|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Judah
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2015
Posts: 4759
|
 Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| MJST wrote: | | Lakerpark wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Megaton wrote: | If Randle doesn't make any significant improvements on his shooting in the first 20 or so games, then he's gone.
. |
He'd still have a bigger impact than Kuzma would. Cause Randle's the better rebounder, passer, ball handler, half court player, transition decision maker, finisher, decision maker in general, overall player and overall talent, than Kuzma, and it's not close. |
I know it's just Summer League so far, but Kuzma seems like a better running mate to go with Lonzo. Kuzma's ability to catch and shoot especially from 3 theoretically gives him an edge over Randle's "hold the ball and think about what to do" style. JMO
Now if Randle comes back with a whole new game, we'll see. |
Except that's not Julius's style. Again, outside of his rookie season. Last year whenever he held the ball and 'thought' it was because he was looking to make the right play to a teammate. |
Exactly. I'm at the point where I'm starting not to take certain people seriously when they speak of Randle as if he wasn't a totally different player offensively last year compared to his rookie year.
When Randle is out at the top of the key with the ball in his hands for more than 5 seconds and you think he's just "thinking about what to do" then all you're showing is that you're a ball watcher during games and pay very little attention to what's happening off the ball. Luke has him playing in the Draymond role of the offense, surveying the floor and directing traffic. When he held the ball as a rookie it was because he was playing in Byron's free, all you can chuck/'I can chuck better than you' offense. He wasn't doing that last year.
_________________
“Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
- John Piper
Last edited by Judah on Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
greenfrog
Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jan 2011
Posts: 36081
Location: 502 Bad Gateway
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| lakerdynasty5.0 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | lakerdynasty5.0 wrote: | | imho, he'd do fine against stretch 4s, but would have a real hard time with the more traditional "power" forwards! |
So? Let them (whoever these "power" forwards are) try to check him in transition, and on the perimeter. |
No doubt he'll exploit the mismatches, especially out on the perimeter, however like tonight, we'll give up a lot of rebounds: opponents will get plenty second-shots, and good teams will make us pay! |
It's not that bad a thing, though, if he's leaking out in transition, and Ball is cleaning up on the glass. We actually only lost the rebound battle by 3 tonight. I'll take that trade any day. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lakerpark
Star Player
Joined: 09 Nov 2002
Posts: 2117
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The most frustrating thing to me about Randle (and Nance) is how they would not take high percentage (for most players) mid range shots. To me, a great opportunity not taken advantage of is a waste.
So far from what we've seen, Kuzma will take the shot and usually make it...without hesitation. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cochese
Starting Rotation
Joined: 23 Apr 2016
Posts: 957
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| As long as Randle can't shoot or play defense the door will be open. I don't expect Kuzma to start this season though, its asking a lot from a late first round pick. He's looked great in summer league, I'll give him that.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MAJIC
Star Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 3320
Location: OC
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Julius has worked his tail off all off season from what I've seen and heard, but if his outside shot hasn't improved significantly then it's time to look elsewhere at the 4. Same goes for LNJ to be honest, but he's got a lower expectation level than Julius. Where LNJ could be an energy/role player specialist, and sort of get away with his lack of outside shot off the bench, JR can't. Especially playing with Lonzo in Luke's system.
(Think of the drives and dish's from Lonzo to Zubac and Bryant so far in summer league)
From what I've seen so far with Kuzma, he brings a more controlled skill-set to the table. The dude is just smooth as silk.
Very promising at the very least, and I know I know it's just summer league.
Like it was mentioned though earlier in this thread if JR doesn't show improvement, specifically his outside shot, I wouldn't be surprised if Kuzma eventually takes his spot. But that's a big if. Hopefully JR improved and this is a moot point! (Because we need his toughness and banging down low).
_________________
16 and counting.... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lakers2015
Star Player
Joined: 16 Feb 2015
Posts: 2315
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| MJST wrote: | | Megaton wrote: | If Randle doesn't make any significant improvements on his shooting in the first 20 or so games, then he's gone.
. |
He'd still have a bigger impact than Kuzma would. Cause Randle's the better rebounder, passer, ball handler, half court player, transition decision maker, finisher, decision maker in general, overall player and overall talent, than Kuzma, and it's not close. |
No he won't because Randle can't shoot or play defense both of which Kuzma has already shown he is adept at.
If you can't shoot, play defense, and don't have a very high basketball IQ you probably don't have much of a future in this league as a starter.
