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Lakerpark
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 Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:11 am Post subject: Extrapolating a little bit into the future |
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I really don't want Lebron on the Lakers, his better days are behind him and I just don't think he is good for the franchise with his "If I don't win, I'll go somewhere else" attitude. I don't really want the young core broken up to bring in old vets to win today.
So, thinking ahead a couple seasons, BIG IF,
a. Ingram develops into a really really good all around player and the Lakers go to guy as people like Magic predict
b. Lonzo Ball and his passing and leadership unites the team and makes the offense smooth as silk
c. Randle finally learns to shoot and becomes a pretty good all around 4 and pretty good back up 5
d. The Lakers keep Lopez who many here said is a "top TBD' center with a great offensive game and 3 ball
e. Nance continues his all around smart game plus improves his shooting
f. KCP turns out to be a really good two way player with a really good 3 ball
g. Kuzma fulfills his Summer League potential
Could the Lakers be a contender?
My point is, do they actually need "Superstar" players? The only real superstars in the past few years I can think of are Kobe and Lebron and if you go back far enough, Duncan.
I wouldn't mind adding Paul George though. If KCP could be the back up SG. But would he do that?
I imagine some players would have to play at a discount. That's the only way the Warriors make it happen by having guys like Durant take pay cuts to play for a championship team.
Curry, Thompson, Green and even Durant are really really really good players, but I don't know if they are superstars like Kobe, Lebron, Magic, Bird, Kareem.
The Warriors just have a strong all around team and they play really well together. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:17 am Post subject: |
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Not sure how we could keep KCP/Lopez/Jules.
At best you can keep 2 of them, and no, that's not enough for a contender.
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LakerDynasty6.0
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Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Posts: 4656
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| Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:34 am Post subject: Re: Extrapolating a little bit into the future |
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| Lakerpark wrote: | I really don't want Lebron on the Lakers, his better days are behind him and I just don't think he is good for the franchise with his "If I don't win, I'll go somewhere else" attitude. I don't really want the young core broken up to bring in old vets to win today.
So, thinking ahead a couple seasons, BIG IF,
a. Ingram develops into a really really good all around player and the Lakers go to guy as people like Magic predict
b. Lonzo Ball and his passing and leadership unites the team and makes the offense smooth as silk
c. Randle finally learns to shoot and becomes a pretty good all around 4 and pretty good back up 5
d. The Lakers keep Lopez who many here said is a "top TBD' center with a great offensive game and 3 ball
e. Nance continues his all around smart game plus improves his shooting
f. KCP turns out to be a really good two way player with a really good 3 ball
g. Kuzma fulfills his Summer League potential
Could the Lakers be a contender?
My point is, do they actually need "Superstar" players? The only real superstars in the past few years I can think of are Kobe and Lebron and if you go back far enough, Duncan.
I wouldn't mind adding Paul George though. If KCP could be the back up SG. But would he do that?
I imagine some players would have to play at a discount. That's the only way the Warriors make it happen by having guys like Durant take pay cuts to play for a championship team.
Curry, Thompson, Green and even Durant are really really really good players, but I don't know if they are superstars like Kobe, Lebron, Magic, Bird, Kareem.
The Warriors just have a strong all around team and they play really well together. |
May your a..g come true!
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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I think it is more likely that Jeanie and the FO want names and will then try to find a way to make it work, instead of going for fit.
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Chronicle
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| Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | I think it is more likely that Jeanie and the FO want names and will then try to find a way to make it work, instead of going for fit. |
So far the FO hasn't done any such thing. I'm gonna keep a naive view and go only on what we have seen so far
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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Jeanie has, though.
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numero-ocho
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Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 18202
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:08 pm Post subject: Re: Extrapolating a little bit into the future |
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| Lakerpark wrote: | | I just don't think he is good for the franchise with his "If I don't win, I'll go somewhere else" attitude. |
You're kidding yourself if you don't believe any superstar will look to bolt when their contract is up and the team isn't close to winning a championship. Kobe was here for 10 years and won three championships and still wanted out. This will be especially true if the superstar still has enough years to compete.
