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sodapoppenski
Star Player
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 7364
Location: Washington, DC
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 Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 10:54 pm Post subject: Re: Still Hating Odom? |
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| Mr. Mojo Risin wrote: | | sodapoppenski wrote: | | Mr. Mojo Risin wrote: | | sodapoppenski wrote: | | Mr. Mojo Risin wrote: | | sodapoppenski wrote: | | sodapoppenski wrote: | | Mr. Mojo Risin wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | Mr. Mojo Risin wrote: | | 17 points, 9 rebounds, 8 Assists. Near triple double |
Yep, still hatin'. Let's see if he can put 3 good games in a row ... or even 2. |
This is his 4th solid game in a row. This one even better. |
Lamar's averages for the last 3-games prior to tonight's win vs. Jazz...
10.0 pts (10-of-31 shooting)
8.7 rebs
5.3 ast
On the season he averages:
13.8 pts
9.4 rebs
5.3 ast
| Quote: | | This is his 4th solid game in a row. |
If by solid you mean "average" then I'd agree.
But tonight he played better than average.
So it can't be the 4th in a row of anything, average or great.
Can't we stop using every freaking game as an excuse to support one
side of the endless LO battle? |
Page bump  |
Well Kobe's percentage isn't always high, but when he scores a lot, he's praised. That's nearly averaging a double double which he also averages on the season, which means he would be missed if traded. You've seen the games where he didn't play.... |
1.) Kobe's not praised when he shoots 28% over 3-games.
2.) I never said Lamar isn't valuable to us. I've always maintained that
he can be a great 3rd-option for us. He's just not the answer as a 2nd
guy in the big picture.
3.) I'm just tired of all these threads being started with SO little reason.
It really is only one good game by Odom when you look at the last
three. It's such a tiny, tiny reason to start acting like "hey he's finally
gonna put it together!!!" and start an entire thread on that.
Lamar's Change in Stats This Year vs. his Rookie Year:
- 2.8 pts
+1.5 reb
+1.2 ast
- 0.4 blk
- 0.3 stl
My point is, and always has been, just that those of us who expected him
to break out into some better player when he got here were expecting too
much.
The guy is who he's been since he got here. He's not getting better.
If you accepted that when he first came, then you're where I am which
is not all that surprised, but also expectedly not that impressed.
It's one game. |
averaging nearly a double double is above average
and he's been playing "solid" in the last 4 games being hurt. By "solid" I mean good, not great. Compared to anyone but Kobe on the team, his game is great. |
Dude give me a break.
We're talking about Odom here.
With any such player, comparing their season average[b] to how they
did is a good way to explain whether they had a "good game," or an
"average game" by their own standards and capabilities.
Again, in case you missed it...
[b]Lamar's averages for the last 3-games prior to tonight's win vs. Jazz...
10.0 pts (10-of-31 shooting)
8.7 rebs
5.3 ast
On the season he averages:
13.8 pts
9.4 rebs
5.3 ast
I'm not saying that's bad for a player in general.
But he averaged 4 points or so below his average the last 3 games.
He averaged fewer boards than his season average.
His assists are exactly his season average.
And his FG% was roughly 28% on that span.
Feel free to go on thinking that's a "good 3 games from Lamar," but pass
me whatever you're smoking when you're done. |
I said "solid" and while injured. Tonight was more than solid. |
Really?
| Quote: | Grizzlies game he had 8 points, 7 rebounds, 7 assists. That's a good all around game.
Rockets game, he had 8 points, 13 rebounds, 2 assists. Another good game.
Mavericks game, he had 14 points, 6 rebounds, 7 assists. Again, good. |
Maybe I need a new prescription, but that looks like "good," "good," and
last of all, "good" from you.
Last I checked "good" meant above average. |
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THE_SHOES
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 29556
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Fan0Bynum17 wrote: | | Mr. Mojo Risin wrote: | | THE_SHOES wrote: | | sodapoppenski wrote: | | Hector the Pup wrote: | | This kind of thread comes up every 3 or so games. |
True about it being every 3 games or so.
But it's every 3 games or so 10 threads come out.
It's getting just a tiny bit old  |
Ah Soda, you may have gotten that reversed... When Odom has a good game he may get a couple of positive threads at the very most...
