College Basketball Bribery Scandal
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:16 am    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
I'm not surprised that college basketball is the one taking the hits. Its what happens when you don't have a true minor league system like baseball. Some of these guys probably never really wanted to go to college but they do because thats their one path to get drafted in the NBA.


there are many players every year that are drafted in the NBA that have never attended a college class. Terrance Ferguson and Emmanuel Mudiay were both 5 star prospects that chose not to attend college....and there are several in this years class that announced they are not attending college. This is on top of the many young foreign players that are drafted without attending college.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:37 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
I'm not surprised that college basketball is the one taking the hits. Its what happens when you don't have a true minor league system like baseball. Some of these guys probably never really wanted to go to college but they do because thats their one path to get drafted in the NBA.


there are many players every year that are drafted in the NBA that have never attended a college class.
Terrance Ferguson and Emmanuel Mudiay were both 5 star prospects that chose not to attend college....and there are several in this years class that announced they are not attending college. This is on top of the many young foreign players that are drafted without attending college.


That's true. Nike, Adidas, UnderArmour and like are recruiting starting at the playground level. They're in high schools all over the country. They're making offers that players parents can't refuse. I don't know if it's legal or not but it's certainly happening.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:58 am    Post subject:

It would be cool if teams could draft a guy and let him play in college for a few years and retain his rights until he comes out of college. Similar to how they do with European players. That way the kids could develop and still have the security of an NBA contract
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:59 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
welcome to the party Nike....

Sources: Nike's EYBL served with subpoena by federal investigators

Quote:
Sources familiar with the investigation confirmed to ESPN and ABC News that Nike's grassroots basketball division, referred to as the Elite Youth Basketball League, has been served with a subpoena, as federal prosecutors in New York and the FBI dig deeper into what they've called the "dark underbelly" of college basketball.


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word on the street is the NIKE employees the FBI is talking to are actually former Adidas employees.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:05 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
I'm not surprised that college basketball is the one taking the hits. Its what happens when you don't have a true minor league system like baseball. Some of these guys probably never really wanted to go to college but they do because thats their one path to get drafted in the NBA.


there are many players every year that are drafted in the NBA that have never attended a college class. Terrance Ferguson and Emmanuel Mudiay were both 5 star prospects that chose not to attend college....and there are several in this years class that announced they are not attending college. This is on top of the many young foreign players that are drafted without attending college.
you keep raising this point but not being honest about the reality of having to go to an American College while playing basketball to make sure you end up in the draft. Everyone isnt about that life... meaning about the life of leaving america and going to a foreign country to live for a year. It's fine for some but not for most. And it shouldnt have to be.

NCAA is not about the kids/students. if you believe that you're not paying attention. the ncaa is about $$$. They have their rules in place in order to make sure they are the only ones profiting. Once you admit to this its really easy to see the light. Pay the players an actual salary. The small schools with lower level players get less money just like the real world. you want to work for a small company that has little revenue. go ahead. you wont make much vs working for a large corporation doing the exact same job.

Now if you really want to have fun with it. Dont allow the kids to choose their school unless they are willing to waive their 1 and done rights meaning they have to go for at minimum 2 years. then they can choose to go where they please. Otherwise you go into the college basketball draft.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:10 am    Post subject:

22 wrote:
It would be cool if teams could draft a guy and let him play in college for a few years and retain his rights until he comes out of college. Similar to how they do with European players. That way the kids could develop and still have the security of an NBA contract


not sure what the rules or loophole was, but the Celtics drafted Larry Bird in the 1978 draft (6th)....then he played at Indiana State in the 78-79 season, and did not join the Celtics until the 79-80 season. I know in 1980, they changed the rule requiring college players to renounce the college eligibility to enter the draft (Bird Collegiate Rule). Before the rule change, PHX drafted Kyle Macy 22nd (University of Kentucky) in the 1979 draft and he did not enter the NBA until the 80-81 season.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:27 am    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
adkindo wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
I'm not surprised that college basketball is the one taking the hits. Its what happens when you don't have a true minor league system like baseball. Some of these guys probably never really wanted to go to college but they do because thats their one path to get drafted in the NBA.