Everyone keeps bringing up Lebron's age but I think that works in favor of the new team because he'll know he can't just start over again in a few more more years.
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hellsling
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Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 1833
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| Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:11 pm Post subject: Re: Extrapolating a little bit into the future |
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| numero-ocho wrote: | | Lakerpark wrote: | | I just don't think he is good for the franchise with his "If I don't win, I'll go somewhere else" attitude. |
You're kidding yourself if you don't believe any superstar will look to bolt when their contract is up and the team isn't close to winning a championship. Kobe was here for 10 years and won three championships and still wanted out. This will be especially true if the superstar still has enough years to compete.
Everyone keeps bringing up Lebron's age but I think that works in favor of the new team because he'll know he can't just start over again in a few more more years. |
Agreed. Nothing wrong with going to a new place that gives you the best chance to win. Did people forget Kobe at one point demanded a trade and said he would rather play in Pluto? |
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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Joined: 18 Jul 2014
Posts: 8149
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| Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:24 pm Post subject: Re: Extrapolating a little bit into the future |
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| numero-ocho wrote: | | Lakerpark wrote: | | I just don't think he is good for the franchise with his "If I don't win, I'll go somewhere else" attitude. |
You're kidding yourself if you don't believe any superstar will look to bolt when their contract is up and the team isn't close to winning a championship. Kobe was here for 10 years and won three championships and still wanted out. This will be especially true if the superstar still has enough years to compete.
Everyone keeps bringing up Lebron's age but I think that works in favor of the new team because he'll know he can't just start over again in a few more more years. |
Just for arguments sake. How many years do you think James would realistically be in LA?
Would be entering his 16th season. We have already been told the primary reason he looks at LA as a destination is because of his business obligations and a production company.
Window is short. Like 2-3 years at most for them to compete for a ring. |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| how does one extrapolate into the future? |
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audioaxes
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| Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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Curry and Durant not super stars?? They are currently 2 of the 3 best superstars in the NBA and have logged some of the most impressive seasons in NBA history.
And then you mention that Lebron should not be signed as he will be too old down the line (which I agree is a very valid point) but in that same argument you cant count on Lopez to be a key future asset on this team as well.
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Last edited by audioaxes on Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:44 pm Post subject: Re: Extrapolating a little bit into the future |
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| Lakerpark wrote: | I really don't want Lebron on the Lakers, his better days are behind him and I just don't think he is good for the franchise with his "If I don't win, I'll go somewhere else" attitude. I don't really want the young core broken up to bring in old vets to win today.
So, thinking ahead a couple seasons, BIG IF,
a. Ingram develops into a really really good all around player and the Lakers go to guy as people like Magic predict
b. Lonzo Ball and his passing and leadership unites the team and makes the offense smooth as silk
c. Randle finally learns to shoot and becomes a pretty good all around 4 and pretty good back up 5
d. The Lakers keep Lopez who many here said is a "top TBD' center with a great offensive game and 3 ball
e. Nance continues his all around smart game plus improves his shooting
f. KCP turns out to be a really good two way player with a really good 3 ball
g. Kuzma fulfills his Summer League potential
Could the Lakers be a contender?. |
Could be contend if our entire squad develops into much better players than they currently are? Maybe. Is that likely to happen? Probably not.
| Lakerpark wrote: | | I wouldn't mind adding Paul George though. If KCP could be the back up SG. But would he do that? |
KCP wants $22 million a year and some team will probably give it to him. You think he's going to sign here for less to be a backup?
| Lakerpark wrote: | | I imagine some players would have to play at a discount. That's the only way the Warriors make it happen by having guys like Durant take pay cuts to play for a championship team. |
Durant took less after he had already made $100 million in order to play for a team that had already won a ring and set an NBA record for most wins in a season. If we win 73 games next year, some superstar would probably take less to join us. Will that happen? No.
