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Sentient Meat
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 Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:29 am Post subject: |
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I see signing KCP fraught with the same difficulties of signing Randle... He already turned down 80 million at 5 years... and he's now shooting 3 pointers at an elite level. Maybe no one will offer him that amount... but he will want to get paid. He can't run the floor but you I suppose you can use him as a replacement for Paul George. However, I can't see signing both him and George as you are allocating half your team salary for the same skill set.
If KCP's going to continue to solidify his shooting at 40% or go even higher he becomes a really valuable asset.... I just don't know how you integrate him without giving up George. Any ideas? Too bad he can't run the point. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | LakersDC wrote: | KCP's second half of the year is what I expected going into the year. The dude is starting to grow on me. The first half of the year, he was giving me the Lonzo heebie jeebies when he'd shoot and the D Fish jitters when he'd go for a layup, but lately, dude is solid and I feel Hart confident when he shoots.
I doubt he'll be back - wish we had 2nd half KCP all year, but I'll be rooting for him next year as long as he isn't playing against us. |
That’s a good way to put it. even if Paul George doesn’t sign with us, it’s not a guarantee that KCP will be a fall back option, there is many scorers we can go after if PG doesn’t sign here... and one of the names that we might pursue if we can’t get PG is Jabari Parker. |
A name with no knees
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Dr. Funkbot
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:19 am Post subject: |
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KCP is still a streaky shooter, but yeah he is having a career year. I doubt we would be able to re-sign him next year. I guess it all depends on what LBJ and PG do.
Question, who would you re-sign if it were for the same money and could only choose one: Brook or KCP?
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Chronicle
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Funkbot wrote: | KCP is still a streaky shooter, but yeah he is having a career year. I doubt we would be able to re-sign him next year. I guess it all depends on what LBJ and PG do.
Question, who would you re-sign if it were for the same money and could only choose one: Brook or KCP? |
Brook spaces the floor for randle, so I'd say brook. But it's not an obvious answer
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Nash Vegas
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:45 am Post subject: |
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I started to like KCP when he started concentrating on rebounding and defense more than jacking up shots.
Still not a fan of him being Luke's (main or one of) go-to game winner guy.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:51 am Post subject: |
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If we completely punted (i.e. no PG13 or LBJ), I wouldn't mind bringing back KCP/Brook for another large 1 year deal.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:51 am Post subject: |
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If we sign George for 4 years he will be 28, 29, 30 and 31. KCP would be 25, 26, 27 and 28. One will have peaked while the other would be entering his prime. Both can defend and hit the 3 pointer. I am not supporting re-signing KCP over George but take away the hype and it isn’t that crazy of an idea.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | If we sign George for 4 years he will be 28, 29, 30 and 31. KCP would be 25, 26, 27 and 28. One will have peaked while the other would be entering his prime. Both can defend and hit the 3 pointer. I am not supporting re-signing KCP over George but take away the hype and it isn’t that crazy of an idea. |
KCP has a much lower ceiling, but it's a productive one. PG13 has an elite level ceiling on both ends, something I don't see KCP ever coming close to. KCP is a decent stop gap guy (a means but not ends player).
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:55 am Post subject: |
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We are watching George’s ceiling.
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:10 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | If we sign George for 4 years he will be 28, 29, 30 and 31. KCP would be 25, 26, 27 and 28. One will have peaked while the other would be entering his prime. Both can defend and hit the 3 pointer. I am not supporting re-signing KCP over George but take away the hype and it isn’t that crazy of an idea. |
I have no complaints if KCP is bought back, but 1 big difference between George and Pope is that one can help you get another level while the other one is more of guy that fills a void on the roster, Pope would be perfect for a veteran team I.e. super team but a team like the Kings might pay him some nice money |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | We are watching George’s ceiling. |
No. We are watching him play with WB/Melo.
Did you see PG in the playoffs last season?
28ppg/8.8rpg/7.3apg/1.8spg, 43% from 3. That's his ceiling. Pretty tough to get there with so many mouths to feed in OKC.
I charted every possession in their most recent loss to Boston in the last 2 minutes. He did not even touch the ball 1 time in the final 2 minutes.
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Sentient Meat
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:23 am Post subject: |
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KCP and Brook at 15 each... or PG at 30... which gives you more versatility or production?
