Josh Hart - 30th Pick
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Megaton
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:41 am    Post subject:

Any updates on Josh Hart if he can play tonight? Would love to see him back out there.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:39 am    Post subject:

Megaton wrote:
Any updates on Josh Hart if he can play tonight? Would love to see him back out there.

I haven't heard anything yet. I hope returns too but they have probably shut him down too.
Hart is so versatile and he plays hard on both ends. The team could certainly use him. But it's not worth risking further injury at this point.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:52 am    Post subject:

He makes Nwaba's departure easier to stomach. KCP is the best perimeter/guard defender on the team right now, but I think Hart can step into that role in a few seasons.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:02 am    Post subject:

Josh Hart show some good flashes before going down with an injury.

I don't get being down on him it is way too early to make any judgements.

We must realize he is the 30th pick so expectations should be low. We may be a bit spoiled with the success of our last first and 2nd round draft picks.

We hit on Nance, Clarkson and Zubac and Kuzman is looking really good. That right there is amazing drafting!!!. But Antony Brown did not cut it.

Bryant looks like another guy who can develop into a good NBA 4/5. Hart may make it or he may not but we should not judge to quickly just because he sprained his ankle.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:32 am    Post subject:

Great player that fits Lonzo's offense.
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lakerdynasty5.0
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:45 am    Post subject:

I like the kind of players that Hart exemplifies,
- stay in school until ready (hopefully 4 yrs)
- play hard on both sides
- do all the dirty work.

Eddie Jones'esque?
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:18 pm    Post subject:

Josh Hart is out tonight

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:21 am    Post subject:

There has been so little talk of Hart. I would definitely like to see him in the rotation. One possibility is that Clarkson backs up Lonzo at the 1 and Hart backs up KCP at the 2. Another possibility is that Hart backs up Lonzo at the 1.

I think he can contribute right away.

Of course if Clarkson is traded, that shakes things up a bit.

Thoughts?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:05 am    Post subject:

markjay wrote:
There has been so little talk of Hart. I would definitely like to see him in the rotation. One possibility is that Clarkson backs up Lonzo at the 1 and Hart backs up KCP at the 2. Another possibility is that Hart backs up Lonzo at the 1.

I think he can contribute right away.

Of course if Clarkson is traded, that shakes things up a bit.

Thoughts?


I think a lot of it is just bad luck, since he got hurt right away. Hopefully we'll see more during preseason but it will probably only be during garbage time.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:13 am    Post subject:

markjay wrote:
There has been so little talk of Hart. I would definitely like to see him in the rotation. One possibility is that Clarkson backs up Lonzo at the 1 and Hart backs up KCP at the 2. Another possibility is that Hart backs up Lonzo at the 1.

I think he can contribute right away.

Of course if Clarkson is traded, that shakes things up a bit.

Thoughts?


I really like the pick. Hart was one of my favorites early on in th draft. Agree he can contribute this year.

See him more as a SG though. Not really as the primary ball handler and playmaker. Going to be interesting to see how quickly he can adjust to the step up to the NBA though.

IMO a KCP, Clarkson and Hart SG rotation would be pretty solid and multi dimensional. As you state, a trade could change things drastically though. Would like to see a bit of consistency this season but who knows what happens.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:06 pm    Post subject:

Wrote this awhile back. While Josh Hart had a limited sample of games due to injury, it would be interesting to see any correlation of the scouting report translating to Vegas Pro League play.
Quote:


Josh Hart


Age: 3/6/95, age 22 as of 6/2
Size: Compares in height and length to: Kentavious Caldwell-Pope out of the 2013 NBA draft. Caldwell-Pope was listed by Draftexpress in their 2013 PreDraft Measurements page at 6’4-1/2” w/o shoes, 6’8” wingspan, 204 lbs. with an 8’4-1/2” standing reach.

Josh Hart, is 6’3-3/4” w/o shoes, 6’8-1/4” wingspan, 8’5” standing reach at 209lbs from the NBA Pre-Draft workout.

While there is a small difference in height, Hart is the slightly heavier, slightly longer player. His weight speaks to his physical maturity for NBA level of play.

