OFFICIAL Kentavious Caldwell-Pope Thread (Resigned for 3 Years, $40 Million)
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lakersfan8
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:59 am    Post subject:

SPO200 wrote:
I mean, what were the other options? Ok, we do not sign Harrell AND Mathews and we sign a center for the tax MLE.
Were we going to sign Rondo? Probably not, I think he would still leave as he seems like a guy who probably thinks that his work here is already done.
Sign Howard? Yes, we would have signed him, but he is worse than Harrell.
Sign Bradley? Probably not, I don't think the Lakers were that interested in him after all that bubble thing.
Sign KCP? Yes, but we have already done it.

The only question that we don't know yet is if we sign Kieff and we may still sign him after everything that we have done. So what are exactly the disadvantages of signing Harrell and "overpaying" for KCP?

Personally, I would prefer splitting the MLE for any combination of Morris, Baynes and Harkless. Howard would probably be back without Harrell.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:06 am    Post subject:

lakersfan8 wrote:
SPO200 wrote:
I mean, what were the other options? Ok, we do not sign Harrell AND Mathews and we sign a center for the tax MLE.
Were we going to sign Rondo? Probably not, I think he would still leave as he seems like a guy who probably thinks that his work here is already done.
Sign Howard? Yes, we would have signed him, but he is worse than Harrell.
Sign Bradley? Probably not, I don't think the Lakers were that interested in him after all that bubble thing.
Sign KCP? Yes, but we have already done it.

The only question that we don't know yet is if we sign Kieff and we may still sign him after everything that we have done. So what are exactly the disadvantages of signing Harrell and "overpaying" for KCP?

Personally, I would prefer splitting the MLE for any combination of Morris, Baynes and Harkless. Howard would probably be back without Harrell.

Well, we still don't know about Morris and Baynes. Let's wait what 4 guys Rob sign for the min
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danzag
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:27 am    Post subject:

$13M for KCP is not overpaying, IMHO.
Let's run it back, Kenny!!!
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:17 am    Post subject:

ducasse wrote:
Another opinion

The Lakers paint themselves into a corner, and several other small moves (Sat. 11:15)

Lakers: Kentavious Caldwell-Pope’s three-year, $40 million deal underscores how badly the Lakers painted themselves into a corner by using their full mid-level exception on Montrezl Harrell. The Lakers are now hard-capped and can only use minimum contracts for their last four roster spots, and carry only the minimum of 14 players. This state of affairs will hamstring them nearly the entire season, as the Lakers are only a few dollars short of the hard cap line, depending on the exact figure for Caldwell-Pope’s first-year salary.

Caldwell-Pope himself was a pretty large overpay – BORD$ saw him as worth less than half this amount – but the Lakers almost had no choice once they paid Harrell. Their MLE was the only alternative to replacing Caldwell-Pope if he left for another team, so once they used it on Harrell, it put them in a difficult negotiating position. Had Caldwell-Pope left, the Lakers would have had just the $3.6 million biannual exception with which to pay a replacement.

On the flip side, overpaying Caldwell-Pope is more damaging because they used the full MLE on Harrell. This was a glittering shiny object they grabbed based on Harrell’s high scoring 2019-20, when he won the Sixth Man Award.

In a vacuum, yes, the contract makes sense. Situationally, not so much. This was not a player the Lakers particularly needed, and his game would not seem to fit well with LeBron James and Anthony Davis on the floor.

Had the Lakers settled for using their taxpayer MLE on a different center, they would not be in this position because they would not be hard-capped, and thus the overpay on Caldwell-Pope would have only hurt Jeanie Buss’s checkbook. Instead, the Lakers have to cobble together four roster spots on veteran minimum contacts. While they are fortunate that they are the top destination for veterans seeking a minimum deal, they’re still sorting through the discount bin.

