John McEnroe pisses off Serena Williams + fans
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spflakers
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:00 pm    Post subject:

ani007 wrote:
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I'm not sure what he was supposed to say to the particular question he received that could have prevented people from getting mad at him. That she'd be ranked 345th? 20th?


That it would be difficult to compare players between the womens game and the mens he could even say the men's is more demanding. (greater physicality, more sets, etc.), though to promote a book i don't know why he would even discuss why men and women are physiologically different.....or consequently the vast difference in all sports between men and women

its like when you guys discuss the difficulties of comparing players of different eras or different positions in basketball.

he could say I would find it hard to compare serena to a rafa or a roger and this is why i call her the best women's tennis player of all time. i simply find the gameplay vastly different in the men's game.

i would take no offense to that and wouldn't have to read right wing articles with the understated subcontext of liberals are so deluded on equality that they deny the physiological differences between the sexes.....


On the other hand, just because you think McEnroe did nothing wrong doesn't make you Clay Travis or Milo Yiannopoulos! McEnroe himself has long advocated for issues that have huge importance in tennis, like equal pay, etc.

We're also all coming up with really good responses for McEnroe, things he could have said...days after it was said, while we have time to sit and type out great replies! This was a back-and-forth interview and his instant response was, again, pretty benign. A bit of surprise like, oh, you mean, like, best, best? Period? and then he threw out a random number that may or may not be totally accurate -- maybe she's top 400, maybe not even top 1500 -- but it wasn't any kind of insult about Serena's historical greatness and dominance. Again, if anyone should be upset, Steffi would have more right than anyone as she's apparently tossed to the side, simply because she didn't have Serena's longevity.
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ani007
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 8:58 pm    Post subject:

spflakers wrote:
ani007 wrote:
spflakers wrote:

I'm not sure what he was supposed to say to the particular question he received that could have prevented people from getting mad at him. That she'd be ranked 345th? 20th?


That it would be difficult to compare players between the womens game and the mens he could even say the men's is more demanding. (greater physicality, more sets, etc.), though to promote a book i don't know why he would even discuss why men and women are physiologically different.....or consequently the vast difference in all sports between men and women

its like when you guys discuss the difficulties of comparing players of different eras or different positions in basketball.

he could say I would find it hard to compare serena to a rafa or a roger and this is why i call her the best women's tennis player of all time. i simply find the gameplay vastly different in the men's game.

i would take no offense to that and wouldn't have to read right wing articles with the understated subcontext of liberals are so deluded on equality that they deny the physiological differences between the sexes.....


On the other hand, just because you think McEnroe did nothing wrong doesn't make you Clay Travis or Milo Yiannopoulos! McEnroe himself has long advocated for issues that have huge importance in tennis, like equal pay, etc.

We're also all coming up with really good responses for McEnroe, things he could have said...days after it was said, while we have time to sit and type out great replies! This was a back-and-forth interview and his instant response was, again, pretty benign. A bit of surprise like, oh, you mean, like, best, best? Period? and then he threw out a random number that may or may not be totally accurate -- maybe she's top 400, maybe not even top 1500 -- but it wasn't any kind of insult about Serena's historical greatness and dominance. Again, if anyone should be upset, Steffi would have more right than anyone as she's apparently tossed to the side, simply because she didn't have Serena's longevity.


i'll be 31 this year and my friend and i used to debate in high school if women tennis players should be paid equally due to the difference in how much less actual game they play. tennis is the longest by far i played a game over a decade. meh this issue is getting overblown i agree and reading the transcript its not that bad. i still don't think i'm monday quarterbacking when i say, as a member of the media he could be more articulate. hey serena is the greatest of all time but i can't compare her to a roger or rafa. the men's game is vastly different, more intense, and longer best of 5 sets. yadda yadda self deprecation i'm old man but got some moves yadda yadda

like i said i'm not outraged at mcenroe when compared to right wing media claiming this as an example of deluded liberal or feminists who don't know the physiological difference of the sexes when it comes to sports or in general. i was on ben shapiros site and i don't even know why i clicked on the article. it was just a breakdown on how women and men differ physically ffs
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:05 pm    Post subject:

Why did the interviewer ask him that stupid loaded question anyway?
You don't see people interviewing NBA players and comparing them to the WNBA. Nor do you hear the same about comparing PGA to LGPA golfers. But because women's tennis is the most high profile women's professional sport, the interviewer thought they could get Johnny Mac to put foot in mouth using gotcha journalism.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:10 pm    Post subject:

^^
For a long time, I wasn't sure if I thought the women should be paid equally to the men, at least at Grand Slam tournaments. But I am now firmly on the side of thinking that they should. Yes, the men play best 3-of-5 set matches at the Slams, and the women only play best 2-of-3. But the Slams are the only tournaments where this is the case; on the regular tour for both the men and the women, all of the matches are best 2-of-3. Yes, at the Slams it's different, but both the men and the women have the exposure at the Slams. Everyone's watching. I don't see empty seats for the women's final at the Slams. You might see empty seats in the earlier rounds, but that is the case for both the men and the women.