General athleticism:

In terms of athleticism, Josh Hart is a solid athlete. Out in the open floor, he demonstrates good speed to fill in the lanes or push the ball up court. Directional quickness leans towards the average side for wings, but with his upper body strength, he’s able to nudge opposing defenders off position a bit and gain position with every step. One unique aspect of Josh Hart’s game is how he attacks going downhill. While he doesn’t have the best first step, he has a great second gear and is capable of accelerating all the way to the basket, or stopping to use pivot moves around the hoop. This is a tremendous advantage, as it allows him to finish effectively at the rim; effectively out-speed defenders to the rim. Not all NBA players accelerate all the way to the hoop, and one guy that sticks out is Julius Randle. He has to slow down around the rim to get off a decent shot. Hart can take shots at speed.

Josh doesn’t have tremendous vertical leaping ability, but he compensates for that using footwork. When attacking the rim, he uses footwork in three different ways: goes into a jumpstop before a shot, utilizes a Euro-step as he strides to the hoop, or stops and pivots for a shot right at the cup. This footwork helps compensate for lack of dynamic ball-handling ability, but still allows him to be an effective finisher at the rim.

Unlike most wiry NBA guards, Hart has a very strong post base, which allows him to switch defensively onto bigger players at the NCAA level. This especially shows with his ability to box-out competitively against bigger opponents.

In regards to lateral agility, Hart has shown he has two good slides in him. This allows him to deny dribble penetration at one angle, but he cannot change direction immediately once that angle is cut off. This bodes fairly well when he attempts to trap defensively, heat up some guards in the backcourt, or just deny dribble penetration. Even if he is beat, it doesn’t quit, and does his best to recover. This is where lack of elite NBA length and vertical ability come into play. What would be a blocked shot if given those specific physical attributes, ends up as a foul, because the ball is just out of reach.


Offensive skill set:


Painted area:
As mentioned earlier, Josh Hart gets to the rim effectively in three specific ways: getting into a jumpstop before a shot, utilizing a Euro-step at speed and using finesse, or stopping altogether to get an open shot at the rim. According to Hoop-math.com, 35.6% of his shots are at the rim, where he finishes at a scorching 70.9% clip. This is because he’s able to combine his unique attributes all into the same play, meaning, he goes downhill, uses his upperbody strength to shed defenders off position, uses a footwork move, and finishes with good vertical ability and decent touch around the rim. Down, Diagonal, Right, B, A, Layup. While this is a somewhat predictable series of moves, it’s just enough at the NCAA level to keep defenders off-balance and finish at a tremendous rate. At the NBA level, it may not be enough. He compensates with a solid 36.7% free throw rate, where he converts at 74.7% rate.

Mid-range to Long 2:
While he is not likely to opt for a midrange game, he is still an effective shooter outside of the cup and just before the three-point line. He takes just under 25% of his total shots from this area, where he shoots at a very solid 39.8% clip. While he is a capable shooter off-the-dribble, especially with a 1-or-2 dribble pull up shot, his biggest area of opportunity is the pull up shot when the defender sags on pick and roll coverage. That shot can come with time, but it may not be a critical necessary part of his game once he enters the NBA going forward.

3-point range:
This is a critical skill that he was drafted for. He’s operating level starts at the three-point line within the halfcourt offense, and his scoring ability revolves around this skill at the NBA level. Like most perimeter players, he uses rip throughs to attack the rim, but tries to be less predictable by opting to attack left. When he does attack left, he is as capable of a pull up shot or a finish at the rim. The past three years at Villanova, he shot 46.4%, 35.7%, and 40.4% from his sophomore to his senior year respectively. But, just to show how critical the 3-point shot is to his game, he shot with a 3-point rate of 46.5%, 34.4%, and 39.5% from his sophomore to senior year. What I love most about his shooting is how shockingly consistent it is, whether he was a role player for Villanova or the #1 option last season.

Overall shooting tidbits:
Josh Hart shot a remarkably high 56%-60% for the past three years at Villanova. This is largely in part to his surprising ability to finish at the rim with great efficiency. As a sophomore, he shot 66.3% at the rim with 34.4% of his shots at the rim. As a junior, he shot a stellar 74.4% at the rim with 35.7% of his total shots at the rim. His last season, despite the added pressure of being a #1 option on offense, he shot 70.9% at the rim, with 35.6% of his total shots at the rim. While these percentages may not directly translate to NBA level athleticism and length, it is a sign of his effective moves and strength utilization when attacking the cup.

