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activeverb
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 Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| textbook wrote: | | He was good for Miami playing the 4 just a season ago. Get him some time at the 4 this year and he might surprise a lot of people. I know he's entered léame brown status but remember this guy was a multiple all star and good player for Miami. |
The problem is these days he is best suited to being a 4 in a slow offense. (Miami had the 5th slowest pace, and during his all-star years Chicago had the second and third slowest offense). The fast pace we are going to play isn't really suited to him. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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It would fit in Brooklyn though...
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oldlakerfan
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| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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It is not Deng fault that Jim and Mitch gave him such a stupid contract. Everyone knew right away that the Deng and Moz contracts were horrible.
Deng can play some defense, he can run the floor and he can can play the 3 or 4 spot. His outside shot over his career was slightly below average. If does come in with a chip on his shoulder he would see to be a decent fit scheme wise for this team.
I would love it if we could rebuild his trade value due to him becoming a solid contributor. As I write this it seems like total insanity but I think back to Nick Young and think anything is possible. Heck I even ended up liking Nick Young last year. So best case is he contributes. If he were to contribute at the level of his past he is better than Nance and his past performance was on par with Randles with probably better defense.
I don't really think there is enough lipstick to pretty Deng up but he could surprise us and come in a win a spot in the rotation. That is what would be best. Not sure how long you can stretch the last 2 years but if it is over 4 years we are still looking at 8.5m per year against cap. It guess that would be better than giving up a lot to trade him.
Kuzma is really looking good can you package him with Deng? Is that too much? We will have options but none of them are very good. |
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markjay
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| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| oldlakerfan wrote: | It is not Deng fault that Jim and Mitch gave him such a stupid contract. Everyone knew right away that the Deng and Moz contracts were horrible.
Deng can play some defense, he can run the floor and he can can play the 3 or 4 spot. His outside shot over his career was slightly below average. If does come in with a chip on his shoulder he would see to be a decent fit scheme wise for this team.
I would love it if we could rebuild his trade value due to him becoming a solid contributor. As I write this it seems like total insanity but I think back to Nick Young and think anything is possible. Heck I even ended up liking Nick Young last year. So best case is he contributes. If he were to contribute at the level of his past he is better than Nance and his past performance was on par with Randles with probably better defense.
I don't really think there is enough lipstick to pretty Deng up but he could surprise us and come in a win a spot in the rotation. That is what would be best. Not sure how long you can stretch the last 2 years but if it is over 4 years we are still looking at 8.5m per year against cap. It guess that would be better than giving up a lot to trade him.
Kuzma is really looking good can you package him with Deng? Is that too much? We will have options but none of them are very good. |
Yikes. I would hate to give up Kuzma with Deng. At this point I would rather give up Randall, Nance, or Zubac--or perhaps even two of them. |
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bucketsandbags
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| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Deng/Clarkson for Wade. Do it Mitch! |
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chantruong
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| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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If Mitch and Jim wanted to mail it in for 3 or 4 years, I wish they would have taken a bad contract with an asset attached like what Brooklyn did  |
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kevin61
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| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| oldlakerfan wrote: | It is not Deng fault that Jim and Mitch gave him such a stupid contract. Everyone knew right away that the Deng and Moz contracts were horrible.
Deng can play some defense, he can run the floor and he can can play the 3 or 4 spot. His outside shot over his career was slightly below average. If does come in with a chip on his shoulder he would see to be a decent fit scheme wise for this team.
I would love it if we could rebuild his trade value due to him becoming a solid contributor. As I write this it seems like total insanity but I think back to Nick Young and think anything is possible. Heck I even ended up liking Nick Young last year. So best case is he contributes. If he were to contribute at the level of his past he is better than Nance and his past performance was on par with Randles with probably better defense.
I don't really think there is enough lipstick to pretty Deng up but he could surprise us and come in a win a spot in the rotation. That is what would be best. Not sure how long you can stretch the last 2 years but if it is over 4 years we are still looking at 8.5m per year against cap. It guess that would be better than giving up a lot to trade him.
