Josh Hart - 30th Pick Playing Like a Lottery Pick (Named Summer League MVP p.112)
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LBJ23
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:52 am    Post subject:

lakersboy wrote:
kawhileonard wrote:
lakersboy wrote:
kawhileonard wrote:
lakersboy wrote:
It's July, and this guy looks better than when he scored at least 20 points in his last 5 games, including 30 the final game on great 3 pt shooting. It stands to reason that he'll be even better by October.

When Miami got Shaq from the Lakers, they refused to put Dwyane Wade in the trade. The Lakers have three of those type of players that you should not trade, and that doesn't even include Ball, who I really like. Now we've seen great improvement from the least of our draft picks over the previous 2 years. We also know Ingram improved significantly last year and is likely to be at least a 20 ppg type scorer since he has the same type of work ethic Hart has shown, but with more time on his hand without being interrupted by Summer League. We know that Kuzma, whose scoring was identical to Ingrams, has been doing the same type of work too. Yet, there's people who look at this team and say they'll win 45 games with LeBron. HOW? They've said Minnesota is better because they have Butler, and Townes is an all star.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. To me, if you put LeBron with a highly capable shooting guard, small forward, and power forward, then throw Lonzo into the mix as the 2nd engine that makes that team go, I expect something very similar to that high-powered UCLA offense we saw a year ago. Then factor Rondo, who I dont like, as being backup (hopefully) pg.

I wouldn't trade any of these guys for Kawhi. Just take a chance and let him come on his own. To me, this team has a chance to be 'off the charts' good/efficient/great, and it shouldn't be tinkered with just so you can have the all star the media keeps urging Maglinka to mortgage the future for.


Dwayne Wade was a stud the first step he took in the NBA.

Which player among Hart, Ingram, or Kuzma do you think wont be on that level this season? The things Hart is showing he can do now are far beyond what he did last year.


Wade's level? None of them.

Hart is good, I like Hart (more than Lonzo actually), but Wade was a different beast

Wade wasn't on Wade's level his rookie year, but it was apparent he had talent that could propel his team towards a championship. No doubt in my mind Ingram and Kuzma,, by this season, should be showing the type of talent. Hart already is.


What? Lol.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:05 am    Post subject:

I wanted Jordan Bell in the draft, but I absolutely can not complain about Hart. Kid has been balling!
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:16 am    Post subject:

pmacla wrote:
how good of a defender is this kid? That euro from Philly gets 40 one game Hart guards him and gets what 5 pts and last night Knox had 27 pts after 3 Hart goes on him and he gets 2 in the 4th qtr.

He is gonna just keep getting better too


I predict some All-D selections in his future.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:18 am    Post subject:

Dr. Funkbot wrote:
I wanted Jordan Bell in the draft, but I absolutely can not complain about Hart. Kid has been balling!


Same. Wish he lasted four more picks....
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MickMgl
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:19 am    Post subject:

2019 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
leor_77 wrote:
Stumpy25 wrote:
Hart is a star in this league and you can take that to the bank.


Yeah, I feel like if he had his own team, he could be an all-star one day. People on here don't seem to agree, but I think it would be possible. Would be tough on this team though.


Gonna be tough for him to be an all star IMO.

I kid you not. I think he's going to be this team's Byron Scott. A good, but not all-star caliber player who is going to be essential to winning a championship.


Yeah exactly this...

And that is completely okay. The fact that we got a player who can play closing mins in game 7 of a Finals is HUGE.

Kuz, BI, Zo, Hart, Moe, Svi, Zu

... our young core is pretty stellar and deeeeeep


It just gives me anxiety thinking about who will stay and who will go.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:46 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
I'd rather we start Hart at the 2 over KCP whom I feel is redundant at this point with Hart having the higher upside.


I want Hart to start too, but we know that's not happening. Maybe within the season, he can ease into the starting role during the duration of the season.
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textbook
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:04 am    Post subject:

Ball / Rondo / AC
Hart / KCP / Svi
Ingram / Lance
Lebron / Kuzma
Mcgee / Mo / Zub

The rebounding and defense from the guard position would be best in the league.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:42 am    Post subject:

Outspoken wrote:
MJST wrote:
I'd rather we start Hart at the 2 over KCP whom I feel is redundant at this point with Hart having the higher upside.


