Lakers Nation: Do you want LeBron?
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Do you support LeBron's potential arrival in 2018
Yes
49%
 49%  [ 67 ]
No
40%
 40%  [ 55 ]
Undecided
10%
 10%  [ 14 ]
Total Votes : 136

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Truck Turner
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:52 am    Post subject:

LandsbergerRules wrote:
Lebron loves holding his teams hostage to get what he wants. I think he'd pressure the org to trade Ingram in a second for one of his buddies or another "win now" veteran.


If Lebron signs with the Lakers the only player that would be safe is Ball.

Competing in the West Bron would need all the fire power he could get and Ingram along with some other young players could nab another superstar.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:55 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
We don't have the type of team where you can add two stars and contend. Its very hard to do that unless you have vets coming together.

We really need, at some point and hopefully that point is now, to start building some continuity. Our starting lineup has 3 or more players changing every year.

I'd much rather identify the mainstays, solidify roles, and plug gaps.

Lebron would net us wins, but not continuity, and for me, the latter is more critical given our roster construction today.

And I love James, and have been a defender of his on here for a while now.


THIS THIS THIS.

If we could just sign Bronzie in a vacuum w/o all his baggage sure. But there are risks involved. Anyone who denies them is oversimplifying the situation
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:03 am    Post subject:

Truck Turner wrote:
I think what some people are willfully overlooking is that those of us that don't want Lebron would prefer a more long term plan of developing the young players.

Once you sign Lebron you're in "Win now" mode, and even with Lebron and Paul George there's no guarantee the Lakers make it to the conference finals let alone win an NBA title.


I'm not overlooking this. If I had my way I would have gone with a core of Ball/Russell/Ingram and let them develop. Obviously Lebron doesn't guarantee anything, but neither does hoping all the young players develop. More than likely Ball and Ingram are the only core pieces, in my opinion.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:04 am    Post subject:

Chronicle wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
Chronicle wrote:
The Lebrons wrote:
So for the people that don't want to sign Lebron, what's your plan?
George Lopez and Randle


So Lopez+Randle equals Lebron? Wow.


basketball is not math


So you'd rather have Lopez and Randle over Lebron?
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:46 am    Post subject:

The Lebrons wrote:
Chronicle wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
Chronicle wrote:
The Lebrons wrote:
So for the people that don't want to sign Lebron, what's your plan?
George Lopez and Randle


So Lopez+Randle equals Lebron? Wow.


basketball is not math


So you'd rather have Lopez and Randle over Lebron?


And George
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:49 am    Post subject:

Truck Turner wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
Truck Turner wrote:
I think what some people are willfully overlooking is that those of us that don't want Lebron would prefer a more long term plan of developing the young players.

Once you sign Lebron you're in "Win now" mode, and even with Lebron and Paul George there's no guarantee the Lakers make it to the conference finals let alone win an NBA title.


As there's a guarantee your "long term plan" (basically just Randle) will turn out a player as good as even three years of Lebron? Seriously, what's the more likely outcome?


The long term plan is Randle, Ingram, and Ball....

If Lebron were to sign with the Lakers I'm confident that Ingram and Randle's days would be numbered because Lebron would be pushing for the front office to bring in another established superstar.

And NOBODY is saying that any of our players will be as good as Lebron, not sure why people keep going there.

The point people are making is that Lebron is not an instant cure all nor is he a long term solution.


I said three years of Lebron, and people are making that calculation.

And how is he not an instant cure all? Every crappy team he goes to instantly becomes a contender, and I think it would be largely unfair to say it's not due overwhelmingly to his presence.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:50 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
2019 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
adkindo wrote:
we have been one of the worst teams in the league for the last four years, and pretty much an embarrassment to the Lakers brand/legacy.....and 53% of the voters either do not want or are unsure if they would desire the best player on the planet to join the team.....geez.


What would be the expectations? Say we lose Randle, Deng and JC for this fantasy and end up with Lebron and a re-signed Lopez or KCP. First round playoff exit? Second round? We aren't better than Houston or OKC. Maybe not even the Spurs. Definitely not GS. So we win a playoff series or two while hoping Ingram and Ball develop into star players. Versus keeping role players close to BI and LB's age while hoping they develop into stars. I get the financial benefits and would expect Jeanie to choose that over team development because she has proven over and over that she doesn't care about winning.


