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Tanlentueux
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:26 am    Post subject:

Lopez, the modern big. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2XsQRVP554
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:48 am    Post subject:

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I don't disagree, but then who do you use?


Randle. Switchability. Size. Muscle. Rebounding. Forget the rim protection/lack of proven 3pt. range.


If we can switch efficiently the rim protection is really not a priority, but his 7.7% percentile defending shooters is abysmal, I don't know if I want this player against a lineup of 5 shooters.

His 17.7% against ISO is also flat out terrible and his defense through screens and guarding the PnR ball handler were also way bellow average.

I want to see how much he improved his defensive awareness and how much more active he can be with the kind of conditioning is expected from a pro because the last year version had a negative impact on defense on most areas and is not a player that I'd use to contain anyone.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:56 am    Post subject:

^He's gotta learn sometime. We're not after championship hopes next season.
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nash
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:15 am    Post subject:

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^He's gotta learn sometime. We're not after championship hopes next season.


He has to learn now, because for him it is a contract season and we don't have a lottery pick waiting for us, worse, Boston may have it

I would be happy for him if he can because he is an enjoyable kid and I really love when he goes full UFC mode striking defenders , but I still believe we are going to see Lopez closing most games unless a new option arises.


Last edited by nash on Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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USCandLakers
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:44 am    Post subject:

Tanlentueux wrote:
Lopez, the modern big. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2XsQRVP554


Very excited to see what he can do with Zo.
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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:53 am    Post subject:

nash wrote:
Quote:
^He's gotta learn sometime. We're not after championship hopes next season.


He has to learn now, because for him it is a contract season and we don't have a lottery pick waiting for us, worst, Boston may have it

I would be happy for him if he can because he is an enjoyable kid and I really love when he goes full UFC mode striking defenders , but I still believe we are going to see Lopez closing most games unless a new option arises.


Then play him. Simple as that.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:58 am    Post subject:

USCandLakers wrote:
Tanlentueux wrote:
Lopez, the modern big. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2XsQRVP554


Very excited to see what he can do with Zo.


Those two seem made for each other. Even it's only for one season you really have to credit Magic and Pelinka for trying to make it a smooth transition to the pros for Lonzo. Brook on offense, and KCP on defense.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:59 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
nash wrote:
Quote:
^He's gotta learn sometime. We're not after championship hopes next season.


He has to learn now, because for him it is a contract season and we don't have a lottery pick waiting for us, worst, Boston may have it

I would be happy for him if he can because he is an enjoyable kid and I really love when he goes full UFC mode striking defenders , but I still believe we are going to see Lopez closing most games unless a new option arises.


Then play him. Simple as that.


At the 5 instead of your best scorer in Lopez?
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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:04 am    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
nash wrote:
Quote:
^He's gotta learn sometime. We're not after championship hopes next season.


He has to learn now, because for him it is a contract season and we don't have a lottery pick waiting for us, worst, Boston may have it

I would be happy for him if he can because he is an enjoyable kid and I really love when he goes full UFC mode striking defenders , but I still believe we are going to see Lopez closing most games unless a new option arises.


Then play him. Simple as that.


At the 5 instead of your best scorer in Lopez?


Against the GSW death lineup? Yeah.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:18 am    Post subject:

Against the GSW death lineup we're not beating them by trying to run with them or out-smallball them. How are you gonna Out Fred-Astaire, Fred Astaire? You don't. Cleveland tried, got spanked in 5.


Best way to beat Golden State's 'death lineup' is to slow them down, the way you slow them down is in the half court and through the post, forcing them to play a half court game which they don't want to do. Where's Lopez's weakness? The in between game between the rim and the 3 point line, essentially from mid.

Although I'm sure Golden State settling for jumpers from mid instead of from three is the lesser of two evils in that scenario.

With their death lineup they want to run, get out on transition and get open threes before the defense has a chance to set. If the alternative to that is forcing them into a half court game where the shot they do take is having to settle from mid then I'll take that.

If Steph comes off a screen, Lopez will be waiting at the rim and KCP will be trailing him, Steph isn't going to try to finish over Lopez, he's going to pull up from mid. I'll take that over a three.

