LaMelo and Draft Circumvention
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activeverb
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:05 pm    Post subject:

saetarubia wrote:
I expect a European team to take them. Obviously, media will interview a few who will give negative narratives which will help their clicks.


Huh? You think the reporter purposefully called teams he knew would say only bad things?

C'mon. The reporter didn't know what people would say until they said it. And the reporter wouldn't care. GMs saying they wanted the Balls would be just as good a story.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:12 pm    Post subject:

saetarubia wrote:
Most don't know the existence of bottom feeders outside Spain. They hardly get any sponsorship revenue and survive from even changing the name of the team to a brand. If Ball kids could bring them some attention and money, I can see a team taking them in lesser European leagues if not Spain. Being on the Ball FB show alone will give some teams more exposure than they ever had lol.


Big "if." I don't know that anyone in Spain cares much about the Ball circus.

Anyway, I was curious whether Lamelo can even go to Spain at age 16. If you're a Real Madrid supporter, you probably know that FIFA has restrictions on underage players going to Europe. In fact, I think Real, Barca, and a couple other clubs have gotten into trouble over that.

I looked up the FIBA rules. The minimum age for an international transfer is 18, except in special cases. Here is the rule for special cases:

Quote:
52. If the proposed transfer is linked to basketball, the following criteria shall be taken into account when making the decision on the authorisation of the transfer:

a. The player’s new club shall guarantee adequate academic and/or school and/or vocational training which prepares him for a career after his career as a professional player.

b. The new club shall provide appropriate basketball training in order to develop and/or further the player’s career as a professional player.

c. The new club shall demonstrate that it conducts an appropriate training programme for young players of the nationality of the club’s home country.

d. The new club shall make a contribution to a Solidarity Fund established by FIBA to support the development of young players.

e. The young player, his parents, the new club, and the new national member federation shall declare in writing that, until his eighteenth (18) birthday, the player will make himself available for his home country’s national team and, if necessary, for the preparation time as well as for training camps provided that they do not interfere with school activities.

f. The transfer does not disrupt the player’s schooling.


That's going to be problematic for Lamelo, to say the least.

Liangelo could have a different problem. He could have trouble getting a work permit from Spain because of his shoplifting arrest in China.

For the sake of the two kids, I hope Lavar and the agent have given all of this careful thought.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:39 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
saetarubia wrote:
Most don't know the existence of bottom feeders outside Spain. They hardly get any sponsorship revenue and survive from even changing the name of the team to a brand. If Ball kids could bring them some attention and money, I can see a team taking them in lesser European leagues if not Spain. Being on the Ball FB show alone will give some teams more exposure than they ever had lol.


Big "if." I don't know that anyone in Spain cares much about the Ball circus.

Anyway, I was curious whether Lamelo can even go to Spain at age 16. If you're a Real Madrid supporter, you probably know that FIFA has restrictions on underage players going to Europe. In fact, I think Real, Barca, and a couple other clubs have gotten into trouble over that.

I looked up the FIBA rules. The minimum age for an international transfer is 18, except in special cases. Here is the rule for special cases:

Quote:
52. If the proposed transfer is linked to basketball, the following criteria shall be taken into account when making the decision on the authorisation of the transfer:

a. The player’s new club shall guarantee adequate academic and/or school and/or vocational training which prepares him for a career after his career as a professional player.

b. The new club shall provide appropriate basketball training in order to develop and/or further the player’s career as a professional player.

c. The new club shall demonstrate that it conducts an appropriate training programme for young players of the nationality of the club’s home country.

d. The new club shall make a contribution to a Solidarity Fund established by FIBA to support the development of young players.

e. The young player, his parents, the new club, and the new national member federation shall declare in writing that, until his eighteenth (18) birthday, the player will make himself available for his home country’s national team and, if necessary, for the preparation time as well as for training camps provided that they do not interfere with school activities.

f. The transfer does not disrupt the player’s schooling.


That's going to be problematic for Lamelo, to say the least.

Liangelo could have a different problem. He could have trouble getting a work permit from Spain because of his shoplifting arrest in China.

For the sake of the two kids, I hope Lavar and the agent have given all of this careful thought.


