The Cavs lost money last year? (Laker related)
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kevin61
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:41 pm    Post subject: Re: The Cavs lost money last year? (Laker related)

splashmtn wrote:
Dr. Funkbot wrote:
https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/247446/14-NBA-Teams-Lost-Money-During-16-17-Season

How bad of a businessperson must you be in order to lose money while your team made it to the finals? Either that or Gilbert is using shady accounting. Also note that this report does not include non-basketball revenue.

This is Laker related because you know all of these small market charlatans will be quoting this report while requesting that league hammer the Lakers whenever they can.


The #2 reason for Dan G to cook the books this way is to make sure the next CBA he can get even more money from the larger market teams when it comes to profit sharing.

But the #1 reason for cooking the books, is so that when the new CBA pops up this is the excuse that will be used to shaft the player as usual."well we're not making any money so we need to do X."


Cooking the books is just a platitude with no basis in fact. The players have accountants too, good ones. If it was found to be true the damages the players could get would be enormous.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:46 pm    Post subject:

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:01 pm    Post subject: Re: The Cavs lost money last year? (Laker related)

kevin61 wrote:
Dr. Funkbot wrote:
https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/247446/14-NBA-Teams-Lost-Money-During-16-17-Season

How bad of a businessperson must you be in order to lose money while your team made it to the finals? Either that or Gilbert is using shady accounting. Also note that this report does not include non-basketball revenue.

This is Laker related because you know all of these small market charlatans will be quoting this report while requesting that league hammer the Lakers whenever they can.


This just shows the impossibility of the Warriors sustaining their current roster. 100 million dollar tax bills have to come out of ownerships pockets, there's no team that can sustain that, that was the idea of it.

Ownership isn't making nearly as much as the players on a year to year basis, it's not even close. Ownership makes money on asset appreciation, but it doesn't pay the bills because they aren't allowed to borrow against it.


The Warriors don't hit the repeater tax for 3 seasons, by then they will likely be on the decline. Jerry West gave them 3 more seasons to be dominant.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:24 pm    Post subject: Re: The Cavs lost money last year? (Laker related)

Dr. Funkbot wrote:
https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/247446/14-NBA-Teams-Lost-Money-During-16-17-Season

How bad of a businessperson must you be in order to lose money while your team made it to the finals? Either that or Gilbert is using shady accounting. Also note that this report does not include non-basketball revenue.

This is Laker related because you know all of these small market charlatans will be quoting this report while requesting that league hammer the Lakers whenever they can.


The real money for the owners is in the franchise value appreciation, which only happens when they sell the team and which the players get no part of.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:39 am    Post subject: Re: The Cavs lost money last year? (Laker related)

kevin61 wrote:
Cooking the books is just a platitude with no basis in fact. The players have accountants too, good ones. If it was found to be true the damages the players could get would be enormous.


1. I guess you weren't around during the days of The Big Lockout Thread. The players' accountants did in fact challenge the owners' books.

2. The books for the individual teams are not particularly relevant to the CBA, so the players would not get any damages on that basis. The money is determined by Basketball Related Income, not by the profits and losses of the individual teams.

3. As part of the CBA, the players have the right to audit the books of several teams per year. This is to facilitate negotiations, because the players got pretty ticked off when Stern went on his PR tour telling everyone how much money the teams were losing. The players were not in a position to effectively rebut the PR campaign, because all they had was the financial statements. (Just the same, back in the days of The Big Lockout Thread, we were able to pick apart some of the financial statements just from what was on their face.)
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tlim
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:38 pm    Post subject:

What I'm miffed about is that a lot of the smaller towns also pay a lot less for tickets than people at Laker games pay.

Cavs pay, on average, less than $50 per ticket, while the Laker tickets are more than double that. And yet, they have a 100% home game sales and attendance. So they're leaving gobs of money on the table, especially with Lebron there. Why didn't they up the ticket prices more?

Instead, they want to claim poverty. Jerks.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:21 pm    Post subject: Re: The Cavs lost money last year? (Laker related)

kevin61 wrote:
splashmtn wrote:
Dr. Funkbot wrote:
https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/247446/14-NBA-Teams-Lost-Money-During-16-17-Season

How bad of a businessperson must you be in order to lose money while your team made it to the finals? Either that or Gilbert is using shady accounting. Also note that this report does not include non-basketball revenue.

This is Laker related because you know all of these small market charlatans will be quoting this report while requesting that league hammer the Lakers whenever they can.


The #2 reason for Dan G to cook the books this way is to make sure the next CBA he can get even more money from the larger market teams when it comes to profit sharing.

But the #1 reason for cooking the books, is so that when the new CBA pops up this is the excuse that will be used to shaft the player as usual."well we're not making any money so we need to do X."


