College Basketball Bribery Scandal
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:08 pm    Post subject:

lakeshow03 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
silkwilkes wrote:
Students don't need to play for the NCAA. If you want to make money, go abroad for a year. Plenty of leagues (and good ones) willing to pay for play. But if you accept a scholarship to play in a NCAA school, then you accept the rules.

It's really that simple. The rest is hubris to me.

The fact that the NBA requires that you be 1 year removed from HS is the ridiculous part. That should be illegal. Once you hit the age of 18, you shouldn't be summarily blocked from participating in whatever profession you choose.


right, so you should be able to hired as a doctor or lawyer also once your 18.....how can the "bar" and medical board place all these requirements on individuals? I could have taught a Physical Education class @ 18.....but the state would not have allowed it unless I committed 4 years of my life to obtaining an education degree (I didn't become a PE teacher!) There are many things one could do and learn on the job, but there are regulations that require them to commit time before being allowed into the profession. The argument that these athletes are being abused in some manner because they cannot turn pro @ 18 is so played out.



What about these athletes who put their body on the line (to which the schools make millions off of) who get hurt while playing, and if bad enough they can't return and have their scholarships revoked, kicked off the team and now have no way of paying for their education? In part because they're not allowed to work while they were on the team, and now are stuck with hospital bills


not trying to be obtuse, but (bleep) happens in the real world....unfortunate events take place every day that derails careers and alters life paths of people from all walks of life.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:10 pm    Post subject:

this is the most LOL statement ever put out by Pitino!

Quote:
"These allegations come as a complete shock to me. If true, I agree with the U.S. Attorney's Office that these third-party schemes, initiated by a few bad actors, operated to commit a fraud on the impacted universities and their basketball programs, including the University of Louisville. Our fans and supporters deserve better and I am committed to taking whatever steps are needed to ensure those responsible are held accountable."


I think Pitino may be a dead man walking at this point....

LINK
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:40 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Going abroad would hurt their chances of being drafted.


how so? or are you saying they are actually benefiting from playing at these evil institutions?


Brandon Jennings did okay. I don't think that a top prospect loses anything in the draft by going overseas for a year. But you'd better be a top prospect who would have been a likely first round pick out of high school, if you'd been eligible.

The reality is that most 18 year old basketball players aren't ready for the culture shock of playing overseas. I can't say that I would have been ready for it myself. Imagine getting out of AAU/high school and going to work with a bunch of grown men in, say, Greece when you don't speak the language and can't even read the signs on the street. Imagine playing for a coach and with teammates who know that you're only going to be there for a year.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:31 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
adkindo wrote:
I do take exception with the portrayal of the problem by Joon H. Kim, the acting United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York being limited to the coaches and shoe companies.....the athletes, and especially their families (and advisers) are huge parts of the problems. Families often drive the market by auctioning off their child's services to the highest bidder.


You're right, but there are limits to how far federal criminal law can reach. When you have bribers (shoe companies), bribees (coaches), and facilitators (the shady agent types), it makes for a coherent violation of criminal law. But what crime do the families or the athletes commit by taking the money?


They are co-conspirators to the crimes being committed...on top of that, my guess is all of them committed tax fraud by not recognizing the bribe money on their taxes. They are not victims, but criminals as part of the conspiracy.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:40 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
adkindo wrote:
I do take exception with the portrayal of the problem by Joon H. Kim, the acting United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York being limited to the coaches and shoe companies.....the athletes, and especially their families (and advisers) are huge parts of the problems. Families often drive the market by auctioning off their child's services to the highest bidder.


You're right, but there are limits to how far federal criminal law can reach. When you have bribers (shoe companies), bribees (coaches), and facilitators (the shady agent types), it makes for a coherent violation of criminal law. But what crime do the families or the athletes commit by taking the money?


They are co-conspirators to the crimes being committed...on top of that, my guess is all of them committed tax fraud by not recognizing the bribe money on their taxes. They are not victims, but criminals as part of the conspiracy.


