LBJ/Wilt Comparison When They Joined the Lakers
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Megaton
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:23 pm    Post subject:

Even without today's training, medicine, supplements inserted to him, 60s Wilt would still be consider one of if not THE most freakish NBA athlete ever. He would outrun any bigman on the fastbreak, pound the post especially to small ball Centers (good luck Draymond Green), and his reflexes on defense.

With today's equipment? Forget it, it would be a joke. Now imagine a young or prime Wilt running with Lonzo on the fast break.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:47 pm    Post subject:

Megaton wrote:
Even without today's training, medicine, supplements inserted to him, 60s Wilt would still be consider one of if not THE most freakish NBA athlete ever. He would outrun any bigman on the fastbreak, pound the post especially to small ball Centers (good luck Draymond Green), and his reflexes on defense.

With today's equipment? Forget it, it would be a joke. Now imagine a young or prime Wilt running with Lonzo on the fast break.

oh yea...if you dropped him into modern times, he would be incredible i think. I don't think his numbers would be so huge however, but he would most certainly be the best center in the league. also, his one weakness, free throws, might even be fixed with various techniques available today. what a specimen. remember, he was taller, stronger, and far more skilled than even shaq.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:38 pm    Post subject:

SuperboyReformed wrote:
oh yea...if you dropped him into modern times, he would be incredible i think. I don't think his numbers would be so huge however, but he would most certainly be the best center in the league. also, his one weakness, free throws, might even be fixed with various techniques available today. what a specimen. remember, he was taller, stronger, and far more skilled than even shaq.


taller, stronger? perhaps. but more skilled? its arguable. shaq aint no slouch being that big and agile in the post you definitely needs great footwork and skill
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:17 pm    Post subject:

SuperboyReformed wrote:
Megaton wrote:
Even without today's training, medicine, supplements inserted to him, 60s Wilt would still be consider one of if not THE most freakish NBA athlete ever. He would outrun any bigman on the fastbreak, pound the post especially to small ball Centers (good luck Draymond Green), and his reflexes on defense.

With today's equipment? Forget it, it would be a joke. Now imagine a young or prime Wilt running with Lonzo on the fast break.

oh yea...if you dropped him into modern times, he would be incredible i think. I don't think his numbers would be so huge however, but he would most certainly be the best center in the league. also, his one weakness, free throws, might even be fixed with various techniques available today. what a specimen. remember, he was taller, stronger, and far more skilled than even shaq.


The thing with Wilt's free throws is that he did not give a single (bleep). Go look up wilt chamberlain free throws and watch the first link or so. He would either chuck them like he was throwing garbage away or do a poor attempt at a grandma free throw.

Free throws are much more valued today, or at least, people criticize players' bad throw shooting more harshly today so I wouldn't doubt Wilt being a better free throw shooter because he would actually try.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:16 am    Post subject:

ratra_1211 wrote:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
oh yea...if you dropped him into modern times, he would be incredible i think. I don't think his numbers would be so huge however, but he would most certainly be the best center in the league. also, his one weakness, free throws, might even be fixed with various techniques available today. what a specimen. remember, he was taller, stronger, and far more skilled than even shaq.


taller, stronger? perhaps. but more skilled? its arguable. shaq aint no slouch being that big and agile in the post you definitely needs great footwork and skill

FAR more skilled. i never said shaq is bad or anything, but wilt is on another level. he was a legit globetrotter initially. he'd shoot turnaround fadeaways in his day. Shaq himself admitted he can't do those things which is why he focused on his power and bully game.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:50 pm    Post subject:

P.K. wrote:
kevin61 wrote:
Wilt was a super human athlete, but he played in a different era. It's impossible to say how he'd rank against the centers of the last 40 years, other than to say, he'd be in the discussion for the very best.

Wilt was also a track athlete

"At Overbrook High School in Philly, he high jumped 6 feet, 6 inches, ran the 440 in 49.0 seconds and the 880 in 1:58.3, put the shot 53 feet, 4 inches, broad jumped 22 feet."

Can you think of any 7 footers that can do that?