I want Hart to start too, but we know that's not happening. Maybe within the season, he can ease into the starting role during the duration of the season.

I definitely see that happening. With Lebron here the players that are doing the best around him should quickly take a bulk of the minutes.
I can also easily see Lonzo getting benched in favor of a Hart+KCP front court if he continues his bad shooting
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:48 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
I'd rather we start Hart at the 2 over KCP whom I feel is redundant at this point with Hart having the higher upside.


I would too but it's hard to see them signing KCP for $12 million to come off the bench. However, it is interesting that Luke said all the starting spots are open this year besides Lebron's. Camp is going to be great!
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:56 am    Post subject:

textbook wrote:
Ball / Rondo / AC
Hart / KCP / Svi
Ingram / Lance
Lebron / Kuzma
Mcgee / Mo / Zub

The rebounding and defense from the guard position would be best in the league.


That's kind of where I'm at right now, except I'd like to see Svi taking Lance's minutes of his shooting continues in the regular season.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:07 am    Post subject:

I would start Rondo and let Ball build confidence from 2nd tier guys. I like Hart off the bench with Ball for chemistry, extra playmaking, and the energy he brings. KCP doesn't offer the same type of playmaking and you won't need that as much with the starting unit (see Lebron/Ingram/etc). Hart will have more opportunities off the bench.

Rondo/ Ball/ AC
KCP / Hart / Svi
Ingram / Lance
Lebron / Kuzma
Mcgee / Mo / Zubac.

Closing games will be an entirely different lineup.

Rondo / or Hart if single offensive possession
KCP/Hart (whoever is hot)
Ingram
Kuzma
Lebron
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:16 am    Post subject:

People used to get mad when anyone said we traded DLO for Kuzma & cap space. The complaints were, “we could have DLO & Kuzma”. And added, “The trade was really for Josh Hart”. Well if that flawed logic is applied, then we traded DLO for Hart & cap space (Lebron James).

Let that sink in. We traded an injury proned, but potentially really good DLO for a guy who can defend 1-4, run an offense, rebound, drive and finish, drain 3’s, and who’ll would look great next to a Superstar. Oh, and Lebron (bleep) James.

DLO has a higher ceiling than Hart, but Hart’s floor is much higher than DLO’s. I will always argue we traded DLO for Kuzma, but at this moment the Lakers are winning the Hart argument as well.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:24 am    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:
People used to get mad when anyone said we traded DLO for Kuzma & cap space. The complaints were, “we could have DLO & Kuzma”. And added, “The trade was really for Josh Hart”. Well if that flawed logic is applied, then we traded DLO for Hart & cap space (Lebron James).

Let that sink in. We traded an injury proned, but potentially really good DLO for a guy who can defend 1-4, run an offense, rebound, drive and finish, drain 3’s, and who’ll would look great next to a Superstar. Oh, and Lebron (bleep) James.

DLO has a higher ceiling than Hart, but Hart’s floor is much higher than DLO’s. I will always argue we traded DLO for Kuzma, but at this moment the Lakers are winning the Hart argument as well.


Offensive ceiling, yea...

Not too much on the defensive end, rebounding, or intangibles.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:35 am    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:
People used to get mad when anyone said we traded DLO for Kuzma & cap space. The complaints were, “we could have DLO & Kuzma”. And added, “The trade was really for Josh Hart”.

DLO has a higher ceiling than Hart, but Hart’s floor is much higher than DLO’s. I will always argue we traded DLO for Kuzma, but at this moment the Lakers are winning the Hart argument as well.


I think it was both well rationalized and supported by comments made by Kuzma, the Lakers and the Nets that Kuzma would have been there at #28 and that he was going to be the Lakers' pick. So the argument that the return on the pick in the Russell deal (#27) was really Bryant and Hart is reasonable. It's not the way I looked at it but reasonable all the same.

Hart has played well enough since the last ten games of last season, and with Russell still searching for consistency after having spent much of last season working back from injury, it's fair to ask who is more valuable at this point. I agree Russell still has the higher ceiling. His playmaking and PnR abilities are critically important in today's game. He could still turn into a star.