When he has any problems the threads will go double digit and everyday between till the following game those same threads will be supported by double digit trade threads... |
No kidding. I'm tired of seeing all the "Trade Odom" threads. |
why? why are you so blindly loyal to him? you can't see this team is going nowhere with him as a second option? |
For one thing this team needs a potent post prescence to be the second option. LO can give you the intangibles that will take you over the top. This is why some of us don't condemn LO... We are looking at a broader picture. Ideally you add an inside game and, guys like LO and Kobe in combination with guys like Smush, Cook, and George and you are smok'n. Odom is invaluable because he is looking for the opening at all times. To much in fact. If Mihm continues to improve as he has been. The Lakers are going to surprise in the second half...
_________________
"According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.." |
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Runway8
Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 22856
Location: La Jolla, San Diego
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 10:59 pm Post subject: Re: Still Hating Odom? |
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| Mr. Mojo Risin wrote: | | 17 points, 9 rebounds, 8 Assists. Near triple double |
Talk to me when he strings together 2 or 3 good games. 1 good game doesn't erase a whole seasons worth of frustrations with this guy who makes idiotic crunch time decisions. We're 26 and 25. YES, still HATIN'. |
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Klassix
Star Player
Joined: 12 Jun 2005
Posts: 1994
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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| yes, one decent game doesn't get rid of the hating on that druggie. |
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shnjb
Franchise Player
Joined: 08 Oct 2002
Posts: 13320
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Wanna get high? |
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Mr. Mojo Risin
Starting Rotation
Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 351
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:06 pm Post subject: Re: Still Hating Odom? |
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| sodapoppenski wrote: | | Mr. Mojo Risin wrote: | | sodapoppenski wrote: | | Mr. Mojo Risin wrote: | | sodapoppenski wrote: | | Mr. Mojo Risin wrote: | | sodapoppenski wrote: | | sodapoppenski wrote: | | Mr. Mojo Risin wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | Mr. Mojo Risin wrote: | | 17 points, 9 rebounds, 8 Assists. Near triple double |
Yep, still hatin'. Let's see if he can put 3 good games in a row ... or even 2. |
This is his 4th solid game in a row. This one even better. |
Lamar's averages for the last 3-games prior to tonight's win vs. Jazz...
10.0 pts (10-of-31 shooting)
8.7 rebs
5.3 ast
On the season he averages:
13.8 pts
9.4 rebs
5.3 ast
| Quote: | | This is his 4th solid game in a row. |
If by solid you mean "average" then I'd agree.
But tonight he played better than average.
So it can't be the 4th in a row of anything, average or great.
Can't we stop using every freaking game as an excuse to support one
side of the endless LO battle? |
Page bump |
Well Kobe's percentage isn't always high, but when he scores a lot, he's praised. That's nearly averaging a double double which he also averages on the season, which means he would be missed if traded. You've seen the games where he didn't play.... |
1.) Kobe's not praised when he shoots 28% over 3-games.
2.) I never said Lamar isn't valuable to us. I've always maintained that
he can be a great 3rd-option for us. He's just not the answer as a 2nd
guy in the big picture.
3.) I'm just tired of all these threads being started with SO little reason.
It really is only one good game by Odom when you look at the last
three. It's such a tiny, tiny reason to start acting like "hey he's finally
gonna put it together!!!" and start an entire thread on that.
Lamar's Change in Stats This Year vs. his Rookie Year:
- 2.8 pts
+1.5 reb
+1.2 ast
- 0.4 blk
- 0.3 stl
My point is, and always has been, just that those of us who expected him
to break out into some better player when he got here were expecting too
much.
The guy is who he's been since he got here. He's not getting better.
If you accepted that when he first came, then you're where I am which
is not all that surprised, but also expectedly not that impressed.
It's one game. |
averaging nearly a double double is above average
and he's been playing "solid" in the last 4 games being hurt. By "solid" I mean good, not great. Compared to anyone but Kobe on the team, his game is great. |
Dude give me a break.
We're talking about Odom here.
With any such player, comparing their season average[b] to how they
did is a good way to explain whether they had a "good game," or an
"average game" by their own standards and capabilities.
Again, in case you missed it...
[b]Lamar's averages for the last 3-games prior to tonight's win vs. Jazz...
10.0 pts (10-of-31 shooting)
8.7 rebs
5.3 ast
On the season he averages:
13.8 pts
9.4 rebs
5.3 ast
I'm not saying that's bad for a player in general.
But he averaged 4 points or so below his average the last 3 games.