Aren't they just good capitalists?
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:58 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
They are co-conspirators to the crimes being committed...on top of that, my guess is all of them committed tax fraud by not recognizing the bribe money on their taxes. They are not victims, but criminals as part of the conspiracy.


Conspiracy would be a stretch in most cases, but tax evasion is an interesting idea.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:26 am    Post subject:

trying to connect the dots on the players involved so far....

- it is pretty clear that Brian Bowen (U of Louisville) was involved and will never play college basketball.

- The indictments also refer to a South Carolina (University 2) player from last year when Lamont Evans (now with Oklahoma State) was there....and he was heavily involved in the recruitment of PJ Dozier who if I recall correctly was the first McDonalds All American to ever play at South Carolina as a Freshman. A few years before that, Evans was the primary recruiter of Sindarius Thornwell.

- There is smoke/speculation that one of the Arizona players related to Book Richardson is DeAndre Ayton, but I have not seen any real speculation to who the player referred to as "already on campus" relates to yet.

- In regards to USC and Tony Bland, alot of speculation De’Anthony Melton is one of the two players referenced.

- Seems like Auburn's (Chuck Person) player most speculated about is Mustapha Heron and less so Austin Wiley....both 5 Star Recruits that surprisingly (for Heron...Wiley's parents are Auburn Alumni) chose Auburn this past year.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:29 am    Post subject:

Louisville's Rick Pitino tells staff he expects to lose his job

Quote:
A source told ESPN's Michael Eaves that Pitino "knows it's coming" after a staff meeting of the basketball coaches Wednesday morning in Louisville.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:31 am    Post subject:

ESPN 100 recruit E.J. Montgomery decommits from Auburn

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ESPN 100 forward E.J. Montgomery has decommitted from Auburn, sources confirmed to ESPN.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:40 am    Post subject:

Louisville fires Pitino and the AD.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/20834710/louisville-head-coach-rick-pitino-athletic-director-tom-jurich-out
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:10 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Louisville fires Pitino and the AD.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/20834710/louisville-head-coach-rick-pitino-athletic-director-tom-jurich-out



weird feeling about this....he brought it on himself, but it sucks to see a legend's career likely end in this manner.

Supposedly they are officially just on unpaid administrative leave...

Quote:
Pitino's attorney, Steve Pence, told the Louisville Courier-Journal that the Hall-of-Fame coach has been "effectively fired" after being placed on administrative leave by the university.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:33 am    Post subject:

Wise move. Louisville needs to maintain some degree of control over Pitino while it tries to figure out how deep this hole goes.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:50 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
JBizzlethethird wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Students athletes should be paid proportionally to the value they bring to the sports program.


Don't think it would fly with Title IX

Perhaps a flat rate between all athletes on a school by school basis - Alabama athletes would get more than Iowa State athletes, but the "base pay" for men and women athletes at Alabama would be equitable just as it would be for men and women athletes at ISU.

Then allow athletes to profit off their likenesses, which would be outside of the purview of Title IX, and whereby star college athletes could earn money from endorsements more commensurate to the value they bring to their university and the NCAA.


After subtracting the costs of an education, room and board?
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:51 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
silkwilkes wrote:
Students don't need to play for the NCAA. If you want to make money, go abroad for a year. Plenty of leagues (and good ones) willing to pay for play. But if you accept a scholarship to play in a NCAA school, then you accept the rules.

It's really that simple. The rest is hubris to me.

The fact that the NBA requires that you be 1 year removed from HS is the ridiculous part. That should be illegal. Once you hit the age of 18, you shouldn't be summarily blocked from participating in whatever profession you choose.


right, so you should be able to hired as a doctor or lawyer also once your 18.....how can the "bar" and medical board place all these requirements on individuals? I could have taught a Physical Education class @ 18.....but the state would not have allowed it unless I committed 4 years of my life to obtaining an education degree (I didn't become a PE teacher!) There are many things one could do and learn on the job, but there are regulations that require them to commit time before being allowed into the profession. The argument that these athletes are being abused in some manner because they cannot turn pro @ 18 is so played out.


