Better backcourt: Lonzo/KCP vs. Lonzo/Russell
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Which backcourt is better?
Lonzo/Russell
19%
 19%  [ 45 ]
Lonzo/KCP
80%
 80%  [ 181 ]
Total Votes : 226

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greenfrog
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:28 am    Post subject:

I have a hard time seeing DAR busting his ass on the break, whether it's year 3 or 5.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:28 am    Post subject:

dao wrote:
TooMuchMajicBuss wrote:
LakersRGolden wrote:
Well, KCP was a pure cap signing. The Lopez deal actually took up an extra 1.8 Mil in cap this year costing us Nwaba. So its:

Lonzo/KCP/Russell/Moz/Nwaba
vs
Lonzo/KCP/Lopez/Hart/Bryant


In 2018 it would likely boil down to:
Lonzo/Russell/Nwaba
vs
Lonzo/Hart/Bryant


This looks very accurate to me.

Under the radar for now - how good is Hart going to be? I'm looking forward to finding out in a few months.
It is not at all a given that we would have taken Kuzma at 28. He could have easily been taken by the Nets at 27, or the Lakers may have opted to fill the greater need at 28 if they only had 1 pick, and drafted Hart or Derrick White.


Not a given, but I consider it likely because they chose Kuzma before they picked up Hart. But I agree that is an assumption not fact. There's little certainty here unless the right clandestine Laker FO dude were to do us all a favor and speak up on this forum.

Another thing I tend to ignore is the cap room, until I see who we bring in with it. Or whether we could have cleared the same amount of cap room in '18 on both Deng and Moz while giving up fewer assets. It's also a fair argument that the latter scenario is a lot of asset movement to accomplish in a short period of time, and we are best off starting now, not next year, even if we pay more to make room for someone special. It's also a fair argument that Pelinka likely knows the mind sets of agents for players like LeBron and PG13. All valid arguments, no answers yet.

With any luck, I'll change my mind again. That would hopefully mean we land some remarkable players with the cap space we clear and Magic/Pelinka know how to build a title contender. We're not there yet, so for now I'm looking forward to how Hart plays in the long run, how KCP fills in this coming season, and whether they're as pleasant of a surprise come November as Kuzma was in July.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:35 am    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
Polls like this will always favor the current Laker rather than the former Laker. Sight unseen and all. Can't be helped... but, then again, maybe the poll will eventually prove me long.
If playing defense is an important sign of an elite team, KCP is the obvious choice

DLo is a talented offensive player who will have a long career in the NBA. He is not a consistent game-changer or a leader, he is a younger version of Swaggy.

Ball/DLo lineup will score a lot of points but will always expose the bigs because of their inability to defend on the perimeter.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:41 am    Post subject:

PG13 wrote:
LakersRGolden wrote:
Well, KCP was a pure cap signing. The Lopez deal actually took up an extra 1.8 Mil in cap this year costing us Nwaba. So its:

Lonzo/KCP/Russell/Moz/Nwaba
vs
Lonzo/KCP/Lopez/Hart/Bryant


In 2018 it would likely boil down to:
Lonzo/Russell/Nwaba
vs
Lonzo/Hart/Bryant


Lakers picked Kuzma with the Nets pick.


People somehow think we got Hart & Bryant with the Nets pick. It's Kuzma everybody. Say it with me. Kuuuuuzzzzmmmmaaaaa....
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:49 am    Post subject:

TooMuchMajicBuss wrote:
LakersRGolden wrote:
Well, KCP was a pure cap signing. The Lopez deal actually took up an extra 1.8 Mil in cap this year costing us Nwaba. So its:

Lonzo/KCP/Russell/Moz/Nwaba
vs
Lonzo/KCP/Lopez/Hart/Bryant


In 2018 it would likely boil down to:
Lonzo/Russell/Nwaba
vs
Lonzo/Hart/Bryant


This looks very accurate to me.

Under the radar for now - how good is Hart going to be? I'm looking forward to finding out in a few months.


