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Gatekeeper
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KeepItRealOrElse
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Joined: 11 Oct 2012
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 Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:20 am Post subject: |
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| oldlakerfan wrote: | I love how we can be so critical of a guy who is working his butt off to get better. We should hope everyone works as hard as Randle is.
It take practice, hard work and dedication plus a lot of God given talent to become a great basketball player. Well God gave him great talent and his is doing everything possible to take the gifts God gave him and maximize them by patiently working hard to refine his skills.
You can already see some results from his hard work and this season he will take his game to another level. But that won't be the end of it but the beginning of the making of a superstar. He will be a great defender, great passer, great rebounder, great shooter who is elite in transition on a team that focuses on the transition game. He will be a leader and a force within the league.
He will be an example that others will try an emulate. He will help lead this team to greatness with Ball and BI and will be compared to Lebron not Green.
But without practice and more practice and dedication to improving that is on par with how Kobe practiced. Kobe was great because of God given talent and hard work in practice. All Randle needs now is a nickname. |
who is being critical of him? I'm simply giving the other logical side/dynamic. Hard work is nothing but commendable.. Results are still not guaranteed, though. That's just a fact. |
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True Lakers Fan
Starting Rotation
Joined: 28 Oct 2011
Posts: 917
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:12 am Post subject: |
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If he can knock down those corner 3's consistently. It's gonna leave so many options in the pick and pop
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lakersboy
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Joined: 20 Jul 2006
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Location: Left coast
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | lakersboy wrote: | 1st, can we please stop with the "this is like Sasha being a great shooter in practice (even though there was no proof)" narative? If he was that good, why couldn't it be seen during warmups?
Julius has been doing this all summer with videos and witness reports of 25 to 30+ consecutive 3's. He shoots 1000 a day and looks mighty comfortable now, yet doubting Thomases are everywhere. In the video he's sweaty and has every reason to be fatigued. This former bad shooter (2 years ago) has turned into a good one. Julius' outside shooting will without a doubt translate in games.
Julius with jump shot will look like Kuzma did in July, only stronger and with a better handle.
He's going to be significantly improved, something even doubters in denial will have to acknowledge. The Lakers would be fools to let him walk away. |
Hate (or maybe love) always being this guy, but, there's a crap ton of good practice shooters, man. Go to Jevel Mcgees insta, he doesn't miss 3s. Zach Lowe has tweeted that Kris Humphries went 70/85 with him watching. Mozgov had that practice video last year. Aaron Gordon doesn't miss in his videos. Any LGer who was good in HS, could train for a month and shoot 40/55 on 3s shooting around.. I think most NBA players shoot really well in an empty gym.
His shot is muchhhh better than it was before. But we still have to wait and see if it translates well in games. |
You're comparing a quick, athletic, and strong pf with a very good handle, to Mcgee and Humphries and guys who can make a lot of shots outside. Randle's outside shot and ball handling will make him a huge threat anytime he has the ball. By comparing him to someone shooting 40-55 3's tells me you and I aren't looking at or judging the same thing. He's hitting the back of the rim or all net on nearly every shot. That's not something any shooter does. Percentages drop during games, but Jordan did it, Curry does it on 3's, and few others do that consistently. Bottom line is Julius has the touch. Ireland reported last month that Julius was making up to 35 straight. Far different from 40 out of 55. If you saw his multiple mid range shooting videos, virtually every shot is back rim or all net. 2 feet, 1 foot fall away, wrong direction, etc.
I'm that avg LG'er who focused volume shooting and it made a difference, but unlike bigs you mentioned, I don't have to wait for a coach to give me a green light. I can camp outside with no assignment to set screens, crash boards, and leave most shots for the star of my team.
Randle, unlike the guys you mentioned, will have a green light. Most are saying you need to wait and see if it translates. I've seen all I need to see and I won't be surprised when it does.
I had the same discussion when I saw Ariza warmup before he got his green light the next season. |
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22
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Joined: 05 Apr 2013
Posts: 17064
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| oldlakerfan wrote: | I love how we can be so critical of a guy who is working his butt off to get better. We should hope everyone works as hard as Randle is.
It take practice, hard work and dedication plus a lot of God given talent to become a great basketball player. Well God gave him great talent and his is doing everything possible to take the gifts God gave him and maximize them by patiently working hard to refine his skills.
You can already see some results from his hard work and this season he will take his game to another level. But that won't be the end of it but the beginning of the making of a superstar. He will be a great defender, great passer, great rebounder, great shooter who is elite in transition on a team that focuses on the transition game. He will be a leader and a force within the league.
He will be an example that others will try an emulate. He will help lead this team to greatness with Ball and BI and will be compared to Lebron not Green.
But without practice and more practice and dedication to improving that is on par with how Kobe practiced. Kobe was great because of God given talent and hard work in practice. All Randle needs now is a nickname. |
It's Don Julio  |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:50 am Post subject: |
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| lakersboy wrote: | | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | lakersboy wrote: | 1st, can we please stop with the "this is like Sasha being a great shooter in practice (even though there was no proof)" narative? If he was that good, why couldn't it be seen during warmups?
Julius has been doing this all summer with videos and witness reports of 25 to 30+ consecutive 3's. He shoots 1000 a day and looks mighty comfortable now, yet doubting Thomases are everywhere. In the video he's sweaty and has every reason to be fatigued. This former bad shooter (2 years ago) has turned into a good one. Julius' outside shooting will without a doubt translate in games.
