Brandon Ingram looking like a problem waiting to happen!
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GoldenThroat
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:42 pm    Post subject:

socalsp3 wrote:
You still need elite iso player in today's game when the offense breaks down. GSW has 3. Cavs had 2. Lakers have BI and maybe BLO.


Ingram is an elite iso player? And it's Lopez who's the maybe? Today?
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:49 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
socalsp3 wrote:
You still need elite iso player in today's game when the offense breaks down. GSW has 3. Cavs had 2. Lakers have BI and maybe BLO.


Ingram is an elite iso player? And it's Lopez who's the maybe? Today?


It's a magical time to be a Lakers fan.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:58 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
socalsp3 wrote:
You still need elite iso player in today's game when the offense breaks down. GSW has 3. Cavs had 2. Lakers have BI and maybe BLO.


Ingram is an elite iso player? And it's Lopez who's the maybe? Today?


Yes based on One SL game and one play on instagram
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:58 pm    Post subject:

OregonLakerGuy wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
socalsp3 wrote:
You still need elite iso player in today's game when the offense breaks down. GSW has 3. Cavs had 2. Lakers have BI and maybe BLO.


Ingram is an elite iso player? And it's Lopez who's the maybe? Today?


It's a magical time to be a Lakers fan.


I mean we don't even need Lebron or Pg13!!!
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epak
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:00 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
OregonLakerGuy wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
socalsp3 wrote:
You still need elite iso player in today's game when the offense breaks down. GSW has 3. Cavs had 2. Lakers have BI and maybe BLO.


Ingram is an elite iso player? And it's Lopez who's the maybe? Today?


It's a magical time to be a Lakers fan.


I mean we don't even need Lebron or Pg13!!!


Yep. We need LeBron AND PG13
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Hydro21
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:39 am    Post subject:

BI gonna be special he gonna quiet a lot critics this year ..can't wait for the season start .
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:24 am    Post subject:

gonna cause some real problems for the rest of the association
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:32 am    Post subject:

He broke off KCP too.
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nash
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:39 am    Post subject:

The Lebrons wrote:
Between his one summer league game and this one play, he's holding the ball too long IMO.


First rule of basketball:

- You shouldn't hold the ball too long

Second rule of basketball:
- The rule above is not applied if you finish the play posterizing someone

Dunks baby, dunks

It is not WNBA
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justsomelakerfan
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:23 pm    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
He protec

He ISO

He attak


idek what this meme is from but here I am. Dunk was thunderous


he protec

but he also attac
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:26 pm    Post subject:

justsomelakerfan wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
He protec

He ISO

He attak


idek what this meme is from but here I am. Dunk was thunderous


he protec

but he also attac


I do love how Ingram always offers comfort to those he dunks on by gently placing his hand on their shoulder.
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Andre2K
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:57 pm    Post subject:

hope he gets to hold the ball too long next season if he's gonna be dunking on folks like that after taking only one dribble from the high post. We need more of that!
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:02 am    Post subject:

If Brandon doesn't average 15 to 16 pts this year I will be extremely disappointed.
If he can average 16/6/3, I think he will be a star.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:30 am    Post subject:

socalsp3 wrote:
You still need elite iso player in today's game when the offense breaks down. GSW has 3. Cavs had 2. Lakers have BI and maybe BLO.


ISO Scoring:

Durant - 89th percentile
Curry - 93rd percentile
Thompson - 94th percentile
James - 76th percentile
Irving - 94th percentile
Ingram - 42nd percentile
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:43 am    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
socalsp3 wrote:
You still need elite iso player in today's game when the offense breaks down. GSW has 3. Cavs had 2. Lakers have BI and maybe BLO.


ISO Scoring:

Durant - 89th percentile
Curry - 93rd percentile
Thompson - 94th percentile
James - 76th percentile
Irving - 94th percentile
Ingram - 42nd percentile


Oh we don't need that scrub Lebron. Only 74%. Pssshhh.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:06 am    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
socalsp3 wrote:
You still need elite iso player in today's game when the offense breaks down. GSW has 3. Cavs had 2. Lakers have BI and maybe BLO.