But I also think you could make the case that Hart is either approaching, or already become the better asset. Russell is a year away from restricted free agency and there's going to be a lot of teams with cap room. In other words, he could be one year away from being a very risky contract. Hart on the other hand is a quality two-way wing right now on a near minimum deal for the next three seasons.

Hart was an amazing pick.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:12 am    Post subject:

McGee (20) | Wagner (14) | LeBron (8) | Kuzma (6)
LeBron (22) | Kuzma (22)
Ingram (34) | Lance (14)
Pope (24) | Hart (24)
Lonzo (30) | Rondo (18)

the mins are gonna be weird but if between LeBron and Kuz, they can play more mins at C and less for Wagner, you can have something more like this:

McGee (20) | Wagner (10) | LeBron (10) | Kuzma (8)
LeBron (20) | Kuzma (20) | Ingram (8)
Ingram (26) | Lance (14) | Pope (4) | Hart (4)
Pope (22) | Hart (22) | Lonzo (4)
Lonzo (26) | Rondo (22)

either way, Hart deserves big mins and that's they way I'd try and play them...
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:21 am    Post subject:

Hopefully we blow out a lot of teams and we can keep the minutes down for everyone
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:27 am    Post subject:

I can see a near 50/50 split on both guard positions.

Lonzo missed 30 games so that may be a good thing.

KCP/Hart are almost equal in my book, but KCP will get the starting nod thanks to Klutch.

At the SF spot, minutes are probably 2/3rd BI 1/3rd Lance.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:15 pm    Post subject:

OC Lakerfan wrote:
MJST wrote:
I'd rather we start Hart at the 2 over KCP whom I feel is redundant at this point with Hart having the higher upside.


I would too but it's hard to see them signing KCP for $12 million to come off the bench. However, it is interesting that Luke said all the starting spots are open this year besides Lebron's. Camp is going to be great!

you also have to consider that KCP a one year rental and will likely be a casualty to a big FA we sign next year. So why give KCP starter minutes over Hart who is already better and still growing as a 2nd year player?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:16 pm    Post subject:

audioaxes wrote:
OC Lakerfan wrote:
MJST wrote:
I'd rather we start Hart at the 2 over KCP whom I feel is redundant at this point with Hart having the higher upside.


I would too but it's hard to see them signing KCP for $12 million to come off the bench. However, it is interesting that Luke said all the starting spots are open this year besides Lebron's. Camp is going to be great!

you also have to consider that KCP a one year rental and will likely be a casualty to a big FA we sign next year. So why give KCP starter minutes over Hart who is already better and still growing as a 2nd year player?


It's easy. Who is represented by Klutch/
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:17 pm    Post subject:

I am all for Hart starting, I think he is better than KCP. BUT Lebron and KCP are a package so I doubt that Hart will start. With his play, I am sure that Luke will find many minutes for him even if he is not starting.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:35 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
OC Lakerfan wrote:
MJST wrote:
I'd rather we start Hart at the 2 over KCP whom I feel is redundant at this point with Hart having the higher upside.


I would too but it's hard to see them signing KCP for $12 million to come off the bench. However, it is interesting that Luke said all the starting spots are open this year besides Lebron's. Camp is going to be great!

you also have to consider that KCP a one year rental and will likely be a casualty to a big FA we sign next year. So why give KCP starter minutes over Hart who is already better and still growing as a 2nd year player?


It's easy. Who is represented by Klutch/


KCP does everything Hart does and he’s more athletic, more proven, and more experienced. I like Hart too but Jesus, some you are talking about KCP like he’s Lance Stephenson. Now if someone like Lance takes minutes away from Hart, then we have a problem.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:36 pm    Post subject:

Intlakeshow wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
OC Lakerfan wrote:
MJST wrote:
I'd rather we start Hart at the 2 over KCP whom I feel is redundant at this point with Hart having the higher upside.


I would too but it's hard to see them signing KCP for $12 million to come off the bench. However, it is interesting that Luke said all the starting spots are open this year besides Lebron's. Camp is going to be great!

you also have to consider that KCP a one year rental and will likely be a casualty to a big FA we sign next year. So why give KCP starter minutes over Hart who is already better and still growing as a 2nd year player?