That and Lopez is a solid defensive rebounder, and he'll get plenty more against that lineup.

Yes, Lopez's weakness defensively is the in between area, where a guard pulls from mid, or if he comes out too far tries to go past.

But against the death lineup the shot you wanting them to take is

1) in the half court

2) a mid range shot they settle for off the pick and roll


Because we've slowed the offense they want to run, and we get to keep our big out there, whom they can't guard on the other end. Lopez in that scenario could take Draymond on the block and would force double teams, which would leave us open on the perimeter.

Because Golden State doesn't want to play that half court game when they're running it small ball. But again, if they are running the doom lineup and they have to settle for middies then I'll take that.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:20 am    Post subject:

Hypothetical: Put Lopez instead of Pau on the Lakers 2008-2010 teams, do they still have the same success?
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:26 am    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
Hypothetical: Put Lopez instead of Pau on the Lakers 2008-2010 teams, do they still have the same success?

I don't think so, but I definitely see the comparisons. I haven't seen a big as good at passing as Pau since Jokic really, Pau was elite in making smart reads and taking good shots. Brook has definitely proved to be a high IQ player, but he isn't nearly the rebounder Pau was. He is perhaps a little more athletic so I'll give him that.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:35 am    Post subject:

I'm more interested in how we match up with them the following year if Plan A works out. This year is definitely an audition for who gets to keep their job if things all work out somehow. Throw Randle out there, give Lopez a shot, see if Nance or Kuzma can hang. Audition time.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:38 am    Post subject:

trablos wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
Hypothetical: Put Lopez instead of Pau on the Lakers 2008-2010 teams, do they still have the same success?

I don't think so, but I definitely see the comparisons. I haven't seen a big as good at passing as Pau since Jokic really, Pau was elite in making smart reads and taking good shots. Brook has definitely proved to be a high IQ player, but he isn't nearly the rebounder Pau was. He is perhaps a little more athletic so I'll give him that.


As far as I see it:

Pau has passing and fundamentals as a advantage, but Lopez has slightly better offense, and is a better athlete... both are good rim protectors, Pau was amazing in our 3 straight finals, I think Lopez has been a victim of playing on mediocre teams, I think if he was playing with a Prime Kobe we would see a lot of his impact as a basketball player, if he leads us to 40-45 wins next year.. then IMO I think we should try bringing him back next year. He's been playing with a bunch of washed up vets in his Nets career I would like to see him finally playing with a relevant team.
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governator
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:40 am    Post subject:

Did you know that in addition to averaging over 20 points per game while leading all starting centers in made 3s, Lopez allowed a lower field goal percentage at the rim than noted defensive menace Hassan Whiteside?
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:47 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
Did you know that in addition to averaging over 20 points per game while leading all starting centers in made 3s, Lopez allowed a lower field goal percentage at the rim than noted defensive menace Hassan Whiteside?


So we probably might have ended up going to the finals with Lopez in 2008-2010 instead of Pau, I think some people are highly underestimating Lopez as a player, he can get you 30-35pts if he wanted to while Pau wasn't like that.
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kobe_4_mvp
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:57 am    Post subject:

i think you're highly underestimating pau.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:00 am    Post subject:

kobe_4_mvp wrote:
i think you're highly underestimating pau.


I think what I'm trying to suggest is that Lopez impact is overlooked cause he never played with a talented team, just a bunch of washed up vets and a bunch of role players.... I would like to see him in a spotlight were he's playing with a relevant team, I think he's under appreciated cause of his winning track record.
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Judah
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:12 am    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
governator wrote:
Did you know that in addition to averaging over 20 points per game while leading all starting centers in made 3s, Lopez allowed a lower field goal percentage at the rim than noted defensive menace Hassan Whiteside?


So we probably might have ended up going to the finals with Lopez in 2008-2010 instead of Pau, I think some people are highly underestimating Lopez as a player, he can get you 30-35pts if he wanted to while Pau wasn't like that.

