The Captain is way better then Air Jordan at Basketball
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activeverb
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:07 pm    Post subject:

Jellojigglin wrote:
I'm saying he's better at Basketball on the court, he achieved more then Jordan. Career achievements are close so his focus and dominance in all stats carry him as a clear winner. This is Jordan vs Captain I'm not talking about other players.

Championships and Seasons
NBA Championships
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 6
Michael Jordan 6

NBA Seasons
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 20
Michael Jordan 15

Playoffs Played
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 18
Michael Jordan 13

All-Star Games
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 19
Michael Jordan 14

Honors and Awards
Season MVP
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 6
Michael Jordan 5

Finals MVP
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 2
Michael Jordan 6

All-NBA First Team
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 10
Michael Jordan 10

All-NBA Teams
(Total Selections)
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 15
Michael Jordan 11

All-Defensive 1st Team
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 5
Michael Jordan 9

All-Defensive Teams
(Total Selections)
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 11
Michael Jordan 9

Defensive Player
of The Year
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 0 *
Michael Jordan 1

Scoring Leader
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 2
Michael Jordan 10

Rebounds Leader
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1
Michael Jordan 0
Steals Leader
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 0 *
Michael Jordan 3

Blocks Leader
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 4 *
Michael Jordan 0
Rookie of The Year
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1
Michael Jordan 1

* Notes: Defensive Player of The Year is awarded since 1982-83.
Blocks and steals started to be recorded in 1973-74.


Their overall accomplishments are roughly the same to me. Kareem gets the nod in all things related to longevity, the flip side is that Jordan accomplished as much as Kareem in much less time. Which is more important is in the eye of the beholder.

The biggest edge that Jordan has is he was the top guy on 6 Ring teams, while you could argue that Kareem was the top guy on only half of his ring teams. Again how important that is in the eye of the beholder.

And it's hard to dispute that people enjoy Jordan style of play more than they enjoy Kareem style of play. Again an eye of the beholder thing.

You could also argue that Jordan had a higher peak. But that will depend on how you measure Peak.

The bottom line, for me, is the case of Jordan vs. Kareem is anything but clear-cut. Personally I tend to go back and forth between them depending on my mood that day, because on different days I give different weight to the factors that favor one or the other
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Vic5150
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:33 pm    Post subject:

Fortysixn2 wrote:
Kareem is the Stat GOAT, Jordan is the chip/brand GOAT, Lebron is the physical dominance/health GOAT, Kobe is the work ethic GOAT, Magic is the Smiling GOAT.


The chip GOAT is Bill Russell otherwise good list.
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MJST
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:41 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
Jellojigglin wrote:
I'm saying he's better at Basketball on the court, he achieved more then Jordan. Career achievements are close so his focus and dominance in all stats carry him as a clear winner. This is Jordan vs Captain I'm not talking about other players.

Championships and Seasons
NBA Championships
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 6
Michael Jordan 6

NBA Seasons
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 20
Michael Jordan 15

Playoffs Played
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 18
Michael Jordan 13

All-Star Games
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 19
Michael Jordan 14

Honors and Awards
Season MVP
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 6
Michael Jordan 5

Finals MVP
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 2
Michael Jordan 6

All-NBA First Team
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 10
Michael Jordan 10

All-NBA Teams
(Total Selections)
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 15
Michael Jordan 11

All-Defensive 1st Team
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 5
Michael Jordan 9

All-Defensive Teams
(Total Selections)
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 11
Michael Jordan 9

Defensive Player
of The Year
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 0 *
Michael Jordan 1

Scoring Leader
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 2
Michael Jordan 10

Rebounds Leader
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1
Michael Jordan 0
Steals Leader
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 0 *
Michael Jordan 3

Blocks Leader
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 4 *
Michael Jordan 0
Rookie of The Year
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1
Michael Jordan 1

* Notes: Defensive Player of The Year is awarded since 1982-83.
Blocks and steals started to be recorded in 1973-74.