But we took Kuzma with the pick we got from the Nets.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:58 am    Post subject:

PG13 wrote:
TooMuchMajicBuss wrote:
LakersRGolden wrote:
Well, KCP was a pure cap signing. The Lopez deal actually took up an extra 1.8 Mil in cap this year costing us Nwaba. So its:

Lonzo/KCP/Russell/Moz/Nwaba
vs
Lonzo/KCP/Lopez/Hart/Bryant


In 2018 it would likely boil down to:
Lonzo/Russell/Nwaba
vs
Lonzo/Hart/Bryant


This looks very accurate to me.

Under the radar for now - how good is Hart going to be? I'm looking forward to finding out in a few months.


But we took Kuzma with the pick we got from the Nets.


That doesn't fit DLO fanboys' narratives, so they will argue that we '"could have/would have" taken Kuzma anyway with the 28th pick...
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:46 pm    Post subject:

DanielKetch wrote:
PG13 wrote:
TooMuchMajicBuss wrote:
LakersRGolden wrote:
Well, KCP was a pure cap signing. The Lopez deal actually took up an extra 1.8 Mil in cap this year costing us Nwaba. So its:

Lonzo/KCP/Russell/Moz/Bwana
vs
Lonzo/KCP/Lopez/Hart/Bryant


In 2018 it would likely boil down to:
Lonzo/Russell/Nwaba
vs
Lonzo/Hart/Bryant


This looks very accurate to me.

Under the radar for now - how good is Hart going to be? I'm looking forward to finding out in a few months.


But we took Kuzma with the pick we got from the Nets.


That doesn't fit DLO fanboys' narratives, so they will argue that we '"could have/would have" taken Kuzma anyway with the 28th pick...


I can't understand DLO Fanboys.

I used to root for him and I like the kid but let's get over it.

The previous round of excuses was that he was the future of the franchise, now that we have a much, way superior, water to wine young player in Lonzo people went into the Lonzo/DLO splash brothers of the future.

Now we see KCP in the mix as well, so in the new narrative DLO is 6th man of the year?

Let's hope the kid does well in NJ and forget him here, he was never going to be a banner P&G player.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:59 pm    Post subject:

Maybe in order to not derail this thread, let's stop using "fanboys?"
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:03 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Depends if KCP is here past this year. If he isn't then it's gonna always be Ball/Russell because they could have had 3-4 seasons of growth together before having to worry about them not playing together.

3/4 seasons of Ball/Russell is always gonna be better than just 1 season of Ball/KCP.
i still wont say that. russell on his best night was not going to be the same defender as KCP on his best night or a handful of other sg's we might pickup if KCP leaves.

the only way you still are hurting and wishing for a DLO /Ball tandem years from now is if all you care about is offense. if thats your thing. then i can see the complaint.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:21 pm    Post subject:

Why can't we just agree that the Lakers got better trading DLo this season.

Ball/Dlo/Ingram/Randle/Moz
(Clarkson/Deng/Zu/Nance/Nwamba/Brewer/#28)

IS NOT AS GOOD AS

Ball/KCP/Ingram/Randle/Lopez
(Clarkson/Deng/Zu/Nance/Kuz/Brewer/Hart/Bryant)

OK let say DLo plays well with Ball Offensively, Defensively would be a nightmare . That Team with MozDeng is the same group we have last year and we will be competing for the worse record this season again. Guess what we don't have our #1 Draft pick, Boston will more likely get better thanks to us. Plus we still have the MozDeng contract to deal with. Randle is RFA? Doubt any of our player will be an allstar level, maybe 2 more year. Not very eye pleasing to upcoming FA and DLo a year away from being RFA himself.

On the flipside, the Dlo trade, cleared way to KCP, better defender, can fill the lane and does not need the ball. Lopez opens the floor, give our lineup a go to guy down the stretch. Kuz showed he can compliment Ball real well. Our record should be a lot better, Boston will like be screwed. Flexibility to offer 2 max contract if needed. Else if everything click can offer good contract to Randle, KCP or Lopez (whoever fit our lineup best) and just add one max player.