Does this apply for the Ball brothers though, because technically, they are free agents. a transfer is when a one clubs pays another club for the acquisition of a player they want. in this case, they both arent associated with any professional club, they will just be signing their 1st (not even professional, from my knowledge) contract. they could, for example, move to certain city like Madrid or Istanbul, apply for school there, enter the local clubs youth sections, sign contract and get registered for that club and it will count as their 1st club in FIBAs books. i might be wrong, not sure how FIBA views US colleges in this regard
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:43 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
saetarubia wrote:
Most don't know the existence of bottom feeders outside Spain. They hardly get any sponsorship revenue and survive from even changing the name of the team to a brand. If Ball kids could bring them some attention and money, I can see a team taking them in lesser European leagues if not Spain. Being on the Ball FB show alone will give some teams more exposure than they ever had lol.


Big "if." I don't know that anyone in Spain cares much about the Ball circus.

Anyway, I was curious whether Lamelo can even go to Spain at age 16. If you're a Real Madrid supporter, you probably know that FIFA has restrictions on underage players going to Europe. In fact, I think Real, Barca, and a couple other clubs have gotten into trouble over that.

I looked up the FIBA rules. The minimum age for an international transfer is 18, except in special cases. Here is the rule for special cases:

Quote:
52. If the proposed transfer is linked to basketball, the following criteria shall be taken into account when making the decision on the authorisation of the transfer:

a. The player’s new club shall guarantee adequate academic and/or school and/or vocational training which prepares him for a career after his career as a professional player.

b. The new club shall provide appropriate basketball training in order to develop and/or further the player’s career as a professional player.

c. The new club shall demonstrate that it conducts an appropriate training programme for young players of the nationality of the club’s home country.

d. The new club shall make a contribution to a Solidarity Fund established by FIBA to support the development of young players.

e. The young player, his parents, the new club, and the new national member federation shall declare in writing that, until his eighteenth (18) birthday, the player will make himself available for his home country’s national team and, if necessary, for the preparation time as well as for training camps provided that they do not interfere with school activities.

f. The transfer does not disrupt the player’s schooling.


That's going to be problematic for Lamelo, to say the least.

Liangelo could have a different problem. He could have trouble getting a work permit from Spain because of his shoplifting arrest in China.

For the sake of the two kids, I hope Lavar and the agent have given all of this careful thought.


Yea. football players from foreign country can't join until they are 18. Not sure about Basketball as Doncic has been with the team since he was 15-16. Guess it depends on whether clubs are high on LaMelo's talent or not like with Doncic.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:34 am    Post subject:

GOODRICH25 wrote:
Does this apply for the Ball brothers though, because technically, they are free agents. a transfer is when a one clubs pays another club for the acquisition of a player they want. in this case, they both arent associated with any professional club, they will just be signing their 1st (not even professional, from my knowledge) contract. they could, for example, move to certain city like Madrid or Istanbul, apply for school there, enter the local clubs youth sections, sign contract and get registered for that club and it will count as their 1st club in FIBAs books. i might be wrong, not sure how FIBA views US colleges in this regard


I do not claim to be an expert on this. However, it is my understanding that "transfer" in this context means a transfer from the U.S. federation to the Spanish federation, not a transfer between clubs. You can see this in the language of the rule immediately following the one I quoted:

Quote:
53. Not more than five (5) outward transfers of players under the age of eighteen (18) can be approved in any one year from any one national member federation; similarly, not more than ten (10) such transfers inward can be approved for any one national member federation. These restrictions relate only to transfers linked to basketball, apply separately to male and female players and shall be based on the order in which transfer requests were received by FIBA. National member federations have the right to withdraw a transfer request for a young player before FIBA issues a decision on the matter.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:43 am    Post subject:

saetarubia wrote:
Yea. football players from foreign country can't join until they are 18. Not sure about Basketball as Doncic has been with the team since he was 15-16. Guess it depends on whether clubs are high on LaMelo's talent or not like with Doncic.


Real Madrid is going to be able to satisfy the criteria for an underage transfer. They probably have an academy structure, just like they do in football. But Real Madrid isn't likely to have any interest in these kids. If you get down to Team Doritos at the bottom of the table, or some team in the lower divisions, the odds are that they won't have an academy structure. And then you have the problem with Lavar pulling Lamelo out of school in the US.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:33 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
iimarshon wrote:
So if LaMelo plays overseas this year, can he declare for the draft this year? At which point, the team that drafts him would only be able to play him in G-League until hes 19 right?