If KCP continues shooting the 3 at 40%... you have to at least consider the possibility that two good players might be more useful than PG alone.
I couldn't imagine saying this even a month ago... but that dead eye shot doesn't look like it's going away. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | KCP and Brook at 15 each... or PG at 30... which gives you more versatility or production?
If KCP continues shooting the 3 at 40%... you have to at least consider the possibility that two good players might be more useful than PG alone.
I couldn't imagine saying this even a month ago... but that dead eye shot doesn't look like it's going away. |
2 2 carat diamonds or 1 4 carat diamond? I'll take the latter (and there are many ways you could have PG13/Brook at nearly the same combined price as KCP/Brook.
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Sentient Meat
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:44 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | KCP and Brook at 15 each... or PG at 30... which gives you more versatility or production?
If KCP continues shooting the 3 at 40%... you have to at least consider the possibility that two good players might be more useful than PG alone.
I couldn't imagine saying this even a month ago... but that dead eye shot doesn't look like it's going away. |
2 2 carat diamonds or 1 4 carat diamond? I'll take the latter (and there are many ways you could have PG13/Brook at nearly the same combined price as KCP/Brook. |
Wilt Chamberlain/Baylor/West
vs. Sam Jones/KC Jones/Bill Russell/Havlicek/Don Nelson/Cousy/Sharman
Kobe/Shaq/Payton
vs. Hamilton/Ben Wallace/Tayshaun/Chauncey/Sheed
The 2.2 carat doesn't always win
Duncan/Parker/Ginobili/Bowen/Nazr Mohammed also won. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:49 am Post subject: |
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Um Duncan is a 5 carat player, and Parker/Ginobili were exceptional players.
The fact you can name the few teams that had all stars (all of them had several all stars, which today's KCP/Brook are not) proves my point that you need a collection of elite talent (baseline multiple all stars).
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Sentient Meat
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | Um Duncan is a 5 carat player, and Parker/Ginobili were exceptional players.
The fact you can name the few teams that had all stars (all of them had several all stars, which today's KCP/Brook are not) proves my point that you need a collection of elite talent (baseline multiple all stars). |
I'm not saying you're wrong... I'm only saying the subject should be up for debate. If KCP is a 40% 3 pt shooter... if Brook is a 40% 3pt shooter who also rim protects... is the collective benefit better than PG?
I like Paul George but the question in my mind has gone from no f*cking way to hmmm... maybe these guys are worth considering. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Um Duncan is a 5 carat player, and Parker/Ginobili were exceptional players.
The fact you can name the few teams that had all stars (all of them had several all stars, which today's KCP/Brook are not) proves my point that you need a collection of elite talent (baseline multiple all stars). |
I'm not saying you're wrong... I'm only saying the subject should be up for debate. If KCP is a 40% 3 pt shooter... if Brook is a 40% 3pt shooter who also rim protects... is the collective benefit better than PG?
I like Paul George but the question in my mind has gone from no f*cking way to hmmm... maybe these guys are worth considering. |
It's not crazy because George is not quite an elite player, IMO (he's close). If KCP was better defensively, oddly, I might be on board. |
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Sentient Meat
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Um Duncan is a 5 carat player, and Parker/Ginobili were exceptional players.
The fact you can name the few teams that had all stars (all of them had several all stars, which today's KCP/Brook are not) proves my point that you need a collection of elite talent (baseline multiple all stars). |
I'm not saying you're wrong... I'm only saying the subject should be up for debate. If KCP is a 40% 3 pt shooter... if Brook is a 40% 3pt shooter who also rim protects... is the collective benefit better than PG?
I like Paul George but the question in my mind has gone from no f*cking way to hmmm... maybe these guys are worth considering. |
It's not crazy because George is not quite an elite player, IMO (he's close). If KCP was better defensively, oddly, I might be on board. |
Yeah, I haven't seen PG take over games enough to put him at the highest echelon. I can see KCP as more of a late game threat than PG to be honest. If he could stop making as many bonehead plays, he might move up to that all star level assuming his shots keep falling. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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PG13 went 28ppg/8.8rpg/7.3apg/1.8spg, 43% from 3 against LBJ in the playoffs last year. Granted it was a sweep (couple of close games) against a team the Pacers were badly outnumbered against.
On OKC, PG13 is at the mercy of WB and even Melo. Just watch the final 2 minutes of that Celtics game. How in good conscience can you say that PG13 deserved ZERO touches.
