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governator Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 24996
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:56 am Post subject: |
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governator wrote: | TWENTY SEVEN MINUTES FULL OF DONUT... CASEY P... NO TRADE CLAUSE... $8,000,000 |
FORGOT THE $89,282... DID I SAY NO TRADE CLAUSE |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:56 am Post subject: |
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I think it's the hyphenated last name that makes him intruiging to GMs.
If it was just Kentavious Pope you'd say, "nah."
Or Kentavious Caldwell. Nope.
But hyphenated? Damn. Yes. Sign him up.
_________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:57 am Post subject: |
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Bard207 wrote: | epak wrote: | He was horrible.
But with Alex and Rondo out, our options were limited.
Imagine Troy or Quinn guarding Kawhi. |
I don't think Rondo or Caruso would have done that well guarding Leonard either. |
Very true.
But having them take some ball handling duties off of LeBron perhaps gives him energy to guard a wing. |
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governator Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 24996
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:57 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | I think it's the hyphenated last name that makes him intruiging to GMs.
If it was just Kentavious Pope you'd say, "nah."
Or Kentavious Caldwell. Nope.
But hyphenated? Damn. Yes. Sign him up.
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That's how we got that one dude before, Magic-Johnson-Odom-O'neal or something |
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Bard207 Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2013 Posts: 7713
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:28 am Post subject: |
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epak wrote: | Bard207 wrote: | epak wrote: | He was horrible.
But with Alex and Rondo out, our options were limited.
Imagine Troy or Quinn guarding Kawhi. |
I don't think Rondo or Caruso would have done that well guarding Leonard either. |
Very true.
But having them take some ball handling duties off of LeBron perhaps gives him energy to guard a wing. |
LeBron didn't play close to 82 games last season and had no playoff games, so in theory he should be quite fresh for this season. But since he will turn 35 in just over two months, I expect him to pace himself quite a bit. He will be attempting to win a ring at age 35 which Michael Jordan and Kobe didn't do.
They don't have a quality defender with young legs in the group of Kuzma, Dudley and KCP to take/share the defensive burden of guarding Small Forwards. If they have Green do it too much, he might have dead legs late in games that could impact his three point shooting.
Some say to have patience and wait for Iguodala to eventually join the team. He will be 36 at the end of January, appears to be somewhat detached from the team and might not be in complete game shape when he eventually leaves Memphis.
I have the lack of a decent defensive SF/PF as a bigger issue than so so PG play from Rondo, Bradley, Caruso etc. Even if they do something to add another ball handler/distributor to the roster, the problem of lack of depth at SF will still be there. |
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BobbyB Star Player
Joined: 05 Feb 2013 Posts: 2489
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:32 am Post subject: |
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I thought KCP played pretty good defense throughout the game. Non existent offensively.
I think Norvell should get a look and see if he can replicate pre season success.
He showed ability to create and get into the paint. I felt like we were missing another ball handler and shot creator. |
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matrixskillz Star Player
Joined: 22 Jun 2008 Posts: 7502
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:34 am Post subject: |
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2019 wrote: | matrixskillz wrote: | We could have signed Ariza with KCP’s money. |
Ariza- 2 years $25M
KCP- 2 years $14M |
KCP-8M
Caruso-3M
Rondo-2.5M
Daniels-2M
I’d trade all of them for Ariza _________________ We only celebrate championships.
"I GOT WHEATIES!" |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:36 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | I thought KCP played pretty good defense throughout the game. |
That's a no.
But it's also Vogel's fault for letting KCP be summarily executed by a thousand slashes last night too. But he did not play good defense by any means. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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2019 Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Dec 2014 Posts: 10786
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:37 am Post subject: |
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matrixskillz wrote: | 2019 wrote: | matrixskillz wrote: | We could have signed Ariza with KCP’s money. |
Ariza- 2 years $25M
KCP- 2 years $14M |
KCP-8M
Caruso-3M
Rondo-2.5M
Daniels-2M
I’d trade all of them for Ariza |
Yeah same. Except other than KCP, none of those guys effected the cap space.
Still they took up roster spots... |
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manlisten Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2004 Posts: 3169
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:38 am Post subject: |
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KCP wasn't effective but I also thought he played good defense. Just not big enough to bother Kawhi. Definitely gave a ton of effort however. _________________ It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points." |
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epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:55 am Post subject: |
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Bard207 wrote: | epak wrote: | Bard207 wrote: | epak wrote: | He was horrible.
But with Alex and Rondo out, our options were limited.
Imagine Troy or Quinn guarding Kawhi. |
I don't think Rondo or Caruso would have done that well guarding Leonard either. |
Very true.
But having them take some ball handling duties off of LeBron perhaps gives him energy to guard a wing. |
LeBron didn't play close to 82 games last season and had no playoff games, so in theory he should be quite fresh for this season. But since he will turn 35 in just over two months, I expect him to pace himself quite a bit. He will be attempting to win a ring at age 35 which Michael Jordan and Kobe didn't do.