Kuzma is really looking good can you package him with Deng? Is that too much? We will have options but none of them are very good. |
I don't see much hope for the guy as a contributor. He's always been a starter and I'd rather see the minutes go to the young guys where there is a logjam already. He'll eventually be stretched. |
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kevin61
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| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| chantruong wrote: | | If Mitch and Jim wanted to mail it in for 3 or 4 years, I wish they would have taken a bad contract with an asset attached like what Brooklyn did |
Jim and Mitch started this monstrosity. |
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kevin61
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| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| bucketsandbags wrote: | | Deng/Clarkson for Wade. Do it Mitch! |
Why would Chicago trade an expiring deal for 2 contracts that run for the next three years at 30mil a year ? If Clarkson is worth that much, the Lakers would keep him and stretch Deng. When proposing deals, you've gotta take into account that the other teams aren't fools. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| markjay wrote: | | oldlakerfan wrote: | It is not Deng fault that Jim and Mitch gave him such a stupid contract. Everyone knew right away that the Deng and Moz contracts were horrible.
Deng can play some defense, he can run the floor and he can can play the 3 or 4 spot. His outside shot over his career was slightly below average. If does come in with a chip on his shoulder he would see to be a decent fit scheme wise for this team.
I would love it if we could rebuild his trade value due to him becoming a solid contributor. As I write this it seems like total insanity but I think back to Nick Young and think anything is possible. Heck I even ended up liking Nick Young last year. So best case is he contributes. If he were to contribute at the level of his past he is better than Nance and his past performance was on par with Randles with probably better defense.
I don't really think there is enough lipstick to pretty Deng up but he could surprise us and come in a win a spot in the rotation. That is what would be best. Not sure how long you can stretch the last 2 years but if it is over 4 years we are still looking at 8.5m per year against cap. It guess that would be better than giving up a lot to trade him.
Kuzma is really looking good can you package him with Deng? Is that too much? We will have options but none of them are very good. |
Yikes. I would hate to give up Kuzma with Deng. At this point I would rather give up Randall, Nance, or Zubac--or perhaps even two of them. |
I doubt Kuzma has much value right now. Teams aren't going to go gaga over a 29th pick just because he did well in summer league. I mean, it took Russell to move Mozgov |
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DShotMaker1824
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| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | markjay wrote: | | oldlakerfan wrote: | It is not Deng fault that Jim and Mitch gave him such a stupid contract. Everyone knew right away that the Deng and Moz contracts were horrible.
Deng can play some defense, he can run the floor and he can can play the 3 or 4 spot. His outside shot over his career was slightly below average. If does come in with a chip on his shoulder he would see to be a decent fit scheme wise for this team.
I would love it if we could rebuild his trade value due to him becoming a solid contributor. As I write this it seems like total insanity but I think back to Nick Young and think anything is possible. Heck I even ended up liking Nick Young last year. So best case is he contributes. If he were to contribute at the level of his past he is better than Nance and his past performance was on par with Randles with probably better defense.
I don't really think there is enough lipstick to pretty Deng up but he could surprise us and come in a win a spot in the rotation. That is what would be best. Not sure how long you can stretch the last 2 years but if it is over 4 years we are still looking at 8.5m per year against cap. It guess that would be better than giving up a lot to trade him.
Kuzma is really looking good can you package him with Deng? Is that too much? We will have options but none of them are very good. |
Yikes. I would hate to give up Kuzma with Deng. At this point I would rather give up Randall, Nance, or Zubac--or perhaps even two of them. |
I doubt Kuzma has much value right now. Teams aren't going to go gaga over a 29th pick just because he did well in summer league. I mean, it took Russell to move Mozgov |
You're overvaluing Russell.
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activeverb
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| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| diando wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | markjay wrote: | | oldlakerfan wrote: | It is not Deng fault that Jim and Mitch gave him such a stupid contract. Everyone knew right away that the Deng and Moz contracts were horrible.
Deng can play some defense, he can run the floor and he can can play the 3 or 4 spot. His outside shot over his career was slightly below average. If does come in with a chip on his shoulder he would see to be a decent fit scheme wise for this team.
I would love it if we could rebuild his trade value due to him becoming a solid contributor. As I write this it seems like total insanity but I think back to Nick Young and think anything is possible. Heck I even ended up liking Nick Young last year. So best case is he contributes. If he were to contribute at the level of his past he is better than Nance and his past performance was on par with Randles with probably better defense.
I don't really think there is enough lipstick to pretty Deng up but he could surprise us and come in a win a spot in the rotation. That is what would be best. Not sure how long you can stretch the last 2 years but if it is over 4 years we are still looking at 8.5m per year against cap. It guess that would be better than giving up a lot to trade him.