It's the environment IMO.
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Sentient Meat
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | PG13 went 28ppg/8.8rpg/7.3apg/1.8spg, 43% from 3 against LBJ in the playoffs last year. Granted it was a sweep (couple of close games) against a team the Pacers were badly outnumbered against.
On OKC, PG13 is at the mercy of WB and even Melo. Just watch the final 2 minutes of that Celtics game. How in good conscience can you say that PG13 deserved ZERO touches.
It's the environment IMO. |
Remember I don't debate that PG is better... I'm purely talking in terms of value for a max contract.
It's a good point about that performance... I also remember last year when he closed us out on the Pacers. It's just that I haven't heard much from him since when he made that deep run with Hibbert/Stephenson/Hill.
He did perform back then... and I think even against the Raptors when he went out in the first round. Gotta remind myself that he was good when he was the first option. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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The NBA at the highest levels typically requires elite level players.
So when the chips were on the table (and PG13 is a bit notorious for cruising and then letting it for the playoffs):
last playoffs:
28ppg/8.8rpg/7.3apg/1.8spg, 43% from 3.
The year before:
27ppg/7.6rpg/4.3apg/2spg, 42% from 3.
On OKC, you're at the mercy of WB and he will frankly get all the glory.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | We are watching George’s ceiling. |
No. We are watching him play with WB/Melo.
Did you see PG in the playoffs last season?
28ppg/8.8rpg/7.3apg/1.8spg, 43% from 3. That's his ceiling. Pretty tough to get there with so many mouths to feed in OKC.
I charted every possession in their most recent loss to Boston in the last 2 minutes. He did not even touch the ball 1 time in the final 2 minutes. |
Yet his 2 point attempts are in line with his career and his 3 point attempts are the highest of his career. So he is being fed the ball. Maybe analyzing 2 minutes of the season isn’t the way to base things like that on. He is playing on a solid team with star players, I would expect things would remain the same if he came here with another max player. As in OKC, we would share the ball. He is 28 in a month so he is up against his ceiling. I would love for him to sign here but am open to the idea that a younger player with similar strengths, along with another veteran for the same money, might be a better way to use our cap. But I get the obsession with names that our FO has and a big media splash would make them happy.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | KCP and Brook at 15 each... or PG at 30... which gives you more versatility or production?
If KCP continues shooting the 3 at 40%... you have to at least consider the possibility that two good players might be more useful than PG alone.
I couldn't imagine saying this even a month ago... but that dead eye shot doesn't look like it's going away. |
If that is my only choice I take George over KCP and Brook.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | We are watching George’s ceiling. |
No. We are watching him play with WB/Melo.
Did you see PG in the playoffs last season?
28ppg/8.8rpg/7.3apg/1.8spg, 43% from 3. That's his ceiling. Pretty tough to get there with so many mouths to feed in OKC.
I charted every possession in their most recent loss to Boston in the last 2 minutes. He did not even touch the ball 1 time in the final 2 minutes. |
Yet his 2 point attempts are in line with his career and his 3 point attempts are the highest of his career. So he is being fed the ball. Maybe analyzing 2 minutes of the season isn’t the way to base things like that on. He is playing on a solid team with star players, I would expect things would remain the same if he came here with another max player. As in OKC, we would share the ball. He is 28 in a month so he is up against his ceiling. I would love for him to sign here but am open to the idea that a younger player with similar strengths, along with another veteran for the same money, might be a better way to use our cap. But I get the obsession with names that our FO has and a big media splash would make them happy. |
Did I say my analysis is limited to 2 minutes from 1 game? Of course not. It illustrated the point that OKC begins/ends with WB.
OKC's offense is terrible. You should try watching some of their games.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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Of course it begins and ends with Westbrook, he is their franchise player. And if the FO gets their way, everything here begins and ends with Lebron. Your idea that George is starved for shots by WB isn’t supported by the numbers. My point is that instead of paying max for a player at the top of his prime, maybe spend less for a younger player just hitting his prime and use some cap to fill a hole might be a valid idea. For discussion only, I realize that our FO wouldn’t do that, it wouldn’t bring the same media attention that signing George would. After all the tampering and wink winking the media will crucify them if George doesn’t sign. Which would be unfair, they wouldn’t be the reason why George wouldn’t come here.
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