They don't have a quality defender with young legs in the group of Kuzma, Dudley and KCP to take/share the defensive burden of guarding Small Forwards. If they have Green do it too much, he might have dead legs late in games that could impact his three point shooting.
Some say to have patience and wait for Iguodala to eventually join the team. He will be 36 at the end of January, appears to be somewhat detached from the team and might not be in complete game shape when he eventually leaves Memphis.
I have the lack of a decent defensive SF/PF as a bigger issue than so so PG play from Rondo, Bradley, Caruso etc. Even if they do something to add another ball handler/distributor to the roster, the problem of lack of depth at SF will still be there. |
Yep. That quality SF who can defend and stretch the floor is missing.
I'm hoping Kuz is at least league average on defense when he comes back.
That'll do wonders imo |
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governator Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 24996
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:01 am Post subject: |
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governator wrote: | governator wrote: | TWENTY SEVEN MINUTES FULL OF DONUT... CASEY P... NO TRADE CLAUSE... $8,000,000 |
FORGOT THE $89,282... DID I SAY NO TRADE CLAUSE |
LOU WILLIAMS: $8,000,000 |
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BobbyB Star Player
Joined: 05 Feb 2013 Posts: 2489
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:06 am Post subject: |
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manlisten wrote: | KCP wasn't effective but I also thought he played good defense. Just not big enough to bother Kawhi. Definitely gave a ton of effort however. |
I agree effort was there. He had a few deflections and was playing hard.
The problem is his offensive game. I honestly thought when we first brought KCP from Detroit that we got lucky. He was a decent catch and shoot 3 pt shooter and athletic wing that could attack the basket.
He is not that. To inconsistent offensively and has no way to create for others. Our team needs another creator, someone who can get inside the defense. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:07 am Post subject: |
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No doubt KCP gave "effort."
But that effort did not translate to good defense.
But a lot of that is Vogel not recognizing this and taking KCP off KL.
Vogel failed to give good coaching "effort" on that part. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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lakersfever714 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2016 Posts: 11600
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:10 am Post subject: |
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Lebron's tax? or is our FO that dumb to resign KCP? For $8M, we could have gotten someone like Lou, who plays like a $20M player. _________________ LeGoat! LeMazing! LeGend! |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:12 am Post subject: |
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lakersfever714 wrote: | Lebron's tax? or is our FO that dumb to resign KCP? For $8M, we could have gotten someone like Lou, who plays like a $20M player. |
Lou must be upset that he's making 8m a year. He really didn't trust in his play. He's easily worth 2x time. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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lakersfever714 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2016 Posts: 11600
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:15 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | lakersfever714 wrote: | Lebron's tax? or is our FO that dumb to resign KCP? For $8M, we could have gotten someone like Lou, who plays like a $20M player. |
Lou must be upset that he's making 8m a year. He really didn't trust in his play. He's easily worth 2x time. |
I guess that's on him to have left a lot of potential money on the table but I wonder if our FO ever even considered going after him. _________________ LeGoat! LeMazing! LeGend! |
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Ziggy Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 12712
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:18 am Post subject: |
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BobbyB wrote: | I thought KCP played pretty good defense throughout the game. Non existent offensively.
I think Norvell should get a look and see if he can replicate pre season success.
He showed ability to create and get into the paint. I felt like we were missing another ball handler and shot creator. |
I agree. I thought KCP played well on D but he was just outsized and outmatched. He fought hard around screens and denied Kawhi a few times. Against smaller guards like CJ McCollum or Gary Harris he would've been more effective. There's a reason Kawhi is arguably the best player in the league.
The problem is his D isn't good enough to stay on the floor when he's putting up a donut on offense. An elite defender can get away with staying on the floor. That's when the coach has to say "alright Kawhi is going to light us up regardless of who we put on him, we have to get some points up".
KCP just had probably his worst offensive game ever. He will still help against most other teams. We knew before the season even started that we needed more wing defenders. We just saw why. |
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Ziggy Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 12712
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:22 am Post subject: |
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lakersfever714 wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | lakersfever714 wrote: | Lebron's tax? or is our FO that dumb to resign KCP? For $8M, we could have gotten someone like Lou, who plays like a $20M player. |
Lou must be upset that he's making 8m a year. He really didn't trust in his play. He's easily worth 2x time. |
I guess that's on him to have left a lot of potential money on the table but I wonder if our FO ever even considered going after him. |
He said he knew he left money on the table but it was more important to him to stay on one team. He's bounced around from team to team his whole career. I can respect that decision. |
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wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58318
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:25 am Post subject: |
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Again, I thought KCP did his role well. He played within his limits didn't take 1 on 1 shots trying to showcase himself, he was active and played hard on D and ran well.