He was truly amazing.

http://m.kusports.com/users/photos/2013/mar/08/250827/?templates=mobile

It's worth noting that Wilt's high school track career was in the early 1950's. Before the advent of the Fosbury Flop high jump technique that Dick Fosbury made famous in the 1968 0lympics. I was in grade school at the time, and we had guys trying to replicate the Flop during our PE classes track & field. The Fosbury Flop is pretty much the technique used today where the athlete jumps with his/her back towards the bar.
In Wilt's era there was a "No Diving" over the bar rule in high jumping - and the techniques used in that era were the scissors jump or a variation of a hurdle jump where your front leg went over the bar first. So, Wilt was essentially hurdling 6'6".

I mention this for the younger group that might look at 6'6" and think that's pretty low considering today's college record is 7' 9.75"

If the Fosbury Flop had existed (and been permitted) in Wilts era, you'd probably have seen that Wilt's record would be a lot higher considering his jumping ability and overall agility.


The world record for the straddle technique (the technique used by Wilt) is 7 ft 8.5 inches. I've seen a 5'9 man scissor kick 6'10.75 inches.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:20 pm    Post subject:

LBJ is a pass first kinda guy. I can see him accepting a lesser role as he ages and helping the guys around him look good.

I love Kobe but watching him chuck 10+ 3PFG a game was disheartening.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:54 am    Post subject:

Hammett wrote:
LBJ is a pass first kinda guy. I can see him accepting a lesser role as he ages and helping the guys around him look good.

I love Kobe but watching him chuck 10+ 3PFG a game was disheartening.


It's hard for a star player in any sport to rachet down their game. Lebron's game is more adaptable than Kobe's, in that he can shift to playing a hybrid PF role. However, I find it hard to imagine him accepting a role in which he is not the centerpiece of the team. There have been big men who have done that, from Wilt to Snaq (who whined about it, of course). Offhand, I can't think of a perimeter player who did it unless injuries compelled it. Maybe Ray Allen, but even in his prime he wasn't really an alpha type.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:00 pm    Post subject:

LakerLanny wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
governator wrote:
P.K. wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
I've heard some old Laker fans say they would go to the games and count his blocks at 20 (no such stat in his time).

I'm old enough to have watched Wilt - although only on TV
Wilt would often get 2 (or sometimes 3) blocks on the same possession. It happened so frequently that it was almost commonplace.


waas it just Wilt or common occurances with other centers and Wilt was just the best on?


Russell was a great shot blocker too. Wilt was a great athlete and a track star. My favorite Wilt story is when the media gave him a hard time for scoring so much. He came out the next season and led the league in assists.


He averaged 50 for a season and scored 100 in a game.

He was so much better than the guys he was playing against that I think it would be fair to argue he didn't max his athletic advantage.

Yet average 50 in a season and then lead the league in assists in another season as mentioned above.

With today's training and the right situation? The Big Dipper was for real, I know that.

All that said, I still don't have him as #1 of All Time.

If you break it down by best Center, best Forward, best Guard of all time...then it becomes a lot more interesting to me because it is hard to compare say Wilt to Jordan just based on their positions. Like Kobe to Kareem, who is better? Hard to say as they played completely different positions.
I've always had Wilt as best ever, besides his 100 PT game and 50+ PPG and most assists at Center all totally untouchable records (especially the latter two) he had a 55 Rebound game all-time record (that most teams cannot accomplish in a game) that will not be touched and possibly the most amazing of all is the year he averaged OVER 48 MPG (more minutes than there is in a regular game) --- that year he must have played very close to every minute of every game and to top that off Wilt NEVER fouled out in a game in his entire career.

The stuff he did and the stats he put up totally eclipse any other player in the game in many departments on both-sides of the ball. He would have had many more untouchable records in blocked-shots if they tabulated those stats over his entire career. I frankly cannot comprehend putting anyone above Wilt but then that's just me.