It's easy. Who is represented by Klutch/


KCP does everything Hart does and he’s more athletic, more proven, and more experienced. I like Hart too but Jesus, some you are talking about KCP like he’s Lance Stephenson. Now if someone like Lance takes minutes away from Hart, then we have a problem.


I have KCP starting and splitting minutes with Hart.

But the Klutch connection is undeniable. KCP is getting paid $30m for 2 years of work. He probably gets 4 years, total of $32m somewhere if he's not a Klutch client. Good for him. And good for us that he's a decent player.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:42 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Intlakeshow wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
OC Lakerfan wrote:
MJST wrote:
I'd rather we start Hart at the 2 over KCP whom I feel is redundant at this point with Hart having the higher upside.


I would too but it's hard to see them signing KCP for $12 million to come off the bench. However, it is interesting that Luke said all the starting spots are open this year besides Lebron's. Camp is going to be great!

you also have to consider that KCP a one year rental and will likely be a casualty to a big FA we sign next year. So why give KCP starter minutes over Hart who is already better and still growing as a 2nd year player?


It's easy. Who is represented by Klutch/


KCP does everything Hart does and he’s more athletic, more proven, and more experienced. I like Hart too but Jesus, some you are talking about KCP like he’s Lance Stephenson. Now if someone like Lance takes minutes away from Hart, then we have a problem.


I have KCP starting and splitting minutes with Hart.

But the Klutch connection is undeniable. KCP is getting paid $30m for 2 years of work. He probably gets 4 years, total of $32m somewhere if he's not a Klutch client. Good for him. And good for us that he's a decent player.


My point is that even if he wasn’t a Klutch guy, it’s very justifiable to start him over Hart. Either way we’re gonna be in a good situation with one of those guys coming off the bench.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:43 pm    Post subject:

Intlakeshow wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Intlakeshow wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
OC Lakerfan wrote:
MJST wrote:
I'd rather we start Hart at the 2 over KCP whom I feel is redundant at this point with Hart having the higher upside.


I would too but it's hard to see them signing KCP for $12 million to come off the bench. However, it is interesting that Luke said all the starting spots are open this year besides Lebron's. Camp is going to be great!

you also have to consider that KCP a one year rental and will likely be a casualty to a big FA we sign next year. So why give KCP starter minutes over Hart who is already better and still growing as a 2nd year player?


It's easy. Who is represented by Klutch/


KCP does everything Hart does and he’s more athletic, more proven, and more experienced. I like Hart too but Jesus, some you are talking about KCP like he’s Lance Stephenson. Now if someone like Lance takes minutes away from Hart, then we have a problem.


I have KCP starting and splitting minutes with Hart.

But the Klutch connection is undeniable. KCP is getting paid $30m for 2 years of work. He probably gets 4 years, total of $32m somewhere if he's not a Klutch client. Good for him. And good for us that he's a decent player.


My point is that even if he wasn’t a Klutch guy, it’s very justifiable to start him over Hart. Either way we’re gonna be in a good situation with one of those guys coming off the bench.


But you can't discount that at all. He wouldn't have been paid $18m last year to be on the Lakers if they weren't using him and Rich Paul to backdoor recruit LBJ.

And it's a down payment I'm glad we paid.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:45 pm    Post subject:

Intlakeshow wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
OC Lakerfan wrote:
MJST wrote:
I'd rather we start Hart at the 2 over KCP whom I feel is redundant at this point with Hart having the higher upside.


I would too but it's hard to see them signing KCP for $12 million to come off the bench. However, it is interesting that Luke said all the starting spots are open this year besides Lebron's. Camp is going to be great!

you also have to consider that KCP a one year rental and will likely be a casualty to a big FA we sign next year. So why give KCP starter minutes over Hart who is already better and still growing as a 2nd year player?


It's easy. Who is represented by Klutch/


KCP does everything Hart does and he’s more athletic, more proven, and more experienced. I like Hart too but Jesus, some you are talking about KCP like he’s Lance Stephenson. Now if someone like Lance takes minutes away from Hart, then we have a problem.



No, no, no. KCP does not defend like hart. Maybe guards but not able to switch on bigger guys like Hart. I think Hart has become the better shooter as well but time will tell. The perfect answer here is: Have hart sign with Klutch...
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