OFFICIAL BROOK LOPEZ THREAD!!
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:26 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Chronicle wrote:
I can easily see him being a 20m player based on last season. Let's see how he plays this season obviously but as it stands today it's more than 14m


Doubtful. Look at the cap space for teams next year. Plus the center position is not one where teams will spend 20m a year anymore except Boogie. He's also turning 30.


So we will be the only team willing to overpay? 3 years at $8 mil per wouldn't be overpaying for 24 mpg IMO.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:27 am    Post subject:

Look at this list.

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/contracts/center/type-veteran/

Highly doubtful a 30 year old Brook gets 20m a year. Teams either overpaid badly (Drummond) or spent on a 30 (or older) year old vet and regretted it (Moz, Noah). Only MGasol may be worth it but he's a multi year all star and is injury prone now.
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2 Max Scenarios:

-JC out for $0/Deng stretched = 57.6m in 2018 cap space
-Same as above and Jules renounced/traded for $0 = 69.9m in 2018 cap space

2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:28 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Chronicle wrote:
I can easily see him being a 20m player based on last season. Let's see how he plays this season obviously but as it stands today it's more than 14m


Doubtful. Look at the cap space for teams next year. Plus the center position is not one where teams will spend 20m a year anymore except Boogie. He's also turning 30.


So we will be the only team willing to overpay? 3 years at $8 mil per wouldn't be overpaying for 24 mpg IMO.


No. We have Bird rights. So 1 year at 9-11m and then in 2019 using Bird rights we can sign him over the cap at the appropriate price.
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2 Max Scenarios:

-JC out for $0/Deng stretched = 57.6m in 2018 cap space
-Same as above and Jules renounced/traded for $0 = 69.9m in 2018 cap space

2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:28 am    Post subject:

We would be gaming the salary cap process. For 1 year I think Brook wouldn't mind.
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2 Max Scenarios:

-JC out for $0/Deng stretched = 57.6m in 2018 cap space
-Same as above and Jules renounced/traded for $0 = 69.9m in 2018 cap space

2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:33 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Chronicle wrote:
I can easily see him being a 20m player based on last season. Let's see how he plays this season obviously but as it stands today it's more than 14m


Doubtful. Look at the cap space for teams next year. Plus the center position is not one where teams will spend 20m a year anymore except Boogie. He's also turning 30.


So we will be the only team willing to overpay? 3 years at $8 mil per wouldn't be overpaying for 24 mpg IMO.


No. We have Bird rights. So 1 year at 9-11m and then in 2019 using Bird rights we can sign him over the cap at the appropriate price.


The appropriate price for a one way center should be less than $10 mil per. Offensive only centers are relics. I think the Lakers are looking at this correctly, an ending contract.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:34 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Chronicle wrote:
I can easily see him being a 20m player based on last season. Let's see how he plays this season obviously but as it stands today it's more than 14m


Doubtful. Look at the cap space for teams next year. Plus the center position is not one where teams will spend 20m a year anymore except Boogie. He's also turning 30.


So we will be the only team willing to overpay? 3 years at $8 mil per wouldn't be overpaying for 24 mpg IMO.


No. We have Bird rights. So 1 year at 9-11m and then in 2019 using Bird rights we can sign him over the cap at the appropriate price.


The appropriate price for a one way center should be less than $10 mil per. Offensive only centers are relics.


Did you watch GT's video on Brook? He's not a horrible defender. I would say at worst average. He is a game changer offensively thanks to his ability to post and shoot 3s. Would give lbj and pg13 open lanes.
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2 Max Scenarios:

-JC out for $0/Deng stretched = 57.6m in 2018 cap space
-Same as above and Jules renounced/traded for $0 = 69.9m in 2018 cap space

2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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nash
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:55 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
nash wrote:

Thanks MJST

Do you know where we can make this comparisons?

I'm curious about other players.


http://nbamath.com/nba-play-type-data/


Thanks mate!
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:58 am    Post subject:

$8-9 mil per for a guy you have to hide in clutch time is the most you should pay. Lopez isn't a positive defensively, he is poor as a rebounder. He is current day Pau at best, worth a roster spot for 24 mpg. But a guy you bench at clutch time.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:00 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
$8-9 mil per for a guy you have to hide in clutch time is the most you should pay. Lopez isn't a positive defensively, he is poor as a rebounder. He is current day Pau at best, worth a roster spot for 24 mpg. But a guy you bench at clutch time.


