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dont_be_a_wuss
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 Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:36 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | 33-34 year old LBJ is nothing like a prime LBJ. . |
Sure he is.
He turns 33 in a few months. Last season, he put up career highs in rebounding and assists on route to a 26-9-9 season. At some point he'll stop playing at an MVP level, but he still is right now. |
And he is gonna wait for some 20 year old players to develop? If LeBron is planning to come to the Lakers, it's very likely he is looking at our young guys and playing LeGM in his head figuring out which end-of-their prime superstars can come join him. |
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:39 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | Bottom line: If Lebron is available as a free agent, I don't see the Lakers passing him up. |
Yeah. Regardless of our criticisms of this, there is a .0003% chance the Lakers pass up on LBJ if he wants to come here. Magic wants stars and he is one of the biggest ones, warts and all. |
I agree with you. It would be highly unlikely they pass on James. Nor should they if the conditions are right.
I want to be clear, I am not anti- James. Just the parameters it looks like it will be going to take to add him. I continue to hope it changes. I similar thoughts of adding George too. I look to the example of Butler joining the Wolves not a revamped MIA or CLE model.
If James can take less then max, attempt to fit into the roster instead of reforming it to his liking and truly accept a mentoring role on a young team. I'm all in too. His game is and will continue to decline, can he accept that?
Just do not see that as the realistic path they have to take if he is signed. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:44 am Post subject: |
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| dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | 33-34 year old LBJ is nothing like a prime LBJ. . |
Sure he is.
He turns 33 in a few months. Last season, he put up career highs in rebounding and assists on route to a 26-9-9 season. At some point he'll stop playing at an MVP level, but he still is right now. |
And he is gonna wait for some 20 year old players to develop? If LeBron is planning to come to the Lakers, it's very likely he is looking at our young guys and playing LeGM in his head figuring out which end-of-their prime superstars can come join him. |
Yeah, there's that concern. But as you saw in Miami, with a stronger willed front office, they rebuffed LBJ (part of the reason IMO he eventually left, and also b/c Wade/Bosh were declining). I think Magic's ego > LBJ's and LBJ would have to know that if he's coming here, they're likely keeping Lonzo/Ingram going forward.
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LandsbergerRules
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:51 am Post subject: |
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What would you guys prefer: Bron + PG or Klay in '19 + PG + a weaker Golden State?
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:52 am Post subject: |
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| LandsbergerRules wrote: | | What would you guys prefer: Bron + PG or Klay in '19 + PG + a weaker Golden State? |
I don't think PG/Klay works b/c:
1. PG isn't coming in 2018 without another star
2. Lakers would have to punt a sizeable amount of cap space to 2019 to get Klay.
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LandsbergerRules
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:56 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | LandsbergerRules wrote: | | What would you guys prefer: Bron + PG or Klay in '19 + PG + a weaker Golden State? |
I don't think PG/Klay works b/c:
1. PG isn't coming in 2018 without another star
2. Lakers would have to punt a sizeable amount of cap space to 2019 to get Klay. |
I think PG could be sold on a plan to get Klay. Rumors seemed to suggest that he'd really like that combo. But that aside, which option would you prefer?
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| LandsbergerRules wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | LandsbergerRules wrote: | | What would you guys prefer: Bron + PG or Klay in '19 + PG + a weaker Golden State? |
I don't think PG/Klay works b/c:
1. PG isn't coming in 2018 without another star
2. Lakers would have to punt a sizeable amount of cap space to 2019 to get Klay. |
I think PG could be sold on a plan to get Klay. Rumors seemed to suggest that he'd really like that combo. But that aside, which option would you prefer? |
PG13/Klay, but i just don't think it's realistic that PG13 joins a team that is punting to 2019 with the hope Klay leaves a likely championship team.
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:02 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | 33-34 year old LBJ is nothing like a prime LBJ. . |
Sure he is.
