Homelessness in So. Cal
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PLATNUM
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:05 pm    Post subject: Homelessness in So. Cal

Anyone else noticing more and more homeless people out and about these days? It seems like they are not just in major cities, but even in suburban areas more than ever. Is it the economy and high rent/real estate? Lack of job availability?

I'm sympathetic to the few I have come across who have just had some unfortunate luck and circumstance and actively WANT to overcome their situation. But there are so many now that just don't seem to care.

I work at an office near Pasadena and every day there are 5 or 6 different people (and occasionally some new ones) who just sit around in front of our building, sometimes smoking and/or drinking. Sometimes even sleeping and hanging out. There is a bus stop nearby and the police have said it is technically public property, so they can't be asked to leave.
I have clients who don't want to stop in because of this and it sucks.

All I have read is that the cities and state is aware of the problem... But there are no viable solutions.
One police officer I know said that there ARE shelters available, but most of these people do not want to abide by the curfews and rules the shelters have in place. Sad.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:11 pm    Post subject:

1) Cost of rent
2) Gentrification, which leads to the homeless population not being able to hide in abandoned buildings anymore. That leads to them being more visible to the general public.
3) People that are high on drugs.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:43 pm    Post subject:

Around certain areas of the Westside in the past few years, you'd routinely see several RVs parked alongside of major roads. One even had sort of a makeshift garden on top and bags of various items hung around the sides.

Then there are the tents underneath the freeways, some would visit the nearby apartments and rummage through the bins on trash day. Others would go a step further by by jimmying locks to get to the recyclables in larger bins and for some reason, it became a social event with fellow dumpster enthusiasts at 3am.

Mayor Garcetti's solution is propose a $15/per square foot linkage fee for developers to pay for affordable housing which should raise anywhere from $75million to $92million. It costs approx 350k per unit, so that yields around 262 units of affordable housing every year. LA needs 100,000 units per year to keep up with the demand, with Garcetti's fee it's likely that some developers probably decide to wait it out and that may have an unintended effect on market rents going forward.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:08 pm    Post subject:

Many of the homeless are prisoners freed due to prison overcrowding. Here in the IE it is becoming a huge problem contributing to a significant uptick in "minor" crimes (vehicle break ins, bike stealing, panhandling, assaults, robberies). There is a cumulative effect, more released prisoners means more homeless people. More homeless people means more competition for your handout which means that they have to be more visible and aggressive. I had the pleasure of meeting such a gentleman early before work one morning as he was emptying the contents of my trashcans into the street in search of treasure. My efforts to motivate him to clean up the mess were countered with his invitation to kick my ass. Wearing a suit and tie, I offered instead to feed his bullet riddled corpse to my dogs. He declined and pedaled off to greener pastures, while I tidied up his mess.

ProTip: Ex-cons ride bikes because they don't have a driver's license. If you see someone who looks a little too old and out of place on that brand new mountain bike, beware! He's not just a homeless guy looking for a meal, and that's not his bike.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:54 pm    Post subject:

I wonder if the people on the street, think only suckers buy houses?
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:03 pm    Post subject:

JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Many of the homeless are prisoners freed due to prison overcrowding. Here in the IE it is becoming a huge problem contributing to a significant uptick in "minor" crimes (vehicle break ins, bike stealing, panhandling, assaults, robberies). There is a cumulative effect, more released prisoners means more homeless people. More homeless people means more competition for your handout which means that they have to be more visible and aggressive. I had the pleasure of meeting such a gentleman early before work one morning as he was emptying the contents of my trashcans into the street in search of treasure. My efforts to motivate him to clean up the mess were countered with his invitation to kick my ass. Wearing a suit and tie, I offered instead to feed his bullet riddled corpse to my dogs. He declined and pedaled off to greener pastures, while I tidied up his mess.

ProTip: Ex-cons ride bikes because they don't have a driver's license. If you see someone who looks a little too old and out of place on that brand new mountain bike, beware! He's not just a homeless guy looking for a meal, and that's not his bike.



classic.

I definitely feel you on this, though. Posted a few months back how my son's Martial Arts bag and over $100 worth of gear was stolen out of our car, right in front of our house IN THE DRIVEWAY. They are definitely not your average homeless/panhandling bunch.

