Joined: 30 Nov 2006 Posts: 33474 Location: Long Beach, California
Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:38 pm Post subject: 2009-2010 Lakers Chances at a Title in the Modern NBA
"Would the 2009-2010 Lakers win a title today?"
That is the question. Now, this isn't about GSW being so much better or the teams being so much more talented than 2010. Rather, this is a question about playing style.
Even with Odom, for the most part, we weren't a team that truly relied on 3pt shooting. The Orlando team we beat, which was known for its crazy and obsessive 3pt shooting, would just be another 3pt shooting team today. We were a team that went big and won by going big, in an era that didn't emphasize the 3 like this one does now. I mean, does a healthy Andrew Bynum even get more than 25 mpg in today's game?
As a team that year, we shot 1562 3s, making 34.1%. For reference, in 2010, that was good for 10th in the league in attempts. Today? That would place us at dead last in attempts at 30th (about 200 less 3s than the 30th place team, the T-Wolves, shot last year). Even Orlando, who led the league in 3pt attempts with 2241 attempted 3s in 2010, would only have been 12th in the league this past year.
So, even if it was only 7 years ago, does that team compete, no less win a title in 2017? _________________ LakersGround's Terms of Service
Prime 29 year old Pau would KILL Zaza in the post. Midrange footwork too good. Pau would avg 24-26 a night with 10 boards and 3-4 assists. Fisher would body up Curry but Curry will still get his but make him work harder than NO defense Kyrie. Kobe would avg an easy 30/6/6 all series. 30 year old World Peace in his physical prime VS a prime KD. Would be fun to watch, even though KD has him 5-6 inches in height. Lakers in 7. BC Kobe. Oh and a Healthy Bynum in 2010 would KILL Javale.
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29258 Location: La La Land
Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:07 pm Post subject:
Fisher would flop/run hard through off-ball screens and draw fouls.
Nobody on GS could guard 2010 Gasol. Garnett was a better defender then, than Green is now. And he couldn't stop Pau.
Phil is a better coach than Kerr.
And given how easily an offensive player can draw fouls nowadays. NOBODY could stop Kobe. He would embarrass Klay. He'd make Klay look like an unathletic, robotic, not-good-enough and never-will-be-good-enough defender.
GS would have a better chance against 2009 Lakers. Since I think Ron defends Durant better than Ariza. Specifically, Durant's ball handling would struggle against Ron's quick hands.
Durant would still put up stats. But not as efficiently as Kobe drawing fouls and get high % shots at will. Kobe is the best player in the series, easily.
And Odom, Pau, and Bynum (off bench) would destroy GS on the glass. Not even close. I genuinely believe SAS this playoffs beat GS if Kawhi doesn't go down. And the scoreboard before Kawhi's injury agrees with me. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Last edited by kikanga on Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
If we had 28 year old Kobe. the 2006-2007 Kobe that avg 32/6/5 for the season. IMO that was his best SHOOTING season. If that Kobe was on the 2010 Lakers vs the Warriors. NO ONE stops KOBE. Kobe would defend Curry/KD on defense entire game with 100% energy while still getting 34/6/6 entire series on offense AND taking all the Clutch shots while playing 40+ minutes without getting tired. 28 KOBE in his physical and bball PRIME.
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35811 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:31 pm Post subject:
That 2010 Lakers team was probably the worst team to win a championship since the turn of the century. Struggled against an ancient Nash and then almost lost to a 50-32 Eastern Conference team.
The 2009 Lakers team got taken to seven games by a Rockets team without both McGrady and Yao and to six games by the Nuggets. The Magic team they faced in the Finals was one of the worst teams to ever make the Finals. (Come on, Hedo Turkoglu as the go to scorer?) If Garnett had never gotten injured, then I think the Celtics would have repeated that year. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
The best teams force their style. They don't follow trends. I like our ability to force GW into playing our tempo and beating them up with our bigs.
Your first statement is true. However, the 2009-10 teams would have to hit more 3s to keep up in modern NBA game.