there are many players every year that are drafted in the NBA that have never attended a college class. Terrance Ferguson and Emmanuel Mudiay were both 5 star prospects that chose not to attend college....and there are several in this years class that announced they are not attending college. This is on top of the many young foreign players that are drafted without attending college.
you keep raising this point but not being honest about the reality of having to go to an American College while playing basketball to make sure you end up in the draft. Everyone isnt about that life... meaning about the life of leaving america and going to a foreign country to live for a year. It's fine for some but not for most. And it shouldnt have to be.

NCAA is not about the kids/students. if you believe that you're not paying attention. the ncaa is about $$$. They have their rules in place in order to make sure they are the only ones profiting. Once you admit to this its really easy to see the light. Pay the players an actual salary. The small schools with lower level players get less money just like the real world. you want to work for a small company that has little revenue. go ahead. you wont make much vs working for a large corporation doing the exact same job.

Now if you really want to have fun with it. Dont allow the kids to choose their school unless they are willing to waive their 1 and done rights meaning they have to go for at minimum 2 years. then they can choose to go where they please. Otherwise you go into the college basketball draft.


it's not about me paying attention or seeing the light.....as a 4 year scholarship NCAA football player, I am pretty up to speed on the realities that exist. I am absolutely against instituting any form of "cash wages" into collegiate sports.

I am fine with allowing players to go straight to the pro's, although I prefer the "0 or 2 year minimum option", which i think is similar to your reference. My issue is with what I consider has became a propaganda campaign of how these "poor little athletes" operate under these "abusive rules and regulations". All of these claims that it is un-American or in violation of the 14th Amendment are bs, and the courts have clearly ruled age restriction regulations can be placed on employment simply for the cause of needed maturity. A free college education is extremely valuable, and it is not my problem that the athlete fails to recognize or desire this, but to perform on this platform, it is required the athlete be a student at the institution. College athletes have it pretty good, and as I illustrated in a previous post, they receive far more benefits than education. As one coach put it, "there is no SEC football player that does not have the cash to take a female friend to a casual dinner and movie each week", referring to all of the additional spending cash they receive.

At the end of the day, it is optional....nobody is forcing a player to go to college. If going overseas is too hard for an individual....ok, but that is their personal issue. Fergusons contract in Australia included lodging and expenses for his mother/family to go with him. One of the 5 Star prospects this year (graduated high school in 2017) decided to simply not go to college and work with a trainer for a year to prepare for the draft. It is the individuals choice......the bottom line is many players greatly benefit from the platform that NCAA provides them, and allows them to build value for future earnings.....just like every other kid on campus.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:18 am    Post subject:

Alabama staffer resigns over link to financial adviser amid bribery investigation

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On Wednesday night, Alabama athletic director Greg Byrne announced that the school accepted the resignation of Kobie Baker, a men's basketball administrator. Baker's resignation came after Byrne said an internal review of its men's basketball program was catalyzed by the news of the FBI's inquiry into the shady side of college basketball.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:51 am    Post subject:

University of Sanctions and Cheaters....what else is new in that ghetto school buying off their athletic recruits?


Go Bruins!
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:00 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Which system sounds better to you as an 18, 19, or 20 year old?


One where I have a choice.

Would minor league basketball players have the same lifestyle as minor league baseball players? Maybe, maybe not. Some of them would probably have shoe contracts from day one, and others would be getting money from agents or whoever. And it would be perfectly legal.

But even if it is just as bad as you think it might be, I'd want the choice.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:04 pm    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
Now if you really want to have fun with it. Dont allow the kids to choose their school unless they are willing to waive their 1 and done rights meaning they have to go for at minimum 2 years. then they can choose to go where they please. Otherwise you go into the college basketball draft.


