Reasons why we might exceed expectations
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kevin61
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:55 pm    Post subject:

I think the team wins 40 plus, if they don't win close to that I'll be disappointed. Free Agents aren't going to want to come to the Lakers unless they play well and show a lot of promise. I'll keep saying it, Lonzo is the key.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:59 pm    Post subject:

kevin61 wrote:
I think the team wins 40 plus, if they don't win close to that I'll be disappointed. Free Agents aren't going to want to come to the Lakers unless they play well and show a lot of promise. I'll keep saying it, Lonzo is the key.


I agree.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:02 pm    Post subject:

kevin61 wrote:
lakersboy wrote:
Kuzma plays important minutes and is highly effective on both ends of the court at the 3 and 4.

We find out that "transcendent" is closer to incomparable than average.

Hart gets pt, impresses on D, and fits in on offense.

The offense plays faster than defenses can keep up with.

The key acquisitions, chemistry, and team speed leads to better overall defense than people realize.

Julius and/or Ingram play a lot better than they did last year.

Clarkson's work on his left hand and shot proves tailor made for Ball.

The shooters on the team shoot better han expected and make Lonzo's life easy.

More than one of the above prove true.


I agree with your points, maybe not in that order. I think it's 50% how well Lonzo plays and 50% how much the rest of team improves.

I actually believe multiple points above will be true, not all. I have no doubt Lonzo will play better than he did last year, just like he's doing on Spectrum Sportsnet as a JR, Sr., and in SPL games.

People are saying defense has to greatly improve for this team to do well. That's not what we saw when he transformed UCLA. I don't expect a perfect player but I expect a difference maker in a combination ways we haven't seen, even a bit different from Magic because of the athleticism.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:06 pm    Post subject:

kevin61 wrote:
I think the team wins 40 plus, if they don't win close to that I'll be disappointed. Free Agents aren't going to want to come to the Lakers unless they play well and show a lot of promise. I'll keep saying it, Lonzo is the key.


It will be interesting to see what happens. The expectations for Lonzo are sky high right now. If he has any kind of growing pains at all, I think we are going to have to put LG on suicide watch.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:54 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
kevin61 wrote:
I think the team wins 40 plus, if they don't win close to that I'll be disappointed. Free Agents aren't going to want to come to the Lakers unless they play well and show a lot of promise. I'll keep saying it, Lonzo is the key.


It will be interesting to see what happens. The expectations for Lonzo are sky high right now. If he has any kind of growing pains at all, I think we are going to have to put LG on suicide watch.


I hope LGers are a bit savvier about rookie season expectations than you give credit for. We should anticipate seeing him suffer growing pains to some extent.

I am realistically cautious about transferring the super shiny glow of his instant impact on a previously stagnant offense at UCLA to here in Lakerland. He's not joining a club which shows much near-term promise to shoot the ball real well and that's a big difference. Patience, my friends. I'm figuring that improvements come in fits and starts this year; it'll be OK that way too.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:01 pm    Post subject:

Wilkes52 wrote:
activeverb wrote:
kevin61 wrote:
I think the team wins 40 plus, if they don't win close to that I'll be disappointed. Free Agents aren't going to want to come to the Lakers unless they play well and show a lot of promise. I'll keep saying it, Lonzo is the key.


It will be interesting to see what happens. The expectations for Lonzo are sky high right now. If he has any kind of growing pains at all, I think we are going to have to put LG on suicide watch.


I hope LGers are a bit savvier about rookie season expectations than you give credit for. We should anticipate seeing him suffer growing pains to some extent.

I am realistically cautious about transferring the super shiny glow of his instant impact on a previously stagnant offense at UCLA to here in Lakerland. He's not joining a club which shows much near-term promise to shoot the ball real well and that's a big difference. Patience, my friends. I'm figuring that improvements come in fits and starts this year; it'll be OK that way too.


I don't think I'm expecting too much at all. What I'm hoping for is that Lonzo shows in stretches, what he showed in the Summer League. There's a certain IT that's hard to define, but easy to see. I'll know within 20 games if he has it and so will the rest of the NBA.
The team's future is on his shoulders, I think he can carry it, but I expect growing pains.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:53 pm    Post subject:

1 Lonzo will determine free agents coming here. Good or bad
2 our projected starting 5 is much better than last year for various reasons
3 we have no insentive to tank.
4 the west is better but the east is terrible
5 10 more wins than last season at worst
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:44 am    Post subject:

1. Fans unrealistic optimism
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:22 am    Post subject:

kevin61 wrote:
I think the team wins 40 plus, if they don't win close to that I'll be disappointed. Free Agents aren't going to want to come to the Lakers unless they play well and show a lot of promise. I'll keep saying it, Lonzo is the key.