He averaged fewer boards than his season average.
His assists are exactly his season average.
And his FG% was roughly 28% on that span.
Feel free to go on thinking that's a "good 3 games from Lamar," but pass
me whatever you're smoking when you're done. |
I said "solid" and while injured. Tonight was more than solid. |
Really?
| Quote: | Grizzlies game he had 8 points, 7 rebounds, 7 assists. That's a good all around game.
Rockets game, he had 8 points, 13 rebounds, 2 assists. Another good game.
Mavericks game, he had 14 points, 6 rebounds, 7 assists. Again, good. |
Maybe I need a new prescription, but that looks like "good," "good," and
last of all, "good" from you.
Last I checked "good" meant above average. |
I see by your post count and in arguing with you before and reading your threads that you have nothing better to do then argue and get the last word in and flame. In fact your flamed me in one of my first posts and called me a "rook" because of my post count. I've seen your type on message boards many times before. I'm tired of the Odom bashing threads when there are few positive Odom threads and you came out blasting me even though there are not many pro-Odom threads when he has a good game. Initially I said:
"This is his 4th solid game in a row. This one even better."
Then I referenced a former thread of mine after the Memphis game for stats and in my opinion those three games were good all around games. I didn't say "great", I said good. I never claimed he was an elite player. If we could somehow get a different forward who could score and rebound more, I would be for a trade in a second. To me, Odom is a good facilitator. The team seems to collapse when he doesn't play. Did you see the Hornets and Bobcats games? Anyhow, I don't know why I argue with guys like you who have nothing better to do than keep flaming and getting the last word, so I'll end it. I do have better things to do. |
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sodapoppenski
Star Player
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 7364
Location: Washington, DC
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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Ok well let's pretend we agree that you never said "good" three times
(like you did)...
So by saying "I only said solid" you're agreeing that the last 3 games
Odom has played (collectively below his average in every major
statistical category) are pretty much "average" games by his standards.
My point is, quite simply:
Why start another of the 100 Odom threads based on ONE good game
which follows 3 games by him that are (barely) average for him?
Check through more of my posts if you like.
You'll find that of my 3000+ posts, it's pretty rare that I engage in
personal attacks or even full-out arguments. Most of my posts are pretty
much just opinion and wisecracks for the fun of it.
Your rookie-hazing if I remember right had to do with your failure to
title your thread, which is encourage implicitly by LG and by common-
sense forum "netiquette" in general.
I'm not some Odom-hater.
Like I said, I think the guy would be a great fit for us as a 3rd-option, and
alot of trades people want to make using him would kill us on the boards.
But it's one good game.
Just silly to me to start another Odom-jocking thread over one game
when there are already a million such threads in either direction. |
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Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I'm tired of the Odom bashing threads when there are few positive Odom threads and you came out blasting me even though there are not many pro-Odom threads when he has a good game. |
Every pro-Odom thread turns into an Odom bashing exercise with the same group of diehards on both sides of the issue making the same arguments for the zillionth time. This thread proves the point.
You started this thread to taunt the Odom bashers. The title proves that. As you can see from the posts in this thread, you accomplished nothing. |
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THE_SHOES
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 29556
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Why start another of the 100 Odom threads based on ONE good game
which follows 3 games by him that are (barely) average for him?
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Somebody, anybody even LO haters. Does anybody ever remember this event taking place? Even after the Heat game, when was there ever a time before that Odom fetched a bunch of congratulatory threads?
I could have swore I was here for every game but, I just don't remember anything like that ever having happened this season...
_________________
"According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.." |
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THE_SHOES
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 29556
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Quote: | | I'm tired of the Odom bashing threads when there are few positive Odom threads and you came out blasting me even though there are not many pro-Odom threads when he has a good game. |
Every pro-Odom thread turns into an Odom bashing exercise with the same group of diehards on both sides of the issue making the same arguments for the zillionth time. This thread proves the point.
You started this thread to taunt the Odom bashers. The title proves that. As you can see from the posts in this thread, you accomplished nothing. |
Now, this is closer to the truth...
_________________
"According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.." |
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sodapoppenski
Star Player
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 7364
Location: Washington, DC
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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| THE_SHOES wrote: | | Quote: | Why start another of the 100 Odom threads based on ONE good game
which follows 3 games by him that are (barely) average for him?
|
Somebody, anybody even LO haters. Does anybody ever remember this event taking place? Even after the Heat game, when was there ever a time before that Odom fetched a bunch of congratulatory threads?
