3 way trade: Lakers, Mavs, Bulls

 
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misterrunon
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:12 pm    Post subject: 3 way trade: Lakers, Mavs, Bulls

All depends on how well Julius plays next season, but if he impresses, I think it's feasible.

Lakers outgoing:
Julius Randle
Luol Deng
Josh Hart
1 2nd rounder (either one that the bulls owe us)

Lakers Incoming:

Dywane Wade

We dump Deng's contract, take in Wade's expiring and keep ourselves from having to overpay JR.

Mavericks Outgoing:
Wesely Mathews
Future 2nd rounder

Mavericks Incoming:
Julius Randle
Luol Deng

This all depends on how good JR is and if he's worth paying 1 extra year + the Mav's 2nd rounder (Mathew's contract is +2 years, Deng's is +3).

Bulls Outgoing:

Dwyane Wade

Bulls Incoming:
Wesley Mathews
Josh Hart
2 2nd rounders

Bulls get 2 2nd rounders and Josh Hart for +1 year of Wesley (but he's paid less each year, so even better).
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:44 pm    Post subject:

No.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 4:06 pm    Post subject:

So we lose randle for nothing? This trade makes zero sense.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:16 pm    Post subject:

sublimedominion wrote:
So we lose randle for nothing? This trade makes zero sense.


Unloading Deng's contract is nothing? Especially with the big FA market next year? In your mind, do you think we only traded DLO for Brook Lopez and the 27th pick?

I think the same people who are against this trade are probably the ones who were against the DLO trade, but it's becoming more and more obvious that the trade was a good one for us.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:30 pm    Post subject:

It all depends on if we actually can sign the other players we want in return.

These are risky kinds of moves and the kind that Mitch and Jim were unable to pull off. Lots of people are feeling gun shy over these because the league has burned us so badly the past few years.

I would not make this kind of move, unless Magic and Rob really believe that the outcome is in our favor and we are going to sign the guys in question.

If we end out with Lebron and Paul George to go along with Ball, Ingram and Lopez I will not feel like we blew it for letting Randle go. On the other hand, if we end out with cap space and no Randle with nothing to spend the cap space on, then end out having to give it to marginal filler just to satisfy the league cap rules, it will be a failure.

If this was Mitch and Jim, I would know it was a bad move, but with Magic and Rob, I am not so sure. The future will reveal all.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:55 pm    Post subject:

Wino wrote:
It all depends on if we actually can sign the other players we want in return.

These are risky kinds of moves and the kind that Mitch and Jim were unable to pull off. Lots of people are feeling gun shy over these because the league has burned us so badly the past few years.

I would not make this kind of move, unless Magic and Rob really believe that the outcome is in our favor and we are going to sign the guys in question.

If we end out with Lebron and Paul George to go along with Ball, Ingram and Lopez I will not feel like we blew it for letting Randle go. On the other hand, if we end out with cap space and no Randle with nothing to spend the cap space on, then end out having to give it to marginal filler just to satisfy the league cap rules, it will be a failure.

If this was Mitch and Jim, I would know it was a bad move, but with Magic and Rob, I am not so sure. The future will reveal all.


I agree it's risky, but if you want to compete, you will have to make those risks. You're still hedging since you're still keeping (at least in my opinion) your core players.

I don't think JR"s game fits what we need, and he's basically going into a contract year (unless we QO him), so there's no point in dragging this out.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:47 am    Post subject:

Wade expires after this season, I don't see where Randle playing better this season has any bearing on Wade.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:06 am    Post subject:

Randle playing better increases his value and entices a team like Dallas to trade for him.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:46 am    Post subject:

I don't think it's a bad trade but I would wait to Dec. 15 deadline to see if we can get more value out of him. Basically we need to get rid of 3 players, Clarkson, Randle, and Deng, to maximize 2018 cap space.

For Randle, I would want another promising player on a longer rookie contract. That way we get something for him.

Clarkson, I would want a veteran PG to back up and mentor Ball. Not looking for too much here.

Deng, I don't think he is tradeable and we will likely use the stretch provision on him at the end of the season.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:52 am    Post subject:

Try as I might, I can't convince myself from the Mavs GM POV that the trade makes sense for my club.