Or is he ineligible for the draft for another 2-3 years?



I believe he can't be drafted until 2020. Because he was born in the US, I don't believe he'll qualify for the international player status, and he can only be drafted during the year he turns 19.


By this time next year the draft age may be 18. If the other draft elements don't change Ball's leverage increases. Sitting out a year at 18 isn't a hard sell when you have money.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:35 pm    Post subject:

Laker's Fan wrote:
activeverb wrote:
iimarshon wrote:
So if LaMelo plays overseas this year, can he declare for the draft this year? At which point, the team that drafts him would only be able to play him in G-League until hes 19 right?

Or is he ineligible for the draft for another 2-3 years?



I believe he can't be drafted until 2020. Because he was born in the US, I don't believe he'll qualify for the international player status, and he can only be drafted during the year he turns 19.


By this time next year the draft age may be 18. If the other draft elements don't change Ball's leverage increases. Sitting out a year at 18 isn't a hard sell when you have money.


With dropping the age to 18 they are also talking about making the kids stay in the d-league until they are 19 or possibly older. Don't really care that much to see him in the d-league.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:49 pm    Post subject:

Laker's Fan wrote:
activeverb wrote:
iimarshon wrote:
So if LaMelo plays overseas this year, can he declare for the draft this year? At which point, the team that drafts him would only be able to play him in G-League until hes 19 right?

Or is he ineligible for the draft for another 2-3 years?



I believe he can't be drafted until 2020. Because he was born in the US, I don't believe he'll qualify for the international player status, and he can only be drafted during the year he turns 19.


By this time next year the draft age may be 18. If the other draft elements don't change Ball's leverage increases. Sitting out a year at 18 isn't a hard sell when you have money.


Maybe, maybe, maybe, always maybe. I don't really care. I find the whole Ball circus boring, it's not clear any of them are going to be significant NBA players (even Lonzo), and the fewer of them that are Lakers, the happier I will be.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:33 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
Laker's Fan wrote:
activeverb wrote:
iimarshon wrote:
So if LaMelo plays overseas this year, can he declare for the draft this year? At which point, the team that drafts him would only be able to play him in G-League until hes 19 right?

Or is he ineligible for the draft for another 2-3 years?



I believe he can't be drafted until 2020. Because he was born in the US, I don't believe he'll qualify for the international player status, and he can only be drafted during the year he turns 19.


By this time next year the draft age may be 18. If the other draft elements don't change Ball's leverage increases. Sitting out a year at 18 isn't a hard sell when you have money.

Maybe, maybe, maybe, always maybe. I don't really care. I find the whole Ball circus boring, it's not clear any of them are going to be significant NBA players (even Lonzo), and the fewer of them that are Lakers, the happier I will be.

Unless they are good at playing basketball.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:44 am    Post subject:

^^^^

As time goes by, I find myself drifting from "Unless" to "Even if." Hopefully, this stuff will die down over time.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:50 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
^^^^

As time goes by, I find myself drifting from "Unless" to "Even if." Hopefully, this stuff will die down over time.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:59 am    Post subject:

something I am curious about....maybe there is something simple I am missing, but in regards to LaMelo and his primary education, etc. I know Lavar originally claimed he would be home schooling him, but how does that work in California? I assume there are still quarterly / annual standards that are tested/evaluated to ensure the child is being educated? Then if he goes overseas....and is out of country for 5-7 months, but still officially resides in California....does he still have to be getting "educated" since it is a requirement that minors are educated until at least the age of 18?

Honestly, I do not buy any of it....expect the kid a laying around in bed, cruising in his Lamborghini, playing basketball and traveling around with Lavar.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:14 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
something I am curious about....maybe there is something simple I am missing, but in regards to LaMelo and his primary education, etc. I know Lavar originally claimed he would be home schooling him, but how does that work in California? I assume there are still quarterly / annual standards that are tested/evaluated to ensure the child is being educated? Then if he goes overseas....and is out of country for 5-7 months, but still officially resides in California....does he still have to be getting "educated" since it is a requirement that minors are educated until at least the age of 18?

Honestly, I do not buy any of it....expect the kid a laying around in bed, cruising in his Lamborghini, playing basketball and traveling around with Lavar.