Need to get these people into some kind of work program and clean up the cities in exchange for food/shelter or SOMETHING.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:22 pm    Post subject:

There is a unique shanty town that has popped up by my work in Anaheim/Orange. Along the Santa Ana river there is an estimated 500-1000 people living (per local newspaper reports) that can be clearly visibly seen from either the 22/5/57 freeways as a tent town occupying the bike trail surrounding Angel stadium. Unfortunately, everything I have heard as to why have already been mentioned in this thread...mainly that they don't want to live in a shelter because of the curfew, rules and wanting to do drugs.

It is really sad.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:30 pm    Post subject:

Lonzo'sBalls wrote:
There is a unique shanty town that has popped up by my work in Anaheim/Orange. Along the Santa Ana river there is an estimated 500-1000 people living (per local newspaper reports) that can be clearly visibly seen from either the 22/5/57 freeways as a tent town occupying the bike trail surrounding Angel stadium. Unfortunately, everything I have heard as to why have already been mentioned in this thread...mainly that they don't want to live in a shelter because of the curfew, rules and wanting to do drugs.

It is really sad.


That was the news recently, I've seen it evolve and get bigger over the years. I can see why city officials don't want it around as makes the city look like a slum .
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:10 am    Post subject:

Rents are insane, there is no rent control in LA and they let landlords raise rents however much they want, only new buldings being built are "luxury" apartments which drive up prices. I also know that some apartment buildings are illegally renting out units on AirBnb which is also driving up rents because they dont show up as vacant

Near where I work there is a street with about 30 RV's full of homeless people which becomes a problem because of lack of parking and also the sanitation problems of them releasing their waste out on the street less than a quarter mile from a school
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:42 am    Post subject:

^Rent control in LA exists for buildings built before 1978, though owners can set rents to market rates once the tenant moves out.

Some of the reasons why newly built apartments all seem to be "luxury": high cost of land, new building codes (including mandatory ADA), increased city fees (e.g. Quimby fees), labor costs/material costs, and "green" building initiatives. Unfortunately, in order for projects to pencil out, options are fairly limited these days.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:43 am    Post subject:

In addition to all of the factors listed above, a significant portion of the new hobos here were bused in to California from other states. Many of them never knew who paid for the buses, but they were told they'd be taken to places "for the night" where they'd be given hot showers, food, and beds. Nope. They were told to get off the bus in parking lots in Victorville, Indio, Fresno, etc., and then the bus drove away. They don't bother to find their way back out of temperate California, because why leave a place where the concrete stays in the 55-90F range?

LOL @ JMK's truth re: scallywags on bikes. If they're not dressed for the tour de france, call your local non-emergency police hotline so that a stop and frisk cruiser can come by and kindly excise that vagrant from your neighborhood before the holiday package season.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:26 am    Post subject:

Huey Lewis & The News wrote:
In addition to all of the factors listed above, a significant portion of the new hobos here were bused in to California from other states. Many of them never knew who paid for the buses, but they were told they'd be taken to places "for the night" where they'd be given hot showers, food, and beds. Nope. They were told to get off the bus in parking lots in Victorville, Indio, Fresno, etc., and then the bus drove away. They don't bother to find their way back out of temperate California, because why leave a place where the concrete stays in the 55-90F range?

LOL @ JMK's truth re: scallywags on bikes. If they're not dressed for the tour de france, call your local non-emergency police hotline so that a stop and frisk cruiser can come by and kindly excise that vagrant from your neighborhood before the holiday package season.


I own businesses in mid-city, miracle mile area. We've always had homeless in this area, but I first started noticing this crazy uptick about 2.5-3 years ago, and it keeps getting worse. The regulars all know me by now, as I take the time to talk to them before asking them to skidaddle. I really am curious how they got to where they are. Out of the hundreds of homeless I've met over the years, I can clearly remember the ones who were truly down on their luck on one hand.

