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AY2043
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Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Posts: 10621
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 Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | AY2043 wrote: | | Imo clarkson is not a salary dump, his contract is OK. The lakers need to shed it because they have a 2 max plan but he's serviceable at his price. I personally would not send Zubac, Nance AND 1st just for taking on Deng's contract. 2 of the 3 sure, but not all 3. That 1st is what Chicago would probably want so it's most likely Zubac/1st or Nance/1st. There is also something to be said relieving the Bulls of a potential Wade buyout. |
They have to do both to get a $36m (Lebron) and a $31 (George) max, unless you have some other plan to shave off $4.2m, and this is already assuming that Thomas Bryant is not picked up. |
Is that number including trading Zubac and Nance in a Deng salary dump? I'm far from 100% clear on our cap situation. Just know we have to clear a few extra mil even after dumping Deng. |
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greenfrog
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Joined: 02 Jan 2011
Posts: 36081
Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| AY2043 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | AY2043 wrote: | | I think that's the main reason for our difference of opinions on this one. Like I said, we have to trade him or not re-sign Randle in order to create 2 maxes. And personally, I'd rather keep Randle's cap hold (about 12 mil), trade Clarkson, and then go over the cap to sign Randle after signing 2 maxes. |
They have to do both to get a $36m (Lebron) and a $31 (George) max, unless you have some other plan to shave off $4.2m, and this is already assuming that Thomas Bryant is not picked up. |
Is that number including trading Zubac and Nance in a Deng salary dump? I'm far from 100% clear on our cap situation. Just know we have to clear a few extra mil even after dumping Deng. |
Their salaries combined only reach $3.8. Nance is a bargain at $2.3 anyway. I don't see the logic in moving him.
That 4.2 number, btw, is also including the savings from stretching Deng.
EDIT: I screwed up trimming the quote train, btw. Bolded is the part I was responding to.
Last edited by greenfrog on Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:30 pm; edited 5 times in total |
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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Joined: 18 Jul 2014
Posts: 8160
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | AY2043 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | AY2043 wrote: | | Imo clarkson is not a salary dump, his contract is OK. The lakers need to shed it because they have a 2 max plan but he's serviceable at his price. I personally would not send Zubac, Nance AND 1st just for taking on Deng's contract. 2 of the 3 sure, but not all 3. That 1st is what Chicago would probably want so it's most likely Zubac/1st or Nance/1st. There is also something to be said relieving the Bulls of a potential Wade buyout. |
They have to do both to get a $36m (Lebron) and a $31 (George) max, unless you have some other plan to shave off $4.2m, and this is already assuming that Thomas Bryant is not picked up. |
Is that number including trading Zubac and Nance in a Deng salary dump? I'm far from 100% clear on our cap situation. Just know we have to clear a few extra mil even after dumping Deng. |
Their salaries combined only reach $3.8. Nance is a bargain at $2.3 anyway. I don't see the logic is moving him.
That 4.2 number, btw, is also including the savings from stretching Deng. |
How about both signing for $30m each? Just shaved off $7m. |
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defense
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Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 39537
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| krisobe wrote: | DEATH LINEUP OF....
BALL
KCP
INGRAM
KUZMA
BOGUT
4 players that can shoot the 3, and one player for defense n rebounds. |
KCP- mediocre shooter
Ingram- terrible shooter
Ball/Kuzma- has not played a single NBA game
I like your optimism |
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Inspector Gadget
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Posts: 46684
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| defense wrote: | | krisobe wrote: | DEATH LINEUP OF....
BALL
KCP
INGRAM
KUZMA
BOGUT
4 players that can shoot the 3, and one player for defense n rebounds. |
KCP- mediocre shooter
Ingram- terrible shooter
Ball/Kuzma- has not played a single NBA game
I like your optimism |
Bogut rarely closed in Death lineups. Doubt he does so here too.
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From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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epak
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| pio2u wrote: | | epak wrote: | | adkindo wrote: |
Isn't 1 & 2 the same thing?
#1 - Poor Summer for Zubac
#2 - Insurance for Lopez |
What's the 3rd? Knowing Luke's system? |
– Ivica Zubac struggled to take a step forward
– Insurance for Lopez
– Proven winner |
Thanks!