Playmaking:
Josh Hart is willing to move the ball, but isn’t seen as a primary pick-and-roll playmaker or pull-up shooter. Oddly enough, like Jordan Clarkson, his court-vision completely narrows as he gets closer to the rim. This is certainly understandable considering how remarkably efficient he has been throughout his tenure at Villanova, but the next step is slowing down the game, and reading the defense once he’s right at the free throw line. Pete Zayas showed how he was able to hit bigmen and off-ball cutters once the defense committed to him at the free throw line. When it comes to hard hedges, any kind of trap or double team, Hart gets sped up a bit and tries to throw the least risky pass. Expanding upon pick-and-roll timing and pocket passing would really open things up for him as a tertiary playmaker.


Defensive skill set:

One of the most critical rules of basketball on the defensive end is keeping one eye on the ball and one eye on your assignment. For everyone in the world, this may leave defenders cross-eyed, but elite defenders compensate by putting their heads on a swivel to always be aware of what the opponents are doing. Villanova switched often, and had no issues switching Hart from point guards to centers. While Hart has a strong post base that is formidable against wing players, it’s simply not enough against power forwards and centers. However, he does not give up on the play and always gives an opportunity for a teammate to take advantage of the situation. Simply put, if he occupies his assignment by boxing him out for a rebound, the teammate is free to grab and go.

In regards to lateral agility, he has shown to be solid. While he lacks elite level of lateral agility and elite length for the wing position, Hart can absolutely have a positive net effect defensively down the line. He does a good job of reading when an opponent is blindsided, plays rover, and throws himself into loose balls to force turnovers. This is his one of his best attributes in terms of team defense. In a switch-heavy defense, especially when a lineup is considered position-less, this can be considered a necessary part of a team defensive scheme. At times, it looks instinctual for him.


Rebounding:


Hart is a very good rebounder from the guard position. It’s not always expected for guards to attack the offensive boards for the sake of sacrificing defensive balance, and for Hart, that has declined from a solid 10% (for a forward) to 6% offensive rebounding percentage for a guard. However, he is certainly more capable as a defensive rebounder, where he averaged 17.2% and 17.5% defensive rebounding percentage the past two seasons respectively. That’s enough for 6.8 and 6.4 rebounds per game, respectively with up to 33 minutes per game. That’s certainly average for a small forward prospect, but also shows how Hart has a slight nose for the ball, whether it’s defensive rebounding or blindsiding opponents for steals.

Conclusion:

Quite a few player comparisons have been brought up in regards to Josh Hart. Names such as Wesley Mathews, Courtney Lee, and Aaron Afflalo have all come up. While all of these are fair comparisons, especially when Josh Hart is projected to be in a 3-and-D role at the NBA level, there’s something that needs to be critically pointed out.

In terms of general statistics, for the most part, Josh Hart takes the best of skills of all of them.

What do I mean by that? Only Aaron Afflalo comes close when comparing 2-point percentage, and Josh Hart is 5% better over his NCAA career (59.2% vs 53.9%). Hart is right there with Courtney Lee in terms of 3-point percentage at 38.9% vs. 40.1% throughout their respective NCAA tenures. Hart is the best rebounder of the three, and has the rebounding edge over Courtney Lee (5.6 vs. 5.2) per game. During their respective last seasons at the NCAA level, only Josh Hart knocked on the door of 3 assists per game. Only Courtney Lee edges out Josh Hart in terms of steal rate and block rate, and that is debatable considering the level of competition at Western Kentucky vs. Villanova.

Josh Hart can excel as a 3-and-D player at the NBA level, but it wouldn’t surprise me if he expanded on his playmaking ability, especially out of pick and rolls, to possibly become a 3rd option on offense. He has just enough ability to create his own shot. He’s efficient in spot up situations and in transition. He has the hoop IQ to opt for better shots and move the ball when he cannot create a good shot. He is unusually efficient at the rim for a player that isn’t seen as the most explosive finisher at the NCAA level. There’s a lot to like there.

