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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:20 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | 33-34 year old LBJ is nothing like a prime LBJ. . |
Sure he is.
He turns 33 in a few months. Last season, he put up career highs in rebounding and assists on route to a 26-9-9 season. At some point he'll stop playing at an MVP level, but he still is right now. |
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Sina Star Player
Joined: 12 Jul 2015 Posts: 1793
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Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:28 am Post subject: |
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The good is LBJ can still carry a team for 2-3 more years. Hopefully, our young players can carry him back then.
However, the gap between LBJ and our young players are too big to overcome IMO. LBJ has already had 8 Finals appearances while most of our young players still know nothing about playoffs.
So I don't buy to get LBJ and think LBJ wouldn't want to join us. |
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Vin Star Player
Joined: 03 Jan 2013 Posts: 6005 Location: France
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Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:35 am Post subject: |
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Sina wrote: | The good is LBJ can still carry a team for 2-3 more years. Hopefully, our young players can carry him back then.
However, the gap between LBJ and our young players are too big to overcome IMO. LBJ has already had 8 Finals appearances while most of our young players still know nothing about playoffs.
So I don't buy to get LBJ and think LBJ wouldn't want to join us. |
Agreed. I just don't get why he'd come here. He wants rings and he wants them now. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:49 am Post subject: |
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activeverb wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | 33-34 year old LBJ is nothing like a prime LBJ. . |
Sure he is.
He turns 33 in a few months. Last season, he put up career highs in rebounding and assists on route to a 26-9-9 season. At some point he'll stop playing at an MVP level, but he still is right now. |
His defense has slipped compared to his 2010-13 levels. He was one of the worst Cavs defenders in the Finals. And you saw how KD and Iggy repeatedly backdoored him on defense. The biggest slowdown is defense. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Lucky_Shot Star Player
Joined: 10 Jan 2016 Posts: 5140
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Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:04 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | So all Randle has to do is become an All-Star, improve dramatically on his 3s and D. Gotcha. |
Haha yeah ALL he has to do is improve from being one of the worst defenders and 3pt shot takers in the game.... that's it! |
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Four Decade Bandwagon Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2014 Posts: 8127
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Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:19 am Post subject: |
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activeverb wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | 33-34 year old LBJ is nothing like a prime LBJ. . |
Sure he is.
He turns 33 in a few months. Last season, he put up career highs in rebounding and assists on route to a 26-9-9 season. At some point he'll stop playing at an MVP level, but he still is right now. |
The age is not what concerns me. It's the pounding or mileage he has taken over the years. This will be his 15th season with already over 50,000 career mins logged. Add this season of near MVP level and another 3,000 mins. before the Lakers are even "lucky" enough to sign him.
I believe someone earlier stated the Lakers should "kiss his feet" if he even considers it.
My concern is with that attitude. Because the FO apparently shares it. As do many Laker fans. Not sure how it gets dismissed that there is a downside.
James will be in his 16th season. Over 54,000 mins logged and apparently seeking the max in the range of $38-40M for the privilege of signing him for a couple years.
James can't win with two All-stars in Love and Irving and a team constructed to his demands for over the past couple years. In the weal East Conference. Yet he is going to come to the Lakers to mentor for a couple years? Because I doubt he is competing unless some dramatic changes are made. Even then a longshot.
The James Farewell Tour will be a winderful feel good story until the Lakers get bounced early for a couple years, making James unhappy about his "help" and then continues to get increasingly distracted by his business entities in seasons 17 and 18.
Am I missing something? Other then the more rosy picture everyone likes to put on the current MVP level James and the 2 max plan while ignoring any if not all the downsides of such a move. |
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Lucky_Shot Star Player
Joined: 10 Jan 2016 Posts: 5140
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Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | activeverb wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | 33-34 year old LBJ is nothing like a prime LBJ. . |
Sure he is.
He turns 33 in a few months. Last season, he put up career highs in rebounding and assists on route to a 26-9-9 season. At some point he'll stop playing at an MVP level, but he still is right now. |
The age is not what concerns me. It's the pounding or mileage he has taken over the years. This will be his 15th season with already over 50,000 career mins logged. Add this season of near MVP level and another 3,000 mins. before the Lakers are even "lucky" enough to sign him.
I believe someone earlier stated the Lakers should "kiss his feet" if he even considers it.
My concern is with that attitude. Because the FO apparently shares it. As do many Laker fans. Not sure how it gets dismissed that there is a downside.
James will be in his 16th season. Over 54,000 mins logged and apparently seeking the max in the range of $38-40M for the privilege of signing him for a couple years.