Many will say that they should have traded clarkson or Randle with moz, but if the other team is asking for more as a FO you need to evaluate how does this affect the team moving forward and what moves you can do to offfset that move, we see the product by looking at our team right now. Getting rid of horrible contract is not easy as some believe without costing us picks or young players. Stretching 2 bad contract wont be good enough for 2 max contract 2018.


Last edited by DLaker on Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:32 pm    Post subject:

Lonzo/KCP
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:22 pm    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
I have a hard time seeing DAR busting his ass on the break, whether it's year 3 or 5.


I'm sure he'd always stop at the 3 point line.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:24 pm    Post subject:

DanielKetch wrote:
PG13 wrote:
TooMuchMajicBuss wrote:
LakersRGolden wrote:
Well, KCP was a pure cap signing. The Lopez deal actually took up an extra 1.8 Mil in cap this year costing us Nwaba. So its:

Lonzo/KCP/Russell/Moz/Nwaba
vs
Lonzo/KCP/Lopez/Hart/Bryant


In 2018 it would likely boil down to:
Lonzo/Russell/Nwaba
vs
Lonzo/Hart/Bryant


This looks very accurate to me.

Under the radar for now - how good is Hart going to be? I'm looking forward to finding out in a few months.


But we took Kuzma with the pick we got from the Nets.


That doesn't fit DLO fanboys' narratives, so they will argue that we '"could have/would have" taken Kuzma anyway with the 28th pick...


that is not a narrative but a very safe assumption and I'm not even a DLO "fanboy".
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:25 pm    Post subject:

socalsp3 wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
I have a hard time seeing DAR busting his ass on the break, whether it's year 3 or 5.


I'm sure he'd always stop at the 3 point line.


I think it's cuz he runs funny
I think he just has that old man at the gym game. Like harden, which is not a bad thing.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:37 pm    Post subject:

Offensively: Ball/Russell
Defensively: Ball/Pope

Overall I like the Ball/Pope backcourt better.

Ball
Pope
Ingram
Randle
Lopez

Lakers need another pg type player though. Rose would be good I think, but he should go to Cleveland.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:41 pm    Post subject:

markjay wrote:
How about KCP, Kuzma, and Lopez, instead of Russell and Mozgov


Ceteris Paribus - I voted Lonzo/DLO

But in context (quoted portion), Lonzo/KCP/Kuzma/Lopez (minus Mozgov's contract) is better.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:45 pm    Post subject:

The Lakers are finally starting to look something like a desirable destination. You dump Moz, trade DLo, and end up with Kuz, Lopez, and KCP, major up grades ding, ding, ding!

Who knows? Maybe even Deng shines in a limited role this year. Would like to see more guard depth, but they are deep upfront.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:58 pm    Post subject:

DanielKetch wrote:
PG13 wrote:
TooMuchMajicBuss wrote:
LakersRGolden wrote:
Well, KCP was a pure cap signing. The Lopez deal actually took up an extra 1.8 Mil in cap this year costing us Nwaba. So its:

Lonzo/KCP/Russell/Moz/Nwaba
vs
Lonzo/KCP/Lopez/Hart/Bryant


In 2018 it would likely boil down to:
Lonzo/Russell/Nwaba
vs
Lonzo/Hart/Bryant


This looks very accurate to me.

Under the radar for now - how good is Hart going to be? I'm looking forward to finding out in a few months.


But we took Kuzma with the pick we got from the Nets.


That doesn't fit DLO fanboys' narratives, so they will argue that we '"could have/would have" taken Kuzma anyway with the 28th pick...



WHAT???!??? What. In. The. (bleep). Are you talking about??



I really like Kuzma, but guess what? I liked Hart even better! Sure, Kuzma had a great Summer League and that's what sold me on him, but Hart's a 2 way player who could easily prove the better of the two in the long run.