_________________
#CowboysNation
#LakeShow |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LakerDynasty6.0
Star Player
Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Posts: 4655
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| greenfrog wrote: | | lakerdynasty5.0 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | lakerdynasty5.0 wrote: | | imho, he'd do fine against stretch 4s, but would have a real hard time with the more traditional "power" forwards! |
So? Let them (whoever these "power" forwards are) try to check him in transition, and on the perimeter. |
No doubt he'll exploit the mismatches, especially out on the perimeter, however like tonight, we'll give up a lot of rebounds: opponents will get plenty second-shots, and good teams will make us pay! |
It's not that bad a thing, though, if he's leaking out in transition, and Ball is cleaning up on the glass. We actually only lost the rebound battle by 3 tonight. I'll take that trade any day. |
Just 3? Felt a lot worse 
_________________
Starting Lakers Dynasty6.0! NOW!!
------
....." each year in Lakerland is marked by four seasons: Kobe’s Mad at His Teammates; Kobe’s Shooting Too Much; Kobe Leads the Victory Parade; Kobe Receives His Championship Ring." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MJST
Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26309
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Lakers2015 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Megaton wrote: | If Randle doesn't make any significant improvements on his shooting in the first 20 or so games, then he's gone.
. |
He'd still have a bigger impact than Kuzma would. Cause Randle's the better rebounder, passer, ball handler, half court player, transition decision maker, finisher, decision maker in general, overall player and overall talent, than Kuzma, and it's not close. |
No he won't because Randle can't shoot or play defense both of which Kuzma has already shown he is adept at.
|
In Summer League.
All you've really got for Kuzma is that he's shown to be a better shooter in summer league. Have you seen Kuzma switch off on NBA point guards and stop them yet? Have you seen Kuzma get such a rep when he switches on point guards that the scouting report is to shoot instead of try to beat him off the dribble which is what point guards usually want to do, but not against Randle on switches? Probably not.
The only thing you can take away from Summer League is that Kuzma would be a better three point shooter, but that's about it.
Some of ya'll make such a hyperbole about Randle's "deficiencies' it's as if ya'll never watched him outside of his rookie season.
_________________
How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk
Last edited by MJST on Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LakerLogic
Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 17886
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| LeBron will be a good backup to Kuzma. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MJST
Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26309
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Judah wrote: |
Exactly. I'm at the point where I'm starting not to take certain people seriously when they speak of Randle as if he wasn't a totally different player offensively last year compared to his rookie year.
When Randle is out at the top of the key with the ball in his hands for more than 5 seconds and you think he's just "thinking about what to do" then all you're showing is that you're a ball watcher during games and pay very little attention to what's happening off the ball. Luke has him playing in the Draymond role of the offense, surveying the floor and directing traffic. When he held the ball as a rookie it was because he was playing in Byron's free, all you can chuck/'I can chuck better than you' offense. He wasn't doing that last year. |
Pretty much. They all say the same thing
"Can't shoot, can't play D, low basketball IQ, can't finish, holds the ball too long" it's like they never watched his 2nd season.
_________________
How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dao
Star Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2013
Posts: 5572
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
To directly answer the OP, no, I don't think there's any significant chance that Kuzma starts at PF. If Randle transforms into a solid defender and shooter, then he has a chance stick with the team longterm. If he does not significantly improve his defense and shooting, we will likely let him walk next offseason. And it will not be Kuzma starting at PF, it will be Ingram or Lebron.
Lonzo-George-Ingram-Lebron-Nance
or
Lonzo-KCP-George-Ingram-Cousins
Last edited by dao on Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
splashmtn
Star Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| lakerdynasty5.0 wrote: | | imho, he'd do fine against stretch 4s, but would have a real hard time with the more traditional "power" forwards! |
and name those traditional PF's that matter?
old man Zbo?
Who else?
Old man Lemarcus..nope. stretch big.
who? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Vadorojo
Star Player
Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 1507
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Competition for roster spots is always good, particularly among young players. I hope Kuzma, Randle and Nance all run hard and play their butts off on both ends of the floor knowing that there's a guy eager for minutes waiting on the bench.
_________________
"I like looking at a guy's face when he realizes that even his best moves aren't going to work on me all night. They look depressed." - Ron Artest |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KeepItRealOrElse
Retired Number
Joined: 11 Oct 2012
Posts: 32767
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| MJST wrote: | | Judah wrote: |
Exactly. I'm at the point where I'm starting not to take certain people seriously when they speak of Randle as if he wasn't a totally different player offensively last year compared to his rookie year.
When Randle is out at the top of the key with the ball in his hands for more than 5 seconds and you think he's just "thinking about what to do" then all you're showing is that you're a ball watcher during games and pay very little attention to what's happening off the ball. Luke has him playing in the Draymond role of the offense, surveying the floor and directing traffic. When he held the ball as a rookie it was because he was playing in Byron's free, all you can chuck/'I can chuck better than you' offense. He wasn't doing that last year. |
Pretty much. They all say the same thing
"Can't shoot, can't play D, low basketball IQ, can't finish, holds the ball too long" it's like they never watched his 2nd season. |
I haven't said those things, and I'm iffy on Randle... comes down to shooting mainly, and defesne(although it's making steps to get to average one day) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dao
Star Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2013
Posts: 5572
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| MJST wrote: | | Lakerpark wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Megaton wrote: | If Randle doesn't make any significant improvements on his shooting in the first 20 or so games, then he's gone.