Julius with jump shot will look like Kuzma did in July, only stronger and with a better handle.
He's going to be significantly improved, something even doubters in denial will have to acknowledge. The Lakers would be fools to let him walk away. |
Hate (or maybe love) always being this guy, but, there's a crap ton of good practice shooters, man. Go to Jevel Mcgees insta, he doesn't miss 3s. Zach Lowe has tweeted that Kris Humphries went 70/85 with him watching. Mozgov had that practice video last year. Aaron Gordon doesn't miss in his videos. Any LGer who was good in HS, could train for a month and shoot 40/55 on 3s shooting around.. I think most NBA players shoot really well in an empty gym.
His shot is muchhhh better than it was before. But we still have to wait and see if it translates well in games. |
You're comparing a quick, athletic, and strong pf with a very good handle, to Mcgee and Humphries and guys who can make a lot of shots outside. Randle's outside shot and ball handling will make him a huge threat anytime he has the ball. By comparing him to someone shooting 40-55 3's tells me you and I aren't looking at or judging the same thing. He's hitting the back of the rim or all net on nearly every shot. That's not something any shooter does. Percentages drop during games, but Jordan did it, Curry does it on 3's, and few others do that consistently. Bottom line is Julius has the touch. Ireland reported last month that Julius was making up to 35 straight. Far different from 40 out of 55. If you saw his multiple mid range shooting videos, virtually every shot is back rim or all net. 2 feet, 1 foot fall away, wrong direction, etc.
I'm that avg LG'er who focused volume shooting and it made a difference, but unlike bigs you mentioned, I don't have to wait for a coach to give me a green light. I can camp outside with no assignment to set screens, crash boards, and leave most shots for the star of my team.
Randle, unlike the guys you mentioned, will have a green light. Most are saying you need to wait and see if it translates. I've seen all I need to see and I won't be surprised when it does.
I had the same discussion when I saw Ariza warmup before he got his green light the next season. |
You've seen all you need to see?
Isn't that what you said last year when you said we were a playoff team?
Let's see how it plays out with Julius and his shooting. The instagram videos are nice but mean nothing if it doesn't translate on the court. Nothing wrong with people being cautiously optimistic seeing as every year we are hearing some kind of hype on one of our players like passing savant, etc |
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Ziggy
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Joined: 10 Feb 2005
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| As a guy on Team Trade Randle, I'm happy to see this. Was hoping he'd be moved before the season started, but once the season starts I'll be rooting for him. He should be getting a lot of those corner 3's from setting picks for Lonzo on the perimeter. |
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lakersboy
Star Player
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 8518
Location: Left coast
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | lakersboy wrote: | | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | lakersboy wrote: | 1st, can we please stop with the "this is like Sasha being a great shooter in practice (even though there was no proof)" narative? If he was that good, why couldn't it be seen during warmups?
Julius has been doing this all summer with videos and witness reports of 25 to 30+ consecutive 3's. He shoots 1000 a day and looks mighty comfortable now, yet doubting Thomases are everywhere. In the video he's sweaty and has every reason to be fatigued. This former bad shooter (2 years ago) has turned into a good one. Julius' outside shooting will without a doubt translate in games.
Julius with jump shot will look like Kuzma did in July, only stronger and with a better handle.
He's going to be significantly improved, something even doubters in denial will have to acknowledge. The Lakers would be fools to let him walk away. |
Hate (or maybe love) always being this guy, but, there's a crap ton of good practice shooters, man. Go to Jevel Mcgees insta, he doesn't miss 3s. Zach Lowe has tweeted that Kris Humphries went 70/85 with him watching. Mozgov had that practice video last year. Aaron Gordon doesn't miss in his videos. Any LGer who was good in HS, could train for a month and shoot 40/55 on 3s shooting around.. I think most NBA players shoot really well in an empty gym.
His shot is muchhhh better than it was before. But we still have to wait and see if it translates well in games. |
You're comparing a quick, athletic, and strong pf with a very good handle, to Mcgee and Humphries and guys who can make a lot of shots outside. Randle's outside shot and ball handling will make him a huge threat anytime he has the ball. By comparing him to someone shooting 40-55 3's tells me you and I aren't looking at or judging the same thing. He's hitting the back of the rim or all net on nearly every shot. That's not something any shooter does. Percentages drop during games, but Jordan did it, Curry does it on 3's, and few others do that consistently. Bottom line is Julius has the touch. Ireland reported last month that Julius was making up to 35 straight. Far different from 40 out of 55. If you saw his multiple mid range shooting videos, virtually every shot is back rim or all net. 2 feet, 1 foot fall away, wrong direction, etc.
I'm that avg LG'er who focused volume shooting and it made a difference, but unlike bigs you mentioned, I don't have to wait for a coach to give me a green light. I can camp outside with no assignment to set screens, crash boards, and leave most shots for the star of my team.
Randle, unlike the guys you mentioned, will have a green light. Most are saying you need to wait and see if it translates. I've seen all I need to see and I won't be surprised when it does.
I had the same discussion when I saw Ariza warmup before he got his green light the next season. |
You've seen all you need to see?
Isn't that what you said last year when you said we were a playoff team?