Deng and Randle come in an expensive duo of forwards, one that doesn't work well together, and they will compete with each other for PT and fit. I already own Powell, Barnes and Noel, with Dirk. I don't even see an upgrade anywhere, and worse still, I'm still preferring using Dirk. Where's the upgrade and where's the benefit gained from this cost? Hmmm, nope,, this will not happen.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:30 am    Post subject:

misterrunon wrote:
Randle playing better increases his value and entices a team like Dallas to trade for him.


The timing still doesn't work, and Randle will be a RFA. And hoping one of our young players develops and gains value so we can trade him for nothing is dumb.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:09 pm    Post subject:

Yuck
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:57 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
misterrunon wrote:
Randle playing better increases his value and entices a team like Dallas to trade for him.


The timing still doesn't work, and Randle will be a RFA. And hoping one of our young players develops and gains value so we can trade him for nothing is dumb.


Ok, read the trade proposal. I guess I'll have to say it multiple times.. we're trading Julius to get rid of Deng's contract. The people who think this is trading JR for nothing are the same ones who thought trading DLO was the end of the world. Fans tend to overvalue their team's assets. We also get a Dywane Wade rental, which won't hurt if we're trying to lure Lebron (even if I don't want him). That is not "nothinig" especially if we are hoping to clear some cap space for 2 max FA's next season.

Randle will be an RFA next year obviously. But his strengths do not help out the team and what it needs. The team needs shooting, a tough defender, a screen setter, and someone who can play off-ball. Those are all weaknesses for JR, it doesn't make sense holding on to him since he doesn't yet have the skillset to provide what the team needs.

70sdude wrote:
Try as I might, I can't convince myself from the Mavs GM POV that the trade makes sense for my club.

Deng and Randle come in an expensive duo of forwards, one that doesn't work well together, and they will compete with each other for PT and fit. I already own Powell, Barnes and Noel, with Dirk. I don't even see an upgrade anywhere, and worse still, I'm still preferring using Dirk. Where's the upgrade and where's the benefit gained from this cost? Hmmm, nope,, this will not happen.


They are getting rid of Wesley Mathew's contract, so it's not like they are adding Deng out of thin air. The cost is basically: 1 2nd rounder + 1 additional year of a bad contract (Deng's instead of Mathew's). I don't know what the Mavs think, but it's not really that implausible for them to think it's an acceptable deal.

chekmatex4 wrote:
I don't think it's a bad trade but I would wait to Dec. 15 deadline to see if we can get more value out of him. Basically we need to get rid of 3 players, Clarkson, Randle, and Deng, to maximize 2018 cap space.

For Randle, I would want another promising player on a longer rookie contract. That way we get something for him.

Clarkson, I would want a veteran PG to back up and mentor Ball. Not looking for too much here.

Deng, I don't think he is tradeable and we will likely use the stretch provision on him at the end of the season.


Yeah, I'm not saying do it right now. But if you wait, and JR gets injured or doesn't play as well as we think he is, then his value will drop.. so if you had that offer, you'd have to seriously consider taking it right now. I'd probably roll the dice on that, and wait possibly until the march deadline to make the trade... since JR does look much more physically fit now.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:54 pm    Post subject:

It def. clears cap space for next season, and to Dump Deng, you have to add something (how about including some of Jimbo's MONEY from next year)...

This also frees up Kuzma to get some big minutes, I'm ok with it, especially if you can sign PG13 and Lebron or Cousins...
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:44 pm    Post subject:

Its the same deal that got Dlo traded - might be necessary to dump Deng's contract. Would prefer to keep Hart and trade JC if possible - though not sure it could get done due to cap issues.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:58 am    Post subject:

misterrunon wrote:
chekmatex4 wrote:
I don't think it's a bad trade but I would wait to Dec. 15 deadline to see if we can get more value out of him. Basically we need to get rid of 3 players, Clarkson, Randle, and Deng, to maximize 2018 cap space.

For Randle, I would want another promising player on a longer rookie contract. That way we get something for him.

Clarkson, I would want a veteran PG to back up and mentor Ball. Not looking for too much here.

Deng, I don't think he is tradeable and we will likely use the stretch provision on him at the end of the season.


Yeah, I'm not saying do it right now. But if you wait, and JR gets injured or doesn't play as well as we think he is, then his value will drop.. so if you had that offer, you'd have to seriously consider taking it right now. I'd probably roll the dice on that, and wait possibly until the march deadline to make the trade... since JR does look much more physically fit now.