The plan is 2 (two) max guys. LeBron + PG then Magic and Rob try and convince Lopez into taking the exception and then paying him the next summer. If their plan works, Lopez/LeBron/George/Ingram/Lonzo. No basketball reason anyone should dislike that team and that team is easily a close 2nd behind GS.

LeBron will age well at PF and even if he slows down, we'd have fire power other places, great young talent, good young guys off the bench, and then vet ring chasers.


There are plans and then there is reality. Getting one max FA would be a great offseason.


The reality is that we are going to go after 2 guys..

LeBron, George, WB, Cousins... all free agents
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:52 am    Post subject:

2019 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
2019 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
adkindo wrote:
we have been one of the worst teams in the league for the last four years, and pretty much an embarrassment to the Lakers brand/legacy.....and 53% of the voters either do not want or are unsure if they would desire the best player on the planet to join the team.....geez.


What would be the expectations? Say we lose Randle, Deng and JC for this fantasy and end up with Lebron and a re-signed Lopez or KCP. First round playoff exit? Second round? We aren't better than Houston or OKC. Maybe not even the Spurs. Definitely not GS. So we win a playoff series or two while hoping Ingram and Ball develop into star players. Versus keeping role players close to BI and LB's age while hoping they develop into stars. I get the financial benefits and would expect Jeanie to choose that over team development because she has proven over and over that she doesn't care about winning.


The plan is 2 (two) max guys. LeBron + PG then Magic and Rob try and convince Lopez into taking the exception and then paying him the next summer. If their plan works, Lopez/LeBron/George/Ingram/Lonzo. No basketball reason anyone should dislike that team and that team is easily a close 2nd behind GS.

LeBron will age well at PF and even if he slows down, we'd have fire power other places, great young talent, good young guys off the bench, and then vet ring chasers.


There are plans and then there is reality. Getting one max FA would be a great offseason.


The reality is that we are going to go after 2 guys..

LeBron, George, WB, Cousins... all free agents


Yes, we go after the top FAs every offseason, except this one. Actually signing one would be great.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:54 am    Post subject:

The Lebrons wrote:
Chronicle wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
Chronicle wrote:
The Lebrons wrote:
So for the people that don't want to sign Lebron, what's your plan?
George Lopez and Randle


So Lopez+Randle equals Lebron? Wow.


basketball is not math


So you'd rather have Lopez and Randle over Lebron?


Once again.... you are oversimplifying the equation.

Signing James pushes the Lakers into a win now short term window. Once going down that path it makes no sense to not make every attempt to win it al in that 2-3 year window. There are no real compromises or half hearted mentoring plans that make any sense.

All in or go the path of letting all those hard earned draft picks develop and build chemistry together. No guarantees with either path. I simply prefer the patient longer term plan. We just prefer different plans.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:59 am    Post subject:

Chronicle wrote:
The Lebrons wrote:
So for the people that don't want to sign Lebron, what's your plan?
George Lopez and Randle


How I read this initially
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:15 am    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
All in or go the path of letting all those hard earned draft picks develop and build chemistry together. No guarantees with either path. I simply prefer the patient longer term plan. We just prefer different plans.


Maybe this is the fundamental disagreement. On one hand you have something real and definable (talent, Lebron, immediate), and on another something that's totally undefinable and may not ever materialize or even matter that much (chemistry, continuity, yadda). I'll take the surer thing every time.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:32 am    Post subject:

Truck Turner wrote:
LandsbergerRules wrote:
Lebron loves holding his teams hostage to get what he wants. I think he'd pressure the org to trade Ingram in a second for one of his buddies or another "win now" veteran.


If Lebron signs with the Lakers the only player that would be safe is Ball.

Competing in the West Bron would need all the fire power he could get and Ingram along with some other young players could nab another superstar.


Here's a crazy thought, and not one that I'm ready to subscribe to. Would this necessarily be bad? Sell the farm (short of Ball) to build another super-team that could compete with GSW, pass the Celtics, and then rebuild with Ball. I'm curious what scenarios people have come up with for this situation. What could our collection of assets (Ingram, Kuzma, Nance, Hart, Zubac, Bryant, Randle, picks) yield in terms of obtaining another star or two to team up with Lebron, PG, and Ball? Who's available and attainable with the CBA salary-matching constraints?
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:33 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
kikanga wrote:
All those players (including Aldridge) would be the best player on our team right now (if they were here).

