Good point about the pigeon toed foot , hadn't thought that it's harder to replicate. It's what makes him more apt to twist in the air. Drew Hanlen did a study on how it's detrimental to most players who do it
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:35 am Post subject:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
Good point about the pigeon toed foot , hadn't thought that it's harder to replicate. It's what makes him more apt to twist in the air. Drew Hanlen did a study on how it's detrimental to most players who do it
The only thing that makes sense is that it's deeply pigeon-toed because they're corner shots and prevent from stepping out of bounds. Even then, it's not a good habit. Heels off the floor, sure. Slanted feet? No. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Anyone else think we could be a much more well rounded team with Julius off the bench? That would be contingent on Ingram taking a much bigger offensive load but clearly our bench is weak. What if Julius and JC came off the bench relatively early for a a rotation something like this..
Good point about the pigeon toed foot , hadn't thought that it's harder to replicate. It's what makes him more apt to twist in the air. Drew Hanlen did a study on how it's detrimental to most players who do it
The only thing that makes sense is that it's deeply pigeon-toed because they're corner shots and prevent from stepping out of bounds. Even then, it's not a good habit. Heels off the floor, sure. Slanted feet? No.
Na his foot is like that on all his shots.. I think it's just subconsciously to help him turn/twist ; feels comfortable aligning his shoulder
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:45 am Post subject:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
Good point about the pigeon toed foot , hadn't thought that it's harder to replicate. It's what makes him more apt to twist in the air. Drew Hanlen did a study on how it's detrimental to most players who do it
The only thing that makes sense is that it's deeply pigeon-toed because they're corner shots and prevent from stepping out of bounds. Even then, it's not a good habit. Heels off the floor, sure. Slanted feet? No.
Na his foot is like that on all his shots.. I think it's just subconsciously to help him turn/twist ; feels comfortable aligning his shoulder
Never really noticed tr pigeon toe so extreme on midrange shots, but he still exerts the slight twisting motion to the left. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Anyone else think we could be a much more well rounded team with Julius off the bench? That would be contingent on Ingram taking a much bigger offensive load but clearly our bench is weak. What if Julius and JC came off the bench relatively early for a a rotation something like this..
Starters:
Lopez
Nance
Ingram
KCP
Lonzo
First Subs:
Randle
Ingram
KCP
Clarkson
Lonzo
or
Randle
Nance
Ingram
Clarkson or KCP
Lonzo
I think he'd be more effective as a bench player and I have thought that for a long time. I don't think his ball dominance fits with what the starters are trying to do. He and JC could run their own unit.
I don't have a problem with your substitutions but based on Luke's history, he likes to keep the bench unit together. GT wrote a piece that goes more into detail. LINK
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:12 pm Post subject:
Kind of depends. Think Lonzo would hit him with the advance pass (hit ahead) beyond the 3pt line with forward momentum and opposing PFs would just be on their heels. If he could step into a 3pt shot off that advance pass, there would be magic on the floor. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Anyone else think we could be a much more well rounded team with Julius off the bench? That would be contingent on Ingram taking a much bigger offensive load but clearly our bench is weak. What if Julius and JC came off the bench relatively early for a a rotation something like this..
Starters:
Lopez
Nance
Ingram
KCP
Lonzo
First Subs:
Randle
Ingram
KCP
Clarkson
Lonzo
or
Randle
Nance
Ingram
Clarkson or KCP
Lonzo
I think he'd be more effective as a bench player and I have thought that for a long time. I don't think his ball dominance fits with what the starters are trying to do. He and JC could run their own unit.
I don't have a problem with your substitutions but based on Luke's history, he likes to keep the bench unit together. GT wrote a piece that goes more into detail. LINK
Whatever happens, I just hope Nance, Kuzma, Hart all get a chance to run with Lonzo. I think they fit like a glove as far as style of play.
this doesnt mean anything. dwight shot like what 80-90% FT in practice? totally different in real game. even i can hit 3/5 three's regularly when warming up, but i hit like 2/10 during pickup on a good day _________________ Billions Billions Billions
Good point about the pigeon toed foot , hadn't thought that it's harder to replicate. It's what makes him more apt to twist in the air. Drew Hanlen did a study on how it's detrimental to most players who do it
The only thing that makes sense is that it's deeply pigeon-toed because they're corner shots and prevent from stepping out of bounds. Even then, it's not a good habit. Heels off the floor, sure. Slanted feet? No.
