Boston takes an unusual turn
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:20 am    Post subject:

non-player zealot wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
unleasHell wrote:
The news out of Boston is that they traded Thomas due to his hip injury, if that news, along with the physical prevents him from being accepted by the Cav's then the Cav's can void the trade...


Well...this is going to be awkward...


How unloyal to the Celts IT is if he causes this trade to be nixed.


Why would you be loyal to a team trading you?
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:49 am    Post subject:

non-player zealot wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
unleasHell wrote:
The news out of Boston is that they traded Thomas due to his hip injury, if that news, along with the physical prevents him from being accepted by the Cav's then the Cav's can void the trade...


Well...this is going to be awkward...


How unloyal to the Celts IT is if he causes this trade to be nixed.


IT didn't do anything wrong. He's not pulling a Payton where he refused to report for the physical. In fact, I hope karma bites a big one out of Ainge and the celtics are forced to give up more for Irving. And on the flip side, screw the Cavs, I hope they get screwed on the picks (either by poor drafting or the Nets and Lakers being playoff-caliber teams) and LeBron leaves. Even better would be if the teams are at a stalemate in the trade talks and the Lakers somehow get involved and dump Deng in the deal. Karmic justice for all parties involved!
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Shecky
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 1:52 pm    Post subject:

LAkers 4 Life wrote:
non-player zealot wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
unleasHell wrote:
The news out of Boston is that they traded Thomas due to his hip injury, if that news, along with the physical prevents him from being accepted by the Cav's then the Cav's can void the trade...


Well...this is going to be awkward...


How unloyal to the Celts IT is if he causes this trade to be nixed.


IT didn't do anything wrong. He's not pulling a Payton where he refused to report for the physical. In fact, I hope karma bites a big one out of Ainge and the celtics are forced to give up more for Irving. And on the flip side, screw the Cavs, I hope they get screwed on the picks (either by poor drafting or the Nets and Lakers being playoff-caliber teams) and LeBron leaves. Even better would be if the teams are at a stalemate in the trade talks and the Lakers somehow get involved and dump Deng in the deal. Karmic justice for all parties involved!


LOL. Yeah, I can clearly envision where the Lakers could jump in and dump a horrible contract in a trade involving two of the NBA's best guards. Maybe they can throw in a 2020 first-round pick; that outta get it done.
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unleasHell
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:09 am    Post subject:

Look, we all know Ainge & Gilbert are idiots, but I feel compelled to help them so I don't have to hear about this any longer, all they have to do is amend the current trade proposal to add the following:

IF IT misses:

40% of the games next NBA season due to his hip injury Boston will add their 2018 Second Round pick.

75% of the games next NBA season due to his hip injury Boston will add their 2018 First Round pick.

100% of the games next NBA season due to his hip injury Boston will add the Lakers 2018 First Round pick.

Simple and fair to both teams...
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:07 am    Post subject:

unleasHell wrote:
Look, we all know Ainge & Gilbert are idiots, but I feel compelled to help them so I don't have to hear about this any longer, all they have to do is amend the current trade proposal to add the following:

IF IT misses:

40% of the games next NBA season due to his hip injury Boston will add their 2018 Second Round pick.

75% of the games next NBA season due to his hip injury Boston will add their 2018 First Round pick.

100% of the games next NBA season due to his hip injury Boston will add the Lakers 2018 First Round pick.

Simple and fair to both teams...


I don't like Danny Ainge, but I give him credit for recognizing he has a stronger bargaining position than needing to be bullied into something akin to those conditions. He can afford to offer much less as an adjunct improvement and sit back on the risk of letting Cleveland threaten to let the deal rescind. Kyrie's been scorched in a fire sale and Cleveland would get even less in a subsequent deal with another club.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:03 am    Post subject:

Wilkes52 wrote:
unleasHell wrote:
Look, we all know Ainge & Gilbert are idiots, but I feel compelled to help them so I don't have to hear about this any longer, all they have to do is amend the current trade proposal to add the following:

IF IT misses:

40% of the games next NBA season due to his hip injury Boston will add their 2018 Second Round pick.

75% of the games next NBA season due to his hip injury Boston will add their 2018 First Round pick.

100% of the games next NBA season due to his hip injury Boston will add the Lakers 2018 First Round pick.

Simple and fair to both teams...


I don't like Danny Ainge, but I give him credit for recognizing he has a stronger bargaining position than needing to be bullied into something akin to those conditions. He can afford to offer much less as an adjunct improvement and sit back on the risk of letting Cleveland threaten to let the deal rescind. Kyrie's been scorched in a fire sale and Cleveland would get even less in a subsequent deal with another club.