Yet you supported Moz? Come on this is disingenuous and you clearly haven't watched GT's video. He is tiers above Moz and likely will be much cheaper than what Moz is making. What are the alternatives to put at center with a team trying to win? Zub (arguable worse on defense and def on offense). Bryant (totally unproven)?
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2 Max Scenarios:

-JC out for $0/Deng stretched = 57.6m in 2018 cap space
-Same as above and Jules renounced/traded for $0 = 69.9m in 2018 cap space

2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:04 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
$8-9 mil per for a guy you have to hide in clutch time is the most you should pay. Lopez isn't a positive defensively, he is poor as a rebounder. He is current day Pau at best, worth a roster spot for 24 mpg. But a guy you bench at clutch time.


So, looking beyond rebounding averages is how Brook Lopez's ability to box out leads to better overall team rebounding.

http://www1.vantagesports.com/Articles/archive_article_view/VU81HyYAACgAulQN


SAN ANTONIO SPURS: 9.6 DBLOCKOUTS PER 100 OPPS


BROOK LOPEZ: 21.58 DBLOCKOUTS PER 100 OPPS

That should open up some eyes.
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:04 am    Post subject:

Mozgov fits with the defensive center move that the NBA seems to be adjusting to. I will assume that Brooklyn will fare better defensively than we will. And he should be a $8-9 mil per player in today's game. But if the idea is that we overpaid once so let's do it again, so be it.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:06 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Mozgov fits with the defensive center move that the NBA seems to be adjusting to. I will assume that Brooklyn will fare better defensively than we will. And he should be a $8-9 mil per player in today's game. But if the idea is that we overpaid once so let's do it again, so be it.


Doesn't make sense to me, when Lopez is the better rim protector. Mozzy is the more physical post defender. Yet, the NBA is going away from general post play.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:08 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Mozgov fits with the defensive center move that the NBA seems to be adjusting to. I will assume that Brooklyn will fare better defensively than we will. And he should be a $8-9 mil per player in today's game. But if the idea is that we overpaid once so let's do it again, so be it.


At 17m a year heck no. If Moz had value we wouldn't need to trade a prospect like Dlo to get him off our hands.
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2 Max Scenarios:

-JC out for $0/Deng stretched = 57.6m in 2018 cap space
-Same as above and Jules renounced/traded for $0 = 69.9m in 2018 cap space

2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:08 am    Post subject:

Also, we would never say that the Brooklyn Nets are exactly a stacked team of rebounders, but where were they last year?

League: #1 in defensive rebounding.
#10 overall.

Literal, team rebounding.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BRK/2017.html
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:10 am    Post subject:

Lopez being a legit 3 point threat is a must with Lonzo. He will be an insanely awesome weapon for Lonzo to have on pick and pops. Will draw out centers to the 3 and open lanes for the rest of our guys. Cannot leave Brook open from the 3 point line.
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2 Max Scenarios:

-JC out for $0/Deng stretched = 57.6m in 2018 cap space
-Same as above and Jules renounced/traded for $0 = 69.9m in 2018 cap space

2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:10 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:

The appropriate price for a one way center should be less than $10 mil per. Offensive only centers are relics. I think the Lakers are looking at this correctly, an ending contract.


You may rethink your statement if you go back one page and look at the comparison stats between him and Whiteside MJST posted tomorrow and also spend some time watching the very good breakdown GT did about his strengths and weaknesses.

I like to work over stats and if you give a look at this comparison you are going to be aware that he doesn't have just a positive presence on defense on most situations, but he is the best defensive player of our projected starting frontcourt by a wide margin.

I will not post the offensive graph because there is no comparison at all, the difference is abysmal.

I would like to see how he plays with our young core, but a legit big that is a good rim protector, can shoot 3s and operate down low still has value in this league.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:12 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Mozgov fits with the defensive center move that the NBA seems to be adjusting to.