He turns 33 in a few months. Last season, he put up career highs in rebounding and assists on route to a 26-9-9 season. At some point he'll stop playing at an MVP level, but he still is right now. |
And he is gonna wait for some 20 year old players to develop? If LeBron is planning to come to the Lakers, it's very likely he is looking at our young guys and playing LeGM in his head figuring out which end-of-their prime superstars can come join him. |
Yeah, there's that concern. But as you saw in Miami, with a stronger willed front office, they rebuffed LBJ (part of the reason IMO he eventually left, and also b/c Wade/Bosh were declining). I think Magic's ego > LBJ's and LBJ would have to know that if he's coming here, they're likely keeping Lonzo/Ingram going forward. |
This is an interesting point. Likely the crux of the entire James addition.
IMO Magic's ego is placated by being the GM that brought the 2 max plan to the Lakers. James being a part of it is icing on the cake. All the grand intentions of the "untouchables" gets thrown out the window if (still a big if) James made it clear he is open to joining the Lakers.
I can't imagine that press conference. Magic stating after a free agent meeting with James that James would not be signing because of disagreements of the roster and young players. Not happening!
My hope continues to be James understands his decline and accepts the role and less then max to make it work. I am not optimistic that is possible and why I am so sour on the James plan and 2 max plan in general.
Edit: the bigger font was not intentional to emphasize a point . Not sure why it does that every so often. Apparently a glitch on my end. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:07 am Post subject: |
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I don't think Magic wants to sever a possible longer run (fueled later by Lonzo/Ingram) just to placate LBJ's 2-3 year run. That would be foolish and i don't think the Lakers will do that. If LBJ is dictating that Lonzo and/or Ingram are moved for short term players, i don't see them cowing to that.
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Judah
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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It's worth keeping in mind that LeBron would be playing with a third year version of Brandon Ingram and a version of Lonzo Ball that's had both a full NBA season (and offseason) to grow and understand what to expect in the league. So even though they'll both be pretty young still, it's not like LeBron would be signing up to play with two rookies. If second year Ingram is going to be good (and do trust, he will be), then you can bank on third year Ingram being really good. LeBron obviously wouldn't be enticed to sign up if all he had was Ingram and Lonzo as his running mates, so assuming he'd be playing alongside George as well, they wouldn't need Ingram and Lonzo to be bonafide superstars for the team to be competitive. If they were to team up they'd be one of the most dominant duos in recent league history. All they'd need from Ingram and Lonzo is a combined production/impact that's competent enough to lend support while they do the heavy lifting. The combined production of Ingram and Lonzo could be just as impactful as having a third All-Star player next to LeBron and George.
I don't buy the whole, 'LeBron will be playing on one leg' perspective that people have. If it could be said that he's slowing down at all, it's happening at such a minuscule rate that it's difficult to notice. He'll still be the best player in the league a year from now, probably even two years from now. But even if he starts to decline somewhat, let's not forget that George is just now entering his prime. It's likely that his best years as a pro will unfold in this next 3-5 year window. In other words, even as LeBron "declines" George will still be getting better, while Lonzo and BI will be getting older and better themselves, year by year. Being shaped and influenced under the tutelage of LeBron James and Paul George would be a pretty unique experience for the two of them. That alone is likely to expediate their growth imo.
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dcarter4kobe
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | Don't want a Miami like Superteam.
I want a Warriors like Superteam, where our kids grow into stars and a homegrown championship contender and then sign a max free agent to add on to it and thus set us up for a 5-6 year run and Spurs-like consistency going forward. |
If we had the common sense not to sign Deng, Mozgov or any other replacement level player for more than 2 years last summer, the best of both worlds would have been possible.
A stud young core of Randle/Ingram/DLO/Ball with the ability to add 2 maxes
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dcarter4kobe
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | LandsbergerRules wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | LandsbergerRules wrote: | | What would you guys prefer: Bron + PG or Klay in '19 + PG + a weaker Golden State? |
I don't think PG/Klay works b/c:
1. PG isn't coming in 2018 without another star
2. Lakers would have to punt a sizeable amount of cap space to 2019 to get Klay. |
I think PG could be sold on a plan to get Klay. Rumors seemed to suggest that he'd really like that combo. But that aside, which option would you prefer? |
PG13/Klay, but i just don't think it's realistic that PG13 joins a team that is punting to 2019 with the hope Klay leaves a likely championship team. |
I think GS will eventually trade Klay for a top 5 lottery pick before he is a free agent.