If you think that through logically, you'll see that it would be a disaster. What do you think would happen in the real world if some college told a kid that he had to stay in school for another year? The arrangement would be illegal for other reasons, but even if it wasn't, it would just be a recurring series of train wrecks.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:58 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
splashmtn wrote:
Now if you really want to have fun with it. Dont allow the kids to choose their school unless they are willing to waive their 1 and done rights meaning they have to go for at minimum 2 years. then they can choose to go where they please. Otherwise you go into the college basketball draft.


If you think that through logically, you'll see that it would be a disaster. What do you think would happen in the real world if some college told a kid that he had to stay in school for another year? The arrangement would be illegal for other reasons, but even if it wasn't, it would just be a recurring series of train wrecks.
the school wouldnt be telling him that. he would have signed something that said this is what he wanted to do.

If you choose your school you will waive your right to leave after year 1 is that okay with you?
YES or NO

If you're thinking you may be outta here after year 1. then go into the ncaa div 1 draft
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:21 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
22 wrote:
It would be cool if teams could draft a guy and let him play in college for a few years and retain his rights until he comes out of college. Similar to how they do with European players. That way the kids could develop and still have the security of an NBA contract


not sure what the rules or loophole was, but the Celtics drafted Larry Bird in the 1978 draft (6th)....then he played at Indiana State in the 78-79 season, and did not join the Celtics until the 79-80 season. I know in 1980, they changed the rule requiring college players to renounce the college eligibility to enter the draft (Bird Collegiate Rule). Before the rule change, PHX drafted Kyle Macy 22nd (University of Kentucky) in the 1979 draft and he did not enter the NBA until the 80-81 season.


Oh word? I wonder why they changed it
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:22 pm    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
splashmtn wrote:
Now if you really want to have fun with it. Dont allow the kids to choose their school unless they are willing to waive their 1 and done rights meaning they have to go for at minimum 2 years. then they can choose to go where they please. Otherwise you go into the college basketball draft.


If you think that through logically, you'll see that it would be a disaster. What do you think would happen in the real world if some college told a kid that he had to stay in school for another year? The arrangement would be illegal for other reasons, but even if it wasn't, it would just be a recurring series of train wrecks.
the school wouldnt be telling him that. he would have signed something that said this is what he wanted to do.

If you choose your school you will waive your right to leave after year 1 is that okay with you?
YES or NO

If you're thinking you may be outta here after year 1. then go into the ncaa div 1 draft


So at the end of Year 1, he signs with an agent and thus becomes ineligible. Now what do you do? Or he stops going to class and becomes academically ineligible. What do you do? We could probably dream up a dozen other scenarios.

That's just keeping it simple and not getting into the legal side of things. The answer from a legal perspective is that the kid would just declare for the draft anyway, and the NBA would have no choice but to honor it. The waiver wouldn't be binding on the NBA unless the union agreed to amend the CBA. Even aside from the CBA, the waiver would most likely be void as a restraint of trade under state law and would most likely violate the antitrust laws.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:03 am    Post subject:

22 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
22 wrote:
It would be cool if teams could draft a guy and let him play in college for a few years and retain his rights until he comes out of college. Similar to how they do with European players. That way the kids could develop and still have the security of an NBA contract


not sure what the rules or loophole was, but the Celtics drafted Larry Bird in the 1978 draft (6th)....then he played at Indiana State in the 78-79 season, and did not join the Celtics until the 79-80 season. I know in 1980, they changed the rule requiring college players to renounce the college eligibility to enter the draft (Bird Collegiate Rule). Before the rule change, PHX drafted Kyle Macy 22nd (University of Kentucky) in the 1979 draft and he did not enter the NBA until the 80-81 season.


Oh word? I wonder why they changed it


my guess it was one of those things that was so simple, but everyone was stuck thinking inside the box....then Red Auerbach took advantage of it and landed Bird with the 6th pick, and they realized that it would probably get out of control pretty quickly.....drafting 15 year olds, etc.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:12 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Which system sounds better to you as an 18, 19, or 20 year old?


One where I have a choice.