I get that you're searching for reasons to be optimistic and excited about the upcoming season, but you've officially gone too far, my friend. Lopez is good, but Pau was great during the title run. The only big who was more mobile than Pau was his own teammate, Odom. The two of them had the versatility of guards with their ability to run the floor and pass the ball. Lopez is an awful passer compared to Pau and he never could've ran the two-man break with Odom. He doesn't have good foot speed. It was Gasol's excellent foot speed that made it possible for he and Bynum to play together despite both being seven footers. Lopez and Bynum together would've been a disaster. It wouldn't have even been an option.

Notice that I'm not doing the easy thing and just flaming you like others do. You search for optimism and go a little overboard at times, but that's not a flammable offense. You're a good guy. Stay level-headed, though. You don't have to chop Pau down just to praise Lopez. Dial it back, bro.
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Last edited by Judah on Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:21 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:16 am    Post subject:

Brooks Lopez is good but he is no Pau Gasol
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:43 am    Post subject:

Small ball has proved his efficiency, but small ball <> undersized ball.

You don't go small to give a size advantage to the other team, you go small when you have players that can defend both perimeter and the post, pass the ball and shoot taking a traditional big without mobility from the paint opening lanes or shooting an uncontested jump shot.

Julius is not the prototype small ball center because he can't shoot, is one of the worst spot up defenders of the entire league while is not a good man defender either to stop someone on switches. Of course there are a few highlights when he switches with success containing perimeter players, but it is not the rule, it is just like looking at KCP impressive defensive highlights without taking into account his average overall defensive stats.

If Lopez is not a staple of defender, his most glaring weakness here is in ISO situations, he is decent or good in most of the other situations.

Let's see it next season, we know Luke is adept of finishing games playing small, I just don't know if we have the kind of player needed to use this strategy, or if they are the best option we have.

Among Lopez, Julius, Nance, Deng and maybe Kuzma, we have a lot of options.
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nash
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:46 am    Post subject:

pio2u wrote:
Brooks Lopez is good but he is no Pau Gasol


He is our best center since Pau's decline, but for a few seasons Pau was able to match Tim Duncan in production, he was a great player and had a fantastic chemistry with Kobe and also Odom, we still have to see how Lopez performs here.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:52 am    Post subject:

Quote:

Best way to beat Golden State's 'death lineup' is to slow them down, the way you slow them down is in the half court and through the post, forcing them to play a half court game which they don't want to do. Where's Lopez's weakness? The in between game between the rim and the 3 point line, essentially from mid.


I thought it was really obvious why teams were going away from post play. So why on earth reinstate it?
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:00 pm    Post subject:

Judah wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
governator wrote:
Did you know that in addition to averaging over 20 points per game while leading all starting centers in made 3s, Lopez allowed a lower field goal percentage at the rim than noted defensive menace Hassan Whiteside?


So we probably might have ended up going to the finals with Lopez in 2008-2010 instead of Pau, I think some people are highly underestimating Lopez as a player, he can get you 30-35pts if he wanted to while Pau wasn't like that.

I get that you're searching for reasons to be optimistic and excited about the upcoming season, but you've officially gone too far, my friend. Lopez is good, but Pau was great during the title run. The only big who was more mobile than Pau was his own teammate, Odom. The two of them had the versatility of guards with their ability to run the floor and pass the ball. Lopez is an awful passer compared to Pau and he never could've ran the two-man break with Odom. He doesn't have good foot speed. It was Gasol's excellent foot speed that made it possible for he and Bynum to play together despite both being seven footers. Lopez and Bynum together would've been a disaster. It wouldn't have even been an option.

Notice that I'm not doing the easy thing and just flaming you like others do. You search for optimism and go a little overboard at times, but that's not a flammable offense. You're a good guy. Stay level-headed, though. You don't have to chop Pau down just to praise Lopez. Dial it back, bro.


Actually I appreciate both as players, I think my excitement to having another star big on our roster is just a twilight thing considering the crappy players like Hubert/Boozer/Moz and others in recent years that we had to endore.. in reality both Lopez and Pau are good players and it's good to see us having another reliable big.
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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:03 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
But against the death lineup the shot you wanting them to take is

1) in the half court

2) a mid range shot they settle for off the pick and roll


Death lineup actually takes advantage of Lopez's footspeed to 3 and does pick and pop. GSW doesn't automatically default to that midrange game, unless it's Curry.

And if it's Curry or KD as PnP ball-handler, you lose.
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