ISO Scoring:

Durant - 89th percentile
Curry - 93rd percentile
Thompson - 94th percentile
James - 76th percentile
Irving - 94th percentile
Ingram - 42nd percentile


Thats based on his rookie year when he wasn't physically ready yet. I think he will be elite this year with a year of growing and a year in the weight room.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:22 am    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
socalsp3 wrote:
You still need elite iso player in today's game when the offense breaks down. GSW has 3. Cavs had 2. Lakers have BI and maybe BLO.


ISO Scoring:

Durant - 89th percentile
Curry - 93rd percentile
Thompson - 94th percentile
James - 76th percentile
Irving - 94th percentile
Ingram - 42nd percentile


You are going to be surprised by his numbers after the all star break, he finished the season really strong and that is why I don't like to talk about "Ingram rookie season" because his performance in 2016 was a major struggle, but he kept getting better every month of this year, in 2017 he has improved steadily with solid advanced stats and per 36 numbers in april increasing it in his lone summer league game.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:27 am    Post subject:

nash wrote:
ocho wrote:
socalsp3 wrote:
You still need elite iso player in today's game when the offense breaks down. GSW has 3. Cavs had 2. Lakers have BI and maybe BLO.


ISO Scoring:

Durant - 89th percentile
Curry - 93rd percentile
Thompson - 94th percentile
James - 76th percentile
Irving - 94th percentile
Ingram - 42nd percentile


You are going to be surprised by his numbers after the all star break, he finished the season really strong and that is why I don't like to talk about "Ingram rookie season" because his performance in 2016 was a major struggle, but he kept getting better every month of this year, in 2017 he has improved steadily with solid advanced stats and per 36 numbers in april increasing it in his lone summer league game.


what percentile was BI after AS break?
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:42 am    Post subject:

nash wrote:
ocho wrote:
socalsp3 wrote:
You still need elite iso player in today's game when the offense breaks down. GSW has 3. Cavs had 2. Lakers have BI and maybe BLO.


ISO Scoring:

Durant - 89th percentile
Curry - 93rd percentile
Thompson - 94th percentile
James - 76th percentile
Irving - 94th percentile
Ingram - 42nd percentile


You are going to be surprised by his numbers after the all star break, he finished the season really strong and that is why I don't like to talk about "Ingram rookie season" because his performance in 2016 was a major struggle, but he kept getting better every month of this year, in 2017 he has improved steadily with solid advanced stats and per 36 numbers in april increasing it in his lone summer league game.


I've noticed a lot of people don't like to talk about Ingram's rookie season

I am sure he will be better this season but referring to him as an elite ISO player is factually incorrect and extremely premature.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:59 am    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
nash wrote:
ocho wrote:
socalsp3 wrote:
You still need elite iso player in today's game when the offense breaks down. GSW has 3. Cavs had 2. Lakers have BI and maybe BLO.


ISO Scoring:

Durant - 89th percentile
Curry - 93rd percentile
Thompson - 94th percentile
James - 76th percentile
Irving - 94th percentile
Ingram - 42nd percentile


You are going to be surprised by his numbers after the all star break, he finished the season really strong and that is why I don't like to talk about "Ingram rookie season" because his performance in 2016 was a major struggle, but he kept getting better every month of this year, in 2017 he has improved steadily with solid advanced stats and per 36 numbers in april increasing it in his lone summer league game.


I've noticed a lot of people don't like to talk about Ingram's rookie season

I am sure he will be better this season but referring to him as an elite ISO player is factually incorrect and extremely premature.


I don't avoid talking about his rookie season as a whole because he had mediocre numbers overall, but because he was another player in 2017.