Kuzma is really looking good can you package him with Deng? Is that too much? We will have options but none of them are very good. |
Yikes. I would hate to give up Kuzma with Deng. At this point I would rather give up Randall, Nance, or Zubac--or perhaps even two of them. |
I doubt Kuzma has much value right now. Teams aren't going to go gaga over a 29th pick just because he did well in summer league. I mean, it took Russell to move Mozgov |
You're overvaluing Russell. |
I don't think so. Russell is a #2 pick, who averaged 16 ppg last year and is 21 years old. He may not become a star but he's a legitimate NBA starter.
Kuzma is a #27 who is a year older than Russell. He's just another guy fighting for any kind of playing time. He had a great summer league, but there are a lot of guys working in 7-11 who had a great summer league. |
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cal1piggy
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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Is there any analysis for trading Deng's contract for other bad (but less bad) contracts?
For example, Pelicans' Omer Asik's 10M-12M/yr 3 year contract.
He is essentially useless while Deng can still be useful.
That may require less assets to be thrown in.
If you stretch Asik's contract after 2017-2018 season - it would cost ~4.5M/yr instead of $7M/yr for Deng.
Beyond Asik, you have Milwaukee's Dellavedova's 9.5M/yr contract for 3 years. If doable, stretching would cost $4M/yr
I presume we would need to match salaries, so some 1 year contracts such as Spencer Hawes for Milwakee will need to be included.
Obviously you have Dwayne Wade as another option.
Not sure who else there is out there. |
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kevin61
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| If they can trade him, the time is now. When the season begins and he never sees the floor, he'll be viewed by all as what we know him to be, a washed up old guy with a massive contract. I'm not very optimistic about trading him even with another asset. The contract is just too big and too long. We'll just end up stretching him and saving 11 of his 18mil cap hit. |
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markjay
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| cal1piggy wrote: | Is there any analysis for trading Deng's contract for other bad (but less bad) contracts?
For example, Pelicans' Omer Asik's 10M-12M/yr 3 year contract.
He is essentially useless while Deng can still be useful.
That may require less assets to be thrown in.
If you stretch Asik's contract after 2017-2018 season - it would cost ~4.5M/yr instead of $7M/yr for Deng.
Beyond Asik, you have Milwaukee's Dellavedova's 9.5M/yr contract for 3 years. If doable, stretching would cost $4M/yr
I presume we would need to match salaries, so some 1 year contracts such as Spencer Hawes for Milwakee will need to be included.
Obviously you have Dwayne Wade as another option.
Not sure who else there is out there. |
I wouldn't trade Kuzma for DLo straight up.
Last edited by markjay on Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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JUST-MING
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| kevin61 wrote: | | bucketsandbags wrote: | | Deng/Clarkson for Wade. Do it Mitch! |
Why would Chicago trade an expiring deal for 2 contracts that run for the next three years at 30mil a year ? If Clarkson is worth that much, the Lakers would keep him and stretch Deng. When proposing deals, you've gotta take into account that the other teams aren't fools. |
Have you seen their depth chart?
http://www.basketballinsiders.com/chicago-bulls-team-salary/
Deng could start at either forward. Clarkson could start at either guard. |
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AC Green's V-Card
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| JUST-MING wrote: | | kevin61 wrote: | | bucketsandbags wrote: | | Deng/Clarkson for Wade. Do it Mitch! |
Why would Chicago trade an expiring deal for 2 contracts that run for the next three years at 30mil a year ? If Clarkson is worth that much, the Lakers would keep him and stretch Deng. When proposing deals, you've gotta take into account that the other teams aren't fools. |
Have you seen their depth chart?
http://www.basketballinsiders.com/chicago-bulls-team-salary/
Deng could start at either forward. Clarkson could start at either guard. |
That's only an issue if they're trying to compete. They are in complete re-build mode, and they're giving those guard/forward minutes to their newly acquired players (Lavine, Dunn, Markkanen). They'd be fools to saddle themselves with big contracts for no reason. Next summer, they'll have space to either sign a free agent or absorb a bad deal + first rounder like Brooklyn. |
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numero-ocho
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| JUST-MING wrote: | | kevin61 wrote: | | bucketsandbags wrote: | | Deng/Clarkson for Wade. Do it Mitch! |
Why would Chicago trade an expiring deal for 2 contracts that run for the next three years at 30mil a year ? If Clarkson is worth that much, the Lakers would keep him and stretch Deng. When proposing deals, you've gotta take into account that the other teams aren't fools. |
Have you seen their depth chart?
http://www.basketballinsiders.com/chicago-bulls-team-salary/
Deng could start at either forward. Clarkson could start at either guard. |
The Bulls used the #7 pick on Markaanen over talented players like DSJ and Zach Collins so they are almost surely going to give him the opportunity to start at one of the forward positions. Even if it were true that Deng is better than their other forwards he's not $54 million better, especially for a team that will be in full tank mode by Jan 1st and looking to continue rebuilding next summer.
