 minutes and 25, 13, 4, 2 on 45/40/75 from the second guard position nightly anytime! |
I agree with this. With our injuries last year, I don't mind us having this amount of depth.
If Zo isn't ready or gets injured again, Hart can plug in some minutes there. He's so versatile, he can sub in 1-3. |
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Baron Von Humongous Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015 Posts: 32979
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:31 am Post subject: |
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OC Lakerfan wrote: | Cutheon wrote: | How does anyone hate the KCP signing? I can understand the cost being a bother, but unless you want Hart playing 48 minutes, I think it’s odd to hate a guy who gives you exactly what Hart gives you. Signing kCP means we basically always have a strong 3/D guy at the SG position at all times. Hart’s really really good but he’s also a second year player - expect some struggles and expect him to adjust to playing a whole season and preserving his body. KCP let’s him do that - just like Hart let’s KCP go HAM on the court and rest while off it. These guys are so complementary. And occasionally we can throw em both out there and have great speed, stealing ability, finishing, and shooting.
Love them both. Like I said - give me 48 minutes and 25, 13, 4, 2 on 45/40/75 from the second guard position nightly anytime! |
I agree with this. With our injuries last year, I don't mind us having this amount of depth.
If Zo isn't ready or gets injured again, Hart can plug in some minutes there. He's so versatile, he can sub in 1-3. |
Right, with Lebron as a big initiator, Walton can play Hart or KCP as off-ball 3&D PGs at times (the Derek Fisher role). _________________ Under New Management |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:55 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | Yep, a former Trojan. If he's looking to win after being banished to Orlando for the last several seasons, he could do a lot worse than a low eight figure salary from the Lakers.
_________________ |
In fact, wish we could trade for him this year but no way does Orlando take Deng + picks right now.
But yeah, something like a 3 year (2+1 player option) at 10-11/year wouldn't be too crazy.
I like your Favors idea too if he can stay healthy. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Baron Von Humongous Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015 Posts: 32979
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:35 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Quote: | Yep, a former Trojan. If he's looking to win after being banished to Orlando for the last several seasons, he could do a lot worse than a low eight figure salary from the Lakers.
_________________ |
In fact, wish we could trade for him this year but no way does Orlando take Deng + picks right now.
But yeah, something like a 3 year (2+1 player option) at 10-11/year wouldn't be too crazy.
I like your Favors idea too if he can stay healthy. |
Cheers _________________ Under New Management |
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AFireInside619 Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Dec 2015 Posts: 11447
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:19 am Post subject: |
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Aside from KCP having a good second half last season, signing him helped us get Lebron. 18m+12m well spent. KCP is faster than Hart on fast breaks also.
Hart & KCP can play together. There’s no conflict. |
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pokoy Moderator
Joined: 12 Apr 2001 Posts: 14545
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:25 am Post subject: |
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AFireInside619 wrote: | Aside from KCP having a good second half last season, signing him helped us get Lebron. 18m+12m well spent. KCP is faster than Hart on fast breaks also.
Hart & KCP can play together. There’s no conflict. |
Yep. I think they'd actually thrive together, both good floor spacers and good defensively. If I remember correctly Hart played a bit of SF for us last season too. |
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AirTupac Star Player
Joined: 04 Feb 2018 Posts: 1234
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:45 am Post subject: |
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Jimmy Butler
4 years of college
22 year old rookie
pick 30 overall
8.6/4/1.4 with 46.7/38/80 splits in his first full year
20.8/6.5/2 with 43/50/89 and 0.8 steals in summer league as a 2nd year player
Josh Hart
4 years of college
22 year old rookie
pick 30 overall
7.9/5.2/2.3 with 46.9/40/70 splits in his first full year
24.2/5.2/2.3 with 48/40/80 and 1.5 steals in summer league as a 2nd year player |
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CamReddish Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2015 Posts: 7783
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:51 am Post subject: |
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AirTupac wrote: | Jimmy Butler
4 years of college
22 year old rookie
pick 30 overall
8.6/4/1.4 with 46.7/38/80 splits in his first full year
20.8/6.5/2 with 43/50/89 and 0.8 steals in summer league as a 2nd year player
Josh Hart
4 years of college
22 year old rookie
pick 30 overall
7.9/5.2/2.3 with 46.9/40/70 splits in his first full year
24.2/5.2/2.3 with 48/40/80 and 1.5 steals in summer league as a 2nd year player |
He is on the right path. We know he has his head on straight and will put in the work also. _________________ Previously LBJ23 |
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greenfrog Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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What year did Butler develop his iso game? |
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CamReddish Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2015 Posts: 7783
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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greenfrog wrote: | What year did Butler develop his iso game? |
3rd and took off in the 4th year. _________________ Previously LBJ23 |
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LakerSanity Moderator
Joined: 30 Nov 2006 Posts: 33474 Location: Long Beach, California
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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AirTupac wrote: | Jimmy Butler
4 years of college
22 year old rookie
pick 30 overall
8.6/4/1.4 with 46.7/38/80 splits in his first full year
20.8/6.5/2 with 43/50/89 and 0.8 steals in summer league as a 2nd year player
Josh Hart
4 years of college
22 year old rookie
pick 30 overall
7.9/5.2/2.3 with 46.9/40/70 splits in his first full year
24.2/5.2/2.3 with 48/40/80 and 1.5 steals in summer league as a 2nd year player |
Here is something to think about too. While Jimmy Butler is 6'8 and Josh Hart is only 6'5, Josh Hart's wingspan is 6'8.25 with an 8'5 standing reach compared to Butler's 6'7.5 wingspan and a similar 8'5.5 standing reach.
Its actually a really fair comparison. Good post. _________________ LakersGround's Terms of Service
Twitter: @DeleteThisPost |
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epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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LakerSanity wrote: | AirTupac wrote: | Jimmy Butler
4 years of college
22 year old rookie
pick 30 overall
8.6/4/1.4 with 46.7/38/80 splits in his first full year
20.8/6.5/2 with 43/50/89 and 0.8 steals in summer league as a 2nd year player
Josh Hart
4 years of college
22 year old rookie
pick 30 overall
7.9/5.2/2.3 with 46.9/40/70 splits in his first full year
24.2/5.2/2.3 with 48/40/80 and 1.5 steals in summer league as a 2nd year player |
Here is something to think about too. While Jimmy Butler is 6'8 and Josh Hart is only 6'5, Josh Hart's wingspan is 6'8.25 with an 8'5 standing reach compared to Butler's 6'7.5 wingspan and a similar 8'5.5 standing reach.
Its actually a really fair comparison. Good post. |
Great post 2pac.
And good find LS. I would have never guessed JB had average measurements. |
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LakerSD Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2016 Posts: 23731
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Judah Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2015 Posts: 4759
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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MVP! Yes! _________________ “Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
- John Piper |
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epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | Bill Oram
@billoram
Josh Hart named NBA Summer League MVP while Svi Mykhailiuk makes second team. Lakers play Portland for Summer League girls tonight in Vegas. |
Congrats man! |
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danzag Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2013 Posts: 22242 Location: Brazil
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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MVP! MVP! MVP! |
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PHILosophize Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Nov 2012 Posts: 10758
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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WHO ARE THESE SUMMER LEAGUE GIRLS? _________________ one dog goes that way the other dog goes the other way |
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Judah Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2015 Posts: 4759
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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Summer League girls? _________________ “Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
- John Piper |
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El Seano Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 Nov 2008 Posts: 895
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think Jordan Clarkson is going to leave any summer league girls for anybody else quite frankly. They should just give the winner a trophy or something instead. |
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