I think they should flirt with that number. I've been told not to think that large, but enthusiasm, positive attitude, conditioning, group commitment, old fashioned hustle, self-critique, and maybe even group critique, if they're willing to listen to others, are things that lend to overachievement in sport. We've all seen teams like this in many sports. They're almost an archetype. This group is supposed to be in that mindset. They've bought in. This could be a year that surprises even the most nervous. The rest is their execution and the gameplan. That's obviously huge, too, but this isn't an old, experienced triangle team that can somehow win on their wits. This is a young team where the intangibles mentioned above frankly should be there if the org knows what they're doin, and things they can do in lieu of the veteran Ron Harperlike savvy in order to COMPETE (if not win) more than projected. They can be in the fight more often than not. Not rocket science. The more close games you're in, the more you'll win.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 3:38 am    Post subject:

lewis wrote:
1. Fans unrealistic optimism


Ball was summer league MVP, Kuzma summer league finals MVP and has the skillset of the prototype modern PF. If they can stay in the all rookie first team conversation through the season it is a HUGE upgrade over our young guns performance in recent history.

Lopez is our best Center since Pau Gasol and it is not even close.

Ingram finished last season with strong averages/36 I expect a contributor this season.

We just have Clarkson and Randle remaining from the core of players allergic to play defense. Magic shipped 3 away and I believe he is going to move one or both at the trade deadline if the opportunity raises.

Playing some defense alone can help us a lot, we had a better net rating last season playing scrubs like Ennis and Nwaba than we had with talented guards without the will to play defense.

I'm optimistic and I'm usually pretty realistic. Most mates thought I was harsh on the players we had last couple of seasons while our record showed at the end of the season that I was as soft as they were on the floor.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:04 am    Post subject:

nash wrote:
lewis wrote:
1. Fans unrealistic optimism


Ball was summer league MVP, Kuzma summer league finals MVP and has the skillset of the prototype modern PF. If they can stay in the all rookie first team conversation through the season it is a HUGE upgrade over our young guns performance in recent history.

Lopez is our best Center since Pau Gasol and it is not even close.

Ingram finished last season with strong averages/36 I expect a contributor this season.

We just have Clarkson and Randle remaining from the core of players allergic to play defense. Magic shipped 3 away and I believe he is going to move one or both at the trade deadline if the opportunity raises.

Playing some defense alone can help us a lot, we had a better net rating last season playing scrubs like Ennis and Nwaba than we had with talented guards without the will to play defense.

I'm optimistic and I'm usually pretty realistic. Most mates thought I was harsh on the players we had last couple of seasons while our record showed at the end of the season that I was as soft as they were on the floor.

You're as obsessed with Russell in a negative way as Dave20 was with Clarkson in a positive way. You do realize it's more than possible to address anything basketball related without constantly taking these subliminal shots at Russell, right? Seems like it really doesn't matter what the discussion is centered around or in what thread. You'll always find a way to slip in some random sneak diss aimed at Russell.

Person A: Kawhi really has some huge hands. It's unreal.

nash: He does have huge hands but what makes Kwahi such a great player is his work ethic skills. He may not have been a top two pick in his draft, but this fan base has seen players in recent years who were taken in the top two of the draft who had a lot of hype but no work ethic. That's why they got traded.

Person B: Per Woj, Lonzo is signing with Nike for an 800 billion dollar contract.

nash: Ball is a very marketable young player. Nike saw something special in him. They know that he doesn't just have all the hype from being the number two pick. All of his teammates like him. I'm not allowed to talk about the player, but we've seen other draft picks in the passed who lacked professionalism and divided their own locker room by making camera videos on the tweeter. Ball will never do that. He also has very good work ethic skills.

Person C: How did the refs miss that call? It was so obvious that Harden double dribbled.

nash: Harden is a good player. He doesn't have that much ath-a-lettuce-ism but he has good work ethic skills. I'm not allowed to talk about the players but there have been young players in the passed who were compared with Harden because they knew how to past and weren't ath-a-lettuce. But what's really impressive is that Harden has good work ethic skills.



For crying out loud, just get off it already.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:54 am    Post subject:

Judah wrote:
nash wrote:
lewis wrote:
1. Fans unrealistic optimism


Ball was summer league MVP, Kuzma summer league finals MVP and has the skillset of the prototype modern PF. If they can stay in the all rookie first team conversation through the season it is a HUGE upgrade over our young guns performance in recent history.

Lopez is our best Center since Pau Gasol and it is not even close.

