Grade Magic & Rob - Summary of FO Moves
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How Do You Rate Magic & Rob's First Offseason
A+
20%
 20%  [ 42 ]
A
29%
 29%  [ 62 ]
A-
16%
 16%  [ 35 ]
B+
14%
 14%  [ 30 ]
B
7%
 7%  [ 15 ]
B-
5%
 5%  [ 11 ]
C
3%
 3%  [ 8 ]
D
2%
 2%  [ 6 ]
Total Votes : 209

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M2K
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:40 pm    Post subject:

trablos wrote:
How would you guys rate them if we still had Dlo and Moz, but added ball and kuzma and didn't sign any FA's?


See... there's a catch to this option. I would rather have traded Randle / Clarkson in a salary dump and kept DLO.

I believe Magic chose to keep Randle and trade DLO. My problem with that is... I don't see Randle ceiling anywhere near as high as DLOs.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:45 pm    Post subject:

The Magic and Rob Pilinka has turned the fortunes of the Lakers in 5 months!!!!!!!!

This is a critical year for the Lakers for the other teams like Timberwolves, Houston, Celtics, OKC, Kings, Pelicans, Phoenix have all made significant moves and gotten much better. And the GSW, Spurs, Clippers, etc are still there.

The Lakers have hope of the 8th playoff spot. A huge turnaround but needed to get a chance at Paul George.
And the hardest part will be next year maxing out George and paying for Lopez, KCP, and Randle.

For which existing players can the Lakers go over the cap. You have to tell Magic and Rob, as if they didn't already know, to sign the existing players after signing Paul George and other FAs before they go over the cap.

I understand they can go over the cap to sign certain existing players. Is that true?
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:50 pm    Post subject:

Gave them a B. Here's what's up:

The good:
- Signing KCP to a one-year deal!!! I honestly thought this was impossible, one of top 5-10 moves made in the league this free agency IMO
- 2017 Draft, in addition to drafting Lonzo they picked up a legit rotation player in Kuzma and guys like Hart and Bryant who have the skills also to become rotation players. They also did their due diligence and picked another unpopular late 1st round guy who looks like a steal, and turned another late pick into two late picks without sacrificing much. They had one of the best drafts, if not the best draft, out of all 30 teams.
- Staying patient in free agency and waiting for opportunities to arise
- Chasing the right guys in free agency
- Forming a long-term front office strategy and sticking to it
- Interested in signing players who fit the coach's vision.

The bad
- The D'Angelo trade was poor value for their top young player and was also completely horrible timing. They could have let him play with Lonzo to increase his trade value if they were so hell-bent on trading him. Also a concerning assessment of his potential & his skills, to trade a player who is on a fringe all star trajectory in a salary dump. There was absolutely no reason to get rid of him when they did. This was really terrible.
- They fired their Department Head of Analytics and are currently playing basketball games without a replacement in that department, which is honestly blowing my mind in a very disappointed way. How is this not a bigger deal?!?!
- The 2018 plan is very frustrating to go through again, to shrug off development of young talent long-term to win now, while the Golden State Warriors are somehow assembling teams better than the last year and every single team in the West is becoming a super team. I hate this plan and it marks the return of Lakers Exceptionalism, which was killing the Lakers a couple years ago in their free agency meetings. Gotta learn that stars won't come to LA "just because it's LA," develop young players and take the long road so they're ready to shine when the current titans are beyond their prime.

Some seriously good moves, and some baffling/frustrating ones too. Grading them with a "B" is still like an 85% on a test which is pretty solid, quite honestly.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:03 pm    Post subject:

A+ Happy to see DLO go.
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CervantesRises
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:51 pm    Post subject:

Car54 wrote:
krisobe wrote:
Ball/Kuzma >>>>>>>> DLO


BALL DLO>>>>>>>>>>>>BALL Kuzma


Hard to have this opinion when you factor in D and runouts...
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:01 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
CervantesRises wrote:
So my question is...if you gave a grade below an A what could they have done differently to be able to earn an A?

Else...there was no scenario they could have earned an A.


You don't get an A as a participation award. You don't get an A for not being Jim Buss. You have to achieve something.

Furthermore, in our current posture, improving the roster for next season isn't the goal. We're looking to build a title team. I don't see how a couple one-year rentals advance that objective. As of now, Lopez and KCP are just placeholders for cap space. That's fine, but cap space is worth something only if you are able to use it to bring in a game changing player.