Where on Earth does that fit a 'fanboy' narrative? THEY SELECTED KUZMA BEFORE HART. THAT TELLS ME IF THEY COULD ONLY CHOOSE ONE, THEY'D HAVE CHOSEN KUZMA. Trading DLO allowed them to get Kuzma AND Hart. Hart being the incremental pick. Plus Bryant.

Good grief SMFH..
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TooMuchMajicBuss
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:00 pm    Post subject:

JuliusRandall wrote:
DanielKetch wrote:
PG13 wrote:
TooMuchMajicBuss wrote:
LakersRGolden wrote:
Well, KCP was a pure cap signing. The Lopez deal actually took up an extra 1.8 Mil in cap this year costing us Nwaba. So its:

Lonzo/KCP/Russell/Moz/Bwana
vs
Lonzo/KCP/Lopez/Hart/Bryant


In 2018 it would likely boil down to:
Lonzo/Russell/Nwaba
vs
Lonzo/Hart/Bryant


This looks very accurate to me.

Under the radar for now - how good is Hart going to be? I'm looking forward to finding out in a few months.


But we took Kuzma with the pick we got from the Nets.


That doesn't fit DLO fanboys' narratives, so they will argue that we '"could have/would have" taken Kuzma anyway with the 28th pick...


I can't understand DLO Fanboys.

I used to root for him and I like the kid but let's get over it.

The previous round of excuses was that he was the future of the franchise, now that we have a much, way superior, water to wine young player in Lonzo people went into the Lonzo/DLO splash brothers of the future.

Now we see KCP in the mix as well, so in the new narrative DLO is 6th man of the year?

Let's hope the kid does well in NJ and forget him here, he was never going to be a banner P&G player.

Who's this 'fanboy' you're referring to?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:01 pm    Post subject:

TooMuchMajicBuss wrote:
DanielKetch wrote:
PG13 wrote:
TooMuchMajicBuss wrote:
LakersRGolden wrote:
Well, KCP was a pure cap signing. The Lopez deal actually took up an extra 1.8 Mil in cap this year costing us Nwaba. So its:

Lonzo/KCP/Russell/Moz/Nwaba
vs
Lonzo/KCP/Lopez/Hart/Bryant


In 2018 it would likely boil down to:
Lonzo/Russell/Nwaba
vs
Lonzo/Hart/Bryant


This looks very accurate to me.

Under the radar for now - how good is Hart going to be? I'm looking forward to finding out in a few months.


But we took Kuzma with the pick we got from the Nets.


That doesn't fit DLO fanboys' narratives, so they will argue that we '"could have/would have" taken Kuzma anyway with the 28th pick...



WHAT???!??? What. In. The. (bleep). Are you talking about??



I really like Kuzma, but guess what? I liked Hart even better! Sure, Kuzma had a great Summer League and that's what sold me on him, but Hart's a 2 way player who could easily prove the better of the two in the long run.

Where on Earth does that fit a 'fanboy' narrative? THEY SELECTED KUZMA BEFORE HART. THAT TELLS ME IF THEY COULD ONLY CHOOSE ONE, THEY'D HAVE CHOSEN KUZMA. Trading DLO allowed them to get Kuzma AND Hart. Hart being the incremental pick. Plus Bryant.

Good grief SMFH..


Can we say LakersRGolden's vs list does not look very accurate?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:13 pm    Post subject:

KCP plays defense.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:25 pm    Post subject:

I rooted for DLO while he was here. I rationalized why we picked him and not Okafor (still seems to be the right choice 2 full seasons later)... I really really wanted him to be the leader of this team, and I really wanted him to be the "Magic-like" passer and "Chris-Paul-Like" leader that Byron had advertised...

Quote:
[BYRON SCOTT]: “I think Okafor’s going to be a good center in this league,” Byron Scott said. “I just think D’Angelo has a chance to be a superstar.”

And the Lakers coach likes to think he knows a few things about point guards.