James can't win with two All-stars in Love and Irving and a team constructed to his demands for over the past couple years. In the weal East Conference. Yet he is going to come to the Lakers to mentor for a couple years? Because I doubt he is competing unless some dramatic changes are made. Even then a longshot.
The James Farewell Tour will be a winderful feel good story until the Lakers get bounced early for a couple years, making James unhappy about his "help" and then continues to get increasingly distracted by his business entities in seasons 17 and 18.
Am I missing something? Other then the more rosy picture everyone likes to put on the current MVP level James and the 2 max plan while ignoring any if not all the downsides of such a move. |
LBJ's age does scary me this is the point where many great players become only good. Shaq was still a monster at 33 at 34 he lost a step, he was still good but didnt make the allstars.
I would rather go for Cousins or PG13 but than again LBJ is the best in the game so if we pick him up I wont be mad. We're the Lakers if we pick up LBJ we will put a good team around him and people will want to play here to take down the GSW. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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I think there has been a steady dropoff in LBJ's defense over the years. This Finals it was pretty bad.
I'd expect him to want a bunch of younger and athletic bodies around him. The problem with the Cavs is they are stuck with a bunch of slower and unathletic bodies who can't keep up with the Warriors. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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splashmtn Star Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2016 Posts: 3961
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Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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MJST wrote: | Don't want a Miami like Superteam.
I want a Warriors like Superteam, where our kids grow into stars and a homegrown championship contender and then sign a max free agent to add on to it and thus set us up for a 5-6 year run and Spurs-like consistency going forward. | lol. does it matter? no. if you've been a laker fan long enough. You would recall we were both the heat and gstate. we drafted a star or two and traded for or picked up as a FA, a star or two.
well, right now we have two possible drafted stars(so check that off the list). and if 2018 summer goes down like we think it will. we will have 2 star FA's. Back to the way things were. Remember we are miami since Riles got his blueprint from Jwest and Doc Buss. Remember we are GSW since JW gave them the laker Blueprint. We're not them. They are us. We've been doing this. this aint new. |
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Four Decade Bandwagon Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2014 Posts: 8127
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Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | I think there has been a steady dropoff in LBJ's defense over the years. This Finals it was pretty bad.
I'd expect him to want a bunch of younger and athletic bodies around him. The problem with the Cavs is they are stuck with a bunch of slower and unathletic bodies who can't keep up with the Warriors. |
But wasn't every move given the green light by James to get that "slow and unathletic" roster? He and his team orchestrated every move from acquiring Love, keeping Thompson and Irvng, every free agent signing and even dumping Blatt for a more manageable Lue. His team and accountability.
Now the proposed plan is to make a declining James the foundation piece with a max contract? Also don't discount the expectations of winning and Conference Finals. Are they really capable of winning multiple playoff series with a declining James? Maybe they are, but can we at least acknowledge the reality that it has just as much a chance to blow up in the Laker's faces as not signing him?
If you have the point of view that James coming is a glorious thing how far a leap is it see the FO bending over to his every whim? Making the trades and signing the players he feels most capable of winning in the West? Because any struggles surely could not be the fault of the King!
Even though, as you point out, his defense was questionable in the Finals. Durant lights him up and it is the fault of the old unathletic team not James. He put up the numbers. |
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outkast100 Starting Rotation
Joined: 16 Nov 2012 Posts: 140
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Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | The Heat were insanely top heavy. I mean they had guys who don't even play anymore like Chalmers and that one center whose name I forgot but its on the tip of my tongue errr fingers.
I don't think we have anyone on this roster that is Lebron like. If we become a great team, I think we end up doing it with great depth. |
And another huge difference, assuming we keep Lonzo/ingram (we should), is that we would sort of be half competing/half building for the future. |
The "half competing/half rebuilding" is where the logic of this plan escapes me.
Right I'm not for the please bron mode that Clvd had to endure his entire stay there. Magic and Rob better not cave to LB. We need to be spurs/GS like I'd prefer westbrook and PG13 or PG and Boogie to a self centered Bron. Now if he's down to be a team player then we will take you Bron. But Magic runs this show
James for 2-3 years is an all in high risk move. I do not believe he is signing with the Lakers to mentor or be the custodian of the future. He is all about James and his legacy. He wants to win now. There is no other reason to sign him otherwise.
If James is signed it only makes sense to go full speed ahead and surround him with vets ready to compete. All trades and salary dumps are fair game, including the "untouchables".