Na his foot is like that on all his shots.. I think it's just subconsciously to help him turn/twist ; feels comfortable aligning his shoulder
Never really noticed tr pigeon toe so extreme on midrange shots, but he still exerts the slight twisting motion to the left.
Anyone else think we could be a much more well rounded team with Julius off the bench? That would be contingent on Ingram taking a much bigger offensive load but clearly our bench is weak. What if Julius and JC came off the bench relatively early for a a rotation something like this..
Starters:
Lopez
Nance
Ingram
KCP
Lonzo
First Subs:
Randle
Ingram
KCP
Clarkson
Lonzo
or
Randle
Nance
Ingram
Clarkson or KCP
Lonzo
I think he'd be more effective as a bench player and I have thought that for a long time. I don't think his ball dominance fits with what the starters are trying to do. He and JC could run their own unit.
I don't have a problem with your substitutions but based on Luke's history, he likes to keep the bench unit together. GT wrote a piece that goes more into detail. LINK
Whatever happens, I just hope Nance, Kuzma, Hart all get a chance to run with Lonzo. I think they fit like a glove as far as style of play.
Agreed. I think Ingram/Kuz/Nance can make an intriguing small ball frontcourt. Imagine Ball pushing the ball up with Ingram and Kuz filling the left and right lanes with Nance trailing, ready to tomahawk it down. And they have the versatility to switch everything on the perimeter defensively. Could be fun.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:26 pm Post subject:
BigBallerBrand wrote:
this doesnt mean anything. dwight shot like what 80-90% FT in practice? totally different in real game. even i can hit 3/5 three's regularly when warming up, but i hit like 2/10 during pickup on a good day
It matters taking game habits and game shots in practice. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:28 pm Post subject:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
Good point about the pigeon toed foot , hadn't thought that it's harder to replicate. It's what makes him more apt to twist in the air. Drew Hanlen did a study on how it's detrimental to most players who do it
The only thing that makes sense is that it's deeply pigeon-toed because they're corner shots and prevent from stepping out of bounds. Even then, it's not a good habit. Heels off the floor, sure. Slanted feet? No.
Na his foot is like that on all his shots.. I think it's just subconsciously to help him turn/twist ; feels comfortable aligning his shoulder
Never really noticed tr pigeon toe so extreme on midrange shots, but he still exerts the slight twisting motion to the left.
Joined: 20 Jul 2006 Posts: 8518 Location: Left coast
Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:46 pm Post subject:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
lakersboy wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
lakersboy wrote:
1st, can we please stop with the "this is like Sasha being a great shooter in practice (even though there was no proof)" narative? If he was that good, why couldn't it be seen during warmups?
Julius has been doing this all summer with videos and witness reports of 25 to 30+ consecutive 3's. He shoots 1000 a day and looks mighty comfortable now, yet doubting Thomases are everywhere. In the video he's sweaty and has every reason to be fatigued. This former bad shooter (2 years ago) has turned into a good one. Julius' outside shooting will without a doubt translate in games.
Julius with jump shot will look like Kuzma did in July, only stronger and with a better handle.
He's going to be significantly improved, something even doubters in denial will have to acknowledge. The Lakers would be fools to let him walk away.
Hate (or maybe love) always being this guy, but, there's a crap ton of good practice shooters, man. Go to Jevel Mcgees insta, he doesn't miss 3s. Zach Lowe has tweeted that Kris Humphries went 70/85 with him watching. Mozgov had that practice video last year. Aaron Gordon doesn't miss in his videos. Any LGer who was good in HS, could train for a month and shoot 40/55 on 3s shooting around.. I think most NBA players shoot really well in an empty gym.
His shot is muchhhh better than it was before. But we still have to wait and see if it translates well in games.