I still think Deng is untradeable and that we will have to use the stretch provision on him. Probably more likely to get a deal done if we include Clarkson instead of Deng. I've always wanted to trade Randle but I preferred getting a rookie back with more years on the rookie contract. Everyone is talking about Randle's new body, but it's his contract year. I'm hesitant to invest in a player that makes a huge change in a contract year because they might just revert back once he signs a new contract.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:34 am    Post subject:

chekmatex4 wrote:
misterrunon wrote:
chekmatex4 wrote:
I don't think it's a bad trade but I would wait to Dec. 15 deadline to see if we can get more value out of him. Basically we need to get rid of 3 players, Clarkson, Randle, and Deng, to maximize 2018 cap space.

For Randle, I would want another promising player on a longer rookie contract. That way we get something for him.

Clarkson, I would want a veteran PG to back up and mentor Ball. Not looking for too much here.

Deng, I don't think he is tradeable and we will likely use the stretch provision on him at the end of the season.


Yeah, I'm not saying do it right now. But if you wait, and JR gets injured or doesn't play as well as we think he is, then his value will drop.. so if you had that offer, you'd have to seriously consider taking it right now. I'd probably roll the dice on that, and wait possibly until the march deadline to make the trade... since JR does look much more physically fit now.


I still think Deng is untradeable and that we will have to use the stretch provision on him. Probably more likely to get a deal done if we include Clarkson instead of Deng. I've always wanted to trade Randle but I preferred getting a rookie back with more years on the rookie contract. Everyone is talking about Randle's new body, but it's his contract year. I'm hesitant to invest in a player that makes a huge change in a contract year because they might just revert back once he signs a new contract.


Deng is not untradeable. In this trade scenario, Bulls would only be adding 1 additional year of salaries, just as the Mavs are. Adding 1 year of contracts is a good deal if you consider what the Nets had to give away and take in to get their assets.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:12 pm    Post subject:

misterrunon wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
misterrunon wrote:
Randle playing better increases his value and entices a team like Dallas to trade for him.


The timing still doesn't work, and Randle will be a RFA. And hoping one of our young players develops and gains value so we can trade him for nothing is dumb.


Ok, read the trade proposal. I guess I'll have to say it multiple times.. we're trading Julius to get rid of Deng's contract. The people who think this is trading JR for nothing are the same ones who thought trading DLO was the end of the world. Fans tend to overvalue their team's assets. We also get a Dywane Wade rental, which won't hurt if we're trying to lure Lebron (even if I don't want him). That is not "nothinig" especially if we are hoping to clear some cap space for 2 max FA's next season.

Randle will be an RFA next year obviously. But his strengths do not help out the team and what it needs. The team needs shooting, a tough defender, a screen setter, and someone who can play off-ball. Those are all weaknesses for JR, it doesn't make sense holding on to him since he doesn't yet have the skillset to provide what the team needs.



So if Randle is a RFA you trade him where he wants to go or you let him walk. And I see you haven't bothered to keep up with the progress our young players have been making, or the fact that he has the skill set that Luke wants in a big. Why else would he spend time with Randle watching film on Draymond Green? If you want to dump Deng use future picks, trading young talented players is a bad idea.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:14 pm    Post subject:

misterrunon wrote:
chekmatex4 wrote:
misterrunon wrote:
chekmatex4 wrote:
I don't think it's a bad trade but I would wait to Dec. 15 deadline to see if we can get more value out of him. Basically we need to get rid of 3 players, Clarkson, Randle, and Deng, to maximize 2018 cap space.

For Randle, I would want another promising player on a longer rookie contract. That way we get something for him.

Clarkson, I would want a veteran PG to back up and mentor Ball. Not looking for too much here.

Deng, I don't think he is tradeable and we will likely use the stretch provision on him at the end of the season.


Yeah, I'm not saying do it right now. But if you wait, and JR gets injured or doesn't play as well as we think he is, then his value will drop.. so if you had that offer, you'd have to seriously consider taking it right now. I'd probably roll the dice on that, and wait possibly until the march deadline to make the trade... since JR does look much more physically fit now.


I still think Deng is untradeable and that we will have to use the stretch provision on him. Probably more likely to get a deal done if we include Clarkson instead of Deng. I've always wanted to trade Randle but I preferred getting a rookie back with more years on the rookie contract. Everyone is talking about Randle's new body, but it's his contract year. I'm hesitant to invest in a player that makes a huge change in a contract year because they might just revert back once he signs a new contract.