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"He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | 33-34 year old LBJ is nothing like a prime LBJ. . |
Sure he is.
He turns 33 in a few months. Last season, he put up career highs in rebounding and assists on route to a 26-9-9 season. At some point he'll stop playing at an MVP level, but he still is right now. |
And he is gonna wait for some 20 year old players to develop? If LeBron is planning to come to the Lakers, it's very likely he is looking at our young guys and playing LeGM in his head figuring out which end-of-their prime superstars can come join him. |
I don't think he'll wait at all. He'll only come if another star like George signs on and Ball or Ingram really show something this year. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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| giordan0 wrote: | | The typical Lebron 1+1 deals just hold teams to hostage. |
All the superstars hold their teams hostage these days. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | giordan0 wrote: | | The typical Lebron 1+1 deals just hold teams to hostage. |
All the superstars hold their teams hostage these days. |
George will surely do something similar (2+1 deal), and he's not even a superstar. |
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dont_be_a_wuss
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | 33-34 year old LBJ is nothing like a prime LBJ. . |
Sure he is.
He turns 33 in a few months. Last season, he put up career highs in rebounding and assists on route to a 26-9-9 season. At some point he'll stop playing at an MVP level, but he still is right now. |
And he is gonna wait for some 20 year old players to develop? If LeBron is planning to come to the Lakers, it's very likely he is looking at our young guys and playing LeGM in his head figuring out which end-of-their prime superstars can come join him. |
I don't think he'll wait at all. He'll only come if another star like George signs on and Ball or Ingram really show something this year. |
Or George comes and he uses Ball or Ingram to get another piece. This isn't 2012, you need a much better team than you did 5 years ago. There's an arms race going on. |
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2019
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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if he wants to win that badly he should come here, take $30MM, and then PG and DMC each take $20MM (on a shorter deal that puts them in position to get their 10 tear vet max).
Either way: LeBron + any other major FA turn us into a real contender.
I don't think Westbrook is out of the picture yet either. |
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Wino
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| Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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| kcxiv wrote: | | nash wrote: |
If Randle plays better than LeBron next season
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what? |
different planet than me. Not sure which left field that came out of. ???
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MJST
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| Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:11 am Post subject: |
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| 2019 wrote: | if he wants to win that badly he should come here, take $30MM, and then PG and DMC each take $20MM (on a shorter deal that puts them in position to get their 10 tear vet max).
Either way: LeBron + any other major FA turn us into a real contender.
I don't think Westbrook is out of the picture yet either. |
Not really. LeBron + Westbrook and our roster don't take us past the Warriors or the Spurs.
The main reason is because of the timing. Our young guys are 19 years old, they aren't ready to make those kind of difference making Finals Changing decisions and plays. Not mature enough or adapted to the NBA enough to make that kind of difference. They'd be anomalies if they were.
Remember, no matter HOW GREAT of a prospect and HOW MUCH HYPE Wiggins had around him when the Cavs drafted him, LeBron had him traded in a heartbeat to get Kevin Love. That tells you how much LeBron feels like "waiting".
Now the fact that the Warriors are even stronger now and built for the future his patience with going for another title is even shorter. That means if LeBron doesn't feel like waiting on Ball or Ingram, either could be gone at his behest, because he'll be holding us on a 1+1 deal and will always use the potential of 'walking' if he doesn't get what he wants.
But the flipside is even if he gets what he wants, if it hinders us down the road, he'll bash us for that and bolt anyway, leaving all the blame on us while taking none of it.
I really don't want that here, I don't care if his name is LeBron James. He's about a half season away from Durant surpassing him as the best player in the NBA, NEXT season, let alone the season after that. So I'm not giving that kind of pull to LeBron.
If I had to pick between two scenarios, I'll take Cousins committing to us for 4 years, and then making a run at Klay in 2019.