The only way we move Deng is by giving up a valuable asset like we did with Moz.
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MJST
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kevin61
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| AC Green's V-Card wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | kevin61 wrote: | | bucketsandbags wrote: | | Deng/Clarkson for Wade. Do it Mitch! |
Why would Chicago trade an expiring deal for 2 contracts that run for the next three years at 30mil a year ? If Clarkson is worth that much, the Lakers would keep him and stretch Deng. When proposing deals, you've gotta take into account that the other teams aren't fools. |
Have you seen their depth chart?
http://www.basketballinsiders.com/chicago-bulls-team-salary/
Deng could start at either forward. Clarkson could start at either guard. |
That's only an issue if they're trying to compete. They are in complete re-build mode, and they're giving those guard/forward minutes to their newly acquired players (Lavine, Dunn, Markkanen). They'd be fools to saddle themselves with big contracts for no reason. Next summer, they'll have space to either sign a free agent or absorb a bad deal + first rounder like Brooklyn. |
The problem with all these scenario's is that they'd be trading for a contract that runs through 2020. I don't care what the depth chart looks like today, that's not a smart move. |
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cal1piggy
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| kevin61 wrote: | | AC Green's V-Card wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | kevin61 wrote: | | bucketsandbags wrote: | | Deng/Clarkson for Wade. Do it Mitch! |
Why would Chicago trade an expiring deal for 2 contracts that run for the next three years at 30mil a year ? If Clarkson is worth that much, the Lakers would keep him and stretch Deng. When proposing deals, you've gotta take into account that the other teams aren't fools. |
Have you seen their depth chart?
http://www.basketballinsiders.com/chicago-bulls-team-salary/
Deng could start at either forward. Clarkson could start at either guard. |
That's only an issue if they're trying to compete. They are in complete re-build mode, and they're giving those guard/forward minutes to their newly acquired players (Lavine, Dunn, Markkanen). They'd be fools to saddle themselves with big contracts for no reason. Next summer, they'll have space to either sign a free agent or absorb a bad deal + first rounder like Brooklyn. |
The problem with all these scenario's is that they'd be trading for a contract that runs through 2020. I don't care what the depth chart looks like today, that's not a smart move. |
That is why I wanted to see if Deng could be traded for a 2-year or 3-year remaining years.
For example, Pelicans' Omer Asik's 10M-12M/yr 3 year remaining, just like Deng in years.
Asik is essentially useless while Deng can still be useful.
That may require less assets to be thrown in.
If you stretch Asik's contract after 2017-2018 season - it would cost ~4.5M/yr instead of $7M/yr for Deng.
That could be important as we are a couple million short if we want Lebron and PG while keeping Julius.
Beyond Asik, you have Milwaukee's Dellavedova's 9.5M/yr contract for 3 years. If doable, stretching would cost $4M/yr
I presume we would need to match salaries, so some 1 year contracts such as Spencer Hawes for Milwakee will need to be included.
Obviously you have Dwayne Wade as another option.
Not sure who else there is out there. |
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matrixskillz
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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I thought he was still stretching.
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LakerLanny
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| bucketsandbags wrote: | | Deng/Clarkson for Wade. Do it Mitch! |
Seems like the most reasonable thing for all concerned.
Wade can have his wife enjoy her life here in Hollywood and further recruit LeBron here although Maglinka have already nailed that down yes?
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LakerLanny
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: |
I don't think so. Russell is a #2 pick, who averaged 16 ppg last year and is 21 years old. He may not become a star but he's a legitimate NBA starter.
Kuzma is a #27 who is a year older than Russell. He's just another guy fighting for any kind of playing time. He had a great summer league, but there are a lot of guys working in 7-11 who had a great summer league. |
I could be wrong, but I like Kuzma way better than Russell now and going forward.
Comparing contract numbers going forward? Than it is even more of a landslide towards Kuzma.
Most GMs in the NBA would not trade Kuzma for DLO straight up right now, trust me.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks, I was wondering if he was healthy.
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