What I've learned, as you said, is that Los Angeles has become a destination for those who choose to live "off the grid". I have countless stories. I met one "gentleman" who was using my outdoor faucet to do his laundry, and noticed he was charging his phone in one of my outlets (he broke off the lock box). Come to find out, he's from San Francisco, where he lived off the grid before coming to L.A. He said his other homeless friends here in L.A. told him to come down here due to soft laws and great weather. They are actively recruiting homeless from all over the country to come here to L.A.

I've been pretty involved with the police these last few years over the issue. I had no choice. These guys take a dump on my parking lot every day. I had to get rid of my perfectly kept landscaping because it became their public toilet (now they just piss and (bleep) in plain view). Some of my employees were getting assaulted for asking them to leave the premises and customers were afraid to patronize local businesses. One of my managers is going to court again today over an assault that occurred when a homeless came into my business, went to the back restricted area to use our microwave to heat his dumpster food, and then slugged my female manager who told him he had to leave.

This all started with the early-release proposition that voters passed a few years back (I believe it was prop 57 but my memory is foggy). Governor Brown is hellbent on emptying out the prison population. I've already been in a few violent altercations myself and these guys are out on the street in front of my business a few weeks later. It's a joke. These guys don't want jobs. They want a life without responsibilities, without paying taxes, do all the drugs they want and not have to answer to anyone. The police/politicians I've spoken to said it's not going to change because of the proposition that voters passed to empty the prisons of "non-violent" criminals.

Oh, and don't even bother with the non-emergency line. I get a busy tone when I call 911, forget non-emergency. Non-emergency line will keep replaying the ear-piercing, screeching noises that are meant for the deaf callers for sometimes an hour straight. Imagine that sound of those old dial-up modems just replaying over and over. Our police force in Los Angeles is the most understaffed in the entire country.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:07 pm    Post subject:

K2 wrote:
^Rent control in LA exists for buildings built before 1978, though owners can set rents to market rates once the tenant moves out.

Some of the reasons why newly built apartments all seem to be "luxury": high cost of land, new building codes (including mandatory ADA), increased city fees (e.g. Quimby fees), labor costs/material costs, and "green" building initiatives. Unfortunately, in order for projects to pencil out, options are fairly limited these days.


Also I think there would be a lot of opposition if lower income housing were built in neighborhoods that don't want them. People that own homes don't want their property values to drop, which is why they support luxury apartments.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:40 pm    Post subject:

Is it homeless if one chooses to live that way?

Not saying they all do, clearly they donít. But here in OC we have a major problem in anaheim and a lot of them donít want to be moved in to housing.

One woman wouldnít move unless she could take her pit bull. Big time dog lover here but youíre not truly homeless when you get to dictate the terms of your residence.

Oh, Iím homeless because I canít find a 4 bedroom apt with a stairway rail made of pure gold.

In some ways, I think itís a bit of a lifestyle for some. Itís sad but true.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:51 pm    Post subject:

wasnt it a big story about how other cities including Vegas round up their homeless and dump them in SoCal? Do they still do that?
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:05 pm    Post subject:

audioaxes wrote:
wasnt it a big story about how other cities including Vegas round up their homeless and dump them in SoCal? Do they still do that?


Yes.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:38 pm    Post subject:

It's not just LA. It's the same all over the country, but especially so on the more temperate West Coast.

Quote:
A homeless crisis of unprecedented proportions is rocking the West Coast, and its victims are being left behind by the very things that mark the regionís success: soaring housing costs, rock-bottom vacancy rates and a roaring economy that waits for no one. All along the coast, elected officials are scrambling for solutions.

Quote:
Iíve got economically zero unemployment in my city, and Iíve got thousands of homeless people that actually are working and just canít afford housing,Ē said Seattle City Councilman Mike OíBrien. ďThereís nowhere for these folks to move to. Every time we open up a new place, it fills up.


Homelessness is not new on the West Coast. But interviews with local officials and those who serve the homeless in California, Oregon and Washington Ė coupled with an Associated Press review of preliminary homeless data Ė confirm itís getting worse. People who were once able to get by, even if they suffered a setback, are now pushed to the streets because housing has become so expensive.