To "win now" they need players ready to win now. Not 20-21 year olds learning to be a pro. Timeline is simply wrong for this to work IMO. Five years ago, no issue. 2018 it is misguided but plays well in the media. Hell, even M. Barnes and ESPN are saying its awesome. What could go wrong!
The rhetoric and hype remind me of Pyramid schemes and 0 down / ARM loans. Too good to be true for a reason. Dismissing the downsides and high risk and getting caught up in the positive momentum. |
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outkast100 Starting Rotation
Joined: 16 Nov 2012 Posts: 140
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Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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forgot how to post
Right I'm not for the please bron mode that Clvd had to endure his entire stay there. Magic and Rob better not cave to LB. We need to be spurs/GS like I'd prefer westbrook and PG13 or PG and Boogie to a self centered Bron. Now if he's down to be a team player then we will take you Bron. But Magic runs this show |
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MJST Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 26085
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Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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scoobs wrote: | MJST wrote: | Don't want a Miami like Superteam.
I want a Warriors like Superteam, where our kids grow into stars and a homegrown championship contender and then sign a max free agent to add on to it and thus set us up for a 5-6 year run and Spurs-like consistency going forward. | Cute...real freaking cute...Who the heck cares about our kids? It doesn't matter how we get there, as long as we get there! |
Longevity over a 2 year run where we still won't beat the Warriors and will likely have to sacrifice 2 of our youngsters because LeBron isn't waiting. He got rid of Wiggins, you think he wouldn't push for Ball or Ingram to be unloaded too? If he doesn't feel like waiting even a season for Wiggins to come around, he isn't waiting for Ingram or Ball to "get it" and will push for them to be moved in attempt to get more vets he thinks would help him contend for a championship right away, and with his constant 1+1 could bolt at any moment leaving us with the mess he made like he's going to do in Cleveland, a mess Kyrie wants out of.
Yes, I'll much prefer developing our kids into stars and making smart moves, building around them, going after a guy like Cousins who will actually commit to 4 years and our vacant center position once Lopez leaves, and let our kids grow and have longevity and consistency instead of blowing it all on a 2 year run that still won't beat the Warriors that once LeBron abandons we'll be back in the lottery for the next 4 years all over again.
Ether way, I would rather build the Spurs/Warriors way than the Heat/Cavs way. That would be the most desired outcome.
Keep in mind LeBron is 1-3 in his last 4 finals so it's not even a "sure thing" anymore. Even for him to lead the Cavs to beat the Warriors before Durant took not just a monumental effort, but a suspended Draymond an injured Bogut and a hurt Curry.
So Lebron doesn't equal "beat the Warriors", heck Lebron + George doesn't even mean you beat the Warriors. Because our youngsters are 19 at the youngest and 22 at the oldest and they aren't ready to take that step in their 2nd and 3rd years respectively.
So rather than deal with LeBron holding us hostage on 1+1 I'd much rather sign a guy that's committing for 4 seasons than a mercenary. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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MJST Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 26085
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Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | I think there has been a steady dropoff in LBJ's defense over the years. This Finals it was pretty bad.
I'd expect him to want a bunch of younger and athletic bodies around him. The problem with the Cavs is they are stuck with a bunch of slower and unathletic bodies who can't keep up with the Warriors. |
Kyrie is 25, Thompson is 26, Love is 28
They're young the only people over 30 in That lineup is Smith and James.
Also all LeBron's super teams run a slow pace and he likes to coast through the season. Idk if Lonzo is our point guard if we'd be wanting to run the slow pace LeBron does. If anything that would hinder his style and his strengths and I'm not building around a 35 year old LeBron James. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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markjay Star Player
Joined: 12 Feb 2006 Posts: 3913 Location: O.C.