Their overall accomplishments are roughly the same to me. Kareem gets the nod in all things related to longevity, the flip side is that Jordan accomplished as much as Kareem in much less time. Which is more important is in the eye of the beholder.

The biggest edge that Jordan has is he was the top guy on 6 Ring teams, while you could argue that Kareem was the top guy on only half of his ring teams. Again how important that is in the eye of the beholder.

And it's hard to dispute that people enjoy Jordan style of play more than they enjoy Kareem style of play. Again an eye of the beholder thing.

You could also argue that Jordan had a higher peak. But that will depend on how you measure Peak.

The bottom line, for me, is the case of Jordan vs. Kareem is anything but clear-cut. Personally I tend to go back and forth between them depending on my mood that day, because on different days I give different weight to the factors that favor one or the other


Magic will be the first to tell you that Kareem was the man on each of those Championship teams but the 87 one where Riley had asked Magic to take offensive initiative some time prior and Magic asked if he'd cleared that with Kareem.

Kareem was also robbed of Finals MVP that first season Magic got it, it was mainly due to the game 6 performance from Magic but Kareem had carried that team through that Finals till he went down with injury and then CAME BACK in the same game and willed them to victory on one leg.

Something that sadly gets overlooked.
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activeverb
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:04 pm    Post subject:

That is certainly a nice, respectful thing for Magic to say about Kareem. And who knows Magic may actually believe it. I don't though.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:13 pm    Post subject:

MJ = greatest NBA player ever
Kareem = greatest basketball player to ever live

Kareem dominated at all levels, and since a young age. He went undefeated throughout high school I believe, and lost only two games in his entire career at UCLA (88-2). 3 time player of the year, 3 time NCAA champion.

Mike may have had a higher peak and was always the more popular figure, but the rise of American media and marketing had a lot to do with that during his era. Of course, Kareem's introverted and aloof personality didn't help. But again, you can say this was also a product of his environment. And Mike wasn't always the most feared and well-known star that Kareem was always billed to be. We all know he was cut from his HS team. Kareem would never have been in that position to begin with.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:14 pm    Post subject: Re: The Captain is way better then Air Jordan at Basketball

Jellojigglin wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Jellojigglin wrote:
Lately I have been surrounded with insane Jordan fans that talk about Jordan as the GOAT. If you separate Space Jam and selling custom Nikes with Basketball stats he doesn't compare.


Are you serious, or just having a little fun? I find it hard to believe that you just noticed that MJ is the consensus GOAT.

I enjoy researching players and older NBA teams to learn more everyday. This weekend I was reading up on Dennis Johnson as The MVP of the Sonics in 1979. I also read about the Philadelphia Warriors and the roster they had. Many of my friends are casual NBA fans that follow mainstream Sports history. I enjoy sharing cool things about great former players in this forum. This thread is my appreciation of the head to head matchup of the Captain vs Air Jordan. I think it's incorrect he is commented on as the greatest.


Hey, I'm cool with that. It just struck me as weird that you were suggesting that this was something new. If you want to rate Kareem as the GOAT, that's your privilege.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:23 pm    Post subject:

I have been telling people for years that Kareem is the GOAT. Jordan a close second.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:36 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Jordan is the GOAT....and probably will be for a very long time.



Pretty much.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:47 pm    Post subject: Re: The Captain is way better then Air Jordan at Basketball

Chronicle wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Jellojigglin wrote:
Lately I have been surrounded with insane Jordan fans that talk about Jordan as the GOAT. If you separate Space Jam and selling custom Nikes with Basketball stats he doesn't compare.


Are you serious, or just having a little fun? I find it hard to believe that you just noticed that MJ is the consensus GOAT.