Deng is not untradeable. In this trade scenario, Bulls would only be adding 1 additional year of salaries, just as the Mavs are. Adding 1 year of contracts is a good deal if you consider what the Nets had to give away and take in to get their assets.


Yes, the same Bulls who wouldn't trade Wade to us this offseason and have said they want to keep him.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:13 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
misterrunon wrote:
chekmatex4 wrote:
misterrunon wrote:
chekmatex4 wrote:
I don't think it's a bad trade but I would wait to Dec. 15 deadline to see if we can get more value out of him. Basically we need to get rid of 3 players, Clarkson, Randle, and Deng, to maximize 2018 cap space.

For Randle, I would want another promising player on a longer rookie contract. That way we get something for him.

Clarkson, I would want a veteran PG to back up and mentor Ball. Not looking for too much here.

Deng, I don't think he is tradeable and we will likely use the stretch provision on him at the end of the season.


Yeah, I'm not saying do it right now. But if you wait, and JR gets injured or doesn't play as well as we think he is, then his value will drop.. so if you had that offer, you'd have to seriously consider taking it right now. I'd probably roll the dice on that, and wait possibly until the march deadline to make the trade... since JR does look much more physically fit now.


I still think Deng is untradeable and that we will have to use the stretch provision on him. Probably more likely to get a deal done if we include Clarkson instead of Deng. I've always wanted to trade Randle but I preferred getting a rookie back with more years on the rookie contract. Everyone is talking about Randle's new body, but it's his contract year. I'm hesitant to invest in a player that makes a huge change in a contract year because they might just revert back once he signs a new contract.


Deng is not untradeable. In this trade scenario, Bulls would only be adding 1 additional year of salaries, just as the Mavs are. Adding 1 year of contracts is a good deal if you consider what the Nets had to give away and take in to get their assets.


Yes, the same Bulls who wouldn't trade Wade to us this offseason and have said they want to keep him.


I wouldn't trust what the Bulls FO says as far as I could throw it. They also said they weren't moving Butler, and we saw how that went. If you just look at it from a logic standpoint, what is the point of them keeping Wade? They are tanking/rebuilding, it's blatantly obvious, so there's no reason for them to hold onto Wade. It makes all the sense in the world that they should want to get him off their books. Now, obviously, it's not like they can trade him without any salary coming back whatsoever, as not only do teams not have that much cap space open, but he doesn't have that kind of value as a player anymore even if teams had the space to just absorb him. So why not move him, take back another bad contract, and get assets out of it? Now, the worse the contract is that they take back, the more assets they get in return, and therein lies the rub. They would probably like to take back less than 3 years of a bad contract, but they would also like to get more than just trivial assets out of it. In my mind, that's the game that's going on right now.

I'll just give one possible example. I've floated a 3-team trade idea in the Lounge where the Lakers give the Bulls Deng, Zu, T-Rob (sign-and-trade), CHI's '19 2nd, and our '20 1st. (Oh, and $5.1MM in cash.) The Bucks would get Wade, and the Lakers would get Monroe and Hawes (both expirings). The Bulls would also take Rashad Vaughn's small $1.9MM contract so that the Bucks get out of the luxury tax. I mention this because some might ask the question, why wouldn't the Bulls and Bucks just deal with each other directly, if the Bucks want Wade? Well, the Bucks aren't going to be interested in giving up 2 draft picks to get Wade, plus one of their legit prospects that might have value equal to a late 1st round pick like Zu does (in my opinion, anyway). The Bucks would want to do it as basically exchanging one large expiring for another. Perhaps they would give up a 2nd rounder or something, but that's about it.

So if you're Chicago, what is your goal? You aren't saving any money if you move Wade for another expiring or 2 of similar cost, and any draft pick compensation you got would be very light. If you involve the Lakers here, yes, you take back a bad contract, but you get an awful lot more in return.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:30 am    Post subject:

misterrunon wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
misterrunon wrote:
Randle playing better increases his value and entices a team like Dallas to trade for him.


The timing still doesn't work, and Randle will be a RFA. And hoping one of our young players develops and gains value so we can trade him for nothing is dumb.


Ok, read the trade proposal. I guess I'll have to say it multiple times.. we're trading Julius to get rid of Deng's contract. The people who think this is trading JR for nothing are the same ones who thought trading DLO was the end of the world. Fans tend to overvalue their team's assets. We also get a Dywane Wade rental, which won't hurt if we're trying to lure Lebron (even if I don't want him). That is not "nothinig" especially if we are hoping to clear some cap space for 2 max FA's next season.