| Lakerpark wrote: | | Curry, Thompson, Green and even Durant are really really really good players, but I don't know if they are superstars like Kobe, Lebron, Magic, Bird, Kareem. |
Seems like you are differentiated between superstars and people on the GOAT short list. Durant and Curry aren't on the GOAT short list. (Though Durant could be some day). However they are MVP level players, and teams rarely win a ring without someone of that caliber, which we currently do not have. |
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kobeandgary
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Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 6339
Location: Virginia
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| Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:07 pm Post subject: Re: Extrapolating a little bit into the future |
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| Lakerpark wrote: | I really don't want Lebron on the Lakers, his better days are behind him and I just don't think he is good for the franchise with his "If I don't win, I'll go somewhere else" attitude. I don't really want the young core broken up to bring in old vets to win today.
So, thinking ahead a couple seasons, BIG IF,
a. Ingram develops into a really really good all around player and the Lakers go to guy as people like Magic predict
b. Lonzo Ball and his passing and leadership unites the team and makes the offense smooth as silk
c. Randle finally learns to shoot and becomes a pretty good all around 4 and pretty good back up 5
d. The Lakers keep Lopez who many here said is a "top TBD' center with a great offensive game and 3 ball
e. Nance continues his all around smart game plus improves his shooting
f. KCP turns out to be a really good two way player with a really good 3 ball
g. Kuzma fulfills his Summer League potential
Could the Lakers be a contender?
My point is, do they actually need "Superstar" players? The only real superstars in the past few years I can think of are Kobe and Lebron and if you go back far enough, Duncan.
I wouldn't mind adding Paul George though. If KCP could be the back up SG. But would he do that?
I imagine some players would have to play at a discount. That's the only way the Warriors make it happen by having guys like Durant take pay cuts to play for a championship team.
Curry, Thompson, Green and even Durant are really really really good players, but I don't know if they are superstars like Kobe, Lebron, Magic, Bird, Kareem.
The Warriors just have a strong all around team and they play really well together. |
Curry and Durant are both Superstars, Durant has been to the finals on two different teams and was the best player on both and has a Finals MVP to show for it. Thompson is potentially the most explosive scorer this game has ever seen, the dude can get unbelievable hot, but obviously has lows as well, but his defense is always great. We need minimum two superstars to come to this team to have a chance. |
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awntawn
Starting Rotation
Joined: 29 Apr 2016
Posts: 953
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| Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | Not sure how we could keep KCP/Lopez/Jules.
At best you can keep 2 of them, and no, that's not enough for a contender. |
pretty sure we can keep all our guys, we just can't sign anyone else. that's why we have the cap holds, no? |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| awntawn wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Not sure how we could keep KCP/Lopez/Jules.
At best you can keep 2 of them, and no, that's not enough for a contender. |
pretty sure we can keep all our guys, we just can't sign anyone else. that's why we have the cap holds, no? |
I'm including Jules cap hold.
KCP and Lopez would have to split 28m assuming we get pg13.
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kevin61
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 1332
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| Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:24 pm Post subject: Re: Extrapolating a little bit into the future |
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| Lakerpark wrote: | I really don't want Lebron on the Lakers, his better days are behind him and I just don't think he is good for the franchise with his "If I don't win, I'll go somewhere else" attitude. I don't really want the young core broken up to bring in old vets to win today.
So, thinking ahead a couple seasons, BIG IF,
a. Ingram develops into a really really good all around player and the Lakers go to guy as people like Magic predict
b. Lonzo Ball and his passing and leadership unites the team and makes the offense smooth as silk
c. Randle finally learns to shoot and becomes a pretty good all around 4 and pretty good back up 5
d. The Lakers keep Lopez who many here said is a "top TBD' center with a great offensive game and 3 ball
e. Nance continues his all around smart game plus improves his shooting
f. KCP turns out to be a really good two way player with a really good 3 ball
g. Kuzma fulfills his Summer League potential
Could the Lakers be a contender?
My point is, do they actually need "Superstar" players? The only real superstars in the past few years I can think of are Kobe and Lebron and if you go back far enough, Duncan.