. |
He'd still have a bigger impact than Kuzma would. Cause Randle's the better rebounder, passer, ball handler, half court player, transition decision maker, finisher, decision maker in general, overall player and overall talent, than Kuzma, and it's not close. |
I know it's just Summer League so far, but Kuzma seems like a better running mate to go with Lonzo. Kuzma's ability to catch and shoot especially from 3 theoretically gives him an edge over Randle's "hold the ball and think about what to do" style. JMO
Now if Randle comes back with a whole new game, we'll see. |
Except that's not Julius's style. Again, outside of his rookie season. Last year whenever he held the ball and 'thought' it was because he was looking to make the right play to a teammate. |
Randle definitely has a tendency to let the ball stick to his hands too much imo. He's shown some flashes of quick decision making though, so hopefully Lonzo rubs off on him.
Last edited by dao on Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
r0663664
Starting Rotation
Joined: 16 Jun 2017
Posts: 224
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Let's see how both play at the start of the season. I think we will still start with Randle over Kuzma but Luke may move Randle to the 2nd unit if he bring zero value. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Don Draper
Retired Number
Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 28431
Location: LA --> Bay Area
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Regardless of who is starting I'd like to see the following lineup at some point:
Ball
KCP
Ingram
Kuzma
Randle |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Warren Coolidge
Sixth Man
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 74
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'm sure he could...
but to me Kuzma's value is more at the Small Forward.. he can stretch the floor..he can handle the ball...he can run...
I'd like to see a line up sometimes of Ingram at the 2 and Kuzma at the 3... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chronicle
Retired Number
Joined: 21 Jul 2012
Posts: 31935
Location: Manhattan
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Maybe. But let's see how randle and lopez play first
_________________
Kobe |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fracture
Star Player
Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 9318
Location: Planet Terror
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Whoever can hit 3's is going to be the best fit with Lonzo tbh.
Lopez will look great. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jhin0821
Starting Rotation
Joined: 06 Feb 2017
Posts: 279
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Randle probably fine for this season, but Nance should be worried. Kuzma got more polish than Nance after 2 seasons. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chronicle
Retired Number
Joined: 21 Jul 2012
Posts: 31935
Location: Manhattan
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Jhin0821 wrote: | | Randle probably fine for this season, but Nance should be worried. Kuzma got more polish than Nance after 2 seasons. |
If lopez is a one year rental, then there is no reason we can't keep all three of Randle/Nance/Kuzma
_________________
Kobe |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jhin0821
Starting Rotation
Joined: 06 Feb 2017
Posts: 279
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Chronicle wrote: | | Jhin0821 wrote: | | Randle probably fine for this season, but Nance should be worried. Kuzma got more polish than Nance after 2 seasons. |
If lopez is a one year rental, then there is no reason we can't keep all three of Randle/Nance/Kuzma |
Where's the PT for those guys, unless one of them playing heavy minutes at center but none of them protect the rim |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chronicle
Retired Number
Joined: 21 Jul 2012
Posts: 31935
Location: Manhattan
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Jhin0821 wrote: | | Chronicle wrote: | | Jhin0821 wrote: | | Randle probably fine for this season, but Nance should be worried. Kuzma got more polish than Nance after 2 seasons. |
If lopez is a one year rental, then there is no reason we can't keep all three of Randle/Nance/Kuzma |
Where's the PT for those guys, unless one of them playing heavy minutes at center but none of them protect the rim |
It really depends on how randle and nance have developed this summer but both of them can probably play some center. Let's say randle gets 20 at center, then 12 at pf, nance gets 12 at center and 12 at pf, and kuzma gets 24 at pf. Randle 32, nance 24 kuzma 24. Still leaves 14 minutes at center for bryant/zubac. Though kuzma could backup the 3 as well.
But really it's a bit early to think about this stuff too much. Let's see how randle and ingram, as well as nance and the others have developed. Let's see how lopez fits. Then let's see who we sign in 2018. Then we'll have a better idea
_________________
Kobe |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Goldenwest
Star Player
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2801
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
this is not even pre-season, people are getting a little too excited about summer league. Its pretty evident we have some nice rookies, but its too soon to anoint them starters - save for Ball.
I think Kuzma will be buried on the bench at least to start the season.
Deng, Nance, Randle should all be ahead of him in the pecking order to start the season. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