According to Cranjis McBasketball (@T1m_NBA) on twitter, his playtype mostly resembles E’Twaun Moore, Manu Ginobili, and even Kent Bazemore with over 93% similarity score.

Document link here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15l7WvacJ6JBqm5Y8xnjkjJtAMqnrkzlJGKsEv9P-8Ts/edit#gid=1758767110

What is expected to change at the NBA level is more opportunities to cut and get more shots off screen and decrease the opportunities as a pick-and-roll ball-handler. These specific play types lead to what Josh Hart does best, spot up shooting and playing off-ball. With his incredible efficiency at the rim and high volume of 3-point shooting, Josh Hart could be more than just a rotation guard, especially in a Laker offense build around motion and spacing.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:13 pm    Post subject:

Nice work!
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:06 pm    Post subject:

With all the talk of Ball and Kuzma, I haven't heard much regarding Hart's potential role in this years rotation. He is a baller and I think after this coming pre-season when he gets to show his stuff, people will think we got two steals at the end of the 1st round.
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epak
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:13 pm    Post subject:

I wish he hit more of his open 3s before he got hurt.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:46 pm    Post subject:

Good read, Mike.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:24 pm    Post subject:

Thanks Mike!
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:31 pm    Post subject:

70% at the rim for multiple years in a row is insane! This guy is primed to be a solid rotation guy and with a little luck an above-average starter. And from the little bit I've watched of him he doesn't make a lot of mistakes. Any team could use a player like that.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:54 pm    Post subject:

trablos wrote:
70% at the rim for multiple years in a row is insane! This guy is primed to be a solid rotation guy and with a little luck an above-average starter. And from the little bit I've watched of him he doesn't make a lot of mistakes. Any team could use a player like that.


In his rookie season clarkson was elite at the rim as well. Top 5 in the league IIRC. Really not sure why that went away after that year
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:49 am    Post subject:

Chronicle wrote:
trablos wrote:
70% at the rim for multiple years in a row is insane! This guy is primed to be a solid rotation guy and with a little luck an above-average starter. And from the little bit I've watched of him he doesn't make a lot of mistakes. Any team could use a player like that.


In his rookie season clarkson was elite at the rim as well. Top 5 in the league IIRC. Really not sure why that went away after that year


Shot selection and bigger defenders at 2.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:52 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
<amazing Hart analysis>

One of the best write ups I've seen at the site. Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:17 am    Post subject:

I will be sure to check out this Hart breakdown later!
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:51 am    Post subject:

Nice analysis.

Etwaun Moore play with a shot similar to Courtney Lee. I will take that for a 6 man or back up guard. His defense looked promising from the summer league. If we don't end up with a vet PG, he may be the older player Lonzo learns some defense from.

This all depends on who breaks out next year. If KCP breaks(max) and Clarkson plays good defense, Hart would be expendable with Randle and others. If Randle breaks out, Hart may stay depending on who the other max would be. Same goes for Clarkson. And if you do go for another max, it means you're going all in. They would deal with being over the cap for a few years if it meant rings.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:09 am    Post subject:

Hart's got to stay ready. He wasn't able to pull a Kuzma in SPL and showcase his ability and skill. If Thomas and Blue end up with 2 way contracts for this season somewhere they'll have Hart to thank for it.

KCP's going to play all the minutes he can handle at SG. Hart could end up being VERY similar to Pope at that position - not quite as fast but with a better 3pt shot.

We've got another FA to bring in and it looks like it maybe a combo guard that'll be interchangeable with JC. He's ready to contribute now but I just don't see how Hart gets minutes unless there's an injury - knock on wood.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:32 am    Post subject:

Don't see him contributing much this season barring injury. Expect him to play in the G league more than anything. There just won't be minutes to spare with Clarkson, Deng, Kuzma, Nance on the roster. That an KCP likely plays a fairly significant amount of minutes as is.

Ideally, minutes open up for him following the trade deadline with Clarkson being shipped out for a first rounder.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:24 pm    Post subject:

I think this team runs. I also think there's a lot of minutes to distribute between the 25-32 minute mark for a lot of guys.

When there's a season like this, where there's no pick on the line and the most optimistic outcome is just making the playoffs, there's no point to burning out legs.
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