Let's see how it plays out with Julius and his shooting. The instagram videos are nice but mean nothing if it doesn't translate on the court. Nothing wrong with people being cautiously optimistic seeing as every year we are hearing some kind of hype on one of our players like passing savant, etc |
Are you curious if I said that last year or are you just adding a dig that ignored the "If healthy" part of my analysis?
Last year started ok, but fell apart quickly with the first injury (Nance?) when they were 10-10. The circumstances, lineups, and agenda quickly changed. I'm quite certain any claim I made was preceded by "If healthy."
One way to differentiate between hype and reality is a closer analysis.
We all approach the season from different viewpoints and I have to respect that. Be cautious and I'm ok with that. Posters constantly telling me that Julius can't shoot and that he sucks because of past seasons is just foolish imo, because it's deliberately ignoring current evidence of change.
In reference to passing savants, just because some hyped Dlo in college (HE wasn't a passing savant in college), doesn't mean Lonzo should be viewed with skepticism. I saw all the college games before and after Lonzo. I believe like Magic said, that if he got triple doubles in SPL, he'll get them in the NBA, at least some, imo. No other pros did it, so imo, it doesn't matter that all opponents weren't NBA starters. Passing translates at every level and there's no professional defender past or present who stopped a good passer from making good passes. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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I'm just leery of anyone who says anything so definitive based on some Youtube videos. I mean. It's not like people post videos of what an ordinary day looks like. Or an off day. Who knows, maybe JR records all his shooting practices and just posts the ones where he got hot. When the preseason and season starts, we'll see what all of his days look like, against a defender. Hopefully he has more good days than off days and it averages out nicely.
But to say you have seen all you need to see, when you haven't seen it against a defender or during an actual game is as silly as saying one would think a 27 win team would have made the playoffs if healthy. |
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lakersboy
Star Player
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 8518
Location: Left coast
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | I'm just leery of anyone who says anything so definitive based on some Youtube videos. I mean. It's not like people post videos of what an ordinary day looks like. Or an off day. Who knows, maybe JR records all his shooting practices and just posts the ones where he got hot. When the preseason and season starts, we'll see what all of his days look like, against a defender. Hopefully he has more good days than off days and it averages out nicely.
But to say you have seen all you need to see, when you haven't seen it against a defender or during an actual game is as silly as saying one would think a 27 win team would have made the playoffs if healthy. |
Imo, you're leery of the wrong thing. Who cares what website the video is on or who filmed it? The rim is still 10 ft. The videos I don't pay attention to are where a guy makes 1, 2, or 3 in a row and then it cuts to another scene. Nobody claims he makes all his shots, but after working out, he's sweating and therefore somewhat fatigued in all the videos. If anything, chances are he was hotter earlier in each workout when he was fresher. Again, you're not paying attention to what I said. He's hitting all net or back of the rim on nearly every shot. That's Michael and Steph like, it's what he was training to do in at least one video, but it's something few fans appreciate or recognize.
I've played and watched enough basketball to recognize what qualifies as good shooting so I don't need to see it against a defender anymore than I needed to when I opposed fans who said Ariza couldn't shoot after he returned from his foot injury. What I saw in warmups was the same thing he did the next season and from then on. THAT was all I needed to see.
Your point about a 27 win team is completely dishonest. Everyone knows the team tanked, aka trying not to win. Other injuries followed Nance (or whoever the 1st key injury was). They benched their starting center traded their most effective scorer, and now you remember them as a 27 win team after mgmt, to the best of their ability, sabotaged the team's chances to win. The season ended with the 1st injury at 10-10.
Since you think I'm silly, I'll make this offer: If Randle shows that his efforts didn't turn him into a good shooter, I'll make a thread telling everyone on LG how silly I was to judge so quickly and believe otherwise. I don't even want you to offer anything in return. The point is that either I'm that dumb or full of myself, or maybe I know a little bit about what I'm saying. I'll stay quiet on the subject until things start to become apparent. |
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defense
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 39577
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersboy wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | I'm just leery of anyone who says anything so definitive based on some Youtube videos. I mean. It's not like people post videos of what an ordinary day looks like. Or an off day. Who knows, maybe JR records all his shooting practices and just posts the ones where he got hot. When the preseason and season starts, we'll see what all of his days look like, against a defender. Hopefully he has more good days than off days and it averages out nicely.
But to say you have seen all you need to see, when you haven't seen it against a defender or during an actual game is as silly as saying one would think a 27 win team would have made the playoffs if healthy. |
Imo, you're leery of the wrong thing. Who cares what website the video is on or who filmed it? The rim is still 10 ft. The videos I don't pay attention to are where a guy makes 1, 2, or 3 in a row and then it cuts to another scene. Nobody claims he makes all his shots, but after working out, he's sweating and therefore somewhat fatigued in all the videos. If anything, chances are he was hotter earlier in each workout when he was fresher. Again, you're not paying attention to what I said. He's hitting all net or back of the rim on nearly every shot. That's Michael and Steph like, it's what he was training to do in at least one video, but it's something few fans appreciate or recognize.
I've played and watched enough basketball to recognize what qualifies as good shooting so I don't need to see it against a defender anymore than I needed to when I opposed fans who said Ariza couldn't shoot after he returned from his foot injury. What I saw in warmups was the same thing he did the next season and from then on. THAT was all I needed to see.