West Coast Housing Boom Pushing More Folks Onto the Street



Quote:
The Santa Monica City Council received a report Tuesday indicating that the city's homeless population rose sharply last year, growing by 26 percent. Among other things, the report indicates that many of the city's homeless residents are new to the area. Nearly 30 percent of those surveyed reported having been in Santa Monica less than a month, while 46 percent came to Santa Monica from other parts of LA and 32 percent are originally.

Homelessness was up across the board in the city, with a 39 percent increase in the number of people living on the street, a 26 percent increase in people living in cars and encampments, and a nine percent bump in the shelter population


Santa Monica Homeless Explosion
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:53 pm    Post subject:

Aussiesuede wrote:
It's not just LA. It's the same all over the country, but especially so on the more temperate West Coast.

Quote:
A homeless crisis of unprecedented proportions is rocking the West Coast, and its victims are being left behind by the very things that mark the regionís success: soaring housing costs, rock-bottom vacancy rates and a roaring economy that waits for no one. All along the coast, elected officials are scrambling for solutions.

Quote:
Iíve got economically zero unemployment in my city, and Iíve got thousands of homeless people that actually are working and just canít afford housing,Ē said Seattle City Councilman Mike OíBrien. ďThereís nowhere for these folks to move to. Every time we open up a new place, it fills up.


Homelessness is not new on the West Coast. But interviews with local officials and those who serve the homeless in California, Oregon and Washington Ė coupled with an Associated Press review of preliminary homeless data Ė confirm itís getting worse. People who were once able to get by, even if they suffered a setback, are now pushed to the streets because housing has become so expensive.


West Coast Housing Boom Pushing More Folks Onto the Street



Quote:
The Santa Monica City Council received a report Tuesday indicating that the city's homeless population rose sharply last year, growing by 26 percent. Among other things, the report indicates that many of the city's homeless residents are new to the area. Nearly 30 percent of those surveyed reported having been in Santa Monica less than a month, while 46 percent came to Santa Monica from other parts of LA and 32 percent are originally.

Homelessness was up across the board in the city, with a 39 percent increase in the number of people living on the street, a 26 percent increase in people living in cars and encampments, and a nine percent bump in the shelter population


Santa Monica Homeless Explosion


The expo line definitely had something to do with the increase.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:25 pm    Post subject:

Huey Lewis & The News wrote:

The expo line definitely had something to do with the increase.


In the case of Santa Monica, it's their own just rewards then. They got caught back in the early 90's providing homeless people with one way tickets to Honolulu. The already large homeless population ballooned and it was only a matter of time before word filtered up to how these 'new arrivals' happened upon their homeless situation in Hawaii all about the same time. Eventually HPD had officers posted near the gates of inbound flights from LA, and the "Not so Touristy Looking" arrivals were met with questioning and a stern suggestion to accept a free return ticket on the next flight out. HPD has been pretty vigilant every since, but local folklore of when Santa Monica got caught fuels a pretty strong belief amongst locals that many citiies from across the US are still engaged in similar shenanigans.

Quote:
A number of the homeless who were interviewed admitted to moving to Hawaii because of an interest in avoiding cold winters, as the prospect of living in a tent in Hawaii outweighed the thought of living on some city street in chilly weather.

The numbers of homeless have increased in Hawaii over the years. These people include families who can no longer pay the high rents in Hawaii, men and women who have lost jobs, people with mental health issues and mainland transplants who bought one-way tickets to paradise without the prospect of work or a place to live.

Many local people who have asked homeless people how they came to live in Hawaii are told that some agency on the mainland bought them a one-way ticket in the hopes of reducing the population of those in need of housing by shifting the problem to Hawaii. Yet state agencies have neither the funds nor the authority to provide money to send people to Hawaii simply to avoid the problem of homelessness in their respective states. Instead, as interviews have indicated, people arrive with no job, nowhere to live and no means of support, hoping instead to live off the dole in a place where it is less likely to track whatever problems may have led them to Hawaii, especially those whose on-the-street living has been recent and residency but a few weeks or months.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:40 pm    Post subject:

Meanwhile, the Waltons will get together in their mega mansions and give thanks for another year of 500 billion dollar profits.

Let's face it guys, the city's infrastructure is falling apart. Over the past two years I've seen my daily commute home grow from 1 hour to now almost 2 hours one way.