Just forget for a moment what he did in 2016 when he was so skinny, shy and had to play PG and other roles, this is 2017 Brandon Ingram:

Jan: 11.5 PTS/36, 9.0 PER, 3.2 FTA
Feb: 11.8 PTS/36, 8.4 PER, 2.7 FTA
Mar: 13.7 PTS/36, 10.7 PER, 2.9 FTA
Apr: 18.9 PTS/36, 15.7 PER, 3.4 FTA
SL: 29.6 PTS/36, 27.6 PER, 9.0 FTA

He finished the season scoring 18.9 PTS/36 in April with his best PER of the season. You have raw numbers and advanced stats raising together, no fluke here.

I'm not telling he is anywhere near elite at anything and I really don't mind if we have to develop him coming from the bench, but he is a legit prospect in my mind and it is clear that at this point he is not a catch and shoot thread, he can ISO, cut, finish and pull up a rhythm shot from the elbow.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 12:08 pm    Post subject:

nash wrote:
ocho wrote:
nash wrote:
ocho wrote:
socalsp3 wrote:
You still need elite iso player in today's game when the offense breaks down. GSW has 3. Cavs had 2. Lakers have BI and maybe BLO.


ISO Scoring:

Durant - 89th percentile
Curry - 93rd percentile
Thompson - 94th percentile
James - 76th percentile
Irving - 94th percentile
Ingram - 42nd percentile


You are going to be surprised by his numbers after the all star break, he finished the season really strong and that is why I don't like to talk about "Ingram rookie season" because his performance in 2016 was a major struggle, but he kept getting better every month of this year, in 2017 he has improved steadily with solid advanced stats and per 36 numbers in april increasing it in his lone summer league game.


I've noticed a lot of people don't like to talk about Ingram's rookie season

I am sure he will be better this season but referring to him as an elite ISO player is factually incorrect and extremely premature.


I don't avoid talking about his rookie season as a whole because he had mediocre numbers overall, but because he was another player in 2017.

Just forget for a moment what he did in 2016 when he was so skinny, shy and had to play PG and other roles, this is 2017 Brandon Ingram:

Jan: 11.5 PTS/36, 9.0 PER, 3.2 FTA
Feb: 11.8 PTS/36, 8.4 PER, 2.7 FTA
Mar: 13.7 PTS/36, 10.7 PER, 2.9 FTA
Apr: 18.9 PTS/36, 15.7 PER, 3.4 FTA
SL: 29.6 PTS/36, 27.6 PER, 9.0 FTA

He finished the season scoring 18.9 PTS/36 in April with his best PER of the season. You have raw numbers and advanced stats raising together, no fluke here.

I'm not telling he is anywhere near elite at anything and I really don't mind if we have to develop him coming from the bench, but he is a legit prospect in my mind and it is clear that at this point he is not a catch and shoot thread, he can ISO, cut, finish and pull up a rhythm shot from the elbow.


Summer League was 1 game and April was 7 games. I can't put too much weight on it at the expense of the previous 6 months of play. He got better over the course of the season and I agree he's a prospect with potential. I was simply pushing back on the idea that he is an elite iso player because he isn't. He's not elite at anything right now, and bad at most things.
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nash
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 12:24 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
nash wrote:

I don't avoid talking about his rookie season as a whole because he had mediocre numbers overall, but because he was another player in 2017.

Just forget for a moment what he did in 2016 when he was so skinny, shy and had to play PG and other roles, this is 2017 Brandon Ingram:

Jan: 11.5 PTS/36, 9.0 PER, 3.2 FTA
Feb: 11.8 PTS/36, 8.4 PER, 2.7 FTA
Mar: 13.7 PTS/36, 10.7 PER, 2.9 FTA
Apr: 18.9 PTS/36, 15.7 PER, 3.4 FTA
SL: 29.6 PTS/36, 27.6 PER, 9.0 FTA

He finished the season scoring 18.9 PTS/36 in April with his best PER of the season. You have raw numbers and advanced stats raising together, no fluke here.