I wouldn't mind adding Paul George though. If KCP could be the back up SG. But would he do that?
I imagine some players would have to play at a discount. That's the only way the Warriors make it happen by having guys like Durant take pay cuts to play for a championship team.
Curry, Thompson, Green and even Durant are really really really good players, but I don't know if they are superstars like Kobe, Lebron, Magic, Bird, Kareem.
The Warriors just have a strong all around team and they play really well together. |
This point of view is based on the theory that what we currently have is enough. My response is, maybe so, but so what. We are in a position to add our team in this manner for a finite time. As rookie deals expire, our flexibility to add max players, without subtracting from our young core, will vanish. If, in the unlikely event that KCP's play is so strong he becomes one of those guys, so be it. But next offseason will be crucial for the Lakers. They must add at least one franchise level FA, if not two. |
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Chronicle
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Location: Manhattan
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| Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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Add george, resign our own players, and call it a day imo
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epak
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| Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Chronicle wrote: | | Add george, resign our own players, and call it a day imo |
Trade Deng and JC and 1st to ATL for Bazemore
Add George.
Re-sign KCP, Lopez.
QO to Randle.
Sign Ariza.
Alright. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Chronicle wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | I think it is more likely that Jeanie and the FO want names and will then try to find a way to make it work, instead of going for fit. |
So far the FO hasn't done any such thing. I'm gonna keep a naive view and go only on what we have seen so far |
The two superstar max plan IS that though. So I agree with VLF on that one.
But I'm on the "fit' plan, where we find key pieces that fit the core ones we already have. |
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Lakerz113
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Posts: 2445
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| Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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The Only way to compete in the NBA today is to get two superstars to pair with young talent while they are on rookie deals. Alot of people want to slowly rebuild "like the warriors", but im not sure everyone understands that therir scenario was rare and unlikely to happen ever again.
First they drafted curry who had ankle problems and took a paycut....turns into MVP
thompson - Turns into one of the best SG in the leage
Draymond -2nd rounder def MVP(can shoot threes)
CBA goes crazy gives every team a max -Durant lands.
This will never happen again. |
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2019
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Joined: 03 Dec 2014
Posts: 10804
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| Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Lakerz113 wrote: | The Only way to compete in the NBA today is to get two superstars to pair with young talent while they are on rookie deals. Alot of people want to slowly rebuild "like the warriors", but im not sure everyone understands that therir scenario was rare and unlikely to happen ever again.
First they drafted curry who had ankle problems and took a paycut....turns into MVP
thompson - Turns into one of the best SG in the leage
Draymond -2nd rounder def MVP(can shoot threes)
CBA goes crazy gives every team a max -Durant lands.
This will never happen again. |
Yeah well there are 4 guys that can fit the 2 max guy slots this summer: James, Westbrook, PG, Cousins.
Any 2 of those guys would be welcome additions and would make us contenders.
If Bron stats in Cleveland or ends up in Houston, I'd love to see us get PG and Cousins. |
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Jiggling Jello
Sixth Man
Joined: 22 May 2017
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Lakerz113 wrote: | The Only way to compete in the NBA today is to get two superstars to pair with young talent while they are on rookie deals. Alot of people want to slowly rebuild "like the warriors", but im not sure everyone understands that therir scenario was rare and unlikely to happen ever again.
First they drafted curry who had ankle problems and took a paycut....turns into MVP
thompson - Turns into one of the best SG in the leage
Draymond -2nd rounder def MVP(can shoot threes)
CBA goes crazy gives every team a max -Durant lands.
This will never happen again. |
It is exactly because this will never happen again (as long as the NBA doesn't come into some huge sum of money) that some people are content with letting the rebuild happen slowly until the Warriors decline. Plus, signing older superstars like LeBron forces the window of championship contention to coincide with the Warriors' period of dominance and constrains cap space even more, since they'll be entitled to the larger/largest max contracts.