Ingram finished last season with strong averages/36 I expect a contributor this season.

We just have Clarkson and Randle remaining from the core of players allergic to play defense. Magic shipped 3 away and I believe he is going to move one or both at the trade deadline if the opportunity raises.

Playing some defense alone can help us a lot, we had a better net rating last season playing scrubs like Ennis and Nwaba than we had with talented guards without the will to play defense.

I'm optimistic and I'm usually pretty realistic. Most mates thought I was harsh on the players we had last couple of seasons while our record showed at the end of the season that I was as soft as they were on the floor.

You're as obsessed with Russell in a negative way as Dave20 was with Clarkson in a positive way. You do realize it's more than possible to address anything basketball related without constantly taking these subliminal shots at Russell, right? Seems like it really doesn't matter what the discussion is centered around or in what thread. You'll always find a way to slip in some random sneak diss aimed at Russell.

Person A: Kawhi really has some huge hands. It's unreal.

nash: He does have huge hands but what makes Kwahi such a great player is his work ethic skills. He may not have been a top two pick in his draft, but this fan base has seen players in recent years who were taken in the top two of the draft who had a lot of hype but no work ethic. That's why they got traded.

Person B: Per Woj, Lonzo is signing with Nike for an 800 billion dollar contract.

nash: Ball is a very marketable young player. Nike saw something special in him. They know that he doesn't just have all the hype from being the number two pick. All of his teammates like him. I'm not allowed to talk about the player, but we've seen other draft picks in the passed who lacked professionalism and divided their own locker room by making camera videos on the tweeter. Ball will never do that. He also has very good work ethic skills.

Person C: How did the refs miss that call? It was so obvious that Harden double dribbled.

nash: Harden is a good player. He doesn't have that much ath-a-lettuce-ism but he has good work ethic skills. I'm not allowed to talk about the players but there have been young players in the passed who were compared with Harden because they knew how to past and weren't ath-a-lettuce. But what's really impressive is that Harden has good work ethic skills.



For crying out loud, just get off it already.


Look man, I was telling we had 7 players among the 10 worst defenders of their positions.

Ingram and Zubac were rookies and I was giving them a pass.

There are 5 players remaining, 4 guards and 1 PF, it seems like I'm not the person singling out one player

By the way while I believe Ball is not just a legit PG, but can be a generational talent at this position, I don't think he is going to be a defensive juggernaut next season, as a rookie I believe he is going to struggle guarding his man compensating it a bit with a good team defense.

Move on bro, there is no reason to bring divergences from the worst two years of our history.

I don't really care about former players without any winning history here, Clarkson and Randle have to prove they can play defense and the same should be asked from Ingram and Zubac this season since they are not rookies anymore.


Last edited by nash on Fri Sep 01, 2017 7:01 am; edited 4 times in total
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:56 am    Post subject:

Lonzo
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:07 am    Post subject:

markjay wrote:
70sdude wrote:
Given the fairly wide dispersion of LG fan projections for 2017-2018 (those predictions ranging from 32 wins through 46 wins, covering roughly 85% of the members), it seems that "exceeding expectations" is kinda a blurred concept. For me, exceeding expectations is already something baked into the meal for at least half of the members here already.


It says "exceed expectations", not "exceed OUR expectations".

ESPN projects the Lakers to win 33 games. I think those expectations will be exceeded!


In that narrow construct, sure, but most Laker fans I know couldn't care less about click-bait ESPN's projections. Even with that set aside, let's recognize that people form their own opinions about the team and here is the forum to discuss that, the basis for those expectations. There's no denying that there exists wide-ranging and legitimate opinion for the level of success expected in the upcoming Laker season.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:14 am    Post subject:

70sdude wrote:
markjay wrote:
70sdude wrote:
Given the fairly wide dispersion of LG fan projections for 2017-2018 (those predictions ranging from 32 wins through 46 wins, covering roughly 85% of the members), it seems that "exceeding expectations" is kinda a blurred concept. For me, exceeding expectations is already something baked into the meal for at least half of the members here already.


It says "exceed expectations", not "exceed OUR expectations".

ESPN projects the Lakers to win 33 games. I think those expectations will be exceeded!


In that narrow construct, sure, but most Laker fans I know couldn't care less about click-bait ESPN's projections. Even with that set aside, let's recognize that people form their own opinions about the team and here is the forum to discuss that, the basis for those expectations. There's no denying that there exists wide-ranging and legitimate opinion for the level of success expected in the upcoming Laker season.