Randle will be an RFA next year obviously. But his strengths do not help out the team and what it needs. The team needs shooting, a tough defender, a screen setter, and someone who can play off-ball. Those are all weaknesses for JR, it doesn't make sense holding on to him since he doesn't yet have the skillset to provide what the team needs.

70sdude wrote:
Try as I might, I can't convince myself from the Mavs GM POV that the trade makes sense for my club.

Deng and Randle come in an expensive duo of forwards, one that doesn't work well together, and they will compete with each other for PT and fit. I already own Powell, Barnes and Noel, with Dirk. I don't even see an upgrade anywhere, and worse still, I'm still preferring using Dirk. Where's the upgrade and where's the benefit gained from this cost? Hmmm, nope,, this will not happen.


They are getting rid of Wesley Mathew's contract, so it's not like they are adding Deng out of thin air. The cost is basically: 1 2nd rounder + 1 additional year of a bad contract (Deng's instead of Mathew's). I don't know what the Mavs think, but it's not really that implausible for them to think it's an acceptable deal.

chekmatex4 wrote:
I don't think it's a bad trade but I would wait to Dec. 15 deadline to see if we can get more value out of him. Basically we need to get rid of 3 players, Clarkson, Randle, and Deng, to maximize 2018 cap space.

For Randle, I would want another promising player on a longer rookie contract. That way we get something for him.

Clarkson, I would want a veteran PG to back up and mentor Ball. Not looking for too much here.

Deng, I don't think he is tradeable and we will likely use the stretch provision on him at the end of the season.


Yeah, I'm not saying do it right now. But if you wait, and JR gets injured or doesn't play as well as we think he is, then his value will drop.. so if you had that offer, you'd have to seriously consider taking it right now. I'd probably roll the dice on that, and wait possibly until the march deadline to make the trade... since JR does look much more physically fit now.


So, to recap: Dallas should want this deal to take on a bigger and longer contract than they have already in Wesley Matthews' contract, to get out of Wesley Matthews' contract. For a player who's not much better or much worse. In a year when the cap didn't grow as expected. That's a fairly implausible desire to me but if it is attractive to you, we just disagree.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:22 am    Post subject:

misterrunon wrote:
chekmatex4 wrote:
misterrunon wrote:
chekmatex4 wrote:
I don't think it's a bad trade but I would wait to Dec. 15 deadline to see if we can get more value out of him. Basically we need to get rid of 3 players, Clarkson, Randle, and Deng, to maximize 2018 cap space.

For Randle, I would want another promising player on a longer rookie contract. That way we get something for him.

Clarkson, I would want a veteran PG to back up and mentor Ball. Not looking for too much here.

Deng, I don't think he is tradeable and we will likely use the stretch provision on him at the end of the season.


Yeah, I'm not saying do it right now. But if you wait, and JR gets injured or doesn't play as well as we think he is, then his value will drop.. so if you had that offer, you'd have to seriously consider taking it right now. I'd probably roll the dice on that, and wait possibly until the march deadline to make the trade... since JR does look much more physically fit now.


I still think Deng is untradeable and that we will have to use the stretch provision on him. Probably more likely to get a deal done if we include Clarkson instead of Deng. I've always wanted to trade Randle but I preferred getting a rookie back with more years on the rookie contract. Everyone is talking about Randle's new body, but it's his contract year. I'm hesitant to invest in a player that makes a huge change in a contract year because they might just revert back once he signs a new contract.


Deng is not untradeable. In this trade scenario, Bulls would only be adding 1 additional year of salaries, just as the Mavs are. Adding 1 year of contracts is a good deal if you consider what the Nets had to give away and take in to get their assets.
Contract wise it's fine. Deng does not provide much on the court. He is too slow for SF so has to play undersized PF. Lakers killed his on court value by sitting him. Wesley Matthews at least can contribute on the court, even if it is low efficiency.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:57 am    Post subject:

zero sense for me, I'm new user, but I watched this forum long time
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Last edited by saltmakemity on Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ibn Rushd
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Joined: 03 Aug 2010
Posts: 141

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:41 am    Post subject:

saltmakemity wrote:
zero sense for me, I'm new user, but I watched this forum long time


Since the Dlo trade, some Laker fans think we should throw away everything we have to get out of Deng's contract
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