Your point about a 27 win team is completely dishonest. Everyone knows the team tanked, aka trying not to win. Other injuries followed Nance (or whoever the 1st key injury was). They benched their starting center traded their most effective scorer, and now you remember them as a 27 win team after mgmt, to the best of their ability, sabotaged the team's chances to win. The season ended with the 1st injury at 10-10.
Since you think I'm silly, I'll make this offer: If Randle shows that his efforts didn't turn him into a good shooter, I'll make a thread telling everyone on LG how silly I was to judge so quickly and believe otherwise. I don't even want you to offer anything in return. The point is that either I'm that dumb or full of myself, or maybe I know a little bit about what I'm saying. I'll stay quiet on the subject until things start to become apparent. |
define "good"
33%? 35, 38? |
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MJST
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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At the same time let's break it down here.. the whole "don't get hyped for practice" only seems to be relevant for some players, while getting overhyped for practice is completely fine with others.
If Ingram released a video of him knocking down 20 straight three pointers the forum would go into a frenzy. Let's not kid ourselves on that front.
So how about we get excited for all of our young talent showing out in practice! 
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How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersboy wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | I'm just leery of anyone who says anything so definitive based on some Youtube videos. I mean. It's not like people post videos of what an ordinary day looks like. Or an off day. Who knows, maybe JR records all his shooting practices and just posts the ones where he got hot. When the preseason and season starts, we'll see what all of his days look like, against a defender. Hopefully he has more good days than off days and it averages out nicely.
But to say you have seen all you need to see, when you haven't seen it against a defender or during an actual game is as silly as saying one would think a 27 win team would have made the playoffs if healthy. |
Imo, you're leery of the wrong thing. Who cares what website the video is on or who filmed it? The rim is still 10 ft. The videos I don't pay attention to are where a guy makes 1, 2, or 3 in a row and then it cuts to another scene. Nobody claims he makes all his shots, but after working out, he's sweating and therefore somewhat fatigued in all the videos. If anything, chances are he was hotter earlier in each workout when he was fresher. Again, you're not paying attention to what I said. He's hitting all net or back of the rim on nearly every shot. That's Michael and Steph like, it's what he was training to do in at least one video, but it's something few fans appreciate or recognize.
I've played and watched enough basketball to recognize what qualifies as good shooting so I don't need to see it against a defender anymore than I needed to when I opposed fans who said Ariza couldn't shoot after he returned from his foot injury. What I saw in warmups was the same thing he did the next season and from then on. THAT was all I needed to see.
Your point about a 27 win team is completely dishonest. Everyone knows the team tanked, aka trying not to win. Other injuries followed Nance (or whoever the 1st key injury was). They benched their starting center traded their most effective scorer, and now you remember them as a 27 win team after mgmt, to the best of their ability, sabotaged the team's chances to win. The season ended with the 1st injury at 10-10.
Since you think I'm silly, I'll make this offer: If Randle shows that his efforts didn't turn him into a good shooter, I'll make a thread telling everyone on LG how silly I was to judge so quickly and believe otherwise. I don't even want you to offer anything in return. The point is that either I'm that dumb or full of myself, or maybe I know a little bit about what I'm saying. I'll stay quiet on the subject until things start to become apparent. |
I'm not sure how giving reasons for why we only won 27 games means a prediction of playoffs was right. It was wrong. If you failed to factor in injury, possibility of tanking, playing young players, and so on, then you didn't take all of the gating factors in to account.
I don't want to bet against Julius, I'm not even arguing he will be bad. The videos give a lot of reason for hope. What I'm saying is that given he has yet to be a good shooter in 2 and bit years of professional ball, it's not unreasonable for someome to be cautiously optimistic.
And for someone who has played lots of ball, I'm surprised you don't think there is a huge difference between shooting with no one around you when there is nothing on the line, and playing in an actual game. We have yet to see it on a constant basis in games. I think, like with the playoff prediction, you're not taking everything in to account.
For someone who is backpeddling on their failed prediction, if we were going to make a bet, I'd need something more objective than "good shooter" because I can see it now that one might find a way to argue whatever he does is "good". Give me some worst case scenarios given ALL factors considered. 2.0 3PM on 36% or better? No excuses if he hits 1.9 or 35.9%, if you really believe he will be good, no excuses, what's the bottom line, worst case, no excuses minimum mark in terms of 3PM and 3pt% for you? |
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lakersboy
Star Player
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 8518
Location: Left coast
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| defense wrote: | | lakersboy wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | I'm just leery of anyone who says anything so definitive based on some Youtube videos. I mean. It's not like people post videos of what an ordinary day looks like. Or an off day. Who knows, maybe JR records all his shooting practices and just posts the ones where he got hot. When the preseason and season starts, we'll see what all of his days look like, against a defender. Hopefully he has more good days than off days and it averages out nicely.
But to say you have seen all you need to see, when you haven't seen it against a defender or during an actual game is as silly as saying one would think a 27 win team would have made the playoffs if healthy. |
Imo, you're leery of the wrong thing. Who cares what website the video is on or who filmed it? The rim is still 10 ft. The videos I don't pay attention to are where a guy makes 1, 2, or 3 in a row and then it cuts to another scene. Nobody claims he makes all his shots, but after working out, he's sweating and therefore somewhat fatigued in all the videos. If anything, chances are he was hotter earlier in each workout when he was fresher. Again, you're not paying attention to what I said. He's hitting all net or back of the rim on nearly every shot. That's Michael and Steph like, it's what he was training to do in at least one video, but it's something few fans appreciate or recognize.
