Joined: 12 Jan 2008 Posts: 3820 Location: Anaheim, CA
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:18 am Post subject:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Passing is not playmaking. Playmaking is setting teammates up to score or lead to another score. Making an open pass is good, playmaking is more of a process.
Have you seen him pass the ball? He does so in a variety of ways, including showing some nice 'playmaking' upside in SL
We have Lonzo, Ingram, and hopefullly another star wing, who will handle the brunt of playmaking duties
We can have 5 guys playmaking. Lopez isn't great but he is better than most, plus Ball, KCP, Ingram and Randle can initiate. We are definitely becoming more versatile offensively, that needs to spread to defense.
Shooting from a player is better at spreading the defense than playmaking
Strongly disagree, without playmaking you either don't get the shot or you play street ball. Our offense isn't designed around street ball.
The point is to put the ball in the hoop, do you want a PF who's going to pass up the most open shot in the possession, in the flow, to go playmake for a less optimal shot?
The playmaking necessary from a PF, Kuzma has that and more (Julius could be elite at it). But shooting is obviously king in this league - especially from a non playmaking position (where Kuzma still gives you enough playmaking).. it's better to have a well-rounded player, when shooting's in that mix , and so is above avg playmaking at the position. Randle is currently inept at too important of a facet.
If Randle is an avg shooter, Kuzma needs to be abv average to trump his impact - yes.
And where do those shots come from? Someone making plays. And it doesn't matter what position it comes from, the more the better.
The most important scenerio is the one I outlined at the top of my last post..
The playmaker you're championing passes up the most open,best shot in the possession, to go 'make' the vaunted 'play' you covet .. that's not good basketball. Overrating passing to underrate putting the ball in the hoop, is futile
That's the thing with Randle that he will have to change about his game. He passes up shots sometimes to just dribble and pass to a teammate for a less efficient shot. Totally opposite of Ball.
Im gonna be quite honest. Randle is a me first player. He likes to look pretty instead of being good. He tries to SWAG too much.
1. Defense is HORRIBLE!!! ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE! And its more because of a lack of effort from what I see on the court. He wants to try to be a scorer first and foremost so he isn't engaged on defense which hangs the team out to dry.
2. He tries to drive the lane like hes a Guard and most of the time he just turns the ball over because of how sloppy and careless he is.
3. He cherry picks his rebounds. As a PF you should be in the paint doing some dirty work. He does not. Sits back and waits for the ball to come to him.
4. Soft at the rim. Whether its cuz he has short arms or he just wants to look pretty with his layups but he tries to finesse too much when you should just throw it down.
5. He is a Prima donna. Was listening to 710 last year and they were talking about how Luke had to call Randle and kiss his ass to see if he was ok after Luke tried to coach him up and was a little hard on him. That type of negativity rubs off on young players. Cant baby these girls.
6. Last but not least, his jump shot is awful.
What I would prefer on the court is for Nance to start because he is a more well rounded player and doesn't stagger the team with his defensive play. Then have Randle off the bench and Kuzma splitting minutes. Kuzma is looking like he will be good on both sides of the ball. He has a nice spot up shot and he also plays good defense.
Just my 2 cents.
Fixed
LMAO
oh me oh my _________________ one dog goes that way the other dog goes the other way
Quietly the Lakers found some possible low-cost replacements for JC/Jules with Hart/Kuzma. I think Jules has a fighting chance to stay on the team, but Kuzma is certainly flashing that stretch forward game that Luke has been craving.
The shooting ability has been great for sure. The part that has me even more bullish on Kuz is his passing. He's a VERY talented passer.
Exactly. The "playmaking" gripe is freaking ridiculous
Passing is not playmaking. Playmaking is setting teammates up to score or lead to another score. Making an open pass is good, playmaking is more of a process.
Have you seen him pass the ball? He does so in a variety of ways, including showing some nice 'playmaking' upside in SL
We have Lonzo, Ingram, and hopefullly another star wing, who will handle the brunt of playmaking duties
We can have 5 guys playmaking. Lopez isn't great but he is better than most, plus Ball, KCP, Ingram and Randle can initiate. We are definitely becoming more versatile offensively, that needs to spread to defense.
Shooting from a player is better at spreading the defense than playmaking
Strongly disagree, without playmaking you either don't get the shot or you play street ball. Our offense isn't designed around street ball.
The point is to put the ball in the hoop, do you want a PF who's going to pass up the most open shot in the possession, in the flow, to go playmake for a less optimal shot?
The playmaking necessary from a PF, Kuzma has that and more (Julius could be elite at it). But shooting is obviously king in this league - especially from a non playmaking position (where Kuzma still gives you enough playmaking).. it's better to have a well-rounded player, when shooting's in that mix , and so is above avg playmaking at the position. Randle is currently inept at too important of a facet.
If Randle is an avg shooter, Kuzma needs to be abv average to trump his impact - yes.
