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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:10 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Why limit yourself to FAs? We have seen some guys in their mid-20's traded this offseason. We actually have several already on the roster.


So what assets are you trading for said players who are closer in age to our 19 year old kids?


That depends on who we are trading for. We have picks and guys like JC, Nance, Kuzma, Zubac and others to offer. Randle too if he wasn't looking at free agency. If things look good this season and Ball and KCP are a great pairing, create cap space to re-sign KCP. That would be a good step toward a long run rebuild.


I doubt those assets get you budding stars, and if we considered those players stars, we wouldn't be trading them.
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2 Max Scenarios:

-JC out for $0/Deng stretched = 57.6m in 2018 cap space
-Same as above and Jules renounced/traded for $0 = 69.9m in 2018 cap space

2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:12 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Why limit yourself to FAs? We have seen some guys in their mid-20's traded this offseason. We actually have several already on the roster.


I guess you're talking about Butler and George, who are both 27.

Trouble is guys like that (1) are usually coming to the end of their contract, which is why they're available, so you risk giving up assets for guys who will bolt; and (2) Not sure whether other GMs are excited about our assets other than Ingram and Ball.


If we are afraid of them bolting then why base a rebuild on signing FAs? That is contradictory.
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:16 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Why limit yourself to FAs? We have seen some guys in their mid-20's traded this offseason. We actually have several already on the roster.


So what assets are you trading for said players who are closer in age to our 19 year old kids?


That depends on who we are trading for. We have picks and guys like JC, Nance, Kuzma, Zubac and others to offer. Randle too if he wasn't looking at free agency. If things look good this season and Ball and KCP are a great pairing, create cap space to re-sign KCP. That would be a good step toward a long run rebuild.


I doubt those assets get you budding stars, and if we considered those players stars, we wouldn't be trading them.


Why limit yourself to stars? Was Horry a star? Horace Grant? Ceballos? No, but they were good trades to bring in talent and move from point A to point B. If you are looking at a long run rebuild you develop stars and surround them with supporting players.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:17 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Why limit yourself to FAs? We have seen some guys in their mid-20's traded this offseason. We actually have several already on the roster.


So what assets are you trading for said players who are closer in age to our 19 year old kids?


That depends on who we are trading for. We have picks and guys like JC, Nance, Kuzma, Zubac and others to offer. Randle too if he wasn't looking at free agency. If things look good this season and Ball and KCP are a great pairing, create cap space to re-sign KCP. That would be a good step toward a long run rebuild.


I doubt those assets get you budding stars, and if we considered those players stars, we wouldn't be trading them.


Why limit yourself to stars? Was Horry a star? Horace Grant? Ceballos? No, but they were good trades to bring in talent and move from point A to point B. If you are looking at a long run rebuild you develop stars and surround them with supporting players.


Horry/Grant flourished b/c they had guys like Kobe/Shaq, MJ/Pippen.

It's clear the FO isn't going that direction after we spent 4 seasons trying to organically rebuild. I know you're not a fan of that move but it is what it is.
_________________
2 Max Scenarios:

-JC out for $0/Deng stretched = 57.6m in 2018 cap space
-Same as above and Jules renounced/traded for $0 = 69.9m in 2018 cap space

2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:32 pm    Post subject:

Yes, the FO seems to want a quick fix. It rarely works and is never sustainable but if they do we live with that. However, during the reign of potentially the most dominant team in NBA history, shooting for competing 3-4 years down the line should be the plan.
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greenfrog
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:33 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Why limit yourself to FAs? We have seen some guys in their mid-20's traded this offseason. We actually have several already on the roster.


So what assets are you trading for said players who are closer in age to our 19 year old kids?


That depends on who we are trading for. We have picks and guys like JC, Nance, Kuzma, Zubac and others to offer. Randle too if he wasn't looking at free agency. If things look good this season and Ball and KCP are a great pairing, create cap space to re-sign KCP. That would be a good step toward a long run rebuild.


I doubt those assets get you budding stars, and if we considered those players stars, we wouldn't be trading them.


Why limit yourself to stars? Was Horry a star? Horace Grant? Ceballos? No, but they were good trades to bring in talent and move from point A to point B. If you are looking at a long run rebuild you develop stars and surround them with supporting players.


Horry/Grant flourished b/c they had guys like Kobe/Shaq, MJ/Pippen.

It's clear the FO isn't going that direction after we spent 4 seasons trying to organically rebuild. I know you're not a fan of that move but it is what it is.