I've played and watched enough basketball to recognize what qualifies as good shooting so I don't need to see it against a defender anymore than I needed to when I opposed fans who said Ariza couldn't shoot after he returned from his foot injury. What I saw in warmups was the same thing he did the next season and from then on. THAT was all I needed to see.
Your point about a 27 win team is completely dishonest. Everyone knows the team tanked, aka trying not to win. Other injuries followed Nance (or whoever the 1st key injury was). They benched their starting center traded their most effective scorer, and now you remember them as a 27 win team after mgmt, to the best of their ability, sabotaged the team's chances to win. The season ended with the 1st injury at 10-10.
Since you think I'm silly, I'll make this offer: If Randle shows that his efforts didn't turn him into a good shooter, I'll make a thread telling everyone on LG how silly I was to judge so quickly and believe otherwise. I don't even want you to offer anything in return. The point is that either I'm that dumb or full of myself, or maybe I know a little bit about what I'm saying. I'll stay quiet on the subject until things start to become apparent. |
define "good"
33%? 35, 38? |
The eye test defines good for me, not a random percentage that doesn't take into account full court buzzer beaters. |
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defense
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Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 39577
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersboy wrote: | | defense wrote: | | lakersboy wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | I'm just leery of anyone who says anything so definitive based on some Youtube videos. I mean. It's not like people post videos of what an ordinary day looks like. Or an off day. Who knows, maybe JR records all his shooting practices and just posts the ones where he got hot. When the preseason and season starts, we'll see what all of his days look like, against a defender. Hopefully he has more good days than off days and it averages out nicely.
But to say you have seen all you need to see, when you haven't seen it against a defender or during an actual game is as silly as saying one would think a 27 win team would have made the playoffs if healthy. |
Imo, you're leery of the wrong thing. Who cares what website the video is on or who filmed it? The rim is still 10 ft. The videos I don't pay attention to are where a guy makes 1, 2, or 3 in a row and then it cuts to another scene. Nobody claims he makes all his shots, but after working out, he's sweating and therefore somewhat fatigued in all the videos. If anything, chances are he was hotter earlier in each workout when he was fresher. Again, you're not paying attention to what I said. He's hitting all net or back of the rim on nearly every shot. That's Michael and Steph like, it's what he was training to do in at least one video, but it's something few fans appreciate or recognize.
I've played and watched enough basketball to recognize what qualifies as good shooting so I don't need to see it against a defender anymore than I needed to when I opposed fans who said Ariza couldn't shoot after he returned from his foot injury. What I saw in warmups was the same thing he did the next season and from then on. THAT was all I needed to see.
Your point about a 27 win team is completely dishonest. Everyone knows the team tanked, aka trying not to win. Other injuries followed Nance (or whoever the 1st key injury was). They benched their starting center traded their most effective scorer, and now you remember them as a 27 win team after mgmt, to the best of their ability, sabotaged the team's chances to win. The season ended with the 1st injury at 10-10.
Since you think I'm silly, I'll make this offer: If Randle shows that his efforts didn't turn him into a good shooter, I'll make a thread telling everyone on LG how silly I was to judge so quickly and believe otherwise. I don't even want you to offer anything in return. The point is that either I'm that dumb or full of myself, or maybe I know a little bit about what I'm saying. I'll stay quiet on the subject until things start to become apparent. |
define "good"
33%? 35, 38? |
The eye test defines good for me, not a random percentage that doesn't take into account full court buzzer beaters. |
I kinda figured that. That's why I asked. Ringfinger already said what I was thinking though. |
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Car54
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Aug 2005
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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I'd be happy with 5 attempts a game and 33% hit clip. He would make things tough on other teams with him and Brook draining 3s off of Lonzo passes
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lakersboy
Star Player
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 8518
Location: Left coast
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | lakersboy wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | I'm just leery of anyone who says anything so definitive based on some Youtube videos. I mean. It's not like people post videos of what an ordinary day looks like. Or an off day. Who knows, maybe JR records all his shooting practices and just posts the ones where he got hot. When the preseason and season starts, we'll see what all of his days look like, against a defender. Hopefully he has more good days than off days and it averages out nicely.
But to say you have seen all you need to see, when you haven't seen it against a defender or during an actual game is as silly as saying one would think a 27 win team would have made the playoffs if healthy. |
Imo, you're leery of the wrong thing. Who cares what website the video is on or who filmed it? The rim is still 10 ft. The videos I don't pay attention to are where a guy makes 1, 2, or 3 in a row and then it cuts to another scene. Nobody claims he makes all his shots, but after working out, he's sweating and therefore somewhat fatigued in all the videos. If anything, chances are he was hotter earlier in each workout when he was fresher. Again, you're not paying attention to what I said. He's hitting all net or back of the rim on nearly every shot. That's Michael and Steph like, it's what he was training to do in at least one video, but it's something few fans appreciate or recognize.
I've played and watched enough basketball to recognize what qualifies as good shooting so I don't need to see it against a defender anymore than I needed to when I opposed fans who said Ariza couldn't shoot after he returned from his foot injury. What I saw in warmups was the same thing he did the next season and from then on. THAT was all I needed to see.