I'd prefer the longevity aspect of it as opposed to trying to get LeBron near the twilight of his career everything he wants, still losing to the Warriors and him leaving us high and dry as he goes and is a mercenary elsewhere.
We've been through enough drama the past few years, we don't need James bringing it here. In 2 seasons, Kevin Love feels alienated, and Kyrie no longer wants to be on the same team with the man, that speaks volumes at this point. The fact LeBron spent last season dogging the Cavs front office directly after they gave him everything he wanted, and signed the guys he wanted back by any means necessary because Lebron was complaining if they didn't.
NOW that the team has the highest payroll in the league and couldn't afford to make significant moves afterward, now LeBron wants to talk down about the FO and put the pressure of him leaving in a season back on them, knowing full well there isn't much more they can do. Kyrie saw the writing on the wall and didn't feel like dealing with a team that's built around LeBron as if Kyrie is chop liver and then he bolts and Kyrie has to carry the team again, and not even a team built around him.
Like I said, I don't want any of that drama here. Remember how willing Jeanie said she'd be to make Dwight Howard's wishes come true if it meant him staying? Yeah if LeBron's here you can imagine what that'd be like.
Don't want.
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activeverb
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| Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:59 am Post subject: |
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| dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | 33-34 year old LBJ is nothing like a prime LBJ. . |
Sure he is.
He turns 33 in a few months. Last season, he put up career highs in rebounding and assists on route to a 26-9-9 season. At some point he'll stop playing at an MVP level, but he still is right now. |
And he is gonna wait for some 20 year old players to develop? If LeBron is planning to come to the Lakers, it's very likely he is looking at our young guys and playing LeGM in his head figuring out which end-of-their prime superstars can come join him. |
I don't think he'll wait at all. He'll only come if another star like George signs on and Ball or Ingram really show something this year. |
Or George comes and he uses Ball or Ingram to get another piece. This isn't 2012, you need a much better team than you did 5 years ago. There's an arms race going on. |
Personally, I'm not connected to any particular strategy -- I don't get more enthused by players we draft versus players we trade for versus players we sign as free agents.
I judge moves by the specifics of the moves, rather than from a philosophy that one approach is inherently better than another. So I am fine keeping or trading Ball or Ingram -- just depends on the details. |
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dont_be_a_wuss
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| Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| It's more than personal attachment because we drafted them. It's because they will still be in their prime in 9-10 years. Giving up 10 years for 3 years would be disappointing. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:53 am Post subject: |
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| LandsbergerRules wrote: | | What would you guys prefer: Bron + PG or Klay in '19 + PG + a weaker Golden State? |
Unless they implode Klay isn't leaving GS. He can get paid and compete for titles, why would he leave that?
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nash
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| Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: |
Personally, I'm not connected to any particular strategy -- I don't get more enthused by players we draft versus players we trade for versus players we sign as free agents. |
+1
Kareem is my favorite player ever, Wilt was almost retiring when he came, Shaq, Pau ...
Those guys are all among the all time greats, it is everything that matters.
LeBron was never one of my favorite players, but it is a no brainer if we can sign him. Let's pass Boston in NBA titles and retire his jersey here.
Last edited by nash on Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| nash wrote: | | activeverb wrote: |
Personally, I'm not connected to any particular strategy -- I don't get more enthused by players we draft versus players we trade for versus players we sign as free agents. |
+1
Kareem is my favorite player ever, Wilt was almost retiring when he came, Shaq, Pau ...
Those guys are all among the all time greats, that is everything that matters.
LeBron was never one of my favorite players, but it is a no brainer if we can sign him. Let's pass Boston in NBA titles and retire his jersey here. |
I find Lebron annoying as a person, but he's a great player. Would love to have him on the Lakers. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | It's more than personal attachment because we drafted them. It's because they will still be in their prime in 9-10 years. Giving up 10 years for 3 years would be disappointing. |
It depends how high their primes are (I'm not sure which exact players you mean. Lonzo is not being traded under any circumstance. Let's just stop that). Paul George, for instance, right now is in the prime of his career and can't make third team All-NBA so how important is it? |
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