Even the older regime didn't do that. No one from that Pre-Shaq "long rebuild" made the cut when it was time to get serious. The Pre-Lonzo rebuilding years I doubt will fare much differently.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:36 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Yes, the FO seems to want a quick fix. It rarely works and is never sustainable but if they do we live with that. However, during the reign of potentially the most dominant team in NBA history, shooting for competing 3-4 years down the line should be the plan.


The days of getting Shaq and then drafting a Kobe are probably way past us.

The hope IMO is that Lonzo/Ingram turn out to be stars in due time while we get two stars in their prime.

We just have to hope we can keep a long window of contention and not trade out Lonzo/Ingram.
_________________
2 Max Scenarios:

-JC out for $0/Deng stretched = 57.6m in 2018 cap space
-Same as above and Jules renounced/traded for $0 = 69.9m in 2018 cap space

2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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activeverb
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:02 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Why limit yourself to stars? Was Horry a star? Horace Grant? Ceballos? No, but they were good trades to bring in talent and move from point A to point B. If you are looking at a long run rebuild you develop stars and surround them with supporting players.


Horry and Grant were veteran players we acquired after we had already built a strong team, primarily by signing Shaq as a free agent.

In fact, the threepeat team was largely built with the opposite strategy of what you're suggesting. We signed a superstar in Shaq; traded guys we drafted and developed into all stars (Jones, Van Exel), and added lots of old veterans.

Most of our ring teams have had a GOAT level player we traded for or acquired as a free agent (Shaq, Wilt, Kareem). And probably about half of ring teams in recent years were led by a player who wasn't developed by that team.

The approach you advocate is fine; it's worked. The opposite approach, and other approaches have worked fine too. There isn't one best strategy for developing a successful team.
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trablos
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:03 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Why limit yourself to stars? Was Horry a star? Horace Grant? Ceballos? No, but they were good trades to bring in talent and move from point A to point B. If you are looking at a long run rebuild you develop stars and surround them with supporting players.


Horry and Grant were veteran players we acquired after we had already built a strong team, primarily by signing Shaq as a free agent.

In fact, the threepeat team was largely built with the opposite strategy of what you're suggesting. We signed a superstar in Shaq; traded guys we drafted and developed into all stars (Jones, Van Exel), and added lots of old veterans.

Most of our ring teams have had a GOAT level player we traded for or acquired as a free agent (Shaq, Wilt, Kareem). And probably about half of ring teams in recent years were led by a player who wasn't developed by that team.

The approach you advocate is fine; it's worked. The opposite approach, and other approaches have worked fine too. There isn't one best strategy for developing a successful team.

This is it, there is no one way to build a winner. It is dependent on your own personnel along with your competition and the current CBA. I think people like to rely on a certain strategy just because it has been proven before, but forget to look at WHY that strategy worked as well as the events that led up to it.

If you ask me this second, our best chances going forward are a mix of keeping our potential all stars while signing some real all stars that will mentor and lead them so they are ready to take the reigns when they retire.
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activeverb
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:00 pm    Post subject:

trablos wrote:
activeverb wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Why limit yourself to stars? Was Horry a star? Horace Grant? Ceballos? No, but they were good trades to bring in talent and move from point A to point B. If you are looking at a long run rebuild you develop stars and surround them with supporting players.


Horry and Grant were veteran players we acquired after we had already built a strong team, primarily by signing Shaq as a free agent.

In fact, the threepeat team was largely built with the opposite strategy of what you're suggesting. We signed a superstar in Shaq; traded guys we drafted and developed into all stars (Jones, Van Exel), and added lots of old veterans.

Most of our ring teams have had a GOAT level player we traded for or acquired as a free agent (Shaq, Wilt, Kareem). And probably about half of ring teams in recent years were led by a player who wasn't developed by that team.

The approach you advocate is fine; it's worked. The opposite approach, and other approaches have worked fine too. There isn't one best strategy for developing a successful team.

This is it, there is no one way to build a winner. It is dependent on your own personnel along with your competition and the current CBA. I think people like to rely on a certain strategy just because it has been proven before, but forget to look at WHY that strategy worked as well as the events that led up to it.

If you ask me this second, our best chances going forward are a mix of keeping our potential all stars while signing some real all stars that will mentor and lead them so they are ready to take the reigns when they retire.


Bottom line, I think Magic and the Lakers want stars. They'll evaluate what the young players do this year, and what free agents they can get next year. I could see them going any number of ways depending on the opportunities. A year from now I might feel differently, but right now I am not assuming that anyone currently on the roster will be untouchable by the beginning of next season.
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