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Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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Kareem was 12 years older than Magic and 14 years older than Worthy, and those teams were darn good. LeBron is 13 years older than both Ingram and Lonzo, and 5 years older than PG. That team can compete for the championship for years!! |
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dlofan Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 Jan 2016 Posts: 395
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Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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We will be Miami for the next 5 years, then we will be the Warriors for the next 10
Lakers "Heat" team in 2018
Westbrook Gelo Ball
Lonzo hart
PG13 Ingram
Lebron Kuzma Nance
Cousins Zubac
Lakers "Warriors" team around 2021
Melo Ball Hart
Lonzo Gelo Ball
Ingram Ron Artest III
Kuzma Shareef O'Neil
Bol Bol Zubac TBryant |
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Chase.button07 Star Player
Joined: 19 Feb 2017 Posts: 4996
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Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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MJST wrote: | I'm not building around a 35 year old LeBron James. |
The lakers will happily do it
Also when we sign LeBron he will be 33.5 years old and not 35 _________________ Now Playing: The Zo Show @Staples |
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2019 Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Dec 2014 Posts: 10786
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Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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dlofan wrote: | We will be Miami for the next 5 years, then we will be the Warriors for the next 10
Lakers "Heat" team in 2018
Westbrook Gelo Ball
Lonzo hart
PG13 Ingram
Lebron Kuzma Nance
Cousins Zubac
Lakers "Warriors" team around 2021
Melo Ball Hart
Lonzo Gelo Ball
Ingram Ron Artest III
Kuzma Shareef O'Neil
Bol Bol Zubac TBryant |
Any 11 years old prospects we should plan around? How bout toddlers? Any in the fetus? Maybe we should sign every former NBA players son and trade those who aren't. |
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kevin61 Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 1332
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Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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I'm sort of ambivalent about the super team idea. Bringing in a guy like George I'm fine with. LeBron is going to come if he wants. I'm inclined to believe he wants to end his career here. After that, I'm not too interested in anyone else. |
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kevin61 Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 1332
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Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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Gelo Ball is nothing special, I doubt he'll be drafted. The youngest could be impressive. |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | activeverb wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | 33-34 year old LBJ is nothing like a prime LBJ. . |
Sure he is.
He turns 33 in a few months. Last season, he put up career highs in rebounding and assists on route to a 26-9-9 season. At some point he'll stop playing at an MVP level, but he still is right now. |
The age is not what concerns me. It's the pounding or mileage he has taken over the years. This will be his 15th season with already over 50,000 career mins logged. Add this season of near MVP level and another 3,000 mins. before the Lakers are even "lucky" enough to sign him.
I believe someone earlier stated the Lakers should "kiss his feet" if he even considers it.
My concern is with that attitude. Because the FO apparently shares it. As do many Laker fans. Not sure how it gets dismissed that there is a downside.
James will be in his 16th season. Over 54,000 mins logged and apparently seeking the max in the range of $38-40M for the privilege of signing him for a couple years.
James can't win with two All-stars in Love and Irving and a team constructed to his demands for over the past couple years. In the weal East Conference. Yet he is going to come to the Lakers to mentor for a couple years? Because I doubt he is competing unless some dramatic changes are made. Even then a longshot.
The James Farewell Tour will be a winderful feel good story until the Lakers get bounced early for a couple years, making James unhappy about his "help" and then continues to get increasingly distracted by his business entities in seasons 17 and 18.
Am I missing something? Other then the more rosy picture everyone likes to put on the current MVP level James and the 2 max plan while ignoring any if not all the downsides of such a move. |
His minutes is a reasonable concern. But Karl Malone won an MVP after 50,000 so who knows? Right now, I'd say he's a safe bet for a two-year contract.
And if Lebron comes, I assume another star will come too. Then, again, who knows? It really only takes Ball or Ingram developing to make us a contending team. And that's really all you can expect.
Bottom line: If Lebron is available as a free agent, I don't see the Lakers passing him up.
And is there really that much downside in a two-year contract? It's not like we'd be taking Lebron over Durant or Anthony Davis. |
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giordan0 Star Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2016 Posts: 1013
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Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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The typical Lebron 1+1 deals just hold teams to hostage. _________________
_____________________________________
#MPLStheoriginallakeshow
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LandsbergerRules Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 11197 Location: The Other Perspective
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Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:22 am Post subject: |
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kevin61 wrote: | I'm sort of ambivalent about the super team idea. Bringing in a guy like George I'm fine with. LeBron is going to come if he wants. I'm inclined to believe he wants to end his career here. After that, I'm not too interested in anyone else. |
Yeah, if we get the Bron and another max guy next year, I'd be fine with it. But I'd rather get PG if possible, then Klay the year after to both accelerate the Warriors decline and form a devastating backcourt with Lonzo. _________________ "Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him |
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nash Star Player
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 Posts: 8194
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Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:41 am Post subject: |
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LeBron age is not a great reason of concern, with or without him our fate is attached to the development of Ingram and Ball, even Randle to a lesser extent if he shows until next trade deadline that he can play at an all-star level.
I'm a firm believer in winning culture and someone of LeBron caliber is instrumental to the development of our kids on a winning environment.
Old or not if healthy I'm all in for LeBron.
Buck Fostom, I want to win 2 more. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:11 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | Bottom line: If Lebron is available as a free agent, I don't see the Lakers passing him up. |
Yeah. Regardless of our criticisms of this, there is a .0003% chance the Lakers pass up on LBJ if he wants to come here. Magic wants stars and he is one of the biggest ones, warts and all. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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