ESPN has been consistent with their predictions
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:19 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
70sdude wrote:
markjay wrote:
70sdude wrote:
Given the fairly wide dispersion of LG fan projections for 2017-2018 (those predictions ranging from 32 wins through 46 wins, covering roughly 85% of the members), it seems that "exceeding expectations" is kinda a blurred concept. For me, exceeding expectations is already something baked into the meal for at least half of the members here already.


It says "exceed expectations", not "exceed OUR expectations".

ESPN projects the Lakers to win 33 games. I think those expectations will be exceeded!


In that narrow construct, sure, but most Laker fans I know couldn't care less about click-bait ESPN's projections. Even with that set aside, let's recognize that people form their own opinions about the team and here is the forum to discuss that, the basis for those expectations. There's no denying that there exists wide-ranging and legitimate opinion for the level of success expected in the upcoming Laker season.


ESPN has been consistent with their predictions


They have also been lucky
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:21 am    Post subject:

Wilkes52 wrote:
activeverb wrote:
kevin61 wrote:
I think the team wins 40 plus, if they don't win close to that I'll be disappointed. Free Agents aren't going to want to come to the Lakers unless they play well and show a lot of promise. I'll keep saying it, Lonzo is the key.


It will be interesting to see what happens. The expectations for Lonzo are sky high right now. If he has any kind of growing pains at all, I think we are going to have to put LG on suicide watch.


I hope LGers are a bit savvier about rookie season expectations than you give credit for. We should anticipate seeing him suffer growing pains to some extent.

I am realistically cautious about transferring the super shiny glow of his instant impact on a previously stagnant offense at UCLA to here in Lakerland. He's not joining a club which shows much near-term promise to shoot the ball real well and that's a big difference. Patience, my friends. I'm figuring that improvements come in fits and starts this year; it'll be OK that way too.
even though this is true. he will still get guys EASIER buckets than they had last year. that means FG%'s should rise a bit. and some guys that did a lot of dribbling dont have to this season. which conserves energy on one end. then you can use that energy on the other. Randle anyone???
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:21 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
70sdude wrote:
markjay wrote:
70sdude wrote:
Given the fairly wide dispersion of LG fan projections for 2017-2018 (those predictions ranging from 32 wins through 46 wins, covering roughly 85% of the members), it seems that "exceeding expectations" is kinda a blurred concept. For me, exceeding expectations is already something baked into the meal for at least half of the members here already.


It says "exceed expectations", not "exceed OUR expectations".

ESPN projects the Lakers to win 33 games. I think those expectations will be exceeded!


In that narrow construct, sure, but most Laker fans I know couldn't care less about click-bait ESPN's projections. Even with that set aside, let's recognize that people form their own opinions about the team and here is the forum to discuss that, the basis for those expectations. There's no denying that there exists wide-ranging and legitimate opinion for the level of success expected in the upcoming Laker season.


ESPN has been consistent with their predictions


That is true, but since I'm feeling optimistic this year I'd say 35 is a good number.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:28 am    Post subject:

I predicted 36, but I am usually too optimistic
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:51 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
I predicted 36, but I am usually too optimistic


I know summer league is summer league, but damn it:

Summer League PER of our rookies last few seasons:
Ingram 16.7
Clarkson 15.1
Randle 12.5
Russell 7.1
Nance 5.3

This season:
Kuzma 24.9
Lonzo 22.8
Bryant 19.3
Hart 9.7

You put a summer league trophy and a couple of MVP nominations on the top of that and you have an optimistic Nash again.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:14 am    Post subject:

nash wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
I predicted 36, but I am usually too optimistic


I know summer league is summer league, but damn it:

Summer League PER of our rookies last few seasons:
Ingram 16.7
Clarkson 15.1
Randle 12.5
Russell 7.1
Nance 5.3

This season:
Kuzma 24.9
Lonzo 22.8
Bryant 19.3
Hart 9.7

You put a summer league trophy and a couple of MVP nominations on the top of that and you have an optimistic Nash again.


Summer League is over.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:10 pm    Post subject:

There's going to be so many sad Laker fans this year. I mean, 40 wins? Lmao
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:33 pm    Post subject:

BynumForThree wrote:
There's going to be so many sad Laker fans this year. I mean, 40 wins? Lmao


Really? 40 wins is so outrageous that it commands a LMAO? Please come down from your cynical perch and enjoy our view.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:34 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
I predicted 36, but I am usually too optimistic


Personally I'm not predicting 40, but I'm hopeful for it.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:20 pm    Post subject:

BynumForThree wrote:
There's going to be so many sad Laker fans this year. I mean, 40 wins? Lmao


Wow, so fans can't have optimism when we are in the best situation since 2012 and you call fans sad for being optimistic..

That's a Debbie downer if I have ever seen 1.
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