Did Shaq make Kobe better?
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Tony Anapolis
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:08 pm    Post subject: Did Shaq make Kobe better?

Or was it the other way around?

And if you're going to say both. Which made the other more better please?

Of course you could say both, but realistically one made it much easier for the other imo.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:14 pm    Post subject:

Shaq made Kobe better because Shaq was the #1 option.

But I think Kobe helped Shaq too, just not as much.
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MickMgl
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Did Shaq make Kobe better?

Tony Anapolis wrote:
Or was it the other way around?

And if you're going to say both. Which made the other more better please?

Of course you could say both, but realistically one made it much easier for the other imo.


The difference is negligible, but I'd say Kobe slightly made Shaq mo' better. Shaq opened things up for spot-up shooters, but Kobe was a slasher. If anything, the lane was more crowded for Kobe because of Shaq. But they're both pretty self-made players, great in any setting.
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vanexelent
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:16 pm    Post subject:

I think both made each other bitter.
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BigBallerBrand
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:20 pm    Post subject:

Shaq was by far the more dominant and valuable player in the 3peat era.

But during those years, Kobe's jealousy and desire to become the alpha dog motivated him to get better. So yes, indirectly Shaq made Kobe better bc Kobe wouldn't stop until he was better than shaq and anyone else in the NBA
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:21 pm    Post subject:

vanexelent wrote:
I think both made each other bitter.



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:27 pm    Post subject:

vanexelent wrote:
I think both made each other bitter.


/endthread
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slavavov
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:29 pm    Post subject:

I think Kobe made Shaq a little better just by getting him a couple of easy baskets a game.

But I don't think Shaq made Kobe better. As MickMgl said above it was harder for Kobe to slash and post up with Shaq around.

I've also always thought that Shaq stunted Kobe's development socially, because Kobe wasn't allowed to assert himself and show leadership because of the dynamic of that team. I recently read Roland Lazenby's book about Kobe, which has a lot of behind the scenes stuff about his career. There are some quotes from the team's former equipment manager saying that Kobe started blossoming socially and leadership wise the first season after Shaq left.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:45 pm    Post subject:

Rick Fox made them both better. Took a paycut and let them have the shots.
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hype
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:48 pm    Post subject:

slavavov wrote:
I think Kobe made Shaq a little better just by getting him a couple of easy baskets a game.

But I don't think Shaq made Kobe better. As MickMgl said above it was harder for Kobe to slash and post up with Shaq around.

I've also always thought that Shaq stunted Kobe's development socially, because Kobe wasn't allowed to assert himself and show leadership because of the dynamic of that team. I recently read Roland Lazenby's book about Kobe, which has a lot of behind the scenes stuff about his career. There are some quotes from the team's former equipment manager saying that Kobe started blossoming socially and leadership wise the first season after Shaq left.


I agree with all that.

I also believe many people look back at there days together and mostly see the finals matchups when talking about who was more valuable. To be fair the real championship was the Western Conference Finals during that era much like it was in football for awhile with the 49ers and Cowboys. Kobe was absolutely an integral part when playing the Kings or Spurs especially late in the games when Shaq obviously could not be completely relied on. Kobe was phenomenal in much of those series on both ends.

In the end it is a toss up really, they were the two best players in basketball on the same team and both were clear alpha's.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:49 pm    Post subject:

What came first the chicken or the egg.
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deal
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:51 pm    Post subject:

PRLakeShow wrote:
vanexelent wrote:
I think both made each other bitter.





Absolutely
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:07 pm    Post subject:

Actually, I think the opposite occurred. When Shaq left, it forced Kobe to carry a bigger burden and become a better player.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:16 pm    Post subject:

PRLakeShow wrote:
vanexelent wrote:
I think both made each other bitter.




Well he aint lyin
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:47 pm    Post subject:

They obviously made each other better. Shaq was such a dominant force that Kobe had a ton of space to work with. Kobe's clutchness took a lot of pressure off Shaq at the end of close games.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:48 pm    Post subject:

First the former then the latter.
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Fastbreak32
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:50 pm    Post subject:

vanexelent wrote:
I think both made each other bitter.


This.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:46 pm    Post subject:

Their games were complimentary. I think how much Kobe improved the players around him has always been underrated. Pau never won a playoff game before Kobe, but after playing with him for part of a season was suddenly being called the most-skilled big man in the game.

Same is somewhat true for Shaq, who was an unstoppable player, but Kobe's D and ability to score in so many ways helped Shaq tremendously. If Kobe wasn't there, Shaq's poor free throw shooting in the 4th quarter would have been a real weapon for other teams to use.

To Shaq's credit, his presence gave Kobe a lot of time to develop without having to be the man.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:50 pm    Post subject:

Shaq made Kobe better. Kobe was young. Older Kobe made Pau better.
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ReaListik
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:06 am    Post subject:

Kobe's life was easier because of the open looks Shaq provided because he demanded so much defensive attention from players that tried to stop him.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:46 am    Post subject:

No doubt shaq made kobe better. As all dominant players do - they demand attention, allowing others to do more

But let's look at kobe's most dominant seasons. 2002, 2006, 2008, 2013. Most of those were without shaq

Many of the memorable parts of Kobe during his tenure with shaq were the ones where Kobe was taking over the game or winning the game while shaq was sidelined. Against the spurs for example. So there is that
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:06 am    Post subject:

If the question was meant to ask whether shaq made kobe a better player as in after their time together, I'd say no. I think Kobe would have been Kobe either way.

But while they played together? Yes, Shaq made Kobe better. Shaq was our first option on defense and our last line of defense that we funneled opposing players to. Additionally, defensively, teams had to game plan around Shaq first (though that was primarily because he was the first option more than anything).

Plus Kobe was like what 21/22 while shaq was in his prime?
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:31 am    Post subject:

"Iron sharpens Iron"
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:49 am    Post subject:

Shaq was a top player in the game before Kobe was in the league.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:55 am    Post subject:

Shaq wouldn't have his three rings with the Lakers if it weren't for Kobe...

Some people like to say Shaq could have won with McGrady, Iverson, or Carter. It's just slander to bring down Kobe. Shaq couldn't close the deal with almost the identically architected team he had in Orlando. He got the same team in Los Angeles and the only difference was Kobe instead of Penny.

McGrady, Iverson, Carter, and Penny were not the maniacal slaves to perfection that Shaq needed as his co-lead. Those guys would have followed Shaq's lead and been taking it easy along with Shaq instead of in the gym at 4 am like Kobe.

Shaq has been on the record multiple times stating how he needed coaching or opposing viewpoints to motivate him. Kobe wasn't the coach, but he was the opposing viewpoint which Shaq hated but had to account for. Shaq knew deep down inside that Kobe was not going to ever take it easy an would hold him accountable. From Shaq's perspective, this was an immediate threat to his ego. For as dominant as Shaq was, the Lakers don't beat Indiana in 2000 without Kobe. Shaq fouled out was in constant foul trouble this series. This is the same team that almost beat the Bulls in 1998.

Shaq also doesn't get through Sacremento or San Antonio without Kobe. Ball movement awareness and showing on pick n roll were Shaq's biggest weaknesses. Kobe was the one allowed Shaq to play his role once Phil told Kobe he needed him to play the role of Michael and Scottie.

I'm not going to discredit Shaq because I have deep trust in his game up to a certain point. But Kobe covered up a lot of basketball sins by Shaq. I mean a lot.

Shaq and Lebron are very similar in their impacts on the court... For as dominant as they both are, they are missing the piece that Kobe and Jordan have. A complete game both mentally and physically.
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