Boston isn't in significantly better shape.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:18 am    Post subject:

Well, I see a strong advantage. I practiced labor law for most of my career. I can see an advantage when it's there.

Worst case scenario for Boston is Ainge returns to his pre-trade roster when Cleveland files to void the deal, not a bad place to be at all for the Celtics. He could alternatively offer almost next to nothing of value to entice Cleveland to stay in the deal, and if it works - great. If not, great too, nothing ventured or lost.

By comparison, Cleveland's house is burning down, desperate to act with an unhappy LeBron and Kyrie trying to force a trade. That club deperately wants to complete this deal ASAP to make an attempt to keep LJ, and failing keeping him, it's a rebuild in the same action. Irving is a pariah in Cleveland while LeBron is there. Cleveland must deal with someone and/or rebuild - now.

It's ideal for Boston.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:57 pm    Post subject:

Wilkes52 wrote:
Well, I see a strong advantage. I practiced labor law for most of my career. I can see an advantage when it's there.

Worst case scenario for Boston is Ainge returns to his pre-trade roster when Cleveland files to void the deal, not a bad place to be at all for the Celtics. He could alternatively offer almost next to nothing of value to entice Cleveland to stay in the deal, and if it works - great. If not, great too, nothing ventured or lost.

By comparison, Cleveland's house is burning down, desperate to act with an unhappy LeBron and Kyrie trying to force a trade. That club deperately wants to complete this deal ASAP to make an attempt to keep LJ, and failing keeping him, it's a rebuild in the same action. Irving is a pariah in Cleveland while LeBron is there. Cleveland must deal with someone and/or rebuild - now.

It's ideal for Boston.


Right. Worth noting CLE has exactly zero 1st round picks 'til 2021; they desperately want that BKN pick. One top of that, only Kyrie has asked to be traded. If this falls thru and they can't get a reasonable trade offer he won't even report to Cavs camp. They won't find a better deal than what Boston offered and Irving won't find a better situation to be traded to than the Celtics. He will be really, really angry and CLE will have to trade him. Pronto.
95% of the NBA's so-called pundits and analysts think Cleveland handily won this trade anyway. If I'm Ainge I'd give 'em a 2nd round pick.
Also, I'm not sure the Cavs didn't have this scenario in mind before ever agreeing on the trade. No way they didn't know Thomas was hurt and they'd had his medical records for days. Then they have the physical and it becomes "tell Boston we need more."
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:15 pm    Post subject:

Don't think Celtics care about winning it all for the time being. I think they're just waiting till the Cavaliers are on a decline in roster-wise.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:04 am    Post subject:

Conker wrote:
Don't think Celtics care about winning it all for the time being. I think they're just waiting till the Cavaliers are on a decline in roster-wise.


Age wise they are setting up nicely for that.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:02 am    Post subject:

It's a remarkable twist for the CLE franchise, the East's beast and three-time Finals team. I call it essentially a self-destruct. How closely does this remind us of how the player discord on the Shaq-Kobe Lakers led management to dial-up the Shaq trade, subsequently bringing three seasons of the stumbling that followed ?

I guess I won't personally know until three more years pass and we actually can see how this plays out. It feels familiar, so far.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:20 pm    Post subject:

Wilkes52 wrote:
It's a remarkable twist for the CLE franchise, the East's beast and three-time Finals team. I call it essentially a self-destruct. How closely does this remind us of how the player discord on the Shaq-Kobe Lakers led management to dial-up the Shaq trade, subsequently bringing three seasons of the stumbling that followed ?

I guess I won't personally know until three more years pass and we actually can see how this plays out. It feels familiar, so far.


But reversed in roles. The older alpha dog probably will end up leaving after the season and the younger alpha dog-in-training already got out of Dodge. Cleveland will have to go through a complete reset if/when LeBron leaves.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 7:17 pm    Post subject:

I have a Hard time believing kyrie and Hayward equal an elite 1. 2. Punch.
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:19 pm    Post subject:

Halflife wrote:
I have a Hard time believing kyrie and Hayward equal an elite 1. 2. Punch.


Especially if those players Philly drafted reach their potential. Boston may potentially take over if the Cavs lose Lebron but I'm afraid their reign at the top will be short lived.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:31 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
Halflife wrote:
I have a Hard time believing kyrie and Hayward equal an elite 1. 2. Punch.


Especially if those players Philly drafted reach their potential. Boston may potentially take over if the Cavs lose Lebron but I'm afraid their reign at the top will be short lived.