How would they have earned an A? I'm not a RealGM guy, so I'm not going to toss out hypothetical moves. If they had traded Russell for real value, I'd be more impressed. If they had gotten Paul George on board, I'd be more impressed. If they had made some other move that improved our real world trajectory beyond waiting for the kids to develop and hoping for free agents to arrive, I'd be more impressed.

Again, I don't mean to be Debbie Downer. This could all work out. But it is all contingent on free agents signing up, and I am still jaded from watching this approach fail ten years ago.


Of course you do...just own it.

And we also signed Shaq as a FA...so that approach is possible with the right FO...like the one we have now shaping narratives, tampering without breaking any rules, using Hollywood to recruit, and masterfully improving the roster while dramatically clearing cap space all in under 4 months.

It's ok to be skepticle.

It's ok to be doubtful based upon prior years.

It's even ok to hate on all that's going right finally...but just own it and know that 90% of us think this is at least a B offseason...in other words...be you.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:04 pm    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
Magic/Pelinka = Lonzo
Jesse Buss = Kuzma, Hart, Bryant (and JC and Nance)


Kuzma seems to be heavy Rob Pelinka and Magic imo.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:07 pm    Post subject:

CervantesRises wrote:
DancingBarry wrote:
Magic/Pelinka = Lonzo
Jesse Buss = Kuzma, Hart, Bryant (and JC and Nance)


Kuzma seems to be heavy Rob Pelinka and Magic imo.


That wasn't DB's opinion. He was stating a fact.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:32 pm    Post subject:

Im not sure but I don't think some people realize Just how much of a stud KCP is and how well he will work next to Lonzo - oh and yea he's a tier 1 defensive player
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:35 pm    Post subject:

evetssteve10 wrote:
Im not sure but I don't think some people realize Just how much of a stud KCP is and how well he will work next to Lonzo - oh and yea he's a tier 1 defensive player


He's actually not that. Listen to GT's last podcast. He goes through the stats pretty well. KCP does a lot of "eye test" stuff that makes him look good defensively, but is actually a slightly below average defender on most of the important play types. That still makes him a better defender than anyone we had last year, but, unfortunately, it does not make him an elite (or "tier 1") defensive player.

Still, KCP was a great get... and will offer a significant improvement for our team in a lot of ways.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:45 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
trablos wrote:
How would you guys rate them if we still had Dlo and Moz, but added ball and kuzma and didn't sign any FA's?


That's an interesting question. It depends on what you think about Russell. I had a higher opinion of him than a lot of people, but I trust the judgment of the front office that he was a problem. If that is what they thought of him, and they didn't move him when his value was still high, I would grade the front office a notch lower.


Magic and Rob took over from Mitch and Jim mid season last year so there weren't much if any opportunity to trade DLo. Best time to trade him was at the beginning of the season but Jim and Mitch weren't willing to let him go.

Judging by what kind of player Kuzma is so far in SL, I'd say we've got a helluva deal getting a starting caliber player that makes the team much better while shredding a huge contract for a player that has bust potential.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:50 pm    Post subject:

^You are assuming we wouldn't have got Kuzma anyway with the 28th pick. I think we would have... we just wouldn't have Hart or Thomas.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:59 pm    Post subject:

Car54 wrote:
DancingBarry wrote:
KindCrippler2000 wrote:
After the last game on ESPN, Luke said he was thrilled the FO was able to get KCP. Said there's a different vibe/energy with the new management. They are beginning to attract high-caliber free agents.

Also, it's not a surprise PG expressed his interest in joining the Lakers after the management change. This ain't a coincidence, people. Players want to be here.


Even if free agents don't actually want to be here, we are owning the narrative that they do. Glad to hear Luke repeating that same mantra. That's a huge difference from previous off seasons where the press's favorite story was how the mighty have fallen and can't even get a meeting with quality free agents. We've flipped the narrative on its head and that's a great start (and at the same time seeing CP3 leave the Clippers makes them suddenly more Clipperish again...too bad they picked up West, though).