Not to mention it is an agreement collectively bargained between the players union and the owners.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:59 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
trying to connect the dots on the players involved so far....

- it is pretty clear that Brian Bowen (U of Louisville) was involved and will never play college basketball.

- The indictments also refer to a South Carolina (University 2) player from last year when Lamont Evans (now with Oklahoma State) was there....and he was heavily involved in the recruitment of PJ Dozier who if I recall correctly was the first McDonalds All American to ever play at South Carolina as a Freshman. A few years before that, Evans was the primary recruiter of Sindarius Thornwell.

- There is smoke/speculation that one of the Arizona players related to Book Richardson is DeAndre Ayton, but I have not seen any real speculation to who the player referred to as "already on campus" relates to yet.

- In regards to USC and Tony Bland, alot of speculation De’Anthony Melton is one of the two players referenced.

- Seems like Auburn's (Chuck Person) player most speculated about is Mustapha Heron and less so Austin Wiley....both 5 Star Recruits that surprisingly (for Heron...Wiley's parents are Auburn Alumni) chose Auburn this past year.

Online chatter is that COB Jr is the second player at USC and there was a bidding war between Miami and Arizona for 2018 recruit Nassir Little.


Last edited by Baron Von Humongous on Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:30 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
this is the most LOL statement ever put out by Pitino!

Quote:
"These allegations come as a complete shock to me. If true, I agree with the U.S. Attorney's Office that these third-party schemes, initiated by a few bad actors, operated to commit a fraud on the impacted universities and their basketball programs, including the University of Louisville. Our fans and supporters deserve better and I am committed to taking whatever steps are needed to ensure those responsible are held accountable."


I think Pitino may be a dead man walking at this point....

LINK


https://youtu.be/SjbPi00k_ME
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:13 pm    Post subject:

Miami men's basketball program under FBI investigation, president acknowledges

Quote:
The president of the University of Miami (Fla.) acknowledged Wednesday evening that his men's basketball program is subject to an ongoing FBI investigation. Miami joins Auburn, Arizona, Louisville, Oklahoma State and USC as schools publicly connected to the unprecedented probe that has rocked college basketball.


Quote:
In court documents, Miami reasonably appears to be so-called "University-7" with specific connections to an unidentified coach "Coach-3" and recruit "Player-12." University-7 is identified as a private university in Florida with approximately 16,000 students and one of the state's largest universities, among other details that match Miami's profile.


do not really understand the bold part....U of Miami is one of the smaller universities in FL....not even in the top 20 in size.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:12 am    Post subject:

Pitino's former protégé is the current head coach for U$C. Was not surprised the Condom Brands were lured in.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:25 am    Post subject:

welcome to the party Nike....

Sources: Nike's EYBL served with subpoena by federal investigators

Quote:
Sources familiar with the investigation confirmed to ESPN and ABC News that Nike's grassroots basketball division, referred to as the Elite Youth Basketball League, has been served with a subpoena, as federal prosecutors in New York and the FBI dig deeper into what they've called the "dark underbelly" of college basketball.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:57 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
adkindo wrote:
silkwilkes wrote:
Students don't need to play for the NCAA. If you want to make money, go abroad for a year. Plenty of leagues (and good ones) willing to pay for play. But if you accept a scholarship to play in a NCAA school, then you accept the rules.

It's really that simple. The rest is hubris to me.

The fact that the NBA requires that you be 1 year removed from HS is the ridiculous part. That should be illegal. Once you hit the age of 18, you shouldn't be summarily blocked from participating in whatever profession you choose.


right, so you should be able to hired as a doctor or lawyer also once your 18.....how can the "bar" and medical board place all these requirements on individuals? I could have taught a Physical Education class @ 18.....but the state would not have allowed it unless I committed 4 years of my life to obtaining an education degree (I didn't become a PE teacher!) There are many things one could do and learn on the job, but there are regulations that require them to commit time before being allowed into the profession. The argument that these athletes are being abused in some manner because they cannot turn pro @ 18 is so played out.