I'm not telling he is anywhere near elite at anything and I really don't mind if we have to develop him coming from the bench, but he is a legit prospect in my mind and it is clear that at this point he is not a catch and shoot thread, he can ISO, cut, finish and pull up a rhythm shot from the elbow.


Summer League was 1 game and April was 7 games. I can't put too much weight on it at the expense of the previous 6 months of play. He got better over the course of the season and I agree he's a prospect with potential. I was simply pushing back on the idea that he is an elite iso player because he isn't. He's not elite at anything right now, and bad at most things.


Yes, just 7 games in April under a minutes restriction that makes his per 36 numbers less credible, but the upper trajectory is clear, there were no bumps he just kept getting better.

While I agree that Ingram is not elite at anything yet, the last two months of the season he was above average in a series of plays, is a hard worker with some really good physical atributes and most would agree he has good BBIQ.

I don't remember the exact number, but despite the minutes restriction I believe he finished the season scoring in double digits in 19 of his last 20 games or something like that.

I like his potential, but I'm not one defending he should be "feeding" before players like LeBron and PG13. I believe he is going to start to deliver by the middle of his third season when we can have the two all star in place an then he can grow on his role until he is close to his prime and the previous all star generation will be declining.

Continuity is a must, something or former front office blatantly neglected. You want your next superstar generation flourishing while you have superstars and taking over when the veterans start to fade.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 1:49 pm    Post subject:

RE: Ingram being a ball stopper -

He's getting reps reading out off the tripe threat. It takes time (and aptitude) to get faster at that. Triple threat and read isn't a negative thing, though you don't want the read to take too long or the defense recovers. You also want to set up in a 'threat' zone which is player specific (Curry's for example is anywhere 32' and in).

Ingram has the physical tools and handle to set up outside the 3pt line and still be a 'compact' move away from the rim. He also has touch on his passes. Very short list of guys in the league with those tools and the ones who figure out how to use them are generally all-stars. Get stronger, get the footwork down (paging Mr. Bryant), get the 3pt shot out of triple threat, get the reps that will help speed up your reads and you're a perennial 20 point scorer in this league who can be a go to in crunch time.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 2:03 pm    Post subject:

Ingram will get credit for his rookie season strong end, while other young talents get it called a "small sample size"


But as far as BI goes, the 42nd percentile considering how his rookie season started I'm surprised it was actually that high even, as his rookie season for the first half was one of the most historically bad rookie seasons to date.

Good thing he turned it around after the goose-egg game vs Boston.


IF you want to see where Ingram was strongest, and where he was weakest in percentiles last year, here you go.


Brandon Ingram Offensive Percentiles:

Off-Screen: 87.2%ile
Put Back: 75.6%ile
Post-Up: 67.4%ile
Handoff: 57.1%ile
Isolation: 47.7%ile
Spot-Up: 46.1%ile
Cut: 33.3%ile
PnR Roll: 32.2%ile
PnR Handler: 25.7%ile
Transition: 12.5%ile


That should give you an idea of where Ingram's strengths and weaknesses were last season, and hopefully point to some of the things he hopefully worked on in the off-season going forward. The bottom 3 he's going to need major work on if he wants to fit with Lonzo best. The spot up I think he can get into the 50-60th %ile based on his changed jumpshot alone so I'm not too worried there.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:49 pm    Post subject:

Let me make a case for Brandon Ingram using some stats from GT's Lakers Filmroom

Pre ASG
PPP: 0.794
Percentile: 14th

Post ASG
PPP: 0.953
Percentile: 54th

Just for the sake of comparison

Julius Randle
Post ASG
PPP: 0.930
Percentile: 46th

Jordan Clarkson
Post ASG
PPP: 0.910
Percentile: 38th

D'Angelo Russell
Post ASG
PPP: 0.921
Percentile: 43rd
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