Well, if you heard Lavar's answer on schooling, I doubt he cares much if his kids get an education. He sees basketball is their primary goal.
Also just because somebody got a diploma in high school doesn't mean they aren't idiots....the education standards from K-12 means that somebody that graduated high school just acquired enough skills to skate by in society. The majority of people will need a college degree to function in today's world.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:08 pm    Post subject:

I believe that a 16 year old can drop out of school with his/her parent's permission. Given that Lavar is trying to bypass college, there's no need to create the illusion that Lamelo is still a student.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:38 pm    Post subject:

rwongega wrote:
K2 wrote:
Not sure what will happen to Gelo, but if Melo follows the path that Brandon Jennings took it might work out for him eventually. It's a not an easy road by any means.

http://www.espn.com/espnmag/story?section=magazine&id=3715746


It takes a lot of humility and you have to develop your maturity fast or the Euros will chew you out. I doubt LaMelo or LiAngelo have that. Though I guess they'll have a rich dad to pay the team for preferential treatment.


Well said, neither one will last long in the Euro leagues even if their dad pays for placement on a team. As soon as one of them whines about the conditions, he'll probably do the blame game and pull them out again.

Then there are players like Matt Thomas who go through all four years in college before heading overseas. He was the summer leaguer for the Lakers who earned some recognition for his 3 pt shooting on this year's squad. Since he wasn't going to get a chance here, Thomas signed with Rio Natura Monbus Obradoiro in Spain's ACB and has become their leading scorer. Last year, they were one of the worst teams and had never had a winning record in their franchise history. With Thomas hitting 57% from 3, he's helped them to a 6-2 record in the standings.

Originally thought that maybe Gelo/Melo would try lobbying for spots on a similar team, but they're better off trying their luck in a league that might not have heard of them so that can start anew without baggage. Maybe the Kazakhstan League.

12/11 Edit - Looks like the Ball bros might end up playing for a lower div Lithuanian club in the Baltic League that does include visits to Kazakhstan.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:17 pm    Post subject:

LiAngelo and Lamelo sign one-year deals with Lithuanian pro team.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/21741604/liangelo-lamelo-ball-serious-talks-lithuanian-basketball-club

Quote:
Prienu Vytautas, or BC Prienai as it's often called, is a low-level club from a small, non-English speaking village of roughly 10,000 people in southern Lithuania. The team has been grappling with financial issues, and started the season losing eight of its first 12 games in the Lithuanian league.

...

The team has no general manager and doesn't practice regularly due to the poor financial situation.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:09 pm    Post subject:

So instead of being on TV, the 2 younger Ball brothers will now be playing in Europe away from all the NBA scouts and familiar settings of the good ol' USA...thanks dad...
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:13 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
So instead of being on TV, the 2 younger Ball brothers will now be playing in Europe away from all the NBA scouts and familiar settings of the good ol' USA...thanks dad...


Well, LaVar didn't steal from China. And LiAngelo himself said he didn't want to sit out 3-4 months which is pretty much the season in USA Today interview.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:28 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
So instead of being on TV, the 2 younger Ball brothers will now be playing in Europe away from all the NBA scouts and familiar settings of the good ol' USA...thanks dad...


They're moving on up, the Prienų Arena seats a whopping 1,500 (ESPN says 1,700) which is larger than the 1,300 seat capacity Chino Hills High gym.

They'll be fine as long as they pass the ball to the coach's son B̶r̶y̶c̶e̶ ̶A̶l̶f̶o̶r̶d̶ Edvinas Seskus. [s] It's not like they're going to leave after 1 month like Brad Tinsley. [/s]

Some of you may remember Reeves Nelson who left UCLA early to compete in the Lithuanian Basketball League, he lasted for a little more than a month before he got released. He's since changed his name to Sophaur One.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:17 pm    Post subject:

K2 wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
So instead of being on TV, the 2 younger Ball brothers will now be playing in Europe away from all the NBA scouts and familiar settings of the good ol' USA...thanks dad...


They're moving on up, the Prienų Arena seats a whopping 1,500 (ESPN says 1,700) which is larger than the 1,300 seat capacity Chino Hills High gym.