I think it would be more apt to say that some people want to build the OKC way. Lest we forget, they had Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, James Harden, and good role players in Serge Ibaka, Thabo Sefolosha, and Nick Collison. They also had Reggie Jackson on the team, although he wasn't the player he is now. The name of the game these days is good drafting, good cap management, good team building, and asset stockpiling. We saw what happened with the Nash/Kobe/Gasol/Dwight and trying to assemble a team of stars with play styles that didn't fit, so trying to grab whatever 2 superstars in free agency regardless of fit isn't necessarily the best idea. Mitch and Jim learned their lesson, but they got canned before they could see the team grow. We'll see what happens and how Maginka maneuvers the team, and I'm anxious to see the outcome.
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blackmamba08
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Posts: 2608
Location: Croatia
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| Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:44 am Post subject: |
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| Future is bright for Lakers definitely. I cannot wait the season to start. This team will be so much fun to watch. They are going to lose many games because lack of experience. NBA is grown man league. But it will be fun and I am counting days until the start. GO LAKERS |
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Eindhoven
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Posts: 1930
Location: Zürich
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| Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:17 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | awntawn wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Not sure how we could keep KCP/Lopez/Jules.
At best you can keep 2 of them, and no, that's not enough for a contender. |
pretty sure we can keep all our guys, we just can't sign anyone else. that's why we have the cap holds, no? |
I'm including Jules cap hold.
KCP and Lopez would have to split 28m assuming we get pg13. |
You're considering a scenario where we stretch Deng, right? Let's assume we can move Deng and JC for future picks; not likely, but, who knows?
We have 7 players under contract making around $ 22M (Lonzo, Ingram, Ennis, Nance, Kuzma, Hart and Zubac) + $ 1M for Bryant = $ 23M. Julius' cap hold is around $ 12M and PG-13 max contract, about $ 30M.
Assuming something like $ 102M in Cap Space for 2018, we still have $ 37M for Lopez, KCP and 3 more players (plus vet mins and exceptions), as long as we sign Julius last. I can see KCP and Lopez signing for $ 18M or so, each.
But, if we're able to dump only Clarkson for picks/expirings (that's not hard) and stretch Deng's contract, the impact would be around $7,2M, so we'd have $ 30M to split between Lopez and KCP, which is still doable, depending on how they feel about the team.
We need a solid 7-man rotation to be competitive and Ball / Pope / George / Ingram / Kuzma / Randle / Lopez is quite a good one.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:21 am Post subject: |
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| Eindhoven wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | awntawn wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Not sure how we could keep KCP/Lopez/Jules.
At best you can keep 2 of them, and no, that's not enough for a contender. |
pretty sure we can keep all our guys, we just can't sign anyone else. that's why we have the cap holds, no? |
I'm including Jules cap hold.
KCP and Lopez would have to split 28m assuming we get pg13. |
You're considering a scenario where we stretch Deng, right? Let's assume we can move Deng and JC for future picks; not likely, but, who knows?
We have 7 players under contract making around $ 22M (Lonzo, Ingram, Ennis, Nance, Kuzma, Hart and Zubac) + $ 1M for Bryant = $ 23M. Julius' cap hold is around $ 12M and PG-13 max contract, about $ 30M.
Assuming something like $ 102M in Cap Space for 2018, we still have $ 37M for Lopez, KCP and 3 more players (plus vet mins and exceptions), as long as we sign Julius last. I can see KCP and Lopez signing for $ 18M or so, each.
But, if we're able to dump only Clarkson for picks/expirings (that's not hard) and stretch Deng's contract, the impact would be around $7,2M, so we'd have $ 30M to split between Lopez and KCP, which is still doable, depending on how they feel about the team.
We need a solid 7-man rotation to be competitive and Ball / Pope / George / Ingram / Kuzma / Randle / Lopez is quite a good one. |
KCP turned down a 5 year/80m deal. That's about 16m/year. I doubt he's splitting 30m with Lopez.
Not sure if KCP/Lopez are enough to lure PG13 here. I would be fine with that but not sure it's enough.
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