We just have too many damn people in this city now. And to be honest, the middle class are moving out and we're left with a huge disparity of rich and poor. I work in construction and see a lot of this gentrification stuff first hand- you see old, beat up buildings in downtown being restored and you think wow this is good for the city, but then you walk down the streets and see the hopeless mass of homeless sleeping in tents next to parking lots full of luxury vehicles.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:00 pm    Post subject:

The Valley has become inundated as well. Never seen so many homeless people and along the 405? Holy crap, they get cleared out one day and they're back the next. I agree with the above, too many damn people in this city and despite having been born and raised here it's time to get out.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:36 pm    Post subject:

Sojo wrote:
The Valley has become inundated as well. Never seen so many homeless people and along the 405? Holy crap, they get cleared out one day and they're back the next. I agree with the above, too many damn people in this city and despite having been born and raised here it's time to get out.


It truly has spread everywhere. Same tell-tale signs in small towns, medium sized towns, and big cities up and down the West Coast. We just returned from a long round trip drive Seattle to Santa Barbara and back for the holidays. It's most noticable at night time. RV's grouped near / under free way overpasses. Car's parked nearish to major centers with condensation on the windows. On the drive down, we quickly realised that the closer a Rst area was to an urban center, the more 'non-traveling vehicles there would be with towels hung up on the windows and a pretty much guaranteed presence of a number of people signs asking for donations. Couple of young kids asked for a ride north - said they could "Gas Jug". Curious as to exactly what it was, we asked. Now I know that "Gas Jugging" is a common term and widespread amongst the economically impaired.

We took a rest in Weed, Ca up near the Cal/Oregon border on the way down and had to double back to the Rest Area on the east side of the highway due to the West Bound one being shut down due to some type of major Police Activity. Stopped in the same Rest Area for relief on the drive back up, and saw many of the same vehicles again - and it just doesn't get any more remote small town than Weed, CA.

So if thinking of moving from LA, just realise that the same scenario will likely be awaiting you where ever you might head to, and if it's not there yet, it'll be coming soon enough. It's clear that while receiving a large focus, sadly the homeless epidemic seems to actually be under-reported. It's a (bleep) state of affairs out there with our fellow Americans, and seems far from getting better.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:51 pm    Post subject:

Ziggy wrote:
Huey Lewis & The News wrote:
In addition to all of the factors listed above, a significant portion of the new hobos here were bused in to California from other states. Many of them never knew who paid for the buses, but they were told they'd be taken to places "for the night" where they'd be given hot showers, food, and beds. Nope. They were told to get off the bus in parking lots in Victorville, Indio, Fresno, etc., and then the bus drove away. They don't bother to find their way back out of temperate California, because why leave a place where the concrete stays in the 55-90F range?

LOL @ JMK's truth re: scallywags on bikes. If they're not dressed for the tour de france, call your local non-emergency police hotline so that a stop and frisk cruiser can come by and kindly excise that vagrant from your neighborhood before the holiday package season.


I own businesses in mid-city, miracle mile area. We've always had homeless in this area, but I first started noticing this crazy uptick about 2.5-3 years ago, and it keeps getting worse. The regulars all know me by now, as I take the time to talk to them before asking them to skidaddle. I really am curious how they got to where they are. Out of the hundreds of homeless I've met over the years, I can clearly remember the ones who were truly down on their luck on one hand.

What I've learned, as you said, is that Los Angeles has become a destination for those who choose to live "off the grid". I have countless stories. I met one "gentleman" who was using my outdoor faucet to do his laundry, and noticed he was charging his phone in one of my outlets (he broke off the lock box). Come to find out, he's from San Francisco, where he lived off the grid before coming to L.A. He said his other homeless friends here in L.A. told him to come down here due to soft laws and great weather. They are actively recruiting homeless from all over the country to come here to L.A.

I've been pretty involved with the police these last few years over the issue. I had no choice. These guys take a dump on my parking lot every day. I had to get rid of my perfectly kept landscaping because it became their public toilet (now they just piss and (bleep) in plain view). Some of my employees were getting assaulted for asking them to leave the premises and customers were afraid to patronize local businesses. One of my managers is going to court again today over an assault that occurred when a homeless came into my business, went to the back restricted area to use our microwave to heat his dumpster food, and then slugged my female manager who told him he had to leave.