Your point about a 27 win team is completely dishonest. Everyone knows the team tanked, aka trying not to win. Other injuries followed Nance (or whoever the 1st key injury was). They benched their starting center traded their most effective scorer, and now you remember them as a 27 win team after mgmt, to the best of their ability, sabotaged the team's chances to win. The season ended with the 1st injury at 10-10.
Since you think I'm silly, I'll make this offer: If Randle shows that his efforts didn't turn him into a good shooter, I'll make a thread telling everyone on LG how silly I was to judge so quickly and believe otherwise. I don't even want you to offer anything in return. The point is that either I'm that dumb or full of myself, or maybe I know a little bit about what I'm saying. I'll stay quiet on the subject until things start to become apparent. |
I'm not sure how giving reasons for why we only won 27 games means a prediction of playoffs was right. It was wrong. If you failed to factor in injury, possibility of tanking, playing young players, and so on, then you didn't take all of the gating factors in to account.
I don't want to bet against Julius, I'm not even arguing he will be bad.
And for someone who has played lots of ball, I'm surprised you don't think there is a huge difference between shooting with no one around you when there is nothing on the line, and playing in an actual game.
For someone who is backpeddling on their failed prediction, if we were going to make a bet, I'd need something more objective than "good shooter" |
1) I'm not sure how many times I have to say that beyond any doubt, I did say "barring injury"...imo, They can make the playoffs.
2) You don't have to tell me what you're arguing. It's clear that you don't think I have enough information to call him a good shooter. I say I do and if he proves to be one, you can't say I was guessing.
3) As a shooter, I don't see a hand in my face. I focus on the rim even more when I'm guarded. In Randle's case, I specifically said let's not pretend people are playing lockdown defense on him at the 3 pt line. If he's left open he's going to be making the shots and ultimately teams will try to chase him off the 3pt line if possible.
4) I don't understand why I have to keep re-explaining things I previosly said clearly already. It's not a bet, it's an offer. The terms are mine. Feel free never to agree with me, but you won't find me lying, conveniently leaving out facts, or misrepresenting the truth. Nothing I post on LG misrepresents the truth. Feel free to fact check that.
In the end, the way other teams play him will indicate if they think he's a good shooter. If he sucks like people say, teams will invite him to shoot. If he doesn't and is actually good, they'll guard him outside with a sense of urgency. |
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ringfinger
Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| defense wrote: | | lakersboy wrote: | | defense wrote: | | lakersboy wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | I'm just leery of anyone who says anything so definitive based on some Youtube videos. I mean. It's not like people post videos of what an ordinary day looks like. Or an off day. Who knows, maybe JR records all his shooting practices and just posts the ones where he got hot. When the preseason and season starts, we'll see what all of his days look like, against a defender. Hopefully he has more good days than off days and it averages out nicely.
But to say you have seen all you need to see, when you haven't seen it against a defender or during an actual game is as silly as saying one would think a 27 win team would have made the playoffs if healthy. |
Imo, you're leery of the wrong thing. Who cares what website the video is on or who filmed it? The rim is still 10 ft. The videos I don't pay attention to are where a guy makes 1, 2, or 3 in a row and then it cuts to another scene. Nobody claims he makes all his shots, but after working out, he's sweating and therefore somewhat fatigued in all the videos. If anything, chances are he was hotter earlier in each workout when he was fresher. Again, you're not paying attention to what I said. He's hitting all net or back of the rim on nearly every shot. That's Michael and Steph like, it's what he was training to do in at least one video, but it's something few fans appreciate or recognize.
I've played and watched enough basketball to recognize what qualifies as good shooting so I don't need to see it against a defender anymore than I needed to when I opposed fans who said Ariza couldn't shoot after he returned from his foot injury. What I saw in warmups was the same thing he did the next season and from then on. THAT was all I needed to see.
Your point about a 27 win team is completely dishonest. Everyone knows the team tanked, aka trying not to win. Other injuries followed Nance (or whoever the 1st key injury was). They benched their starting center traded their most effective scorer, and now you remember them as a 27 win team after mgmt, to the best of their ability, sabotaged the team's chances to win. The season ended with the 1st injury at 10-10.
Since you think I'm silly, I'll make this offer: If Randle shows that his efforts didn't turn him into a good shooter, I'll make a thread telling everyone on LG how silly I was to judge so quickly and believe otherwise. I don't even want you to offer anything in return. The point is that either I'm that dumb or full of myself, or maybe I know a little bit about what I'm saying. I'll stay quiet on the subject until things start to become apparent. |
define "good"
33%? 35, 38? |
The eye test defines good for me, not a random percentage that doesn't take into account full court buzzer beaters. |
I kinda figured that. That's why I asked. Ringfinger already said what I was thinking though. |
Yeah and that is why this conversation is now pointless. People want to make claims as if they mean something. But they mean nothing when they come loaded with cop outs.
"Barring injury" well, every team will have at least 1 guy miss at least 1 game so there's the excuse. "Eye test" is becoming a more common one. I mean you literally cannot ever be wrong if the condition is that you simply have to claim you see whatever it is you see.
I mean, JR is already a good shooter to lakersboy, he has seen enough. So it won't matter if JR misses every 3 he takes since he has already passed the eye test. It's like pretending to make a bold claim but it's not at all.