They'll be fine as long as they pass the ball to the coach's son B̶r̶y̶c̶e̶ ̶A̶l̶f̶o̶r̶d̶ Edvinas Seskus. [s] It's not like they're going to leave after 1 month like Brad Tinsley. [/s]

Some of you may remember Reeves Nelson who left UCLA early to compete in the Lithuanian Basketball League, he lasted for a little more than a month before he got released. He's since changed his name to Sophaur One.


yeah, this has success written all over it....as soon as I read the coaches son is the best player / star of the team....I assume this will not end well. Also read the team does not practice regularly because of financial struggles and openly admits they hope the publicity from the Ball's will help them financially.

Kids could have been playing in the arena John Wooden coached greatness in....around the country in front of 15-20K fans a night on ESPN with the Legend Bill Walton talking them up. Instead they will play in Middle School gyms in a former Soviet country with teammates that do not speak their language in a league that has been known to be hostile and resentful of Americans players.

Them SoCal boys going to love that Siberia lite climate.

I will not be surprised one day if the Ball brothers split from the father.

http://www.eurobasket.com/arena/prienai.jpg
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:29 pm    Post subject:

K2 wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
So instead of being on TV, the 2 younger Ball brothers will now be playing in Europe away from all the NBA scouts and familiar settings of the good ol' USA...thanks dad...


They're moving on up, the Prienų Arena seats a whopping 1,500 (ESPN says 1,700) which is larger than the 1,300 seat capacity Chino Hills High gym.

They'll be fine as long as they pass the ball to the coach's son B̶r̶y̶c̶e̶ ̶A̶l̶f̶o̶r̶d̶ Edvinas Seskus. [s] It's not like they're going to leave after 1 month like Brad Tinsley. [/s]

Some of you may remember Reeves Nelson who left UCLA early to compete in the Lithuanian Basketball League, he lasted for a little more than a month before he got released. He's since changed his name to Sophaur One.


all around.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:35 pm    Post subject:

K2 wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
So instead of being on TV, the 2 younger Ball brothers will now be playing in Europe away from all the NBA scouts and familiar settings of the good ol' USA...thanks dad...


They're moving on up, the Prienų Arena seats a whopping 1,500 (ESPN says 1,700) which is larger than the 1,300 seat capacity Chino Hills High gym.

They'll be fine as long as they pass the ball to the coach's son B̶r̶y̶c̶e̶ ̶A̶l̶f̶o̶r̶d̶ Edvinas Seskus. [s] It's not like they're going to leave after 1 month like Brad Tinsley. [/s]

Some of you may remember Reeves Nelson who left UCLA early to compete in the Lithuanian Basketball League, he lasted for a little more than a month before he got released. He's since changed his name to Sophaur One.


Wow, I had to google this since I couldn't believe this was real.....
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:39 pm    Post subject:

What's the punishment for shoplifting in Lithuania?
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:43 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
K2 wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
So instead of being on TV, the 2 younger Ball brothers will now be playing in Europe away from all the NBA scouts and familiar settings of the good ol' USA...thanks dad...


They're moving on up, the Prienų Arena seats a whopping 1,500 (ESPN says 1,700) which is larger than the 1,300 seat capacity Chino Hills High gym.

They'll be fine as long as they pass the ball to the coach's son B̶r̶y̶c̶e̶ ̶A̶l̶f̶o̶r̶d̶ Edvinas Seskus. [s] It's not like they're going to leave after 1 month like Brad Tinsley. [/s]

Some of you may remember Reeves Nelson who left UCLA early to compete in the Lithuanian Basketball League, he lasted for a little more than a month before he got released. He's since changed his name to Sophaur One.


yeah, this has success written all over it....as soon as I read the coaches son is the best player / star of the team....I assume this will not end well. Also read the team does not practice regularly because of financial struggles and openly admits they hope the publicity from the Ball's will help them financially.

Kids could have been playing in the arena John Wooden coached greatness in....around the country in front of 15-20K fans a night on ESPN with the Legend Bill Walton talking them up. Instead they will play in Middle School gyms in a former Soviet country with teammates that do not speak their language in a league that has been known to be hostile and resentful of Americans players.

Them SoCal boys going to love that Siberia lite climate.

I will not be surprised one day if the Ball brothers split from the father.

http://www.eurobasket.com/arena/prienai.jpg


I would be surprised if they lasted the entire season. There are guys playing just to put food on the table.....and also against guys who are trying to keep the last remaining vestiges of their pro career going.
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