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| Which backcourt is better? |
| Lonzo/Russell |
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19% |
[ 45 ] |
| Lonzo/KCP |
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80% |
[ 181 ] |
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| Total Votes : 226 |
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governator
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25079
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 Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:56 am Post subject: |
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| KCP cause he's a Laker now |
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LakerDYnasty72
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Joined: 18 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:25 am Post subject: |
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The OP wrote out a very clear and well written summary for the poll. As a matter of fact, you wrote it out too well! 
I mean, after reading the summary, it's like KCP & Lonzo complement each other so well because of their skill sets on both ends of the floor. That's the deciding factor for me, and that's also why 80 plus percent, like myself vote KCP & ZO. |
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Dr. Funkbot
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:27 am Post subject: |
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| VegasLakerFan wrote: | | KCP signing here saved our rears. Our backcourt was going to take a step back even from young Russ/Nick Young. Now I think it's conceivable we'll actually have an upgraded backcourt. |
Oh yeah, we have improved a great deal over Swaggy and DLO. Especially on defense.
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E_Wulf420
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:34 am Post subject: |
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Zo and KCP. KCP can replace Russells offense, Russell can ball out tho, but im sure KCP will average more points this season. However, Russell cant replace KCP defense. So KCP > Russell and its not even close.
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LakersRGolden
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:12 am Post subject: |
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Well, KCP was a pure cap signing. The Lopez deal actually took up an extra 1.8 Mil in cap this year costing us Nwaba. So its:
Lonzo/KCP/Russell/Moz/Nwaba
vs
Lonzo/KCP/Lopez/Hart/Bryant
In 2018 it would likely boil down to:
Lonzo/Russell/Nwaba
vs
Lonzo/Hart/Bryant |
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DanielKetch
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Posts: 323
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| LakersRGolden wrote: | Well, KCP was a pure cap signing. The Lopez deal actually took up an extra 1.8 Mil in cap this year costing us Nwaba. So its:
Lonzo/KCP/Russell/Moz/Nwaba
vs
Lonzo/KCP/Lopez/Hart/Bryant
In 2018 it would likely boil down to:
Lonzo/Russell/Nwaba
vs
Lonzo/Hart/Bryant |
If you're going to look at it that way you, have to add in Moz vs. what we do with the cap space that shedding Mosgov freed up + what we do with KCP's cap space, assuming he is in fact a 1 year rental. |
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LakersRGolden
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Location: Lake Forest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:07 am Post subject: |
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| DanielKetch wrote: | | LakersRGolden wrote: | Well, KCP was a pure cap signing. The Lopez deal actually took up an extra 1.8 Mil in cap this year costing us Nwaba. So its:
Lonzo/KCP/Russell/Moz/Nwaba
vs
Lonzo/KCP/Lopez/Hart/Bryant
In 2018 it would likely boil down to:
Lonzo/Russell/Nwaba
vs
Lonzo/Hart/Bryant |
If you're going to look at it that way you, have to add in Moz vs. what we do with the cap space that shedding Mosgov freed up + what we do with KCP's cap space, assuming he is in fact a 1 year rental. |
You're assuming Dlo was the only way to move Mozgov by Free agency next year and that capspace will be utilized in a meaningful way in 2018. How's this:
Lonzo/Russell/Nwaba/Possible cap space
vs
Lonzo/Hart/Bryant/Guaranteed cap space |
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gooner
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Posts: 448
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:14 am Post subject: |
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| LakersRGolden wrote: | Well, KCP was a pure cap signing. The Lopez deal actually took up an extra 1.8 Mil in cap this year costing us Nwaba. So its:
Lonzo/KCP/Russell/Moz/Nwaba
vs
Lonzo/KCP/Lopez/Hart/Bryant
In 2018 it would likely boil down to:
Lonzo/Russell/Nwaba
vs
Lonzo/Hart/Bryant |
KCP wasn't a "pure" cap signing. That makes it sound like his skills were not a factor in the decision. But of course they were. While unlikely, KCP is in position to have a breakout year significant enough that the Lakers will try to keep him. And there are so many factors that can influence such a decision on both sides. Likely he will be gone after this year, but he wasn't signed just to fill cap space. |
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Chase.button07
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Joined: 19 Feb 2017
Posts: 4996
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:15 am Post subject: |
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KCP cause:
plays defense
Hits the shot
Bulldog
Plays defense
Good Locker room guy
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CalisFinest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:15 am Post subject: |
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| Lonzo + 2 legit max FA's > Lonzo/Russell/1 max > Lonzo/KCP/1 max |
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CamReddish
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Joined: 23 Jun 2015
Posts: 7855
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:16 am Post subject: |
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| LakersRGolden wrote: | Well, KCP was a pure cap signing. The Lopez deal actually took up an extra 1.8 Mil in cap this year costing us Nwaba. So its:
Lonzo/KCP/Russell/Moz/Nwaba
vs
Lonzo/KCP/Lopez/Hart/Bryant
In 2018 it would likely boil down to:
Lonzo/Russell/Nwaba
vs
Lonzo/Hart/Bryant |
Lakers picked Kuzma with the Nets pick.