Will there ever be a goat discussion thread where you dont come in and bother everyone


Would you like it if people referred to your presence in threads that interest you this way?
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:51 pm    Post subject:

People forget that as a pro, Kareem was a numbers producer throughout the seventies who didn't win for most of the decade, despite having solid talent around him in an era with fewnif any teams that anyone will refer to as among the greats. Magic changed all that instantly.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:55 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
People forget that as a pro, Kareem was a numbers producer throughout the seventies who didn't win for most of the decade, despite having solid talent around him in an era with fewnif any teams that anyone will refer to as among the greats. Magic changed all that instantly.


What is your thoughts.....Jordan, right?
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Omar Little
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:15 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
People forget that as a pro, Kareem was a numbers producer throughout the seventies who didn't win for most of the decade, despite having solid talent around him in an era with fewnif any teams that anyone will refer to as among the greats. Magic changed all that instantly.


What is your thoughts.....Jordan, right?


Depends on the metrics. Several guys with a case, including Jordan, magic, and Russell.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:57 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
People forget that as a pro, Kareem was a numbers producer throughout the seventies who didn't win for most of the decade, despite having solid talent around him in an era with fewnif any teams that anyone will refer to as among the greats. Magic changed all that instantly.


Kareem always played well individually, but a lot of his Bucks teams got stopped in the playoffs by teams that had done about the same or much worse than the Bucks in the regular season. That happened with the Lakers before Magic joined them too.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:11 pm    Post subject:

I wasn't around in the 80s, but the thing that hurts Kareem's argument was that he wasn't dominant anymore for a few of his titles in the 80s, while Jordan was on top of his game all through the 90s. However, I know that Kareem won the finals MVP when he was 38, which is a phenomenal accomplishment if you let that thought marinate for a minute.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:34 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
People forget that as a pro, Kareem was a numbers producer throughout the seventies who didn't win for most of the decade, despite having solid talent around him in an era with fewnif any teams that anyone will refer to as among the greats. Magic changed all that instantly.


While I don't disagree with your bottom line, I'll defend Kareem a bit on that charge. I wouldn't call the supporting cast "solid talent" for many of those years. Here's the roster of the '76 Lakers, when Kareem won the MVP on a team with a losing record that missed the playoffs:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/1976.html

That's a bleak roster. Unless you are of a certain age, the only important player you've heard of is Gail Goodrich, who was 32 and starting his decline. (I'm not counting Stu Lantz, Kermit Washington, and Pat Riley, all of whom are remembered for other reasons. Riley got traded to the Suns early in the season.)

We were in a division with the defending champion Warriors, which was a juggernaut at the time (Barry, Wilkes, Ray, etc.). They got upset in the WCF by the Suns (Westphal, Adams, etc.), who lost to the Celtics in the Finals. Later, we got knocked out by the Bill Walton era Blazers and the great Sonics teams with Gus Williams, Jack Sikma, Freddie Brown, Dennis Johnson, and others. A lot of people don't remember those teams because they were just before the NBA really took off.

Having said that, you're certainly right that Kareem didn't win anything for a lot of years, until Magic arrived.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:38 pm    Post subject:

slavavov wrote:
I wasn't around in the 80s, but the thing that hurts Kareem's argument was that he wasn't dominant anymore for a few of his titles in the 80s, while Jordan was on top of his game all through the 90s. However, I know that Kareem won the finals MVP when he was 38, which is a phenomenal accomplishment if you let that though marinate for a minute.


On MJ's side, in the year of his second repeat before he retired, he won the regular season MVP at 35 (second oldest ever) and the Finals MVP (third oldest after Kareem and Wilt). That's a phenomenal accomplishment too.

If I made up an all-time longevity team of guys who achieved the most at the oldest age it would be:

First Team

C -- Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
PF - Karl Malone
SF - John Havlicek
SG - Michael Jordan
PG - John Stockton

Second Team

C - Wilt Chamberlain
PF - Tim Duncan
SF - Alex English
SG - Reggie Miller
PG - Jason Kidd
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:52 pm    Post subject:

MJ is the greatest basketball player of all time. Kareem was legendary and one of the all time greats, but MJ is #1. LeBron is not in Jordan's league. Kobe was the closest to MJ there has ever been.
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