Odd, I would have thought Bogut being familiar with Luke and his system would be top 3. |
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AY2043
Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Posts: 10621
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | AY2043 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | AY2043 wrote: | | I think that's the main reason for our difference of opinions on this one. Like I said, we have to trade him or not re-sign Randle in order to create 2 maxes. And personally, I'd rather keep Randle's cap hold (about 12 mil), trade Clarkson, and then go over the cap to sign Randle after signing 2 maxes. |
They have to do both to get a $36m (Lebron) and a $31 (George) max, unless you have some other plan to shave off $4.2m, and this is already assuming that Thomas Bryant is not picked up. |
Is that number including trading Zubac and Nance in a Deng salary dump? I'm far from 100% clear on our cap situation. Just know we have to clear a few extra mil even after dumping Deng. |
Their salaries combined only reach $3.8. Nance is a bargain at $2.3 anyway. I don't see the logic in moving him.
That 4.2 number, btw, is also including the savings from stretching Deng.
EDIT: I screwed up trimming the quote train, btw. Bolded is the part I was responding to. |
Yeah, I originally responded to the post you deleted, then I saw you trimmed the quote train, deleted my post and quoted your edited post, so we're on the same page there  .
But anyways, the broader scenario I'm referring to, which I'm not sure you caught, is a hypothetical Deng/Clarkson/Nance/Zubac/pick for Wade trade. If the 4.2 number includes stretching Deng (and not trading him for an expiring), am I wrong to assume that that would get us all the way to 2 max slots? Only salaries on the books would be Lonzo, BI, Randle (cap hold), Kuzma, and Hart. |
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iimarshon
Star Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 2673
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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Where am I wrong or who am I forgetting here?
36 - LEBRON
31 - GEORGE
12 - RANDLE (cap hold)
6.2 - BALL
5.5 - INGRAM
1.4 - NANCE
1.4 - KUZMA
0.8 - BRYANT
1.3 - HART
= 95.5
(Deng, Clarkson, Zubac traded)
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iimarshon
Star Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 2673
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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If we're over the cap next year do we get MLE?
Or no cos we'd be under cap before signing James and George?
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iimarshon
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Posts: 2673
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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I'd love if we could do...
• Deng, Zubac, 1st RD, 2nd RD for salary relief (Suns, Bulls, Hawks or Nets maybe?)
• Clarkson for two 2nd Rounders (especially if he has a good season)
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epak
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| iimarshon wrote: | Where am I wrong or who am I forgetting here?
36 - LEBRON
31 - GEORGE
12 - RANDLE (cap hold)
6.2 - BALL
5.5 - INGRAM
1.4 - NANCE
1.4 - KUZMA
0.8 - BRYANT
1.3 - HART
= 95.5
(Deng, Clarkson, Zubac traded) |
Westbrook 
Who do you want to play starting center?
Also, for 2018-19, the numbers are:
7.5 Lonzo
5.8 Ingram
2.3 Larry
1.7 Kuzma
1.7 Hart
1.4 Bryant |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| iimarshon wrote: | If we're over the cap next year do we get MLE?
Or no cos we'd be under cap before signing James and George? |
Only room exception most likely. We aren't operating as an over the cap team.
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From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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greenfrog
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Posts: 36081
Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| AY2043 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | AY2043 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | AY2043 wrote: | | I think that's the main reason for our difference of opinions on this one. Like I said, we have to trade him or not re-sign Randle in order to create 2 maxes. And personally, I'd rather keep Randle's cap hold (about 12 mil), trade Clarkson, and then go over the cap to sign Randle after signing 2 maxes. |
They have to do both to get a $36m (Lebron) and a $31 (George) max, unless you have some other plan to shave off $4.2m, and this is already assuming that Thomas Bryant is not picked up. |
Is that number including trading Zubac and Nance in a Deng salary dump? I'm far from 100% clear on our cap situation. Just know we have to clear a few extra mil even after dumping Deng. |
Their salaries combined only reach $3.8. Nance is a bargain at $2.3 anyway. I don't see the logic in moving him.