One thing I would expect, however, is for the Lakers to only guarantee three of these deals. L.A. can extend its wiggle room by using the last spot on a non-guaranteed player and waiving him the first week of the season, and toggling between 13 and 14 roster players through the season in much the same way Golden State did a year ago. Regardless, this will be a difficult dance with the hard cap line all year lo
ng.


What an odd article. Unless I'm missing something, he never really made a point of why we shouldn't sign the players we signed. The only thing I can see is that he is throwing shade at the Lakers because he is a fan of another team.
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audioaxes
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:26 am    Post subject:

SPO200 wrote:
I mean, what were the other options? Ok, we do not sign Harrell AND Mathews and we sign a center for the tax MLE.
Were we going to sign Rondo? Probably not, I think he would still leave as he seems like a guy who probably thinks that his work here is already done.
Sign Howard? Yes, we would have signed him, but he is worse than Harrell.
Sign Bradley? Probably not, I don't think the Lakers were that interested in him after all that bubble thing.
Sign KCP? Yes, but we have already done it.

The only question that we don't know yet is if we sign Kieff and we may still sign him after everything that we have done. So what are exactly the disadvantages of signing Harrell and "overpaying" for KCP?

obvious disadvantages...
lets start with Trez... I've warmed up to him but full MLE for a big who cant shoot is waaaay down the list of needs for this team. Id much rather have gotten Christian Wood who does it all including 3 point shooting.
For overpaying KCP it sucked up what little cap space which means: we can only offer Kief a vet min instead of non-bird rights contract with 120% increase.
Same for Howard and it might be why he left... the salary difference is not significant but it could have been a principle think. So you Trez is better than Howard but Howard was top to bottom better than Mcgee.
And then his overpay limits the return on what we can do with our final bullet: the Kuzma+McGee trade package... those 2 in a trade package could bring back up to ~13.5 in salary but is limited to the hardcap. So now that we are right against that cap we can only trade for a player thats about equal or less than their combined salaries.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:34 am    Post subject:

danzag wrote:
$13M for KCP is not overpaying, IMHO.
Let's run it back, Kenny!!!

13mil is too much for a role player who cant create or play make and is neither an elite shooter or defender.
some context: we just signed Wes Matthews to only 3.6M... a clearly better defender and has a better shooting career than KCP
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:17 am    Post subject:

We overpaid for KCP however he now has a 3 year deal from us. We can actually trade him now without him being able to prevent it.

So hopefully he plays well for the first half of the season so that we can move him for something solid, at the deadline.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:24 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:


potent offense may come from a Trez, AD, KCP, Schroder, Bron unit.


This lineup is absolutely insane
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:32 pm    Post subject:

scout_0 wrote:
I love KCP...easily my favorite laker.


Thank you for saying this. I never realized it, but he is mine too!
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:11 pm    Post subject:

I believe one overlooked aspect of KCP is his ability to stay healthy and on the floor...

He is young, stays injury free, and can play big minutes at the guard position.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:20 pm    Post subject:

BobbyB wrote:
I believe one overlooked aspect of KCP is his ability to stay healthy and on the floor...

He is young, stays injury free, and can play big minutes at the guard position.


Agreed.

He is also has that JR Smith-like ability to hit the long tough 3's with the shot clock running down.

He is durable, his teammates love him and he is improving some of his weaknesses.

Plus, Pelinka has proven he can get rid of almost any contract (Mitch's Deng albatross being the exception)
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:46 pm    Post subject:

And that is why Pelinka is GM and not you lol

lakersfan8 wrote:
SPO200 wrote:
I mean, what were the other options? Ok, we do not sign Harrell AND Mathews and we sign a center for the tax MLE.
Were we going to sign Rondo? Probably not, I think he would still leave as he seems like a guy who probably thinks that his work here is already done.
Sign Howard? Yes, we would have signed him, but he is worse than Harrell.
Sign Bradley? Probably not, I don't think the Lakers were that interested in him after all that bubble thing.
Sign KCP? Yes, but we have already done it.