You're comparing a quick, athletic, and strong pf with a very good handle, to Mcgee and Humphries and guys who can make a lot of shots outside. Randle's outside shot and ball handling will make him a huge threat anytime he has the ball. By comparing him to someone shooting 40-55 3's tells me you and I aren't looking at or judging the same thing. He's hitting the back of the rim or all net on nearly every shot. That's not something any shooter does. Percentages drop during games, but Jordan did it, Curry does it on 3's, and few others do that consistently. Bottom line is Julius has the touch. Ireland reported last month that Julius was making up to 35 straight. Far different from 40 out of 55. If you saw his multiple mid range shooting videos, virtually every shot is back rim or all net. 2 feet, 1 foot fall away, wrong direction, etc.
I'm that avg LG'er who focused volume shooting and it made a difference, but unlike bigs you mentioned, I don't have to wait for a coach to give me a green light. I can camp outside with no assignment to set screens, crash boards, and leave most shots for the star of my team.
Randle, unlike the guys you mentioned, will have a green light. Most are saying you need to wait and see if it translates. I've seen all I need to see and I won't be surprised when it does.
I had the same discussion when I saw Ariza warmup before he got his green light the next season.
And i never argued against how good he'd be if he was able to shoot the 3 well.. I think there's a solid chance he shoots 34% , and that will really help everything on the court. You just can't be 100% convinced off videos, because every 33%+ 3pt shooter in the league, looks like that in an open gym.
And if you saw Trevor Ariza making shots in warm-ups the year before he changed his mechanics, it's more credence to my point - NBA players make practice shots even with crap forms --- only after he fixed his form could he shoot in game - the only true test.
That's 1 video of Mcgee making 5 straight shots before it repeats.
I've been told repeatedly that no one can draw an accurate/absolute conclusion from info we have about Randle's shooting. I know I can't say how good of a player he will become, what awards he may get, or how much more he'll score. Feel free to believe I'm guessing when I say Randle WILL be a good shooter this year, no ifs, ands, or buts. I'm calling a spade a spade, and a good shooter a good shooter.
Ariza was a terrible shooter before he was injured. I saw him after he changed his mechanics. He returned and rarely played but his stroke during warmups was no longer anything like the broken looking shot he had before. While Phil benched him for Luke in the '08 playoffs, LG posters continually insisted that he couldn't shoot and I argued with everyone I could that he had changed. He only played 18 minutes in the playoffs and never got to show it, but next season people opened their eyes to what was apparent the year before. He could shoot. He used his time off to become a good shooter when he was injured the previous season. He didn't miraculously become a good shooter the moment someone witnessed it in competition and chose to acknowledge it against NBA competition. If that was the criteria, as Ring finger suggested, there's no such thing as a good shooter who hasn't played in the NBA.
Last edited by lakersboy on Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
Good point about the pigeon toed foot , hadn't thought that it's harder to replicate. It's what makes him more apt to twist in the air. Drew Hanlen did a study on how it's detrimental to most players who do it
The only thing that makes sense is that it's deeply pigeon-toed because they're corner shots and prevent from stepping out of bounds. Even then, it's not a good habit. Heels off the floor, sure. Slanted feet? No.
Na his foot is like that on all his shots.. I think it's just subconsciously to help him turn/twist ; feels comfortable aligning his shoulder
Never really noticed tr pigeon toe so extreme on midrange shots, but he still exerts the slight twisting motion to the left.
Brandon Ingram said it's 'crazy' how strong Julius Randle has gotten this summer, says he's been shooting it really well from 3, too.
2 years ago his shot was completely broken. Last season it was bad, but 27% from 3. This season his shot is clearly fixed, so should we be waiting to see if he can get his % up to 28% or if it goes up at all? It's asinine to think his % won't significantly rise.
It's critical for Randle to eliminate wasted motion on his shots. Look at his feet. His left foot is deeply pigeon-toed and not parallel to the hoop. This hurts accuracy because it's simply difficult to get the same footing repeatedly on these shots. Parallel footing just makes for an easier frame of reference.