Not to mention it is an agreement collectively bargained between the players union and the owners.


yeah, it's up to the player's union to fight for the (not yet union member who possibly take your job) prospective player aka it won't happen

But this is different than doctors or lawyers which require certain competency level of their skills prior to being able to practice which is completely different than age restriction

Ex: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balamurali_Ambati
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 7:21 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
adkindo wrote:
silkwilkes wrote:
Students don't need to play for the NCAA. If you want to make money, go abroad for a year. Plenty of leagues (and good ones) willing to pay for play. But if you accept a scholarship to play in a NCAA school, then you accept the rules.

It's really that simple. The rest is hubris to me.

The fact that the NBA requires that you be 1 year removed from HS is the ridiculous part. That should be illegal. Once you hit the age of 18, you shouldn't be summarily blocked from participating in whatever profession you choose.


right, so you should be able to hired as a doctor or lawyer also once your 18.....how can the "bar" and medical board place all these requirements on individuals? I could have taught a Physical Education class @ 18.....but the state would not have allowed it unless I committed 4 years of my life to obtaining an education degree (I didn't become a PE teacher!) There are many things one could do and learn on the job, but there are regulations that require them to commit time before being allowed into the profession. The argument that these athletes are being abused in some manner because they cannot turn pro @ 18 is so played out.


Not to mention it is an agreement collectively bargained between the players union and the owners.


yeah, it's up to the player's union to fight for the (not yet union member who possibly take your job) prospective player aka it won't happen

But this is different than doctors or lawyers which require certain competency level of their skills prior to being able to practice which is completely different than age restriction

Ex: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balamurali_Ambati


countless other examples....one has to be 18 years old to obtain a CDL license, but can only obtain a hazardous material CDL at the age of 21 irregardless of competence level.

Also, 17 states have a 21 year old age requirement to be admitted to the state law bar....and in BACCUS v. KARGER, the federal court upheld the 21 year old age requirement as constitutional. Baccus was a child prodigy that completed law school @ the age of 16.

Quote:
As to the second requirement — that one must be at least 21 years of age to sit for the bar examination — we find that such a requirement serves, de facto, as a threshold for admission to the bar and, as such, passes muster under the minimal standard of constitutional review pertinent to this action.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 7:37 am    Post subject:

Source: 'Coach-2' in federal complaint is Rick Pitino

Quote:
Louisville men's basketball coach Rick Pitino, who has been placed on unpaid administrative leave amid a federal investigation into fraud and corruption, is the "Coach-2" who played a role in funneling money to a recruit, a source confirmed to ABC News on Thursday.


Quote:
According to court records, Christian Dawkins, the former agent for ASM Sports who was charged in both parts of the college basketball case, told the cooperating witness, Marty Blazer, that he helped funnel $100,000 to the family of recruit Brian Bowen "at the request of a coach," identified as "Coach-2."


Quote:
Court records also said Adidas executive Jim Gatto "spoke directly with Coach-2 multiple times in the days before [Bowen] publicly committed" to Louisville.


Quote:
According to FBI documents, at one point during the conversation in the hotel room, Augustine allegedly said, "No one swings a bigger [expletive] than [Coach-2] at [Adidas]" and added "all [Coach-2] has to do is pick up the phone and call somebody [and say], 'These are my guys; they're taking care of us.'"


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 7:41 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
yeah, it's up to the player's union to fight for the (not yet union member who possibly take your job) prospective player aka it won't happen


Oh, it does happen. The owners have been pushing for two years, while the union wants zero. The owners have business reasons for wanting two years. The players find even one year to be offensive. One year is the compromise for the time being.

But let's not get too distracted by this aspect of the debate. The reality is that few kids are ready to make the jump from high school to the NBA. For every Garnett or Kobe, there were multiple guys who did not make it and a few who didn't even stick in the league. The owners hated that the draft system forced them to gamble on unproven kids, but in many cases the unproven kids never got a chance to develop.