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dao
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| CalisFinest wrote: | | Lonzo + 2 legit max FA's > Lonzo/Russell/1 max > Lonzo/KCP/1 max |
don't forget about Kuzma. |
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mirak
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 5238
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:26 am Post subject: |
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| I couldn't bring myself to vote. I just don't know. I'm still not a fan of the DLO trade, but the Lonzo/Kuzma summer spectacular helped ease the blues. And I'm really, really rooting for KCP. He's still young, has upside, and potential to be an important cog on a good team. I know it's hard to imaging how he might fit in the team's plans for the future, but if he has a breakout year with Lonzo, and we lure PG but not Lebron (or vice versa)...well, who knows? |
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audioaxes
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Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 12573
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:29 am Post subject: |
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this is ridiculous. DLO is only starting his third season ofcourse KCP will show more polish and ability to play now over DLO and just about any other prospect at DLO's age but that is meaningless. Give DLO 3 more years and he's a few tiers above what KCP would ever be and still growing.
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Staccatos
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Posts: 2416
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:34 am Post subject: |
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| 2019 wrote: | | dao wrote: | | 2019 wrote: | I feel like we need to once and for all define what went out and what came back.. in it's most simple form:
Out:
DLO
Mozgov (and that contract)
In:
Lopez (expiring K)
Kuzma
Now, Kuzma would have been there 1 pick later but that means no Hart and Bryant... which I could live with. Really, this deal comes down to what we do next summer. It's very likely Magic and Rob know something or someone we don't which is why they were willing to move DLO.
Signing KCP does not 'replace' DLO in any sense.. KCP could have been signed with DLO still on the roster. Not that we would have, but it was possible.
Personally, I'd rather have seen Ball and Russell before making such a trade but given the context of cap space for next summer... we've done pretty well. Got a 20ppg C who will expire (and is also a home town kid), a lock down 2 guard who's young with upside (expiring but will help immediately) and what looks like a huge steal of the draft and some believe could be as good as DLO.
So I hated the move at first. I've since accepted and want to see what we do next summer before I judge. But for this season and this season only, Ball/KCP is the backcourt more conducive to winning because of KCP's ability to defend and still give you the offensive output DLO did. 2-10 years from now, the answer is Russell. |
KCP came here on the one year deal so that he could start next to Lonzo, increase his market value, and hopefully sign a huge deal next offseason. There's zero chance he would have come here on a 1 year deal to come off the bench and play limited minutes with Clarkson as his backcourt mate. So yes, the Russell trade absolutely (though indirectly) lead to the KCP acquisition, and KCP has replaced Russell in the starting lineup.
And if we strike out on the 2 max plan next offseason, KCP will get an extension here to be Lonzo's backcourt mate longterm. So the KCP acquisition was very nifty indeed. He is essentially a replacement for Russell. We can keep him longterm to start next to Lonzo, or let him walk for the 2 max plan. Russell's situation here would have been identical to KCP's current situation had the trade not occured: If we could get 2 max guys, Russell would have been traded next offseason to dump a contract to free up cap space, or if the 2 max plan failed, Russell would have been Lonzo's backcourt mate longterm. So KCP has replaced Russell.