So and so will be MVP. And then when he's not, I'll say he was my MVP. I was right! |
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dcarter4kobe
Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 17687
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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3rd year in a row we have had this story line going into the year. Hopefully it translates this season.
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"He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
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MJST
Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26409
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| dcarter4kobe wrote: | | 3rd year in a row we have had this story line going into the year. |
Not really.
Only really the season before this one was his jumpshot a subject of contention as he wasn't able to really work on that much when he was rehabbing after his rookie season.
Third straight off-season? Maybe if he wasn't injured.
The only off-seasons where his jumper was a subject of him trying to improve it was last off-season where he'd changed his jumpshot initially and was in the early stages of developing it, and the following season(last season) he showed some improvement with it, that can't be denied. And this off-season where he seems to be actively training his three point shots as well as his conditioning to another level.
You act like there was dozens videos floating all around the internet of Randle draining and splashing threes, off the hop, nailing turnarounds, and using his right hand in action with ease and consistency last off-season. There wasn't. There was videos where he was rehabbing and doing around the world drills with threes two off-seasons ago at a measured pace.
But last off-season we didn't see much of his off-season work aside from the times he ran the dunes and what we'd read about him changing his jumper slightly and trying to start improvement on it.
THIS off-season is very different, it's the first one we've actually got an active window into what Jules is doing WITH significant focus on his jumper. Not just that but he's stroking them with confidence and non hesitation and it's much more fluid.
So no, there weren't three off-seasons of 10 videos of Randle actively working on his jumper and his right hand. We heard murmurs of it and James talked about starting to develop it, but that was mostly it.
THIS off-season is where we actually got an active window into how his progression has been and it's night and day compared to the last 2 off-seasons he's had.
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How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
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Last edited by MJST on Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:40 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144475
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| dcarter4kobe wrote: | | 3rd year in a row we have had this story line going into the year. Hopefully it translates this season. |
We heard that Randle improved his 3 point shooting his first full season after breaking his leg and not being able to practice? I don’t think so.
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lakersboy
Star Player
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 8518
Location: Left coast
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | defense wrote: | | lakersboy wrote: | | defense wrote: | | lakersboy wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | I'm just leery of anyone who says anything so definitive based on some Youtube videos. I mean. It's not like people post videos of what an ordinary day looks like. Or an off day. Who knows, maybe JR records all his shooting practices and just posts the ones where he got hot. When the preseason and season starts, we'll see what all of his days look like, against a defender. Hopefully he has more good days than off days and it averages out nicely.
But to say you have seen all you need to see, when you haven't seen it against a defender or during an actual game is as silly as saying one would think a 27 win team would have made the playoffs if healthy. |
Imo, you're leery of the wrong thing. Who cares what website the video is on or who filmed it? The rim is still 10 ft. The videos I don't pay attention to are where a guy makes 1, 2, or 3 in a row and then it cuts to another scene. Nobody claims he makes all his shots, but after working out, he's sweating and therefore somewhat fatigued in all the videos. If anything, chances are he was hotter earlier in each workout when he was fresher. Again, you're not paying attention to what I said. He's hitting all net or back of the rim on nearly every shot. That's Michael and Steph like, it's what he was training to do in at least one video, but it's something few fans appreciate or recognize.
I've played and watched enough basketball to recognize what qualifies as good shooting so I don't need to see it against a defender anymore than I needed to when I opposed fans who said Ariza couldn't shoot after he returned from his foot injury. What I saw in warmups was the same thing he did the next season and from then on. THAT was all I needed to see.
Your point about a 27 win team is completely dishonest. Everyone knows the team tanked, aka trying not to win. Other injuries followed Nance (or whoever the 1st key injury was). They benched their starting center traded their most effective scorer, and now you remember them as a 27 win team after mgmt, to the best of their ability, sabotaged the team's chances to win. The season ended with the 1st injury at 10-10.
Since you think I'm silly, I'll make this offer: If Randle shows that his efforts didn't turn him into a good shooter, I'll make a thread telling everyone on LG how silly I was to judge so quickly and believe otherwise. I don't even want you to offer anything in return. The point is that either I'm that dumb or full of myself, or maybe I know a little bit about what I'm saying. I'll stay quiet on the subject until things start to become apparent. |
define "good"
33%? 35, 38? |
The eye test defines good for me, not a random percentage that doesn't take into account full court buzzer beaters. |
I kinda figured that. That's why I asked. Ringfinger already said what I was thinking though. |
Yeah and that is why this conversation is now pointless. People want to make claims as if they mean something. But they mean nothing when they come loaded with cop outs.
"Barring injury" well, every team will have at least 1 guy miss at least 1 game so there's the excuse. "Eye test" is becoming a more common one. I mean you literally cannot ever be wrong if the condition is that you simply have to claim you see whatever it is you see.
I mean, JR is already a good shooter to lakersboy, he has seen enough. So it won't matter if JR misses every 3 he takes since he has already passed the eye test. It's like pretending to make a bold claim but it's not at all.
So and so will be MVP. And then when he's not, I'll say he was my MVP. I was right! |
And when you and others are forced to acknowledge he's a good shooter, I wont hold my breath waiting for you to admit it. Have a good day. |
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MJST
Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26409
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: |
Yeah and that is why this conversation is now pointless. People want to make claims as if they mean something. But they mean nothing when they come loaded with cop outs.