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that the men generally receive higher prize money at regular tour events, even though those are best 2-of-3 set matches. At the Slams, with the cameras on everything, I'm totally OK with equal prize money and believe that it would be in poor form for the USTA or Tennis Australia (to use 2 examples) to give more money to the men.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:13 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
I don't see empty seats for the women's final at the Slams. You might see empty seats in the earlier rounds, but that is the case for both the men and the women.


I don't know enough about the financial side of tennis to comment intelligently on this subject. Are ticket prices the same? How does overall revenue generation compare? How does TV viewership compare? I believe that there have been cases where the women's final got better ratings than the men's final, but a tournament is more than just the final. I have seen reports that the men's game generates considerably more revenue, but I don't know enough to evaluate those reports critically.

Anyway, if the women can convince tournament sponsors to pay them equally, more power to them. This is a financial issue masquerading as a fairness issue, as was the case with the women's soccer team. There is no legal or moral reason why men and women should be paid equally for activities that have disparate financial consequences. But if women can use the fairness argument to extract more money from the sponsors, good for them.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:16 am    Post subject:

There is a reason there are two tours, and it isn't to save the male players from Serena. We all know that, but the reporter wanted Mac to say it so we could fight about how impolite that fact is.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:04 am    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
kaoss128 wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
Underlying message: If you're a woman, you can be the best in the world at your job and some man will still try to talk (bleep) about you and devalue your accomplishments.

John McEnroe, once an (bleep), always an (bleep).


This sounds like someone who didn't see the video at all. Stop being bitter.


Thanks for the condescending, unsolicited advice and assessment of my emotional state.

Exhibit A for my above statement.


Except for your above statement was complete BS.
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67ShelbyGT
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 5:21 am    Post subject:

A simple no comment would've sufficed or generic praise. McEnroe has been in front of camera his whole life he should know media is always baiting and should've answered better. Then again, he's always been an immature crass prick. Nothing to see here, just another senile old dude trying to hold onto limelight.

On the topic of equal pay. It should always be 100% equal as long as the work is equal. If women's tennis brings in more revenue then they should be paid higher, and vice versa. Off topic, Ncaa players should get paid. These old ncaa suits are getting fat rich off the back of these athletes.

It always struck me as odd when someone has to brag about physical prowess... like what are you compensating for dude.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:30 am    Post subject:

How is calling someone who is a female tennis player, a female tennis player, an insult?
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Last edited by 22 on Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:35 am; edited 1 time in total
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ocho
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:31 am    Post subject:

The (bleep) people get worked up about.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:21 am    Post subject:

22 wrote:
How is calling someone who is a female tennis player, a female tennis player, an insult?


Don't you know by now that everything is insulting?
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VindicatioN
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:44 am    Post subject:

I'll even go so far as to say Serena isn't even the best FEMALE tennis player of all time. Steffi Graf was arguably more dominant. Don't believe me, look up the numbers.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:50 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
22 wrote:
How is calling someone who is a female tennis player, a female tennis player, an insult?


Don't you know by now that everything is insulting?
how dare you insult me by including that smiley face emoji!
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:07 am    Post subject:

VindicatioN wrote:
I'll even go so far as to say Serena isn't even the best FEMALE tennis player of all time. Steffi Graf was arguably more dominant. Don't believe me, look up the numbers.


This topic has been debated at length on this board. The arguments are similar to the usual Kobe vs. Whoever arguments. Some people fixate on the number of major wins, some people fixate on stats, and some people fixate on narratives (the Seles stabbing, etc.). My own pick is Navratilova. I don't think she would be dominant today, just because women's athletics in general have come a long way from her day. However, the same thing will be true for Serena in time.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:27 am    Post subject:

It's absolute truth
A player top 1000 in the world destroys a top 10 female

At the WTA tournaments
They usually have local players come in to practice with the pros
When the female pros come they practice with many guys who are not even ranked professional players

Just the serve makes a huge difference
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:39 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
VindicatioN wrote:
I'll even go so far as to say Serena isn't even the best FEMALE tennis player of all time. Steffi Graf was arguably more dominant. Don't believe me, look up the numbers.