This all started with the early-release proposition that voters passed a few years back (I believe it was prop 57 but my memory is foggy). Governor Brown is hellbent on emptying out the prison population. I've already been in a few violent altercations myself and these guys are out on the street in front of my business a few weeks later. It's a joke. These guys don't want jobs. They want a life without responsibilities, without paying taxes, do all the drugs they want and not have to answer to anyone. The police/politicians I've spoken to said it's not going to change because of the proposition that voters passed to empty the prisons of "non-violent" criminals.

Oh, and don't even bother with the non-emergency line. I get a busy tone when I call 911, forget non-emergency. Non-emergency line will keep replaying the ear-piercing, screeching noises that are meant for the deaf callers for sometimes an hour straight. Imagine that sound of those old dial-up modems just replaying over and over. Our police force in Los Angeles is the most understaffed in the entire country.


Wow. That sucks, man. Luckily, the ones I've dealt with so far have been pretty decent, but it pisses me off sometimes that these people have ZERO respect for other people or property. Just laying on the freaking walkway and my clients have to walk around them to get into my building. Really?

We just need a really harsh winter. Maybe that will help.

...ok, I'm kidding.
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:12 pm    Post subject:

Aussiesuede wrote:
Huey Lewis & The News wrote:

The expo line definitely had something to do with the increase.


In the case of Santa Monica, it's their own just rewards then. They got caught back in the early 90's providing homeless people with one way tickets to Honolulu. The already large homeless population ballooned and it was only a matter of time before word filtered up to how these 'new arrivals' happened upon their homeless situation in Hawaii all about the same time. Eventually HPD had officers posted near the gates of inbound flights from LA, and the "Not so Touristy Looking" arrivals were met with questioning and a stern suggestion to accept a free return ticket on the next flight out. HPD has been pretty vigilant every since, but local folklore of when Santa Monica got caught fuels a pretty strong belief amongst locals that many citiies from across the US are still engaged in similar shenanigans.

Quote:
A number of the homeless who were interviewed admitted to moving to Hawaii because of an interest in avoiding cold winters, as the prospect of living in a tent in Hawaii outweighed the thought of living on some city street in chilly weather.

The numbers of homeless have increased in Hawaii over the years. These people include families who can no longer pay the high rents in Hawaii, men and women who have lost jobs, people with mental health issues and mainland transplants who bought one-way tickets to paradise without the prospect of work or a place to live.

Many local people who have asked homeless people how they came to live in Hawaii are told that some agency on the mainland bought them a one-way ticket in the hopes of reducing the population of those in need of housing by shifting the problem to Hawaii. Yet state agencies have neither the funds nor the authority to provide money to send people to Hawaii simply to avoid the problem of homelessness in their respective states. Instead, as interviews have indicated, people arrive with no job, nowhere to live and no means of support, hoping instead to live off the dole in a place where it is less likely to track whatever problems may have led them to Hawaii, especially those whose on-the-street living has been recent and residency but a few weeks or months.


Aloha Shelter


I'm not surprised there is opposition from some cities for building more homeless shelters. As we have seen on the news, hospitals have been busted dumping patients onto skid row. Other cities would just outsource their homeless population to another and the city that provides the services will be inundated.
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ContagiousInspiration
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:09 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
Lonzo'sBalls wrote:
There is a unique shanty town that has popped up by my work in Anaheim/Orange. Along the Santa Ana river there is an estimated 500-1000 people living (per local newspaper reports) that can be clearly visibly seen from either the 22/5/57 freeways as a tent town occupying the bike trail surrounding Angel stadium. Unfortunately, everything I have heard as to why have already been mentioned in this thread...mainly that they don't want to live in a shelter because of the curfew, rules and wanting to do drugs.

It is really sad.


That was the news recently, I've seen it evolve and get bigger over the years. I can see why city officials don't want it around as makes the city look like a slum .


Those (bleep) better be paying for healthcare soon. What kind of Americans do they think they are?
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