That 4.2 number, btw, is also including the savings from stretching Deng.
EDIT: I screwed up trimming the quote train, btw. Bolded is the part I was responding to. |
Yeah, I originally responded to the post you deleted, then I saw you trimmed the quote train, deleted my post and quoted your edited post, so we're on the same page there .
But anyways, the broader scenario I'm referring to, which I'm not sure you caught, is a hypothetical Deng/Clarkson/Nance/Zubac/pick for Wade trade. If the 4.2 number includes stretching Deng (and not trading him for an expiring), am I wrong to assume that that would get us all the way to 2 max slots? Only salaries on the books would be Lonzo, BI, Randle (cap hold), Kuzma, and Hart. |
That's $31.5m in salary for just $23.8m this season in that trade. It's actually not technically possible because we wouldn't be taking enough salary back. Chicago would have to throw in some other contracts. But yeah, clearing that much salary I guess would be closer to the 3-max strategy. It's certainly enough for two.
Last edited by greenfrog on Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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iimarshon
Star Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 2673
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | iimarshon wrote: | Where am I wrong or who am I forgetting here?
36 - LEBRON
31 - GEORGE
12 - RANDLE (cap hold)
6.2 - BALL
5.5 - INGRAM
1.4 - NANCE
1.4 - KUZMA
0.8 - BRYANT
1.3 - HART
= 95.5
(Deng, Clarkson, Zubac traded) |
Westbrook
Who do you want to play starting center?
Also, for 2018-19, the numbers are:
7.5 Lonzo
5.8 Ingram
2.3 Larry
1.7 Kuzma
1.7 Hart
1.4 Bryant |
So essentially ~ 99-100m for the above.
Plus factor in around 1m for our 2nd round pick
Then we'd go over the cap to max Randle
And we'd have room exception and vet mins to fill out the rest yeah?
Randle can play C with a vet like Bogut backing up
Plus Bryant and Nance
Or we use room exception on a vet big
Ball
George / Hart
Ingram / Kuzma
James / Nance
Randle / Bogut / Bryant
Plus exception, second round pick and vet min.
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trablos
Star Player
Joined: 10 May 2017
Posts: 3020
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Someone made a funny compliment we payed Moz 64M while Bogut the better player is getting 2M shows you what a great FO we have now. |
Well the right comparison would be 18m vs 2m but yeah I agree with the idea. |
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Inspector Gadget
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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46684
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| trablos wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Someone made a funny compliment we payed Moz 64M while Bogut the better player is getting 2M shows you what a great FO we have now. |
Well the right comparison would be 18m vs 2m but yeah I agree with the idea. |
No doubt. it makes sense and while I admit I wanted to give Mozgov a chance to prove himself and I supported him while he was here but you gotta feel good if you are a Laker fan when we get a better player in Bogut for 2M compared to Moz who got the massive contract. |
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unleasHell
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 11591
Location: Stay Thirsty my Friends
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| defense wrote: | | krisobe wrote: | DEATH LINEUP OF....
BALL
KCP
INGRAM
KUZMA
BOGUT
4 players that can shoot the 3, and one player for defense n rebounds. |
KCP- mediocre shooter
Ingram- terrible shooter
Ball/Kuzma- has not played a single NBA game
I like your optimism |
funny, but I gotta agree...!
_________________
“Always remember... Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots.” |
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kevin61
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 1332
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Mamba Mentality wrote: | | kevin61 wrote: | | I'm a Zubac fan. This could hurt his confidence or motivate him. I guess we'll see how it all plays out. |
Think of it this way... If this hurts his confidence, then he shouldn't be in the pros. Period. He has to get motivated by this and improve his game. On the flip side, I don't think this signing is any reflection on Zubac. I think the FO just wants to make sure we have a decent backup big man in case an injury occurs. Zubac is too raw to start at center for us. Plus, we all know how bad the injury bug hurt us EVERY year since 2013. |
I am thinking about it that way. His future is up to him. I just he he can get the minutes. |
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kevin61
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 1332
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="greenfrog"] | AY2043 wrote: | I think that's the main reason for our difference of opinions on this one. Like I said, we have to trade him or not re-sign Randle in order to create 2 maxes. And personally, I'd rather keep Randle's cap hold (about 12 mil), trade Clarkson, and then go over the cap to sign Randle after signing 2 maxes. /quote]
They have to do both to get a $36m (Lebron) and a $31 (George) max, unless you have some other plan to shave off $4.2m, and this is already assuming that Thomas Bryant is not picked up. |
They don't need every penny to get 2 max guys, it's been discussed to death around here. |
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Inspector Gadget
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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46684
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Saw a few clips of Bogut owning Howard, and the signing got me more pumped up, he is gonna help us as long as he stays healthy. |
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ToastedMuffins
Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 Apr 2016
Posts: 589
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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I'll never understand some of the criticism fans are throwing at this signing.