We also got Kuzma + a year of brook Lopez, and a guarantee that we will have cap space for the 2 max plan (if we waited to trade Russell, there's no guarantee that we could have used him to dump Mozgov next offseason), so all in all, it's pretty clear that the way the offseason has worked out is a much better situation than keeping Russell would have been. But the question in this poll is whether or not a Russell for KCP swap alone is a good move. |
I feel like you just said a whole bunch of things that prove my point...
In regards to KCP, I said it was possible to have signed him. That is fact. We had the funds to do so. I also said we wouldn't have. He replaced him as the starter but it's not like one was traded for another.. theoretically, both could have been had even if was highly unlikely.
If we strike out on the 2 max plan, then the DLO trade was awful as long term DLO projects much better than KCP. (Which I already stated above.). I also said this year KCP is the the better fit.. but if we move DLO to clear space and with that end up signing KCP longterm, then that trade was a failure.
Your third and final paragraph just regurgitates everything I said in my post. Here it is again:
| Quote: | | So I hated the move at first. I've since accepted and want to see what we do next summer before I judge. But for this season and this season only, Ball/KCP is the backcourt more conducive to winning because of KCP's ability to defend and still give you the offensive output DLO did. 2-10 years from now, the answer is Russell. |
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I disagree. The likeliness of the scenario also plays into it.
If DLO wasn't traded, maybe the chances KCP signs with the Lakers is 5% (theoretical low number). Possible but extremely improbable.
DLO traded, maybe the chance KCP signs with the Lakers is 75%. Much more likely.
These two probabilities aren't the same. Cause and effect. Trading DLO was a necessary step in order to get KCP (albeit on a one year rental). |
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non-player zealot
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Joined: 05 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| Chase.button07 wrote: | KCP cause:
plays defense
Hits the shot
Bulldog
Plays defense
Good Locker room guy |
Word up is the codeword, Chase. KCP serves our new interests better than Russell. We renovated numbers 0 and 1. Swaggy and Younger Swaggy are gone. KCP is a different look than Russell. He's not going to get in Ball's way on offense. We don't need a Norm Nixon for this Magic. This unleashes Zo for heavy minutes and a high percent of the guard corps' initiation/facilitation opportunities. You listed D first because it's the thing that stands out the most. Regardless of my feel for D'Lo, we are in need of defenders whatever their position. I don't even know if he hits the shot better than Russell would, but the locker room guy thing fits with the attitudinal switch, too. Give a good example for the kiddies, work hard, show them the way. KCP's presence puts pressure on Clarkson to show he improved this offseason as well.
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LAkers 4 Life
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Joined: 12 Apr 2001
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:01 am Post subject: |
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DLO needs the ball in his hands to be effective and engaged in the game. For some reason I see DLO as a poor man's Kenny Anderson in terms of his projected career path. Has had nagging injuries.
KCP should be more effective off the ball for the Lakers and a vastly superior defender. And with Lonzo having the ball in his hands most of time, that's probably a better fit. He's stayed healthy his whole career.
Lakers will need someone to step up and take big shots though. DLO was the guy for the team last year when he was healthy. Overall, KCP is the better fit right now for what the team needs. |
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splashmtn
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Posts: 3961
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | | Polls like this will always favor the current Laker rather than the former Laker. Sight unseen and all. Can't be helped... but, then again, maybe the poll will eventually prove me long. |
i agree and disagree THIS time.
KCP is known as a 2 way player. this is before he became a laker.
KCP was known as an athletic player. this is before he became a laker.
KCP has had games where he has put up 20 and change. before he became a laker. approx the same amt as russell in the past 2 seasons.
sure we know that russell can play a little bit of point guard where kcp can't. but we also know kcp is a lot more athletic than russell. so you win some, you lose some.