This topic has been debated at length on this board. The arguments are similar to the usual Kobe vs. Whoever arguments. Some people fixate on the number of major wins, some people fixate on stats, and some people fixate on narratives (the Seles stabbing, etc.). My own pick is Navratilova. I don't think she would be dominant today, just because women's athletics in general have come a long way from her day. However, the same thing will be true for Serena in time.


Particularly if you include doubles, I think Martina is the right choice. I understand the case for her in just singles too (or even Chrissie, with her amazing consistency), though I'd go with Serena in singles.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:56 am    Post subject:

I just read a couple dozen angry internet posts that called McEnroe every name in the book and included arguments that Serena would crush Federer, Sampras, etc.

This was not an attack on women. It wasn't even an attack on Serena...yikes. Emotional PC bull (bleep) gone wild.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 9:06 am    Post subject:

DuncanIdaho wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Huey Lewis & The News wrote:
DuncanIdaho wrote:
He's not wrong though.


agree


Regardless, it was a stupid thing to say. Mac should have just said, "All I know is she would wipe the court with me", which she would.


Yeah -- he shouldn't have let himself get baited by the "journalist".


this is what the entire thing is about. Mac got baited and took the bait.. because he doesn't really care.. it happens all the time.. and social media goes ballistic.. it happens everyday with trump.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:12 am    Post subject:

22 wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
22 wrote:
How is calling someone who is a female tennis player, a female tennis player, an insult?


Don't you know by now that everything is insulting?
how dare you insult me by including that smiley face emoji!


Triggered! My bad
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:46 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
22 wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
22 wrote:
How is calling someone who is a female tennis player, a female tennis player, an insult?


Don't you know by now that everything is insulting?
how dare you insult me by including that smiley face emoji!


Triggered! My bad

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:59 am    Post subject:

kaoss128 wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
kaoss128 wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
Underlying message: If you're a woman, you can be the best in the world at your job and some man will still try to talk (bleep) about you and devalue your accomplishments.

John McEnroe, once an (bleep), always an (bleep).


This sounds like someone who didn't see the video at all. Stop being bitter.


Thanks for the condescending, unsolicited advice and assessment of my emotional state.

Exhibit A for my above statement.


Except for your above statement was complete BS.


People are free to express their opinions. And others are free to disagree. But instead of simply disagreeing when I expressed mine, you told me I was bitter and that my opinion was BS. I don't appreciate the personal insults, got it?
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999
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:41 pm    Post subject:

how often do we see the gender wars with male and female athletes. and when the competition does allow a female to perform in the male competition the female fails miserably.

for ex: Michelle Wie
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:51 pm    Post subject:

999 wrote:
how often do we see the gender wars with male and female athletes. and when the competition does allow a female to perform in the male competition the female fails miserably.

for ex: Michelle Wie


Conversely, Danika Patrick.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:06 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
999 wrote:
how often do we see the gender wars with male and female athletes. and when the competition does allow a female to perform in the male competition the female fails miserably.

for ex: Michelle Wie


Conversely, Danika Patrick.


I wouldn't say that is a good example considering she hasn't won since 2008, won only 1 race at the top level in her professional career and on the verge of losing her NASCAR ride because of her non-competitiveness. I do think that auto racing is one of those sports where the differences between males and females are minimized such that they can compete on a fairly level playing field. Even in the motorsports world, I think the field where woman racers have really excelled is in the NHRA, they have seen a couple of women winning championships there.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:44 pm    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
kaoss128 wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
kaoss128 wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
Underlying message: If you're a woman, you can be the best in the world at your job and some man will still try to talk (bleep) about you and devalue your accomplishments.

John McEnroe, once an (bleep), always an (bleep).


This sounds like someone who didn't see the video at all. Stop being bitter.


Thanks for the condescending, unsolicited advice and assessment of my emotional state.

Exhibit A for my above statement.


Except for your above statement was complete BS.


People are free to express their opinions. And others are free to disagree. But instead of simply disagreeing when I expressed mine, you told me I was bitter and that my opinion was BS. I don't appreciate the personal insults, got it?


Personal insult? You can say John McEnroe is a (bleep) but we're gonna draw the line at me saying you're bitter?
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