He's signed for the veteran minimum on a one year deal preserving both our Room Exception and our sacred 2018 cap space.
Worst case scenario, he's clearly washed up or suffers a season-ending injury early on in which case the Lakers cut him and nothing of value is lost.
Most likely scenario is he serves as a more winning oriented option for backup center minutes over Zubac while providing the entire team with championship experience and Zu with great veteran mentorship.
Best case scenario, Bogut returns to his Golden State All-NBA defensive team form providing the Lakers with an extremely valuable trade chip at the trade deadline or another premier free agent with which to exceed the salary cap in 2018 through bird rights.
It seems pretty ironic that some fans are complaining that Bogut is either inevitably going to get hurt, or that he's stealing valuable minutes away from Zubac, as if one doesn't automatically contradict the other. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144474
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| iimarshon wrote: | Where am I wrong or who am I forgetting here?
36 - LEBRON
31 - GEORGE
12 - RANDLE (cap hold)
6.2 - BALL
5.5 - INGRAM
1.4 - NANCE
1.4 - KUZMA
0.8 - BRYANT
1.3 - HART
= 95.5
(Deng, Clarkson, Zubac traded) |
3 unused cap slots
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144474
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | iimarshon wrote: | If we're over the cap next year do we get MLE?
Or no cos we'd be under cap before signing James and George? |
Only room exception most likely. We aren't operating as an over the cap team. |
Right, because the MLE would count against our cap
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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AY2043
Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Posts: 10621
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | AY2043 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | AY2043 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | AY2043 wrote: | | I think that's the main reason for our difference of opinions on this one. Like I said, we have to trade him or not re-sign Randle in order to create 2 maxes. And personally, I'd rather keep Randle's cap hold (about 12 mil), trade Clarkson, and then go over the cap to sign Randle after signing 2 maxes. |
They have to do both to get a $36m (Lebron) and a $31 (George) max, unless you have some other plan to shave off $4.2m, and this is already assuming that Thomas Bryant is not picked up. |
Is that number including trading Zubac and Nance in a Deng salary dump? I'm far from 100% clear on our cap situation. Just know we have to clear a few extra mil even after dumping Deng. |
Their salaries combined only reach $3.8. Nance is a bargain at $2.3 anyway. I don't see the logic in moving him.
That 4.2 number, btw, is also including the savings from stretching Deng.
EDIT: I screwed up trimming the quote train, btw. Bolded is the part I was responding to. |
Yeah, I originally responded to the post you deleted, then I saw you trimmed the quote train, deleted my post and quoted your edited post, so we're on the same page there .
But anyways, the broader scenario I'm referring to, which I'm not sure you caught, is a hypothetical Deng/Clarkson/Nance/Zubac/pick for Wade trade. If the 4.2 number includes stretching Deng (and not trading him for an expiring), am I wrong to assume that that would get us all the way to 2 max slots? Only salaries on the books would be Lonzo, BI, Randle (cap hold), Kuzma, and Hart. |
That's $31.5m in salary for just $23.8m this season in that trade. It's actually not technically possible because we wouldn't be taking enough salary back. Chicago would have to throw in some other contracts. But yeah, clearing that much salary I guess would be closer to the 3-max strategy. It's certainly enough for two. |
They only have about 65 mil in salary right now, so they're far enough under the cap that they could absorb the extra 8 mil or so. |
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