I think it would be a little more palatable if the poll was more specific. Like if it costs us X, Y, and Z. Do you want Lebron in P&G?
But the fact that it's just a general question. And over half of LG doesn't want a top 2 player in the league. When we can barely win 30 games right now. It's a headscratcher.


On Aldridge: What you're saying is a trap that a lot of front offices fall into. Yes, Aldridge would be the best player on our team. We still wouldn't be a playoff team, though, and I don't think you could win a title if Aldridge was your best or second best player. Aldridge is the basketball equivalent of empty calories.

On Lebron: You can't separate the different issues that go with Lebron. Lebron does not just go to a team and play. Lebron is going to want a roster molded to fit him and designed to win a championship now. However, (1) I don't think you could construct a team that would satisfy Lebron without dumping the young assets, and (2) for as much of a physical marvel as Lebron has been, he is due to fall off the cliff. Basically, I think you would be looking at the '99 Rockets.


Ya. I see alot of people on LG with the same thought pattern as you are explaining.
But my biggest issue with that line of thinking is. It's unrealistic.
Most teams don't go from bottom dweller to championship quality instantly. Most of the time steps have to be taken before the final championship move.
Just because LBJ on his own isn't good enough to beat GS. Doesn't mean we shouldn't sign him. Grab all-NBA/all-star Free Agents whenever possible. Because they attract other all-NBA/all-star Free Agents.
And then you have assets even after LBJ leaves/retires . And if you're thinking the assets will leave once LBJ does. Then Ingram and Ball weren't good enough to attract those stud FA assets on their own in the first place (if we never signed LBJ).
LBJ can be the training wheels for our Ingram and Ball their first couple years in the league. And hopefully by the time LBJ slows down, Ingram and Ball will be taking their game to the next level.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:33 am    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
The Lebrons wrote:
Chronicle wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
Chronicle wrote:
The Lebrons wrote:
So for the people that don't want to sign Lebron, what's your plan?
George Lopez and Randle


So Lopez+Randle equals Lebron? Wow.


basketball is not math


So you'd rather have Lopez and Randle over Lebron?


Once again.... you are oversimplifying the equation.

Signing James pushes the Lakers into a win now short term window. Once going down that path it makes no sense to not make every attempt to win it al in that 2-3 year window. There are no real compromises or half hearted mentoring plans that make any sense.

All in or go the path of letting all those hard earned draft picks develop and build chemistry together. No guarantees with either path. I simply prefer the patient longer term plan. We just prefer different plans.


this
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:35 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
Just because LBJ on his own isn't good enough to beat GS. Doesn't mean we shouldn't sign him. Grab all-NBA/all-star Free Agents whenever possible. Because they attract other all-NBA/all-star Free Agents.
And then you have assets even after LBJ leaves/retires.


But lebron coming here likely means trading away those assets. They wouldnt be here after he leaves
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:41 am    Post subject:

I don't want him especially if we need to cater to him so that our balls end up on a vice grip.


I'll root for the Lakers, even if the hair line somehow ends up here, but its not my preference.
But from someone on here a few months ago, the deal is already set in place and space jam 2 is the main reason
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:43 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
Ya. I see alot of people on LG with the same thought pattern as you are explaining.
But my biggest issue with that line of thinking is. It's unrealistic.
Most teams don't go from bottom dweller to championship quality instantly. Most of the time steps have to be taken before the final championship move.
Just because LBJ on his own isn't good enough to beat GS. Doesn't mean we shouldn't sign him. Grab all-NBA/all-star Free Agents whenever possible. Because they attract other all-NBA/all-star Free Agents.
And then you have assets even after LBJ leaves/retires. And if you're thinking the assets will leave once LBJ does. Then Ingram and Ball weren't good enough to attract those stud FA assets on their own in the first place (if we never signed LBJ).
LBJ can be the training wheels for our Ingram and Ball their first couple years in the league. And hopefully by the time LBJ slows down, Ingram and Ball will be taking their game to the next level.