The only question that we don't know yet is if we sign Kieff and we may still sign him after everything that we have done. So what are exactly the disadvantages of signing Harrell and "overpaying" for KCP?

Personally, I would prefer splitting the MLE for any combination of Morris, Baynes and Harkless. Howard would probably be back without Harrell.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:10 pm    Post subject:

LakerLanny wrote:
BobbyB wrote:
I believe one overlooked aspect of KCP is his ability to stay healthy and on the floor...

He is young, stays injury free, and can play big minutes at the guard position.


Agreed.

He is also has that JR Smith-like ability to hit the long tough 3's with the shot clock running down.

He is durable, his teammates love him and he is improving some of his weaknesses.

Plus, Pelinka has proven he can get rid of almost any contract (Mitch's Deng albatross being the exception)


He def came up clutch in playoffs.

Agree with the teammates liking him as well. Seems like he just keeps his head down and works.

Excited for the season!
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:14 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
We overpaid for KCP however he now has a 3 year deal from us. We can actually trade him now without him being able to prevent it.

So hopefully he plays well for the first half of the season so that we can move him for something solid, at the deadline.


Like who? Julius Randle? 😝
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:23 pm    Post subject:

https://twitter.com/Lakers/status/1330727864015093765?s=19
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 9:59 am    Post subject:

I rewatched the end of the first bubble game when Lebron defended Kawhi and PG. When Bron switched off Kawhi and went to PG, it was KCP who denied a pass back to Kawhi.

He’s done this time and time again over the past three years as a Laker. KCP was booed, but this guy is so important to the Lakers. With KCP’s new contract, hopefully the best is yet to come.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:56 pm    Post subject:

phantasyman wrote:
And that is why Pelinka is GM and not you lol

lakersfan8 wrote:
SPO200 wrote:
I mean, what were the other options? Ok, we do not sign Harrell AND Mathews and we sign a center for the tax MLE.
Were we going to sign Rondo? Probably not, I think he would still leave as he seems like a guy who probably thinks that his work here is already done.
Sign Howard? Yes, we would have signed him, but he is worse than Harrell.
Sign Bradley? Probably not, I don't think the Lakers were that interested in him after all that bubble thing.
Sign KCP? Yes, but we have already done it.

The only question that we don't know yet is if we sign Kieff and we may still sign him after everything that we have done. So what are exactly the disadvantages of signing Harrell and "overpaying" for KCP?

Personally, I would prefer splitting the MLE for any combination of Morris, Baynes and Harkless. Howard would probably be back without Harrell.


Not signing those guys would have been horrible but it would have felt like a lateral move.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:23 pm    Post subject:

audioaxes wrote:
danzag wrote:
$13M for KCP is not overpaying, IMHO.
Let's run it back, Kenny!!!

13mil is too much for a role player who cant create or play make and is neither an elite shooter or defender.
some context: we just signed Wes Matthews to only 3.6M... a clearly better defender and has a better shooting career than KCP


Maybe 13mil is too much, but your emphasis is on what he does not do. Let's balance that with giving him credit for what he does do well: (1) brings excellent speed to our team. He and Schroder might be lethal with LeBron & AD on the floor. (2) brings excellent size & athleticism on the bigger point guards in the league. (3) he did increase his 3pt % from the low 34% regular season to a playoff high of 38%.

Bottom line: Some things he doesn't do well, but what he does do well makes him a vital part of a championship team.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:32 pm    Post subject:

lakerlove123 wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:


potent offense may come from a Trez, AD, KCP, Schroder, Bron unit.


This lineup is absolutely insane


Inside out checked
Outside in checked
Fast break checked checked checked
Run thru Bron checked
Run thru AD checked
Run thru Schroeder checked
Clear out for anybody not named KCP checked
Switch on D checked

Bring it
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 11:45 pm    Post subject:

We always overpay for KCP, because he is managed by Klutch.