You can fault him for being outmatched by Kawhi, a top 3 player in the league. That is a mismatch. The issue is that KCP should be at backup 2, and until Kuzma gets back, we will need either Lebron to play overload (Not a good idea) or to play smaller. We are going smaller. |
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BobbyB Star Player
Joined: 05 Feb 2013 Posts: 2489
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:25 am Post subject: |
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Ziggy wrote: | BobbyB wrote: | I thought KCP played pretty good defense throughout the game. Non existent offensively.
I think Norvell should get a look and see if he can replicate pre season success.
He showed ability to create and get into the paint. I felt like we were missing another ball handler and shot creator. |
I agree. I thought KCP played well on D but he was just outsized and outmatched. He fought hard around screens and denied Kawhi a few times. Against smaller guards like CJ McCollum or Gary Harris he would've been more effective. There's a reason Kawhi is arguably the best player in the league.
The problem is his D isn't good enough to stay on the floor when he's putting up a donut on offense. An elite defender can get away with staying on the floor. That's when the coach has to say "alright Kawhi is going to light us up regardless of who we put on him, we have to get some points up".
KCP just had probably his worst offensive game ever. He will still help against most other teams. We knew before the season even started that we needed more wing defenders. We just saw why. |
The problem is compounded when the Lakers go McGee/Dwight with Davis and Lebron.
If KCP is not hitting shots we have 4 players who cant or dont want to shoot 3's.
Thats why I believe they went to Daniels in stretches. But I was thinking the Lakers should have gone AD to the 5 much sooner and try to see what that looked like. |
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matrixskillz Star Player
Joined: 22 Jun 2008 Posts: 7502
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:26 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Quote: | I thought KCP played pretty good defense throughout the game. |
That's a no.
But it's also Vogel's fault for letting KCP be summarily executed by a thousand slashes last night too. But he did not play good defense by any means. |
why vogel insisted on having KCP guard KL was beyond me. he got absolutely destroyed on every possession. LBJ and dudley should have handled the majority of it, but we REALLY need a defensive wing stopper (IGGY) _________________ We only celebrate championships.
"I GOT WHEATIES!" |
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Conformista Sixth Man
Joined: 22 Oct 2019 Posts: 32
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:29 am Post subject: |
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KCP shouldn't be the scapegoat for a poorly constructed team that relies too much on the dominance of their superstars, one who is no longer able to dominate like he used to and the other who is not really a shot creator. He wasn't great obviously, but he's always been streaky and could get hot like Green did next game. The problem was that LBJ cannot carry a team on his back anymore. This team will be good enough to beat 80% of the league but it will probably struggle with some of the elite teams. |
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Ziggy Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 12712
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:02 am Post subject: |
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BobbyB wrote: | Ziggy wrote: | BobbyB wrote: | I thought KCP played pretty good defense throughout the game. Non existent offensively.
I think Norvell should get a look and see if he can replicate pre season success.
He showed ability to create and get into the paint. I felt like we were missing another ball handler and shot creator. |
I agree. I thought KCP played well on D but he was just outsized and outmatched. He fought hard around screens and denied Kawhi a few times. Against smaller guards like CJ McCollum or Gary Harris he would've been more effective. There's a reason Kawhi is arguably the best player in the league.
The problem is his D isn't good enough to stay on the floor when he's putting up a donut on offense. An elite defender can get away with staying on the floor. That's when the coach has to say "alright Kawhi is going to light us up regardless of who we put on him, we have to get some points up".
KCP just had probably his worst offensive game ever. He will still help against most other teams. We knew before the season even started that we needed more wing defenders. We just saw why. |
The problem is compounded when the Lakers go McGee/Dwight with Davis and Lebron.
If KCP is not hitting shots we have 4 players who cant or dont want to shoot 3's.
Thats why I believe they went to Daniels in stretches. But I was thinking the Lakers should have gone AD to the 5 much sooner and try to see what that looked like. |
Agree 100%. When we go big then we need to play whoever has the hot hand at the guard positions. I thought Green sat for about 5 minutes too long. He's not going to have many nights like that so you have to ride him a little longer when he does.
I like Daniels but he should not be put in the position Vogel put him in. He should be put in on the last offensive possession of a quarter/half coming out of a timeout, not in the middle of a competitive game against the best teams in the league. He's a fringe NBA player 6 seasons into his career for a reason. You don't want him playing multiple possessions unless someone ahead of him is in foul trouble.
I think we have to give Green and Bradley longer minutes. They're clearly our best backcourt paring. Bradley got 24 minutes while Daniels(16)/Cook(17) combined for 33 minutes. We have to tighten that up and push Daniels to the end of the bench. Give Bradley at least 28-30mpg, Cook about 12mpg and whatever remaining to Daniels. |
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MIMLaker Franchise Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2001 Posts: 10015 Location: Los Angeles/ Alhambra, CA
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Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:05 am Post subject: |
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Kawhi lit KCP up so bad I thought KCP was one of those wireless phone charging pads. A reporter could've handed him a dead iPhone for 30 seconds after the game and gotten a 60% charge. |
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