Stop.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:12 am    Post subject:

Lopez actually has to close out games. Randle and Nance would have to fight for that position or have stellar games to beat him out.

Range
Team rebounding
FT%
Rim protection

It's a pretty sizeable margin across the board. The Clippers wish they could close with Brook Lopez.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:13 am    Post subject:

Defensively, I think Lopez is good at what you could reasonably expect a guy like him to be good at. But he doesn't have value as a perimeter defender, and that's becoming increasingly problematic. In this hypothetical where we've gotten 2 max guys and are looking to win a title, the road's gonna go through Golden State.

Steph/Klay/Iggy/KD/Draymond

Who does Brook Lopez defend?
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:15 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Defensively, I think Lopez is good at what you could reasonably expect a guy like him to be good at. But he doesn't have value as a perimeter defender, and that's becoming increasingly problematic. In this hypothetical where we've gotten 2 max guys and are looking to win a title, the road's gonna go through Golden State.

Steph/Klay/Iggy/KD/Draymond

Who does Brook Lopez defend?


The bench. But he would be the starter against their nominal "Zaza". I'm not advocating maxing Brook; just manipulating cap space rules to keep him in 2018 and sign him over the cap in 2019 to a reasonable deal. No doubt we will close games with a small ball center. Even with Boogie who will cost 2-2.5 times more, same issues.
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-JC out for $0/Deng stretched = 57.6m in 2018 cap space
-Same as above and Jules renounced/traded for $0 = 69.9m in 2018 cap space

2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:17 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Also, we would never say that the Brooklyn Nets are exactly a stacked team of rebounders, but where were they last year?

League: #1 in defensive rebounding.
#10 overall.

Literal, team rebounding.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BRK/2017.html


This.

Raw numbers alone are a misleading indicator of player performance.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:19 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Defensively, I think Lopez is good at what you could reasonably expect a guy like him to be good at. But he doesn't have value as a perimeter defender, and that's becoming increasingly problematic. In this hypothetical where we've gotten 2 max guys and are looking to win a title, the road's gonna go through Golden State.

Steph/Klay/Iggy/KD/Draymond

Who does Brook Lopez defend?


Sadly, whoever is closest to the paint. Lopez isn't the most ideal solution, but better than most. His real value stands out with team defensive rebounding for one-and-out possessions.

But that's how GSW's death lineup gets you. Their possessions are already one-and-out because they're making shots.
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nash
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:23 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Defensively, I think Lopez is good at what you could reasonably expect a guy like him to be good at. But he doesn't have value as a perimeter defender, and that's becoming increasingly problematic. In this hypothetical where we've gotten 2 max guys and are looking to win a title, the road's gonna go through Golden State.

Steph/Klay/Iggy/KD/Draymond

Who does Brook Lopez defend?


I don't disagree, but then who do you use?

Deng was our only PF with somewhat decent defensive numbers followed by Nance, but none can defend the basket. Julius as rim protector is terrible (I'm talking just about the stats, it doesn't have anything to do with eye test) and is also our worst player contesting shooters by a wide margin.

Zubac can defend his man down low, but is a worst defender than Lopez at everything, his help defense is flat out terrible and he can't move his feet on the perimeter.

While Lopez is not the ideal player to close games, I don't like the options either.


Last edited by nash on Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:28 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:24 am    Post subject:

nash wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Also, we would never say that the Brooklyn Nets are exactly a stacked team of rebounders, but where were they last year?

League: #1 in defensive rebounding.
#10 overall.

Literal, team rebounding.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BRK/2017.html


This.

Raw numbers alone are a misleading indicator of player performance.


This is where looking for the correct statistic that correlates to team success is MUCH harder to find. Brook, double the total blockouts of the entire Spurs team/100 possessions = Nets #1 in defensive rebounding? Makes sense.

Unfortunately, the Nets were ranked #10 in total rebounding because they had issues getting extra possessions on the offensive glass, especially when they were towards the bottom in terms of turnovers, FG%, and 3ptFG%.

The Nets also ranked #1 in pace. Surprised me.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:25 am    Post subject:

Quote:

I don't disagree, but then who do you use?


Randle. Switchability. Size. Muscle. Rebounding. Forget the rim protection/lack of proven 3pt. range.
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