The Lonzo Ball lakers will be looking to run teams out of the building, so maybe the lakers new style in the Ball era will impose and dominate opponents much like gsw shoots teams out of the building.
Joined: 30 Nov 2006 Posts: 33474 Location: Long Beach, California
Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:58 pm Post subject:
FWIW, I think this Golden State team, with Durant, was clearly more talented than our 2010 team. However, because I think that is such a given, I was trying to just discuss how different the league is today.
With our playing style (going big), I'm not even sure how close to competing we would get. In today's game, LO is a small ball center (especially because he couldn't hit the 3 consistently). Remember how that was always an issue, i.e. LO's 3pt shooting? At the 5, that's fine. I think in today's NBA, most coaches play LO at the 5 and certainly don't play LO and another big (like Bynum or Gasol) big minutes together.
The only "large" front court in the league right now is in New Orleans, and that experiment feels like it won't last past this season. My guess is, in the current era, we would have traded Gasol or Bynum immediately for another an SF or a decent stretch 4. Similarly, I don't think the Celtics go with a front court of KG, Perkins and Wallace. Pierce may have played a lot of 4 today. _________________ LakersGround's Terms of Service
FWIW, I think this Golden State team, with Durant, was clearly more talented than our 2010 team. However, because I think that is such a given, I was trying to just discuss how different the league is today.
With our playing style (going big), I'm not even sure how close to competing we would get. In today's game, LO is a small ball center (especially because he couldn't hit the 3 consistently). Remember how that was always an issue, i.e. LO's 3pt shooting? At the 5, that's fine. I think in today's NBA, most coaches play LO at the 5 and certainly don't play LO and another big (like Bynum or Gasol) big minutes together.
The only "large" front court in the league right now is in New Orleans, and that experiment feels like it won't last past this season. My guess is, in the current era, we would have traded Gasol or Bynum immediately for another an SF or a decent stretch 4. Similarly, I don't think the Celtics go with a front court of KG, Perkins and Wallace. Pierce may have played a lot of 4 today.
I agree with this, well said. Call me crazy but if lebron does come in 2018, I would play him at the 5 for a good chunk of his minutes. The league is just small ball heavy right now. Lonzo with guys who can run the floor and shoot and lebron at the 5...that has a death lineup feel to it imo.
Joined: 30 Nov 2006 Posts: 33474 Location: Long Beach, California
Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:08 pm Post subject:
^Was LO really a stretch 4? I know we wanted him to be and he had potential to be, but did he shoot well enough for that? It is a fair point to say that, with different demands on them, LO and Pau could have adapted. We don't know how well, but its true they could have (especially Pau as you pointed out). FWIW, I think Pau in his prime is an absolute ideal modern day NBA 5. _________________ LakersGround's Terms of Service
Joined: 30 Nov 2006 Posts: 33474 Location: Long Beach, California
Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:16 pm Post subject:
Another question, is 2008-2010 Lamar Odom a better version of Draymond Green? Who would Golden State rather have in Green's role today, 2008-2010 LO or Green? I'm tempted to argue Odom. He'd be even more appreciated in today's era IMO.
Unfortunately, that's also why I'm not sure you'd have Gasol and LO on the same team. They'd both thrive as 5s, but I think you'd really want to limit how many minutes either of them play at the 4 or play together. It'd probably be a more efficient allocation of resources to trade one or the other (along with Bynum) for more perimeter shooting and backcourt help (maybe an upgrade at PG or SF, along with another stretch 4). _________________ LakersGround's Terms of Service
As mentioned ad nauseum, the Warriors' talent is just too overwhelming for any team to deal with. I don't think the 2010 Lakers would have a problem defending them with their positional flexibility (Artest @ SF/PF, Odom @ SF/PF, Gasol @ PF/C, Brown @ PG/SG) so much as they would outscoring the Warriors, since they lacked a strong 3rd scorer to pick up the slack. If they had Luol Deng (circa 2010, not 2017), I think they could beat the Warriors, because they would have the bigs to punish the Warriors and the positional flexibility on defense to give the Warriors a hard time.