The deeper problem is the lack of a bona fide minor league system that would allow kids to get paid while developing. Instead, kids are forced into a college system where they get the illusion of an education while swimming in waters full of crooked coaches and agents. College basketball should be for kids who want to go to college, just like it is for baseball players. (Football is a different story, so let's skip that for now.). There should be a legitimate minor league option for kids who want to start making some money.

I am pleased to see that the NBA is taking some steps in that direction, even if they are baby steps. A lot of kids would still choose to go to college for a variety of reasons, from education to the college experience to the glory of playing for UNC or Kansas or whoever. But there should be a choice.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:03 am    Post subject:

I'm not surprised that college basketball is the one taking the hits. Its what happens when you don't have a true minor league system like baseball. Some of these guys probably never really wanted to go to college but they do because thats their one path to get drafted in the NBA.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:09 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
governator wrote:
yeah, it's up to the player's union to fight for the (not yet union member who possibly take your job) prospective player aka it won't happen


Oh, it does happen. The owners have been pushing for two years, while the union wants zero. The owners have business reasons for wanting two years. The players find even one year to be offensive. One year is the compromise for the time being.

But let's not get too distracted by this aspect of the debate. The reality is that few kids are ready to make the jump from high school to the NBA. For every Garnett or Kobe, there were multiple guys who did not make it and a few who didn't even stick in the league. The owners hated that the draft system forced them to gamble on unproven kids, but in many cases the unproven kids never got a chance to develop.

The deeper problem is the lack of a bona fide minor league system that would allow kids to get paid while developing. Instead, kids are forced into a college system where they get the illusion of an education while swimming in waters full of crooked coaches and agents. College basketball should be for kids who want to go to college, just like it is for baseball players. (Football is a different story, so let's skip that for now.). There should be a legitimate minor league option for kids who want to start making some money.

I am pleased to see that the NBA is taking some steps in that direction, even if they are baby steps. A lot of kids would still choose to go to college for a variety of reasons, from education to the college experience to the glory of playing for UNC or Kansas or whoever. But there should be a choice.


the counter point to the baseball minor league player getting paid is beyond the handful that get large signing bonuses, the average Division 1 college basketball player receives far more than a minor league baseball player, while living a much more comfortable life.

First, there is the cost of tuition, books, etc., but we can look beyond those for this issue, because somehow many attempt to diminish this value.

- The college athlete has no housing cost or rent.
- The college athlete receives cost of attendance stipends, which is usually about $4K to $5K each year....which is basically money to spend on whatever you wish.
- The college athlete can still receive Pell Grants if they qualify economically....I think the last numbers I saw was about 50% of scholarship athletes also receive Pell Grants, which again is basically money to spend on whatever you wish since your Tuition, Room & Boad, Books, etc. is paid for via scholarship.
- The college athlete gets travel stipends for every game or event they travel to which is usually $100 or so......while all of their food and lodging is paid for by the school, allowing them to pocket the stipends. Some schools are known to distribute larger travel stipends.
- Schools are allowed to pay the injury insurance premiums, which are very expensive, for their elite/pro prospect athletes.
- Scholarship players are usually fully covered for medical insurance while attending school.
- Schools pay for family travel to events such as the Final Four and College Football playoffs.
- Schools are allowed to spend for player clothing if needed....those suits that players often get off the bus in and enter the arena.....often bought by the university.
- Larger universities shower student athletes in school clothing/sportswear...so much that it is often rare to see an athlete on campus that is not wearing a t-shirt, jacket or shorts with the school logo on them.

I am sure there are other loopholes that I am not including that allow schools to funnel cash and benefits to the college athlete....while minor league baseball players usually make $25K a year (or less), live in a dirty house with about 5 or 6 other guys and routinely seek additional side employment when possible just to survive for several years. Which system sounds better to you as an 18, 19, or 20 year old?
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