In a nutshell, this is where the disagreement lies. I think it is even less realistic that Lebron would come to the Lakers under the terms you suggest. Why would he do it? He can stay in Cleveland and be the training wheels for young players. If he comes to the Lakers, we can safely assume that it will be with the condition that the front office does whatever it takes to win now. This means that Ingram and possibly even Ball would be trading chips.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:48 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Ya. I see alot of people on LG with the same thought pattern as you are explaining.
But my biggest issue with that line of thinking is. It's unrealistic.
Most teams don't go from bottom dweller to championship quality instantly. Most of the time steps have to be taken before the final championship move.
Just because LBJ on his own isn't good enough to beat GS. Doesn't mean we shouldn't sign him. Grab all-NBA/all-star Free Agents whenever possible. Because they attract other all-NBA/all-star Free Agents.
And then you have assets even after LBJ leaves/retires. And if you're thinking the assets will leave once LBJ does. Then Ingram and Ball weren't good enough to attract those stud FA assets on their own in the first place (if we never signed LBJ).
LBJ can be the training wheels for our Ingram and Ball their first couple years in the league. And hopefully by the time LBJ slows down, Ingram and Ball will be taking their game to the next level.


In a nutshell, this is where the disagreement lies. I think it is even less realistic that Lebron would come to the Lakers under the terms you suggest. Why would he do it? He can stay in Cleveland and be the training wheels for young players. If he comes to the Lakers, we can safely assume that it will be with the condition that the front office does whatever it takes to win now. This means that Ingram and possibly even Ball would be trading chips.


He lives in LA. His kids are enrolled in school here. He has business interests that align here. I think it's very realistic.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:49 am    Post subject:

^^^^

Yeah, but we've heard that one before about free agents, haven't we?
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:52 am    Post subject:

Chronicle wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Just because LBJ on his own isn't good enough to beat GS. Doesn't mean we shouldn't sign him. Grab all-NBA/all-star Free Agents whenever possible. Because they attract other all-NBA/all-star Free Agents.
And then you have assets even after LBJ leaves/retires.


But lebron coming here likely means trading away those assets. They wouldnt be here after he leaves

From what I've heard. Ball and Ingram are considered untradable by our front office. They want LBJ, George, Ingram, and Ball all on the roster.

If they break that rule and trade Ball or Ingram. I'm assuming it's to land another stud (to put alongside LBJ and George) to make a "big 3". If LBJ then retires/leaves. We still have 2 studs and LBJ's cap space to try and bring in somebody else for another big 3.
There is no guarantee we're a better team if we keep this core together and don't get LBJ. I know that's unpopular to say. But it's true. We're not the only young rebuilding team with high lotto picks. Every fan base of every rebuilding team thinks they have a future championship core. 99% of the time. Those fan bases are wrong.
Take the sure thing. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:57 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
^^^^

Yeah, but we've heard that one before about free agents, haven't we?


Did they have Space Jam 2 on their slate? But really I think the difference is that second max slot. Unlike previous front office attempts the team their selling doesn't have to suck now.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:58 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Ya. I see alot of people on LG with the same thought pattern as you are explaining.
But my biggest issue with that line of thinking is. It's unrealistic.
Most teams don't go from bottom dweller to championship quality instantly. Most of the time steps have to be taken before the final championship move.
Just because LBJ on his own isn't good enough to beat GS. Doesn't mean we shouldn't sign him. Grab all-NBA/all-star Free Agents whenever possible. Because they attract other all-NBA/all-star Free Agents.
And then you have assets even after LBJ leaves/retires. And if you're thinking the assets will leave once LBJ does. Then Ingram and Ball weren't good enough to attract those stud FA assets on their own in the first place (if we never signed LBJ).
LBJ can be the training wheels for our Ingram and Ball their first couple years in the league. And hopefully by the time LBJ slows down, Ingram and Ball will be taking their game to the next level.


In a nutshell, this is where the disagreement lies. I think it is even less realistic that Lebron would come to the Lakers under the terms you suggest. Why would he do it? He can stay in Cleveland and be the training wheels for young players. If he comes to the Lakers, we can safely assume that it will be with the condition that the front office does whatever it takes to win now. This means that Ingram and possibly even Ball would be trading chips.