I think the 1996 Bulls would have a better chance of beating the Warriors at their own game than the 2010 Lakers, especially if they incorporated Ron Harper into their offense more (he was a 20/5/5 player before joining the Bulls). _________________ This game's in the refrigerator: the door is closed, the lights are out, the eggs are cooling, the butter's getting hard, and the Jell-O's jigglin'!
Another question, is 2008-2010 Lamar Odom a better version of Draymond Green? Who would Golden State rather have in Green's role today, 2008-2010 LO or Green? I'm tempted to argue Odom. He'd be even more appreciated in today's era IMO.
I think it depends how one views the emotional impact a player can have on a game. If you're convinced that there are certain players who constitute for the soul of a team, and this effectively translates on the court, then I can't imagine many with that mindset would surely take Odom. However, I do think Odom's unselfish nature would be more apparent in that system, at-least from a statistical perspective.
^Was LO really a stretch 4? I know we wanted him to be and he had potential to be, but did he shoot well enough for that? It is a fair point to say that, with different demands on them, LO and Pau could have adapted. We don't know how well, but its true they could have (especially Pau as you pointed out).
Draymond Green is not a consistently good 3-point shooter, so I don't see the problem here. _________________ This game's in the refrigerator: the door is closed, the lights are out, the eggs are cooling, the butter's getting hard, and the Jell-O's jigglin'!
Lakers would have no chance at winning. You would have to add another MVP level player to that Lakers squad to even begin a discussion. _________________ (bleep) Kawhi
Joined: 30 Nov 2006 Posts: 33474 Location: Long Beach, California
Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:02 pm Post subject:
Jiggling Jello wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
^Was LO really a stretch 4? I know we wanted him to be and he had potential to be, but did he shoot well enough for that? It is a fair point to say that, with different demands on them, LO and Pau could have adapted. We don't know how well, but its true they could have (especially Pau as you pointed out).
Draymond Green is not a consistently good 3-point shooter, so I don't see the problem here.
But, because of that, Green's best position is at the small ball 5, not the 4. He's not really even that great of a 3pt shooter, despite the amazing open looks he receives. Still, fans celebrate him as "a shooter" because he offers that shooting at a position where expectations are low - the 5. _________________ LakersGround's Terms of Service
Joined: 30 Nov 2006 Posts: 33474 Location: Long Beach, California
Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:04 pm Post subject:
Serenityy wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
Another question, is 2008-2010 Lamar Odom a better version of Draymond Green? Who would Golden State rather have in Green's role today, 2008-2010 LO or Green? I'm tempted to argue Odom. He'd be even more appreciated in today's era IMO.
I think it depends how one views the emotional impact a player can have on a game. If you're convinced that there are certain players who constitute for the soul of a team, and this effectively translates on the court, then I can't imagine many with that mindset would surely take Odom. However, I do think Odom's unselfish nature would be more apparent in that system, at-least from a statistical perspective.
Remember though, a lot of people felt from a chemistry standpoint, LO kept the team together. He was the glue. He was the yin to Kobe's yang. His personality wasn't one like Greens, but maybe he plays a similar role with the Warriors regardless.
I still think one of the best matchup problems for GSW would be the '04 pistons + refs. Billions creates a size problem for Steph. Klay would be occupied chasing Rip. Tayshaun might be able to make things difficult for KD. Draymond and showed would get into a brawl and be ejected from the series. Ben will outwork Zaza. GSW bench way better though
Honestly I've seen the league since Bird and Magic. I'm not sure any team in the last 35 years can take the Warriors. Especially not the 09-10 Lakers whom probably are the weakest title team for the Lakers in that span. Warriors are just a whole new level. _________________ How can I get a copy of a Laker game played on Sunday, March 11, 2001 Sonics/Lakers? If you know PM me please
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