And where do those shots come from? Someone making plays. And it doesn't matter what position it comes from, the more the better.
The most important scenerio is the one I outlined at the top of my last post..
The playmaker you're championing passes up the most open,best shot in the possession, to go 'make' the vaunted 'play' you covet .. that's not good basketball. Overrating passing to underrate putting the ball in the hoop, is futile
That's the thing with Randle that he will have to change about his game. He passes up shots sometimes to just dribble and pass to a teammate for a less efficient shot. Totally opposite of Ball.
Exactly, that's not efficient playmaking/basketball
Passing is not playmaking. Playmaking is setting teammates up to score or lead to another score. Making an open pass is good, playmaking is more of a process.
Have you seen him pass the ball? He does so in a variety of ways, including showing some nice 'playmaking' upside in SL
We have Lonzo, Ingram, and hopefullly another star wing, who will handle the brunt of playmaking duties
We can have 5 guys playmaking. Lopez isn't great but he is better than most, plus Ball, KCP, Ingram and Randle can initiate. We are definitely becoming more versatile offensively, that needs to spread to defense.
Shooting from a player is better at spreading the defense than playmaking
Strongly disagree, without playmaking you either don't get the shot or you play street ball. Our offense isn't designed around street ball.
The point is to put the ball in the hoop, do you want a PF who's going to pass up the most open shot in the possession, in the flow, to go playmake for a less optimal shot?
The playmaking necessary from a PF, Kuzma has that and more (Julius could be elite at it). But shooting is obviously king in this league - especially from a non playmaking position (where Kuzma still gives you enough playmaking).. it's better to have a well-rounded player, when shooting's in that mix , and so is above avg playmaking at the position. Randle is currently inept at too important of a facet.
If Randle is an avg shooter, Kuzma needs to be abv average to trump his impact - yes.
And where do those shots come from? Someone making plays. And it doesn't matter what position it comes from, the more the better.
The most important scenerio is the one I outlined at the top of my last post..
The playmaker you're championing passes up the most open,best shot in the possession, to go 'make' the vaunted 'play' you covet .. that's not good basketball. Overrating passing to underrate putting the ball in the hoop, is futile
That's the thing with Randle that he will have to change about his game. He passes up shots sometimes to just dribble and pass to a teammate for a less efficient shot. Totally opposite of Ball.
This is why Ball made so much sense....if he gets the ball to Julius in his sweet spots he might actually be more aggressive
To me, there's a contradiction hidden in this latest twist with Randle as a transition finisher.
Some fans envision Randle being the juiciest transition scorer but it seems at odds with his likely role, based on where I see he actually plays well. The area of the game that Randle seems to have exceptional potential is rebounding, the interior game.
If the Lakers send him leaking off the boards early to be a recipient of a transition pass from Lonzo, who's getting that rebound anyway ? Randle can't be hanging around the perimeter as a non-shooting threat.
The transition game at its UCLA Lonzo best had the perimeter players getting out first into transition and finishing. At UCLA, Lonzo would hit Leaf, Alford and Hamilton most often, who leaked early from spots well behind the arc. Randle may have good foot speed for someone his size and it may be natural to want to extend his usage, but he's starting three steps further from arc than any natural perimeter player. It's gonna be Ingram, Clarkson, and the fastest players we want to see out ahead of the defense, in transition, not Julius.
In terms of half court play, we'll have to see how well Lonzo can hit guys for scores against a real NBA defense. He didn't excel at that even in college.
Big men who can shoot will flourish with Lonzo (i.e. Leaf/Welsh, and likely Kuz/Brook on the Lakers). _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Kuzma's floor spacing and synergy with Ball (so far) would seem to make him a likely better starter, if he adjusts well to the real season after summer.
Likewise, Randle's energy and skillset would probably be maximized feasting on other second units off the bench. And if he plateaus too much, he could make a decent trade piece if the FO recognizes the plateau before the rest of the league.
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:39 pm Post subject:
70sdude wrote:
To me, there's a contradiction hidden in this latest twist with Randle as a transition finisher.
Some fans envision Randle being the juiciest transition scorer but it seems at odds with his likely role, based on where I see he actually plays well. The area of the game that Randle seems to have exceptional potential is rebounding, the interior game.
If the Lakers send him leaking off the boards early to be a recipient of a transition pass from Lonzo, who's getting that rebound anyway ? Randle can't be hanging around the perimeter as a non-shooting threat.
The transition game at its UCLA Lonzo best had the perimeter players getting out first into transition and finishing. At UCLA, Lonzo would hit Leaf, Alford and Hamilton most often, who leaked early from spots well behind the arc. Randle may have good foot speed for someone his size and it may be natural to want to extend his usage, but he's starting three steps further from arc than any natural perimeter player. It's gonna be Ingram, Clarkson, and the fastest players we want to see out ahead of the defense, in transition, not Julius.