"Barring injury" well, every team will have at least 1 guy miss at least 1 game so there's the excuse. "Eye test" is becoming a more common one. I mean you literally cannot ever be wrong if the condition is that you simply have to claim you see whatever it is you see.
I mean, JR is already a good shooter to lakersboy, he has seen enough. So it won't matter if JR misses every 3 he takes since he has already passed the eye test. It's like pretending to make a bold claim but it's not at all.
So and so will be MVP. And then when he's not, I'll say he was my MVP. I was right! |
Except when people bring up the stats and show how Jules has improved across the board as a shooter and tear down peoples arguments that still live in the past of his rookie season.
They decide to ignore it and go with the "eye test" of Randle's rookie season, and keep on going to it as if it wasn't two seasons ago.
Heck you can post up 5 videos of Julius on one page shooting jumpers, working on his right hand, going off the dribble and on the very next page you got somebody saying "Well I need evidence Julius is working on his jumpshot."
-_-
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How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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lakersboy
Star Player
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 8518
Location: Left coast
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| defense wrote: | | lakersboy wrote: | | defense wrote: | | lakersboy wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | I'm just leery of anyone who says anything so definitive based on some Youtube videos. I mean. It's not like people post videos of what an ordinary day looks like. Or an off day. Who knows, maybe JR records all his shooting practices and just posts the ones where he got hot. When the preseason and season starts, we'll see what all of his days look like, against a defender. Hopefully he has more good days than off days and it averages out nicely.
But to say you have seen all you need to see, when you haven't seen it against a defender or during an actual game is as silly as saying one would think a 27 win team would have made the playoffs if healthy. |
Imo, you're leery of the wrong thing. Who cares what website the video is on or who filmed it? The rim is still 10 ft. The videos I don't pay attention to are where a guy makes 1, 2, or 3 in a row and then it cuts to another scene. Nobody claims he makes all his shots, but after working out, he's sweating and therefore somewhat fatigued in all the videos. If anything, chances are he was hotter earlier in each workout when he was fresher. Again, you're not paying attention to what I said. He's hitting all net or back of the rim on nearly every shot. That's Michael and Steph like, it's what he was training to do in at least one video, but it's something few fans appreciate or recognize.
I've played and watched enough basketball to recognize what qualifies as good shooting so I don't need to see it against a defender anymore than I needed to when I opposed fans who said Ariza couldn't shoot after he returned from his foot injury. What I saw in warmups was the same thing he did the next season and from then on. THAT was all I needed to see.
Your point about a 27 win team is completely dishonest. Everyone knows the team tanked, aka trying not to win. Other injuries followed Nance (or whoever the 1st key injury was). They benched their starting center traded their most effective scorer, and now you remember them as a 27 win team after mgmt, to the best of their ability, sabotaged the team's chances to win. The season ended with the 1st injury at 10-10.
Since you think I'm silly, I'll make this offer: If Randle shows that his efforts didn't turn him into a good shooter, I'll make a thread telling everyone on LG how silly I was to judge so quickly and believe otherwise. I don't even want you to offer anything in return. The point is that either I'm that dumb or full of myself, or maybe I know a little bit about what I'm saying. I'll stay quiet on the subject until things start to become apparent. |
define "good"
33%? 35, 38? |
The eye test defines good for me, not a random percentage that doesn't take into account full court buzzer beaters. |
I kinda figured that. That's why I asked. Ringfinger already said what I was thinking though. |
Think what you want. I'm a man of my word. |
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ringfinger
Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: |
Yeah and that is why this conversation is now pointless. People want to make claims as if they mean something. But they mean nothing when they come loaded with cop outs.
"Barring injury" well, every team will have at least 1 guy miss at least 1 game so there's the excuse. "Eye test" is becoming a more common one. I mean you literally cannot ever be wrong if the condition is that you simply have to claim you see whatever it is you see.
I mean, JR is already a good shooter to lakersboy, he has seen enough. So it won't matter if JR misses every 3 he takes since he has already passed the eye test. It's like pretending to make a bold claim but it's not at all.
So and so will be MVP. And then when he's not, I'll say he was my MVP. I was right! |
Except when people bring up the stats and show how Jules has improved across the board as a shooter and tear down peoples arguments that still live in the past of his rookie season.
They decide to ignore it and go with the "eye test" of Randle's rookie season, and keep on going to it as if it wasn't two seasons ago.
Heck you can post up 5 videos of Julius on one page shooting jumpers, working on his right hand, going off the dribble and on the very next page you got somebody saying "Well I need evidence Julius is working on his jumpshot."
-_- |
Which is why the two should always go hand in hand. Eye test + stats. If Julius shoots 40% from deep on 2+ 3s a game, I really doubt you're going to see many people saying how he wasn't a good shooter because two years ago.
I'm not saying JR is going to be good or bad. I think he'll shoot better this year. But I'm just now ready to label him a good shooter yet until he does it in actual games and on a consistent basis.
Lakersboy has already seen enough apparently so it doesn't matter if JR makes any jumpers at all. I just think thats an odd position to take. If you'rr going to take a strong position like, thst a not so good shooter is now going to be a good shooter (whatever that is) and you need no more evidence and the story is already written, it seems suspicious not to put something quantitative to it rather than rely entirely on his own definiton of what good is which can be twisted and turned after the fact as we have seen. |
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