I love Tatum but they also lost Bradley. Had rondo not gotten hurt they lose to bulls. But either way. I question if Hayward is a #2 and kyrie is sick but he's an ISO guy. Tough when he's your #1.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:02 am    Post subject:

70sdude wrote:
PG Kyrie Irving

SG Gordon Hayward

SF Jaylen Brown

PF Jayson Tatum

C Al Horford

With sixth man Marcus Smart, it's a pretty nice looking start to a rotation. They'll beat most teams handily, if all six stay reasonably healthy.


This team isn't going anywhere unless Brown and Tatum reach all-star potential. And Horford stays in great shape...

I think Ainge is not done. He knows he has to go all in for another superstar.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:11 am    Post subject:

Ibn Rushd wrote:
70sdude wrote:
PG Kyrie Irving

SG Gordon Hayward

SF Jaylen Brown

PF Jayson Tatum

C Al Horford

With sixth man Marcus Smart, it's a pretty nice looking start to a rotation. They'll beat most teams handily, if all six stay reasonably healthy.


This team isn't going anywhere unless Brown and Tatum reach all-star potential. And Horford stays in great shape...

I think Ainge is not done. He knows he has to go all in for another superstar.


He doesn't need another superstar. They've got the offensive firepower, they've got their closer, it's going to be a matter of how well they gel on the defensive end.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:54 am    Post subject:

Isaiah Thomas- Avery Bradley-Markelle Fultz-Jae Crowder-Nets pick-Ante Zizic

FOR

Kyrie Irving-Gordon Hayward-Jason Tatum-Marcus Morris-Lakers pick


Good upgrade, just feel like looking at the pieces going out... Celtics should've gotten more?
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 2:05 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
Isaiah Thomas- Avery Bradley-Markelle Fultz-Jae Crowder-Nets pick-Ante Zizic

FOR

Kyrie Irving-Gordon Hayward-Jason Tatum-Marcus Morris-Lakers pick


Good upgrade, just feel like looking at the pieces going out... Celtics should've gotten more?


Fair point. I think most would agree that Boston overpaid for Irving but like everything else, it remains to be seen. But replacing Isaiah with a guy almost 4 years younger (and under contract at least one extra year) helps. Most important, Boston desperately needed a second reliable scorer and they got that. Either way, I'm 100% convinced Ainge believed there was a ceiling as to how far the Thomas-Bradley-Crowder Celtics could advance. They completely overhauled their roster and return only 4 players from a young, 53 win team. Crazy. We'll see if Irving turns out to be worth the cost but one thing's for sure; the Celtics are gonna be an interesting team to watch in a league that needs interesting teams to watch.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:44 am    Post subject:

USCandLakers wrote:
Ibn Rushd wrote:
70sdude wrote:
PG Kyrie Irving

SG Gordon Hayward

SF Jaylen Brown

PF Jayson Tatum

C Al Horford

With sixth man Marcus Smart, it's a pretty nice looking start to a rotation. They'll beat most teams handily, if all six stay reasonably healthy.


This team isn't going anywhere unless Brown and Tatum reach all-star potential. And Horford stays in great shape...

I think Ainge is not done. He knows he has to go all in for another superstar.


He doesn't need another superstar. They've got the offensive firepower, they've got their closer, it's going to be a matter of how well they gel on the defensive end.


I think that Boston took steps to obtain their first superstar (Irving) and perhaps the step necessary to also add a good enough number two man to make the next step (NBA Finals.) In my mind, a roster is never complete. It may not jell perfectly in year one, but on the other hand, if LeBron leaves the East, the Celtics look positioned to be the East's next big elephant. More draft picks in hand too.

I agree that the offense may work plenty well enough, and that the changes to their roster are less clear regarding defense. I'm a little jealous of where the Celtics stand today; our Lakers are comparatively just trying to identify a keeper or three.
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LakerLanny
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:22 am    Post subject:

Thomas was unreal for the Celtics, but Kyrie Irving is an upgrade and Hayward an interesting addition.

Completely different team now without Thomas, Crowder, Bradley, Olynyk, etc. so it will be interesting to see how the moves work out.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:16 am    Post subject:

LakerLanny wrote:
Thomas was unreal for the Celtics, but Kyrie Irving is an upgrade and Hayward an interesting addition.

Completely different team now without Thomas, Crowder, Bradley, Olynyk, etc. so it will be interesting to see how the moves work out.

They went from a blue collar defensive team to more of a white collar, high-end players team. We'll see how that fares (and I'm not convinced Irving or Hayward are superstars).
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