And when he does gather the rebound does he scratch the play like Draymond and it bring it up himself? The few times Vander Blue trotted it up last night it was like nails on a chalkboard compared to how fast Zo zips it up.
Kuzma's floor spacing and synergy with Ball (so far) would seem to make him a likely better starter, if he adjusts well to the real season after summer.
Likewise, Randle's energy and skillset would probably be maximized feasting on other second units off the bench. And if he plateaus too much, he could make a decent trade piece if the FO recognizes the plateau before the rest of the league.
Yes?
Imagine what Randle right now would look like against the same competition and on those leak outs with Lonzo in tow... _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk
Kuzma's floor spacing and synergy with Ball (so far) would seem to make him a likely better starter, if he adjusts well to the real season after summer.
Likewise, Randle's energy and skillset would probably be maximized feasting on other second units off the bench. And if he plateaus too much, he could make a decent trade piece if the FO recognizes the plateau before the rest of the league.
Yes?
Imagine what Randle right now would look like against the same competition and on those leak outs with Lonzo in tow...
Kuzma has a great looking 3 that spaces the floor really well.
he also doesn't hold the ball too much _________________ Now Playing: The Zo Show @Staples
Kuzma's floor spacing and synergy with Ball (so far) would seem to make him a likely better starter, if he adjusts well to the real season after summer.
Likewise, Randle's energy and skillset would probably be maximized feasting on other second units off the bench. And if he plateaus too much, he could make a decent trade piece if the FO recognizes the plateau before the rest of the league.
Yes?
Imagine what Randle right now would look like against the same competition and on those leak outs with Lonzo in tow...
Kuzma has a great looking 3 that spaces the floor really well.
he also doesn't hold the ball too much
Randle holds the ball last season in order to look for his teammates to make the proper pass, not run down the shot clock and look to iso. If you saw him last year and weren't still judging him on his rookie season you'd see that.
If Kuzma held the ball for 5 seconds and then found Zubac for a wide open opportunity would you say Kuzma was "holding the ball too long" or searching for the right play?
That is what Randle does.
You watch games like this
or this
And see how bad some of ya'll underrate him and hyperbole his 'weaknesses'. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk
Last edited by MJST on Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:35 pm; edited 2 times in total
At worst, Kuzma can be a 6th man PF, but I can see the competition b/w he and Jules for the PF down the road as a fair match. He brings things that Jules doesn't have in his arsenal right now, namely shooting and team defense.
Jules is a better rebounder, ball handler, and passer in transition (though I think passing vision wise they may be equals).
It's good to have someone challenge and push Jules. Nance had his moments but was never that threat to Jules. Nance is likely a career role player.
Nance has been better than Randle in each of the last two seasons.
At worst, Kuzma can be a 6th man PF, but I can see the competition b/w he and Jules for the PF down the road as a fair match. He brings things that Jules doesn't have in his arsenal right now, namely shooting and team defense.
Jules is a better rebounder, ball handler, and passer in transition (though I think passing vision wise they may be equals).
It's good to have someone challenge and push Jules. Nance had his moments but was never that threat to Jules. Nance is likely a career role player.
Nance has been better than Randle in each of the last two seasons.
At worst, Kuzma can be a 6th man PF, but I can see the competition b/w he and Jules for the PF down the road as a fair match. He brings things that Jules doesn't have in his arsenal right now, namely shooting and team defense.
Jules is a better rebounder, ball handler, and passer in transition (though I think passing vision wise they may be equals).
It's good to have someone challenge and push Jules. Nance had his moments but was never that threat to Jules. Nance is likely a career role player.
Nance has been better than Randle in each of the last two seasons.
I don't know what's so funny about Nance having big advantages in BPM, RPM, and NETRTG. Nance has been the more effective player for us. Randle has been gifted with the starting position mainly on draft position and perceived upside. But now that he's due for a contract extension and has a cap hold that stands in the way of the 2 max plan, he's officially on the hot seat. He's going to have to transform his game to stick with the team long term.
At worst, Kuzma can be a 6th man PF, but I can see the competition b/w he and Jules for the PF down the road as a fair match. He brings things that Jules doesn't have in his arsenal right now, namely shooting and team defense.
Jules is a better rebounder, ball handler, and passer in transition (though I think passing vision wise they may be equals).
It's good to have someone challenge and push Jules. Nance had his moments but was never that threat to Jules. Nance is likely a career role player.
Nance has been better than Randle in each of the last two seasons.
At worst, Kuzma can be a 6th man PF, but I can see the competition b/w he and Jules for the PF down the road as a fair match. He brings things that Jules doesn't have in his arsenal right now, namely shooting and team defense.
Jules is a better rebounder, ball handler, and passer in transition (though I think passing vision wise they may be equals).
It's good to have someone challenge and push Jules. Nance had his moments but was never that threat to Jules. Nance is likely a career role player.
Nance has been better than Randle in each of the last two seasons.
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