Scott played alongside Magic Johnson with the Lakers, coached Jason Kidd and Chris Paul and was generous in comparing Russell to the greats.

To Johnson, based on Russell’s performance playing three-on-three in a workout: “The way he commanded guys to do certain things, the last guy I saw do that that I played with was Earvin.”

To Paul: “I think he’s on that level, from what I saw in the workouts.”
link

A couple things:

First, the obvious: Byron Scott is an absolutely horrible evaluator of talent.

2nd, while DLO showed some flashes of brilliance, no doubt, I rarely saw the leadership qualities that I was expecting. Yes, that's a lot to ask of a 19 year old. But we literally just witnessed a 19 year old exhibit that type of leadership, and that gives me and some others here confidence in the new FO and their plans.

Lots of games to be played still... but, as many have alluded to-- the NBA is a 2 way game-- more so now than ever. Defense matters, floor spacing matters, hustle matters... and I like the construct of our team now far more than I did had we stood pat this offseason, added a few 1 year rentals (not named KCP) and had only 2 of our 4 draft picks.
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TooMuchMajicBuss
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:28 pm    Post subject:

epak wrote:


Can we say LakersRGolden's vs list does not look very accurate?


You asking me epak? Sure you can. I always read your posts.

I actually learn things now and then from opposing perspectives when sound logic is there.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:31 pm    Post subject:

TooMuchMajicBuss wrote:
epak wrote:


Can we say LakersRGolden's vs list does not look very accurate?


You asking me epak? Sure you can. I always read your posts.

I actually learn things now and then from opposing perspectives when sound logic is there.



I'm a big fan of sound logic
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:48 pm    Post subject:

TooMuchMajicBuss wrote:
DanielKetch wrote:
PG13 wrote:
TooMuchMajicBuss wrote:
LakersRGolden wrote:
Well, KCP was a pure cap signing. The Lopez deal actually took up an extra 1.8 Mil in cap this year costing us Nwaba. So its:

Lonzo/KCP/Russell/Moz/Nwaba
vs
Lonzo/KCP/Lopez/Hart/Bryant


In 2018 it would likely boil down to:
Lonzo/Russell/Nwaba
vs
Lonzo/Hart/Bryant


This looks very accurate to me.

Under the radar for now - how good is Hart going to be? I'm looking forward to finding out in a few months.


But we took Kuzma with the pick we got from the Nets.


That doesn't fit DLO fanboys' narratives, so they will argue that we '"could have/would have" taken Kuzma anyway with the 28th pick...



WHAT???!??? What. In. The. (bleep). Are you talking about??



I really like Kuzma, but guess what? I liked Hart even better! Sure, Kuzma had a great Summer League and that's what sold me on him, but Hart's a 2 way player who could easily prove the better of the two in the long run.

Where on Earth does that fit a 'fanboy' narrative? THEY SELECTED KUZMA BEFORE HART. THAT TELLS ME IF THEY COULD ONLY CHOOSE ONE, THEY'D HAVE CHOSEN KUZMA. Trading DLO allowed them to get Kuzma AND Hart. Hart being the incremental pick. Plus Bryant.

Good grief SMFH..


I hope you don't think I was calling you directly a "fanboy"

It also seems some have raised objection to using that term so I will refrain going forward. (As a side note, this is a new handle but I recall the days of "KLFs" and "Kobe Fanboys" so I thought this type of banter was still allowed...)

But if you read my past responses to this thread, I am scratching my head on how people who were anti-DLO trade are conveniently leaving out details of what exactly we got in the trade. The fact is we got 27th (Kuzma)+Lopez. But I personally like the trade without that. I would like the trade if we got Hart+Lopez, I would like the trade if we got T Bryant+Lopez, I would like the trade (less) if we got just Lopez + the ability to sign KCP and/or 2018 cap flexibility.

At the end of the day, this is the type of trade you cannot fully judge until a few years down the road, but I like what I see so far.
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