Klutch Cash Payment
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 12:07 am    Post subject:

LakerDYnasty72 wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
danzag wrote:
$13M for KCP is not overpaying, IMHO.
Let's run it back, Kenny!!!

13mil is too much for a role player who cant create or play make and is neither an elite shooter or defender.
some context: we just signed Wes Matthews to only 3.6M... a clearly better defender and has a better shooting career than KCP


Maybe 13mil is too much, but your emphasis is on what he does not do. Let's balance that with giving him credit for what he does do well: (1) brings excellent speed to our team. He and Schroder might be lethal with LeBron & AD on the floor. (2) brings excellent size & athleticism on the bigger point guards in the league. (3) he did increase his 3pt % from the low 34% regular season to a playoff high of 38%.

Bottom line: Some things he doesn't do well, but what he does do well makes him a vital part of a championship team.


Not to mention KCP is just entering his prime at 27 along with AD while Wes (Who I love as a pickup and believe he can safely and probably even improve what Danny brought last season) is 34. That's nearly enough reason alone for the price difference considering what other guys were getting in free agency.

We also now have the fastest backcourt along with Trezz and AD who are some of the faster front court guys with one of the greatest passers the NBA has ever seen playing QB.

Most importantly though since we were over the cap regardless it was basically overpay slightly for him (which realistically imo he's about market value since he'll be 27-29 for the duration of the contract) or replace him with a minimum guy. Pretty easy decision especially when he just played great all bubble long on both ends facing elite guards pretty much every single game.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 4:40 am    Post subject:

JamaalWilkes wrote:
We always overpay for KCP, because he is managed by Klutch.

Klutch Cash Payment


Montrezl
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:21 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
We overpaid for KCP however he now has a 3 year deal from us. We can actually trade him now without him being able to prevent it.

So hopefully he plays well for the first half of the season so that we can move him for something solid, at the deadline.


KCP has shown he can hit in the playoffs. That is when the money is earned.
Think KCP has to be motivated to play well.

The players the Lakers have now are better than empty statistic guys on bad
teams.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 10:20 am    Post subject:

KCP earned respect last season, particularly in the playoffs. I hope we continue to see the same KCP we saw last year; I believe with Vogel at the helm we will.

Between Schroeder, KCP, Caruso and Matthews we have a very competitive guard rotation that will play solid defense all game long. KCP showing up offensively in the playoffs bodes well for him.
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LakerDYnasty72
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 10:55 am    Post subject:

hype wrote:
LakerDYnasty72 wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
danzag wrote:
$13M for KCP is not overpaying, IMHO.
Let's run it back, Kenny!!!

13mil is too much for a role player who cant create or play make and is neither an elite shooter or defender.
some context: we just signed Wes Matthews to only 3.6M... a clearly better defender and has a better shooting career than KCP


Maybe 13mil is too much, but your emphasis is on what he does not do. Let's balance that with giving him credit for what he does do well: (1) brings excellent speed to our team. He and Schroder might be lethal with LeBron & AD on the floor. (2) brings excellent size & athleticism on the bigger point guards in the league. (3) he did increase his 3pt % from the low 34% regular season to a playoff high of 38%.

Bottom line: Some things he doesn't do well, but what he does do well makes him a vital part of a championship team.


Not to mention KCP is just entering his prime at 27 along with AD while Wes (Who I love as a pickup and believe he can safely and probably even improve what Danny brought last season) is 34. That's nearly enough reason alone for the price difference considering what other guys were getting in free agency.

We also now have the fastest backcourt along with Trezz and AD who are some of the faster front court guys with one of the greatest passers the NBA has ever seen playing QB.

Most importantly though since we were over the cap regardless it was basically overpay slightly for him (which realistically imo he's about market value since he'll be 27-29 for the duration of the contract) or replace him with a minimum guy. Pretty easy decision especially when he just played great all bubble long on both ends facing elite guards pretty much every single game.


Excellent point. So, basically we replaced Green's salary w/a combination of Matthews & KCP's salary. Da_n that's good!
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