Would minor league basketball players have the same lifestyle as minor league baseball players? Maybe, maybe not. Some of them would probably have shoe contracts from day one, and others would be getting money from agents or whoever. And it would be perfectly legal.

But even if it is just as bad as you think it might be, I'd want the choice.


I am not opposed to them going straight to the DLeague or even NBA.....that is not my issue at all. I just do not want "wages" introduced into the collegiate system.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:01 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
splashmtn wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
splashmtn wrote:
Now if you really want to have fun with it. Dont allow the kids to choose their school unless they are willing to waive their 1 and done rights meaning they have to go for at minimum 2 years. then they can choose to go where they please. Otherwise you go into the college basketball draft.


If you think that through logically, you'll see that it would be a disaster. What do you think would happen in the real world if some college told a kid that he had to stay in school for another year? The arrangement would be illegal for other reasons, but even if it wasn't, it would just be a recurring series of train wrecks.
the school wouldnt be telling him that. he would have signed something that said this is what he wanted to do.

If you choose your school you will waive your right to leave after year 1 is that okay with you?
YES or NO

If you're thinking you may be outta here after year 1. then go into the ncaa div 1 draft


So at the end of Year 1, he signs with an agent and thus becomes ineligible. Now what do you do? Or he stops going to class and becomes academically ineligible. What do you do? We could probably dream up a dozen other scenarios.

That's just keeping it simple and not getting into the legal side of things. The answer from a legal perspective is that the kid would just declare for the draft anyway, and the NBA would have no choice but to honor it. The waiver wouldn't be binding on the NBA unless the union agreed to amend the CBA. Even aside from the CBA, the waiver would most likely be void as a restraint of trade under state law and would most likely violate the antitrust laws.


to the legal part. yes this would be a rule in cahoots with the nba. it would go hand in hand. You can't violate your ncaa promise and get to the nba. the nba would not allow you to enter the draft. Now their would be a penalty for violating your promise(like all other contracts that are broken.) Now would the penalty be severe enough to deter someone from sitting out year 2 because they know they're going to the league in year 3? thats up to those in charge. but you could make the penalty so harsh that no one does it like say...If you promise to stay 2 years but you quit after year 1. You will owe the college/ncaa 50% of your first nba rookie contract.

Oh by the way. They dont need to be eligble to play. This is a business. who are we fooling. You're hiring ball players to play ball for your school. its more or less the nba's farm system. Those that want to go to class, GO. Those that know good and well they wont make it. You better get that degree.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:12 am    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
Now their would be a penalty for violating your promise(like all other contracts that are broken.) Now would the penalty be severe enough to deter someone from sitting out year 2 because they know they're going to the league in year 3? thats up to those in charge. but you could make the penalty so harsh that no one does it like say...If you promise to stay 2 years but you quit after year 1. You will owe the college/ncaa 50% of your first nba rookie contract.


Penalty clauses are not enforceable, except in narrow situations that are not applicable here. I don't want to get sidetracked by the nitty-gritty legal details, so suffice it to say that the only practical way to get rid of one-and-dones would be to get the NBPA to agree to it. One way or another, anything else is likely to be illegal.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:26 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
22 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
22 wrote:
It would be cool if teams could draft a guy and let him play in college for a few years and retain his rights until he comes out of college. Similar to how they do with European players. That way the kids could develop and still have the security of an NBA contract


not sure what the rules or loophole was, but the Celtics drafted Larry Bird in the 1978 draft (6th)....then he played at Indiana State in the 78-79 season, and did not join the Celtics until the 79-80 season. I know in 1980, they changed the rule requiring college players to renounce the college eligibility to enter the draft (Bird Collegiate Rule). Before the rule change, PHX drafted Kyle Macy 22nd (University of Kentucky) in the 1979 draft and he did not enter the NBA until the 80-81 season.


Oh word? I wonder why they changed it


my guess it was one of those things that was so simple, but everyone was stuck thinking inside the box....then Red Auerbach took advantage of it and landed Bird with the 6th pick, and they realized that it would probably get out of control pretty quickly.....drafting 15 year olds, etc.