At the end of the day. since we already have a PG for the future. we dont really need high level passing ability from our 2guard position. what we do need is a defender that can score a bit. thats KCP. what we dont want is portland. 2 lights out scorers where neither of them could slow a turtle if asked too.
thats what you could have with DLO and ZO. now granted i believe DLO and ZO are still better defenders than the two portland guards. but not by a ton. |
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splashmtn
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:15 am Post subject: |
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| LAkers 4 Life wrote: | DLO needs the ball in his hands to be effective and engaged in the game. For some reason I see DLO as a poor man's Kenny Anderson in terms of his projected career path. Has had nagging injuries.
KCP should be more effective off the ball for the Lakers and a vastly superior defender. And with Lonzo having the ball in his hands most of time, that's probably a better fit. He's stayed healthy his whole career.
Lakers will need someone to step up and take big shots though. DLO was the guy for the team last year when he was healthy. Overall, KCP is the better fit right now for what the team needs. |
well dont sell DLO short. DLO is very good off the ball. especially if he's paired next to a REAL pass first PG.
he was excellent in college off the ball. he doesnt need to be on the ball like a cp3 type of PG. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:21 am Post subject: |
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This is honestly one of the few times I truly believe both teams will tremendously benefit from a trade.
Lakers get:
1. better chance at 2 max deal (still need to handle JC/Deng/Jules).
2. let Lonzo run PG
3. excellent pick/pop center on an expiring deal
I didn't necessarily include Kuz b/c we would have likely taken him with our 28th pick. KCP was obtained via cap space which was already there. I can understand that argument that KCP wouldn't have come b/c we would have Lonzo/DLO.
Nets get:
1. 21 year old player who put up tremendous numbers given his age
on a cost controlled contract
3. Moz will start and eat up center minutes. They're not competing W/Ls or in FA, so his deal doesn't hurt them.
So both teams can benefit from this in the long-run IMO.
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dao
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| audioaxes wrote: | | this is ridiculous. DLO is only starting his third season ofcourse KCP will show more polish and ability to play now over DLO and just about any other prospect at DLO's age but that is meaningless. Give DLO 3 more years and he's a few tiers above what KCP would ever be and still growing. |
I definitely agree that Russell projects as a better overall player going forward. But since KCP plays much better defense and is much better in transition, he might actually be a better longterm fit with Lonzo than Russell would have been. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:43 am Post subject: |
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Depends if KCP is here past this year. If he isn't then it's gonna always be Ball/Russell because they could have had 3-4 seasons of growth together before having to worry about them not playing together.
3/4 seasons of Ball/Russell is always gonna be better than just 1 season of Ball/KCP.
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TooMuchMajicBuss
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| LakersRGolden wrote: | Well, KCP was a pure cap signing. The Lopez deal actually took up an extra 1.8 Mil in cap this year costing us Nwaba. So its:
Lonzo/KCP/Russell/Moz/Nwaba
vs
Lonzo/KCP/Lopez/Hart/Bryant
In 2018 it would likely boil down to:
Lonzo/Russell/Nwaba
vs
Lonzo/Hart/Bryant |
This looks very accurate to me.
Under the radar for now - how good is Hart going to be? I'm looking forward to finding out in a few months. |
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dao
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Joined: 02 Jan 2013
Posts: 5572
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:50 am Post subject: |
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| TooMuchMajicBuss wrote: | | LakersRGolden wrote: | Well, KCP was a pure cap signing. The Lopez deal actually took up an extra 1.8 Mil in cap this year costing us Nwaba. So its:
Lonzo/KCP/Russell/Moz/Nwaba
vs
Lonzo/KCP/Lopez/Hart/Bryant
In 2018 it would likely boil down to:
Lonzo/Russell/Nwaba
vs
Lonzo/Hart/Bryant |
This looks very accurate to me.
Under the radar for now - how good is Hart going to be? I'm looking forward to finding out in a few months. |
It is not at all a given that we would have taken Kuzma at 28. He could have easily been taken by the Nets at 27, or the Lakers may have opted to fill the greater need at 28 if they only had 1 pick, and drafted Hart or Derrick White. |
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JohnWick
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Posts: 251
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:51 am Post subject: |
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| For this upcoming season KCP is the better fit but Dlo and Lonzo would have had a MUCH higher ceiling together than KCP-Lonzo. |
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