Jeanies mouth piece is more responsive for the past negatives more than anything. She learned from the best Phil


Even if that's true, which I don't concede, we should be on our hands and knees thanking Jeanie for keeping us from signing the guys we were after. Seriously, in hindsight missing out on Melo, Aldridge, Howard, etc was the best thing that could have happened to us since the shine wore off of all of those guys really, really quickly. Crippling us with Deng and Moz was the worst thing they did and more than justified them getting fired.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:39 am    Post subject:

M2K wrote:
trablos wrote:
How would you guys rate them if we still had Dlo and Moz, but added ball and kuzma and didn't sign any FA's?


See... there's a catch to this option. I would rather have traded Randle / Clarkson in a salary dump and kept DLO.

I believe Magic chose to keep Randle and trade DLO. My problem with that is... I don't see Randle ceiling anywhere near as high as DLOs.


I agree with this. I believe you could have dumped Moz with Randle+a 1st (from 3rd team for JC)
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:30 am    Post subject:

CervantesRises wrote:
Of course you do...just own it.

And we also signed Shaq as a FA...so that approach is possible with the right FO...like the one we have now shaping narratives, tampering without breaking any rules, using Hollywood to recruit, and masterfully improving the roster while dramatically clearing cap space all in under 4 months.

It's ok to be skepticle.

It's ok to be doubtful based upon prior years.

It's even ok to hate on all that's going right finally...but just own it and know that 90% of us think this is at least a B offseason...in other words...be you.


When you start addressing the poster instead of the post, you are heading in the wrong direction. A few pages ago, you were calling me irrational, and other posters were chastising you for it. I just ignored it, but now you're crossing the line again.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:50 am    Post subject:

mhan00 wrote:
Even if that's true, which I don't concede, we should be on our hands and knees thanking Jeanie for keeping us from signing the guys we were after. Seriously, in hindsight missing out on Melo, Aldridge, Howard, etc was the best thing that could have happened to us since the shine wore off of all of those guys really, really quickly.


Jeanie kept us from signing those guys? I don't know about that. Anyway, I was against chasing Carmelo, I was lukewarm about LMA, and I was relieved when Howard bailed. This makes me sympathetic to what you're saying. However, there is a catch. Whoever you want the team to sign (such as Paul George) could be the next player to lose his shine. About 12 years ago, we were hearing all about Carlos Boozer and Marcus Banks.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:00 am    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
CervantesRises wrote:
DancingBarry wrote:
Magic/Pelinka = Lonzo
Jesse Buss = Kuzma, Hart, Bryant (and JC and Nance)


Kuzma seems to be heavy Rob Pelinka and Magic imo.


That wasn't DB's opinion. He was stating a fact.


Link that proves this?

Everything we've heard has been about Magic and Rob scounting him in Chicago and moving him up the board from 2nd to 1st round and this being why they rejected the initial DLo/Moz trade because it didnt include a 1st.

And in the new FO I doubt any of them look at it like this...these are team picks...they are functioning as a team...as quoted by Jesse during the Trudell interview 6 days before the draft.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:04 am    Post subject:

justsomelakerfan wrote:
- The 2018 plan is very frustrating to go through again, to shrug off development of young talent long-term to win now, while the Golden State Warriors are somehow assembling teams better than the last year and every single team in the West is becoming a super team. I hate this plan and it marks the return of Lakers Exceptionalism, which was killing the Lakers a couple years ago in their free agency meetings. Gotta learn that stars won't come to LA "just because it's LA," develop young players and take the long road so they're ready to shine when the current titans are beyond their prime.


I hope that Magic and Pelinka understand this. But I like the fact that Magic is proactively marketing the Lakers as a free agent destination.
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CervantesRises
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:09 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
CervantesRises wrote:
Of course you do...just own it.

And we also signed Shaq as a FA...so that approach is possible with the right FO...like the one we have now shaping narratives, tampering without breaking any rules, using Hollywood to recruit, and masterfully improving the roster while dramatically clearing cap space all in under 4 months.

It's ok to be skepticle.

It's ok to be doubtful based upon prior years.

It's even ok to hate on all that's going right finally...but just own it and know that 90% of us think this is at least a B offseason...in other words...be you.


When you start addressing the poster instead of the post, you are heading in the wrong direction. A few pages ago, you were calling me irrational, and other posters were chastising you for it. I just ignored it, but now you're crossing the line again.


1 poster came to your defense...3 chastized him for it.

This is a fourm where general and direct communication are appropriate.