I could have swore I was here for every game but, I just don't remember anything like that ever having happened this season... |
Oh don't get me wrong, like Aeneas pointed out, there are far more
negative Odom threads than there are positive.
That's kind of just the nature of forums though, you hear more people
complaining about guys or wanting change than the other way around.
It's that whole "the grass is greener" thing I guess.
But yes there have been a number of pro-Odom threads on here too.
As Aeneas pointed out, they turn into Odom-bashing threads more than
the other way around.
But that's what I'm saying.
It's the same discussion in every thread.
There are always people who think he's total garbage.
Always people who think he's finally breaking out and is undervalued (if
fewer such people)
(for the record I think both extremes are exactly that, extremes)
And it ends up being the same, exact, discussion.
I just wish people would respect that the mods have attempted to
consolidate those threads.
It gets old sifting through thread after thread of the same discussion. |
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flashakadrano
Star Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 1028
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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| odom had a good game. actually had some impact behind those numbers tonight. too bad he cant do it for more than one game. or does something idiotic, see game at sacramento, to erase his good games.. |
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KA_2
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Posts: 1883
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Why they don't give LO or Bynum the ball more in the post, is beyond me. |
Bynum isn't very good, you should know that by now.
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THE_SHOES
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 29556
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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The positive threads for LO can be counted on one hand... I had 1 and, it gets brought back to the front page for revenge by the haters. Who are all taking the day off ironically.It's amazing, how there appearances are mainly after Laker loses involving LO in anyway even if there were other names. "Critical breakdown" may have had a couple. "Just_Looking" a couple and that is about it... Every last one of those threads just like this one ends up being an even heavier bash thread than the ones that are tittled with " skull and crossbones"
We can honestly conclude on the season that LO has never really had a positive thread...
_________________
"According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.." |
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Philostrator
Starting Rotation
Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 171
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Odom showed today that he's a veteran, I hope it stays that way. |
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sodapoppenski
Star Player
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 7364
Location: Washington, DC
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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| THE_SHOES wrote: | The positive threads for LO can be counted on one hand... I had 1 and, it gets brought back to the front page for revenge by the haters. Who are all taking the day off ironically.It's amazing, how there appearances are mainly after Laker loses involving LO in anyway even if there were other names. "Critical breakdown" may have had a couple. "Just_Looking" a couple and that is about it... Every last one of those threads just like this one ends up being an even heavier bash thread than the ones that are tittled with " skull and crossbones"
We can honestly conclude on the season that LO has never really had a positive thread... |
Check that.
But why start more threads then? We know that won't change.
At the least, wait until he has 3, 4, 5 above-average games so the thread
has a chance to pick up some steam and actually turn into a positive (or
at least evenly-mixed) thread.
If those who like Odom start pro-Odom threads after just one good game,
it only cuts the legs out from under them when it comes to credibility.
It only makes the Odom-haters feast on how weak it looks to try and talk up
someone who's polarity is based on "inconsistancy" after one good
game.
Again, I'd like to see that too - more positive Odom threads.
I actually feel the % of posters who are negative about Odom isn't a true
indication of how many are actually cool vs. uncool with the guy.
People are simply more likely to post out of spite than they are out of
praise.
I consider myself pretty middle-of-the-field on Odom.
I'm the demographic which might be swayed one of these days to either
side of the argument.
I'm just being honest that starting pro-Odom threads after one good
performance only insults my intelligence in that regard. |
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THE_SHOES
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 29556
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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Well, you won't have any more problems from me... Liking LO in here is about as popular as me showing up at a Klan pot luck dinner party with a pan of cornbread and a pot of Chittlins...
_________________
"According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.." |
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jack13
Star Player
Joined: 05 Dec 2005
Posts: 4620
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 1:14 am Post subject: |
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wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58347
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 6:46 am Post subject: |
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| KA_2 wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Why they don't give LO or Bynum the ball more in the post, is beyond me. |
Bynum isn't very good, you should know that by now. |
Not in regards to some basics like boxing out, where to rotate in on defense. He's a little lost there and needs a few years to pick up that.
But in terms of post up ability? The guy is much better than Kwame in the low post. And if we are going to Kwame 5-7 times - We are just pushing him to fail and get down on himself. Give those oppurtunities to Drew and Lamar.