It's tough to debate you on the bolded considering it disagrees directly with what our FO has been saying. They consider Lonzo and Ingram untradable. They want LBJ, George, Ingram, and Ball all on the same team.
But I'll humor your argument.
if Ball or Ingram gets moved, it's because we got a complete stud in return. Giving us a big 3. Which is a good thing. No guarantee our young core grows into its own big 3. Chances are they won't. Take the sure thing and be happy (if this situation arises, which is not a guarantee).
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:40 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
adkindo wrote:
we have been one of the worst teams in the league for the last four years, and pretty much an embarrassment to the Lakers brand/legacy.....and 53% of the voters either do not want or are unsure if they would desire the best player on the planet to join the team.....geez.


What would be the expectations? Say we lose Randle, Deng and JC for this fantasy and end up with Lebron and a re-signed Lopez or KCP. First round playoff exit? Second round? We aren't better than Houston or OKC. Maybe not even the Spurs. Definitely not GS. So we win a playoff series or two while hoping Ingram and Ball develop into star players. Versus keeping role players close to BI and LB's age while hoping they develop into stars. I get the financial benefits and would expect Jeanie to choose that over team development because she has proven over and over that she doesn't care about winning.


my response is based on the belief that the FO is committed to the "2 Max" plan......I have been clear, if I was GM I would prefer to maintain young depth and add a single star such as PG-13......but if we are locked into seeking 2 Max players, I want absolutely nothing to do with Cousins and I do think Lebron is the superior option on the market. Lebron and PG-13 along with our other guys buys a ticket to the conference finals.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:02 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
kikanga wrote:
All those players (including Aldridge) would be the best player on our team right now (if they were here).

I think it would be a little more palatable if the poll was more specific. Like if it costs us X, Y, and Z. Do you want Lebron in P&G?
But the fact that it's just a general question. And over half of LG doesn't want a top 2 player in the league. When we can barely win 30 games right now. It's a headscratcher.


On Aldridge: What you're saying is a trap that a lot of front offices fall into. Yes, Aldridge would be the best player on our team. We still wouldn't be a playoff team, though, and I don't think you could win a title if Aldridge was your best or second best player. Aldridge is the basketball equivalent of empty calories.

On Lebron: You can't separate the different issues that go with Lebron. Lebron does not just go to a team and play. Lebron is going to want a roster molded to fit him and designed to win a championship now. However, (1) I don't think you could construct a team that would satisfy Lebron without dumping the young assets, and (2) for as much of a physical marvel as Lebron has been, he is due to fall off the cliff. Basically, I think you would be looking at the '99 Rockets.


That drop often happens quickly. Look at Usain Bolt, last year he was the fastest man in the world, now he is finishing third. Lebron put up great numbers in the Finals but looked mortal. He needs more help now than ever and that isn't Ingram and Ball. We will need to make major moves.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:25 pm    Post subject:

Laker_Town wrote:
I don't want him especially if we need to cater to him so that our balls end up on a vice grip.


I'll root for the Lakers, even if the hair line somehow ends up here, but its not my preference.
But from someone on here a few months ago, the deal is already set in place and space jam 2 is the main reason


LeBron coming here is very much a business/lifestyle move as much as bsketball. Which is fine by me. His drive is still higher than 99% of the NBA. I

If you signed Bron + PG + convince Lope to take the exception for 1 year, add that to a young core of Lonzo, Ingram, Kuzma, Nance, Hart, and Zu you've got current superstars/all stars, potential superstars in Lonzo and BI, very good role players in Kuz, Nance, Hart, and (I guess ) Zu. Veteran ring chasers are going to flock here to round out that roster. That is a legit threat to GS.

LeBron would be such a great mentor/teammate for Lozno (and BI) and then PG could really help Brandon. Those kids would only get better and as LeBron fades, PG/Lonzo/BI take over larger roles.

I'm not sure this rhetoric of our window would be short. As long as Lonzo and Ingram become special players and we continue to draft gems, we're more than good long term.

It's great to keep open as long a window as possible but waiting forever to get to that type of window is foolish. In this situation, we'd be incredible now and have plenty to look forward to for the next 10 years.
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