Your opinions are just as welcomed as mine.

Nothing I have said is derogatory.

You have said several times in this thread that you don't mean to be a Debbie Downer...which in your own words states that you realize you're being one.

I'm encouraging you to own it...it's your opinion...I definitely do not agree with it...but you have a right to it...and I have a right to comment on it generally or directly provided my response it respectful and backed up with some detail to support my pov.

I have done this...

The wrong direction would be for me to start talking ill to you or of you...I haven't done this in the slightest. There has been zero disrespect intended...I hope you can see that.
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Lakeshow1843
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:18 am    Post subject:

https://www.reddit.com/r/lakers/comments/6nkwfq/someone_explain_this_why_didnt_we_wait_til_next/?st=J56V0UYQ&sh=199eb25d
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:40 am    Post subject:

Lakeshow1843 wrote:
https://www.reddit.com/r/lakers/comments/6nkwfq/someone_explain_this_why_didnt_we_wait_til_next/?st=J56V0UYQ&sh=199eb25d


Not quite sure if you are sharing this because of the question, or the answer, but the answers are on the money. By trading now, we could take back an expiring. Trading in a year would have been much more difficult as we would have to find a team that could absorb the cap space for Mozgov and other assets.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:27 am    Post subject:

CervantesRises wrote:
1 poster came to your defense...3 chastized him for it.


This is your response? Okay, let me be clear. I really don't care what you think about me, and I really don't care about your attempts to play amateur psychologist with other posters. If you can't limit yourself to addressing the substance of my posts, please just ignore them. I will do my best to ignore anything you say from this time forward.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:35 am    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
evetssteve10 wrote:
Im not sure but I don't think some people realize Just how much of a stud KCP is and how well he will work next to Lonzo - oh and yea he's a tier 1 defensive player


He's actually not that. Listen to GT's last podcast. He goes through the stats pretty well. KCP does a lot of "eye test" stuff that makes him look good defensively, but is actually a slightly below average defender on most of the important play types. That still makes him a better defender than anyone we had last year, but, unfortunately, it does not make him an elite (or "tier 1") defensive player.

Still, KCP was a great get... and will offer a significant improvement for our team in a lot of ways.


I definitely understand what the numbers say, but I always take an extra step back from the actual numbers. KCP wasn't the only player with a down year on defense. Same with Drummond and others. It's bad enough that SVG plays old school 90s basketball, and completely speculatory on my part, the entire team wasn't as bought in as they could have been.

However, given that KCP has actually shown flashes against elite NBA players, is a big deal. Sure, it may be less than a handful of possessions, but it would be a player that actually has the ability to do it.

I think there are certain things that looking at Lonzo from UCLA offensively didn't directly translate to Vegas Pro League right away. It's already a huge difference in terms of attacking, shot selection, off-ball play, and no wonder why his FG% from 2-point range dropped 20%. It just wasn't sustainable, and it's being reflected at this level.

I do expect KCP to get sub-average defensive #s, again, but that doesn't mean he won't have more than his share of plays that say, "That guy can absolutely defend." The Lakers don't exactly have great defensive anchors and KCP is the only real wing defender. Losing Nwaba didn't help.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:57 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
justsomelakerfan wrote:
- The 2018 plan is very frustrating to go through again, to shrug off development of young talent long-term to win now, while the Golden State Warriors are somehow assembling teams better than the last year and every single team in the West is becoming a super team. I hate this plan and it marks the return of Lakers Exceptionalism, which was killing the Lakers a couple years ago in their free agency meetings. Gotta learn that stars won't come to LA "just because it's LA," develop young players and take the long road so they're ready to shine when the current titans are beyond their prime.


I hope that Magic and Pelinka understand this. But I like the fact that Magic is proactively marketing the Lakers as a free agent destination.


We actually got younger this offseason and if the max guys don't come they will still be working in a buyer's market in free agency with lots of space. I disliked the Russell deal but Lopez, Kuzma and that opportunity wasn't exactly a poor return. Plus, Lonzo brings the type of attention guys want.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:05 am    Post subject:

I was very impressed with last night's game. Kuzma is showing me a lot, and Vander Blue plays with a chip on his shoulder which I love. Magic/Pelinka have to get an A so far. I can't wait for the season to start, and I haven't said that in 3 years. Let's go Lakers!
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