I've always considered Wilt the Babe Ruth of basketball. Ruth had multiple 20+ game seasons as a pitcher yet he held incredible stats behind the plate many of which are still unbreakable as we all know not only in Home runs, slugging average but think about the fact he averaged for his career .342 ..... and on top of all that he was an amazing fielder as well. Same thing with Wilt (just like the Babe), he could do it ALL!!! All you have to do is look at all the records that Wilt STILL OWNS to this day and you must realize he's the BEST of all time!! I will never forget that 100 point game. (I didn't bother to take the time to look up any stats as these are what I recall off-the-top-of-my-head).
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:14 pm    Post subject:

kevin61 wrote:
Wilt was a super human athlete, but he played in a different era. It's impossible to say how he'd rank against the centers of the last 40 years, other than to say, he'd be in the discussion for the very best.

Wilt was also a track athlete

"At Overbrook High School in Philly, he high jumped 6 feet, 6 inches, ran the 440 in 49.0 seconds and the 880 in 1:58.3, put the shot 53 feet, 4 inches, broad jumped 22 feet."

Can you think of any 7 footers that can do that?

He was truly amazing.

http://m.kusports.com/users/photos/2013/mar/08/250827/?templates=mobile
BINGO, I would have posted the same thing but you already covered it. Flat out an incredible all-around athlete and considering his size a one-of-a-kind all-around athlete. He was so dominate and held so many records in Basketball that I think his sheer dominance perhaps caused him to be complacent at times as there was no one for him to set goals toward as he represented all the records of his time many of which still stand today over 50 years later.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:39 pm    Post subject:

SuperboyReformed wrote:
Dr. Funkbot wrote:
I read that he had a 48 inch vert- for a 7 footer, insane.

he did not have a 48" vertical (I'm assuming standing vertical). Neither did MJ. These are ridiculous myths.
At the very least debatable, which I don't think can be said for anyone else....

Just a few of many videos:
Wilt Chamberlain's one-step vertical-reach revealed in Photographers Light
Wilt Chamberlain blocks shots nearly 13 feet up: IMPOSSIBLE 7-footer leaping ability
Face Book - *RARE FOOTAGE* Wilt Chamberlain's INSANE vertical and HIGHEST REACH EVER!
Facebook video (in case you do not have FB)
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:53 pm    Post subject:

Wilt would dominate today if he was in this era. Think about this...Kareem played against Wilt and Although Kareem was on the way up and Wilt was on the way down, Wilt still had big games. An aging Kareem played against a young, but already dominant Hakeem and had huge games against Olajuwon. Again, same scenario. Then an older Hakeem played against a young, but already dominant Shaq and again, Hakeem had some monstrous games in his own right. Shaq hasn't been retired for too long, but nobody thinks a young Shaq wouldn't dominate today. It's amazing that those centers played long enough to have all of those generations intersect. But transitive property tells me that in this case, all of those players skill sets and physical abilities would 100% translate to today.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:30 am    Post subject:

Bumping this thread.

I see a lot of similarities b/w LBJ/Wilt at this juncture when they joined the Lakers.

Wilt played 5 years on the Lakers, age 32-36, which is where LBJ would be around on the Lakers.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:32 am    Post subject: Re: Wilt Chamberlain (Lakers Days, Age 32-36)

I can't believe I made this thread about a year ago. But the similarities are pretty crazy. Of course LBJ isn't playing 46mpg but I do think he can continue being a top player.

yinoma2001 wrote:
He joined the Lakers at the ripe age of 32 (after nearly 9 years with other teams). He averaged close to 46-47mpg during that time period. He played 5 more seasons with the Lakers until age 36. During that time, he accumulated some still-monster stats:

19.3ppg
19 rpg
44mpg

He was injured in 69-70 and only played 12 games, but the other 4 seasons: 81, 82, 82, and 82 games.

Basketball Reference unfortunately did not have the elusive WBPN stat (Women Bedded Per Night), but that probably increased when he joined the Lakers.

This brings an interesting parallel IMO to LBJ and the Lakers. I can see him being one of the few players to maintain a still-elite level from age 33-35 (years he would likely be under contract with the Lakers). With modern training and advanced science, he can stay healthier longer. Plus, he would theoretically have another max players and a core of younger players who can help carry the load.