Now look at his feet at the end of follow through. The left foot extends out considerably more than the right. Part of this is due to the non parallel footing. Now there's also a slight twisting motion with the upper torso just to get the shot off. Grossly hurts accuracy potential.
Now just for a frame of reference, when he shoots free throws, are his feet so pigeon-toed? Does he throw out his left arm and include the twisting motion? Shooting 3s should be like shooting FTs. Maybe there's a stronger base, more arc, better or quicker follow through at the top. But these are not good initial habits hat are being positively reinforced by consecutive makes.
Why doesn't the shooting coach correct this? Is it too hard to change routine at this point and they're just trying to maximize his current form?
It's critical for Randle to eliminate wasted motion on his shots. Look at his feet. His left foot is deeply pigeon-toed and not parallel to the hoop. This hurts accuracy because it's simply difficult to get the same footing repeatedly on these shots. Parallel footing just makes for an easier frame of reference.
Now look at his feet at the end of follow through. The left foot extends out considerably more than the right. Part of this is due to the non parallel footing. Now there's also a slight twisting motion with the upper torso just to get the shot off. Grossly hurts accuracy potential.
Now just for a frame of reference, when he shoots free throws, are his feet so pigeon-toed? Does he throw out his left arm and include the twisting motion? Shooting 3s should be like shooting FTs. Maybe there's a stronger base, more arc, better or quicker follow through at the top. But these are not good initial habits hat are being positively reinforced by consecutive makes.
Why doesn't the shooting coach correct this? Is it too hard to change routine at this point and they're just trying to maximize his current form?
A lot of shooting coaches fall victim to "practice makes/shooters".. The inefficiencies of the stroke get brought to light by defenders, and imbalances are only detrimental at game speed. There are a crapppppp load of practice shooters, and shooting coaches don't account for that dynamic most of the time. They see their guy hitting 20 in a row in practice --- naturally it's convincing --- mechanics that are borderline acceptable, get accepted, and are only detrimental in games.
Kind of depends. Think Lonzo would hit him with the advance pass (hit ahead) beyond the 3pt line with forward momentum and opposing PFs would just be on their heels. If he could step into a 3pt shot off that advance pass, there would be magic on the floor.
Yup, if he can bring that speed and intensity the whole game he's going to flourish in transition and we'll score a lot of easy points.
Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:31 am Post subject: Re: Julius Randle Splashing Threes In Practice!
kei122 wrote:
Julius Randle has been working to improve his three point shooting for this coming season. Even though he’s shooting in an empty gym, his stroke looks much improved.
Release looks slow, opponents will close on him easy. Would prefer to see him practice situational three's where he takes them as he moves around the court to get a better feel of a real game. _________________
Brandon Ingram said it's 'crazy' how strong Julius Randle has gotten this summer, says he's been shooting it really well from 3, too.
2 years ago his shot was completely broken. Last season it was bad, but 27% from 3. This season his shot is clearly fixed, so should we be waiting to see if he can get his % up to 28% or if it goes up at all? It's asinine to think his % won't significantly rise.
So I know we had a back and forth on this, and I'm not saying JRs 3pt% will go down, I'm just saying let's wait and see because sometimes it doesn't translate over in to the games. JC for instance, saw a decline his 3pt shooting last year from 35% to 33%.
Worst case, it doesn't translate but I think we can both agree that seeing JR work hard to improve areas of weakness is a great thing either way. Even if it doesn't translate right away, it could be something that will translate in time provided he continues to work at it.
Brandon Ingram said it's 'crazy' how strong Julius Randle has gotten this summer, says he's been shooting it really well from 3, too.
2 years ago his shot was completely broken. Last season it was bad, but 27% from 3. This season his shot is clearly fixed, so should we be waiting to see if he can get his % up to 28% or if it goes up at all? It's asinine to think his % won't significantly rise.
We don't know if his shot is clearly fixed. It's hard enough to look at college players during games and guess how they will perform at the next level. People have even misjudged NBA talent after watching players play in NBA games. Since when did watching players in practice give us all the answers?
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