Sure even Drew and Lamar are not "dominant" post players. But I like my chances with them in the post far more than I do Kwame.
Also, just because Bynum doesn't know some important fundamentals does not mean he isn't good.
Oh, and for ever 1-5 or 1-4 game Bynum's had recently, he's also had 2-2, 7-7 and 3-3 games too.
The kid had no above the rim game coming out of high school. Yet, he's already getting offensive rebounds and scoring a few of them on putbacks (that's his biggest weakness on O coming out of highschool according to the Lakers).
Saw that pass from Vujacic? A bad player does not convert that into a basket. It was a terrible pass that Bynum scooped up because he has good hands and then was able to finish. No Jazz player was even able to come close to stopping him on that play. A smal play - sure - but it shows how his length, size and good hands are helping him score.
Seems you only value dunkers. |
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LA_Lakers_Rule
Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 19482
Location: The X-Files
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 6:51 am Post subject: |
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Dr. Laker wrote:
| Quote: |
Yep, still hatin'. Let's see if he can put 3 good games in a row ... or even 2.
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So will you stop hating if Odom DOES put 2 or 3 good games together?
I can say one thing for sure, this thread is worthwhile if we could actually get a commitment from at least the majority of Odom bashers to actually STOP if this happens.
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Rule = win titles  
Good judgment comes from experience and a lot of that comes from bad judgment. - Will Rogers ...  |
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wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58347
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 6:55 am Post subject: |
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Odom will be hard pressed to become consistent in points.
The strategy of the team will have to change. Odom will have to come into games looking to post up and attack and be the 1st option. Then Kobe takes over as the game progresses. That would be needed before LO ever became a consistent 17-18 ppg guy for this team.
Now Odom isn't consistent in points - but his rebounds and assists have been consistent.
And what I liked about his game yesterday was that he played very solid defense. |
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THE_SHOES
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Posts: 29556
Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 7:07 am Post subject: |
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Where is bounty? This is what I'm talking about...
If Odom had of struggled he would have been spearheading every one of the multitude of threads that would have produced.
This is why I refer to certain individuals as haters... You're suppose to be a fan yet you can never give our guy any love when he is helping out. Let him make one (bleep) mistake and you can't count the threads or measure the hate... That is bull (bleep)...
Next time I accuse certain people of being fake fans you'll better understand what I mean...
_________________
"According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.."
Last edited by THE_SHOES on Tue Feb 14, 2006 7:09 am; edited 1 time in total |
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wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58347
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 7:09 am Post subject: |
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| THE_SHOES wrote: | Where is bounty? This is what I'm talking about...
If Odom had of struggled he would have been spearheading every one of the multitude of threads that would have produced.
This is why I refer to certain individuals as haters... You're suppose to be a fan yet you can never give our guy any love when he is helping out. Let him make one (bleep) mistake and you can't count the threads or measure the hate... That is bull (bleep)... |
Forget it Shoes.
You can't change anyone's minds through 1 game. Or even a few games.
The only way Lamar can change minds is if he can be part of a championship team. Or atleast a contender.
Until then, LO for the most part will be blamed.
It's ok. Mostly teams PG's are blamed. Kobe got a lot of flak in his early days too ... And he was a better player and much better closer than LO.
The only way you can shut up your critics is team success. LO just needs to keep playing unselfishly and trying to grasp the O. He was making some very good off the ball movements yesterday and that's a great sign that he might be graping the O.
With better support at PF and PG - the Lakers will become much better. |
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NY_LakerFan
Star Player
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 1297
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 7:23 am Post subject: |
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| DAMN!!! My car wouldn't start this morning. A**hole Odom!!!! |
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THE_SHOES
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Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 7:39 am Post subject: |
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What I'm talking about Wolfy is fans who have a genuine interest in this club, who suffer with every guy on the squad, fans who pull for our guys, and hold out hope before every game that the kids are going to start coming together...
Just to set an example the other day I admitted to Odom struggling and making a bad decision towards the end of the game. Even though there were other players in that mess to bring that final loss completely into focus. I'm trying to understand why we have this developement of camps over Odom who look forward to having "chest beating rights" over his shortcomings. Hell, we lost the damned game! Why would anybody be so enthusiastic to jump on folks who support a guy on our team when he struggles?
I guess the sentiment was developed on forums all over the world...
Sad...
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