Cooking the books is just a platitude with no basis in fact. The players have accountants too, good ones. If it was found to be true the damages the players could get would be enormous.
you do realize companies and billionaires have cooked books for decades. a lot of them have never been caught and some have been caught and dealt with. lets not act like its not something that is done at the highest of money levels.

and for the record. yes the players making millions some make a couple 100 million. they dont make billions like some of these owners. So my billionaire lawyer is probably better than your millionaire lawyer you hooked up with thru basketball. shoot, the team owner probably told the player about a good lawyer when said player was first signed to the team as a rookie. what did you know about business/financial lawyers before entering the nba? nothing. you were not a business person. the owner has been a business person for decades.

and didnt the owners not allow the players union to look into their books during the last lockout? pulling a trump with his taxes move. "i didnt do anything wrong..but you can't check to make sure"
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:11 am    Post subject:

tlim wrote:
What I'm miffed about is that a lot of the smaller towns also pay a lot less for tickets than people at Laker games pay.

Cavs pay, on average, less than $50 per ticket, while the Laker tickets are more than double that. And yet, they have a 100% home game sales and attendance. So they're leaving gobs of money on the table, especially with Lebron there. Why didn't they up the ticket prices more?

Instead, they want to claim poverty. Jerks.


its cleveland. They dont make as much as people do in Los Angeles.
And even beyond that. LA has more millionaires than cleveland by a mile. this means there are a ton of people in Los Angeles that can afford to buy tickets to see a game at staples. where as its mostly going to be working class people trying to get into a cavs game.

if we had less millionaires in L.A. then it would working class trying to get into staples. even though we earn more than most in cleveland. our cost of living is super high so that extra is offset by our bills,rent/mortgage. we would be in the same situation without those extra millionaires living in L.A.
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Omar Little
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:23 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
pmacla wrote:
understand all this "losing money" is a relative term, if they where actually losing money no one would want to own these teams


I disagree, unless you are including the increase in asset value....but beyond that balance sheet item, having an income statement with a net loss (before revenue sharing) is an operating loss.....they had less revenue than expenses.


Well that is a pretty big that given what franchises are selling for. The owner of the rockets turned a seventy mil investment into 2.2 billion.

The larger issue here though is that owners don't buy these things for maximum financial return on operation. The rockets, again, are making fifty mil and sold for 2.2 billion. Thats a little over two percent. No billionaire is looking for that kind of return. You have to factor in the prestige, future sale value, other revenue streams, and use as a tax shelter in many cases.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:27 am    Post subject:

Fwiw, taking tax losses at 35% rate and recouping them in capital gains down the road at a much lower tax rate is a time honored financial trick of the wealthy.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:41 am    Post subject: Re: The Cavs lost money last year? (Laker related)

kevin61 wrote:
splashmtn wrote:
Dr. Funkbot wrote:
https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/247446/14-NBA-Teams-Lost-Money-During-16-17-Season

How bad of a businessperson must you be in order to lose money while your team made it to the finals? Either that or Gilbert is using shady accounting. Also note that this report does not include non-basketball revenue.

This is Laker related because you know all of these small market charlatans will be quoting this report while requesting that league hammer the Lakers whenever they can.


The #2 reason for Dan G to cook the books this way is to make sure the next CBA he can get even more money from the larger market teams when it comes to profit sharing.

But the #1 reason for cooking the books, is so that when the new CBA pops up this is the excuse that will be used to shaft the player as usual."well we're not making any money so we need to do X."


Cooking the books is just a platitude with no basis in fact. The players have accountants too, good ones. If it was found to be true the damages the players could get would be enormous.


The term is a bit misleading, since it historically means illegally falsified books, but the owners have a ton of legal ways of moving their losses around within their business empires for their own tax planning purposes, to name just one item. And importantly, it isn't about whether the players are right kr wrong, it is about the average fan nit being able to understand the complexities, and the fact that fans side with owners (because the players are millionaires playing a child's game), and the fact that owners can outlast players.
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Omar Little
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:47 am    Post subject: Re: The Cavs lost money last year? (Laker related)

kevin61 wrote:
Dr. Funkbot wrote:
https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/247446/14-NBA-Teams-Lost-Money-During-16-17-Season

How bad of a businessperson must you be in order to lose money while your team made it to the finals? Either that or Gilbert is using shady accounting. Also note that this report does not include non-basketball revenue.

This is Laker related because you know all of these small market charlatans will be quoting this report while requesting that league hammer the Lakers whenever they can.


This just shows the impossibility of the Warriors sustaining their current roster. 100 million dollar tax bills have to come out of ownerships pockets, there's no team that can sustain that, that was the idea of it.

Ownership isn't making nearly as much as the players on a year to year basis, it's not even close. Ownership makes money on asset appreciation, but it doesn't pay the bills because they aren't allowed to borrow against it.


The warriors netted 92 million last year, with one of the worst tv deals, and before their new personal seat licenses deal. Along with being obscenely wealthy and thus able to sustain real losses if they want, the ownership has quite a war chest being built to sustain an extended run.

The ownership isn't making as much as the players stuff has been killed repeatedly. The players have a perishable, declining asset (themselves), while the owners have a durable, appreciating asset, even before taking any annual money out. And yes they've and do borrow against the value of their asset.
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