Was just fascinating when i took a minute to look at what Wilt achieved at his later age. The sheer minutes per game and number of games played, while still putting up some crazy numbers is amazing even today.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:34 am    Post subject:

From what I know, it's definitely an interesting parallel and IMO it makes Lebron choosing LA more palatable.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:36 am    Post subject:

If only Wilt was in Conan the Destroyer while he played like LeBron will be in Space Jam 2.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:39 am    Post subject:

PHILosophize wrote:
From what I know, it's definitely an interesting parallel and IMO it makes Lebron choosing LA more palatable.


The one player I wish I could go in time to see play in person is Wilt.

I know a few folks who watched him play in person, and they said it was quite the spectacular show that I imagine it being.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:40 am    Post subject:

PHILosophize wrote:
From what I know, it's definitely an interesting parallel and IMO it makes Lebron choosing LA more palatable.


For a lot of the reasons Wilt came to LA, I see LBJ. Though, less so about the family part. He was probably up to 10,000 by the time he hit LA.

But Basketball Reference doesn't have THOSE stats.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:45 am    Post subject:

Would love to hear from LGers who saw Wilt live in person. I presume you also saw KAJ and Shaq too. How was the Wilt experience comparatively speaking?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:27 am    Post subject:

Saw Wilt walking into stands at Mt Sac relays, after his nba career was over, the guy still looked like a athlete.

Shaq weight increased in his 30's affecting his game more then fans realize.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:27 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Would love to hear from LGers who saw Wilt live in person. I presume you also saw KAJ and Shaq too. How was the Wilt experience comparatively speaking?


C'mon bro. They don't own computers.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:36 am    Post subject:

epak wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Would love to hear from LGers who saw Wilt live in person. I presume you also saw KAJ and Shaq too. How was the Wilt experience comparatively speaking?


C'mon bro. They don't own computers.


VLF?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:48 am    Post subject:

Druggas wrote:
The reason Wilt has dropped from the GOAT discussion is because all the writers from his era are dead. The new media guys, have never seen him play. Not counting ESPN who thinks the NBA started when MJ played.
Very good point!
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:56 am    Post subject:

I saw Wilt and Russell play over the course of much of each man's career. I think Wilt's reputation as a selfish player who was too focused on personal stat lines was formed by the media of the time.

To me, the burden of domination of Wilt's teams playoff-time by Boston (as a Warrior, a Sixer) and the NY Knicks (as a Laker) was unfairly placed on Wilt. To me, the differential in championship hardware is accounted for more greatly by two things: Wilt continually was facing better complementary talent and was more often than not being led himself by comparatively poorer coaching. Only under Hannum (for four seasons, two each in SF and Phi) and Sharman (for two seasonsin LA) was a coach able to convince Wilt to truly subvert his own ego so as to maximize what his team mates could do.

Wilt as a Laker fought with Elgin Baylor for control of the Laker team's style and role; that fault was both Wilt's and his coaches (van Breda Kolff, Mullaney.) Wilt would not submit to Baylor's influence or desires. That was sad.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:57 am    Post subject:

Wilkes52 wrote:
I saw Wilt and Russell play over the course of much of each man's career. I think Wilt's reputation as a selfish player who was too focused on personal stat lines was formed by the media of the time.

To me, the burden of domination of Wilt's teams playoff-time by Boston (as a Warrior, a Sixer) and the NY Knicks (as a Laker) was unfairly placed on Wilt. To me, the differential in championship hardware is accounted for more greatly by two things: Wilt continually was facing better complementary talent and was more often than not being led himself by comparatively poorer coaching. Only under Hannum (for four seasons, two each in SF and Phi) and Sharman (for two seasonsin LA) was a coach able to convince Wilt to truly subvert his own ego so as to maximize what his team mates could do.

Wilt as a Laker fought with Elgin Baylor for control of the Laker team's style and role; that fault was both Wilt's and his coaches (van Breda Kolff, Mullaney.) Wilt would not submit to Baylor's influence or desires. That was sad.


Interesting point re: the bolded. LBJ is trying to make the same argument, though I think he had a hand in the current construction of the terrible Cavs. He's got to be less hands LeGM wise.
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