If I recall correctly, it didn't work quite that way. Bird was not all that big of a deal as a junior. I had heard of him and had seen him play, but few other people would have known much about him. He was some white kid from Indiana State in the Missouri Valley Conference who scored a bunch of points. I think he as an All-American, but he wasn't really on the radar. Boston drafted him in the first round, but they didn't offer him much money, so he declined to sign. Then he had the monster senior year. He could have gone back into the draft, but Boston finally coughed up the money to sign him before its draft rights expired.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:32 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Which system sounds better to you as an 18, 19, or 20 year old?


One where I have a choice.

Would minor league basketball players have the same lifestyle as minor league baseball players? Maybe, maybe not. Some of them would probably have shoe contracts from day one, and others would be getting money from agents or whoever. And it would be perfectly legal.

But even if it is just as bad as you think it might be, I'd want the choice.


I am not opposed to them going straight to the DLeague or even NBA.....that is not my issue at all. I just do not want "wages" introduced into the collegiate system.


I'm cool with that viewpoint, but I'm not cool with the status quo. Something needs to give. If college sports remains a de facto minor league system (at least at big schools), then it needs to quit pretending to be something it isn't. I'd rather see a real minor league system, as opposed to seeing wages and benefits paid to college athletes. But if the latter is the only viable alternative, so be it.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:58 am    Post subject:

Were it up to me all of these overpaid college coaches would get the axe. I cannot for the life of me understand how we as a society pay these guys (talking about the ones employed by state schools) millions of dollars when they're not even working at the highest level.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:37 am    Post subject:

Don Draper wrote:
Were it up to me all of these overpaid college coaches would get the axe. I cannot for the life of me understand how we as a society pay these guys (talking about the ones employed by state schools) millions of dollars when they're not even working at the highest level.


They get paid that much because they bring in more money to the program than they take out. NCAA basketball is basically a semi-pro basketball league anyways.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:51 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
22 wrote:
It would be cool if teams could draft a guy and let him play in college for a few years and retain his rights until he comes out of college. Similar to how they do with European players. That way the kids could develop and still have the security of an NBA contract


not sure what the rules or loophole was, but the Celtics drafted Larry Bird in the 1978 draft (6th)....then he played at Indiana State in the 78-79 season, and did not join the Celtics until the 79-80 season. I know in 1980, they changed the rule requiring college players to renounce the college eligibility to enter the draft (Bird Collegiate Rule). Before the rule change, PHX drafted Kyle Macy 22nd (University of Kentucky) in the 1979 draft and he did not enter the NBA until the 80-81 season.


you guys talking about a guaranteed contract? what happened with injuries while in college?
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:07 pm    Post subject:

Don Draper wrote:
Were it up to me all of these overpaid college coaches would get the axe. I cannot for the life of me understand how we as a society pay these guys (talking about the ones employed by state schools) millions of dollars when they're not even working at the highest level.


most of the top 30 athletic programs, where the big salaries often reside, are self-sufficient.....covering all of their operating expenses with revenue. Far more would be if not for non-revenue and women's sports. If your referring to the biggest salaries such as Michigan paying Harbaugh $5 Million per year with a $2 Million signing bonus....those salaries are paid for by the boosters....its not coming out of the school expenses like a Philosophy professor. Actually, most major athletic programs form their own non-profit entity separate from the educational institution.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:16 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
Don Draper wrote:
Were it up to me all of these overpaid college coaches would get the axe. I cannot for the life of me understand how we as a society pay these guys (talking about the ones employed by state schools) millions of dollars when they're not even working at the highest level.


They get paid that much because they bring in more money to the program than they take out. NCAA basketball is basically a semi-pro basketball league anyways.


Yep. Those top two sports are pretty much the only reason significantly less popular sports like lacrosse and women's sports even exist in colleges anymore. I get mass emails offering free tickets to soccer and women's sports games. The only times I ever got free tickets offered by the school to football and basketball were only because I was a freshman and 1 game only for each.
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