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Lakers 4 eva
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:22 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Lakers 4 eva wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
And again it isnít about the best players it is about best fit. Nance is starting tonight, does anyone think he is a better player than Kuzma and Randle? No, but he seems to be a better fit with Lopez. Randle and Kuzma have shown good chemistry on the court, they can do well against other second units and finish games for us. We want an unselfish team and this is players being unselfish.


Really? You're going to push this best fit agenda? Problem with this is Kuzma fits better in any lineup than Nance does. What exactly does Nance provide better? Defense? I'm sorry but no defender on this team is worth playing over the scoring Kuzma provides.


I guess if you choose to ignore defense. But then you donít win many ball games. I am glad to see that our coaches arenít doing that. They understand that the NBA has always been about matchups.


You a comedian? What exactly about this team screams defense to you? Luke keeps talking about it but nothings changed. Lakers will be bottom 3 in defense once again. Are you actually watching the games because from what I have seen last year and in the preaseason so far tells me other wise unless you have some numbers to back the crap you are spewing.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:26 pm    Post subject:

al242 wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
Ingram and Caldwell-Pope have both struggled shooting. If they need to start Ingram, they can play him at shooting guard. At this point, they have to start Kuzma at small forward.

PG Ball / Clarkson / Ennis
SG Ingram / Caldwell-Pope / Hart
SF Kuzma / Brewer
PF Randle / Nance / Deng
C Lopez / Bogut / Zubac / Bryant

I think playing with Bogut will help Caldwell-Pope more than Ball or Randle.


Not only are all the players in this lineup slow for their position (except Randle), who is going to play defense? This is a train wreck waiting to happen.


So you're saying we have been playing defense this whole time and the other team just happen to score at will on us the past few games? We have been a crappy defensive team since last year. You really think BI is faster than Kuzma? I have not seen BI do anything on defense that makes me think he is better than Kuzma. Kuzma is better at everything than Ingram does at this point except handle the ball.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:30 pm    Post subject:

Lakers 4 eva wrote:
al242 wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
Ingram and Caldwell-Pope have both struggled shooting. If they need to start Ingram, they can play him at shooting guard. At this point, they have to start Kuzma at small forward.

PG Ball / Clarkson / Ennis
SG Ingram / Caldwell-Pope / Hart
SF Kuzma / Brewer
PF Randle / Nance / Deng
C Lopez / Bogut / Zubac / Bryant

I think playing with Bogut will help Caldwell-Pope more than Ball or Randle.


Not only are all the players in this lineup slow for their position (except Randle), who is going to play defense? This is a train wreck waiting to happen.


So you're saying we have been playing defense this whole time and the other team just happen to score at will on us the past few games? We have been a crappy defensive team since last year. You really think BI is faster than Kuzma? I have not seen BI do anything on defense that makes me think he is better than Kuzma. Kuzma is better at everything than Ingram does at this point except handle the ball.


KCP is faster than BI, he should at least fit the 2 guard role. What is your justification for putting BI at the 2, he will get abused by faster guards. Im fine with starting Kuzma at the 3 ahead of BI.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:30 pm    Post subject:

The argument hasnít been an improved team defense, just look at how many points they gave up in the first three contests. The argument is they have an improved transition offense, but theyíve been terrible at finishing.

http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2017/10/08/lakers-preseason-data-takeaways/
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:32 pm    Post subject:

al242 wrote:
Lakers 4 eva wrote:
al242 wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
Ingram and Caldwell-Pope have both struggled shooting. If they need to start Ingram, they can play him at shooting guard. At this point, they have to start Kuzma at small forward.

PG Ball / Clarkson / Ennis
SG Ingram / Caldwell-Pope / Hart
SF Kuzma / Brewer
PF Randle / Nance / Deng
C Lopez / Bogut / Zubac / Bryant

I think playing with Bogut will help Caldwell-Pope more than Ball or Randle.


Not only are all the players in this lineup slow for their position (except Randle), who is going to play defense? This is a train wreck waiting to happen.


So you're saying we have been playing defense this whole time and the other team just happen to score at will on us the past few games? We have been a crappy defensive team since last year. You really think BI is faster than Kuzma? I have not seen BI do anything on defense that makes me think he is better than Kuzma. Kuzma is better at everything than Ingram does at this point except handle the ball.


KCP is faster than BI, he should at least fit the 2 guard role. What is your justification for putting BI at the 2, he will get abused by faster guards. Im fine with starting Kuzma at the 3 ahead of BI.


Oh I'm in the camp of have BI come off the bench. I dont want him starting period. We need people who can shoot
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:33 pm    Post subject:

Zubolo wrote:
splashmtn wrote:
Zubolo wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
RCS926 wrote:
Zubolo wrote:
If Magic is serious about attracting Lebron and Paul George in 2018, he should advocate that Kuzma starts.

BI can develop on the bench although I am not a fan of the ball stopping tendencies of BI and Clarkson. Perhaps have Bogut run the offense from the elbows?

I actually wouldn't mind a bench of
C - Bogut
F - BI, Deng
F - Ennis, Clarkson

I expect Deng to play much better as a backup 4. If he or Bogut struggles, bring in Nance/Zubac. If Clarkson struggles, bring in Hart.


Who knows if PG and Lebron are still coming next summer, but if they do, Kuz is a natural fit alongside those 2 - not to mention his great synergy with Lonzo.


Super sub sixth man is how I would use him. You can go small with Lebron at center for stretches and have all three of them on the floor.


I agree. A starting 5 with Lopez, Lebron, Kuzma, PG13 and Lonzo will be tough for any team to deal with including the Warriors.

My point is even though it would be very hard to attract Lebron and PG13 as it is right now, we stand a much better chance using Kuzma rather than BI as the other star attraction along with maybe Lonzo.

I'm still pretty optimistic if we were to take that route. I'm giving BI 5 to 10 more games to show me something.
lol thats it huh. 5 to 10 games. if you were the one in charge a lot of guys that are solid to very good ballers would be dead in the water. Thats all you give kids that come in at 19 yrs of age. You give them 1 season and 10 regular season games. if they dont prove to you that they can score(the hell with anything else they have shown they could do).. and thats it huh? wow laker fans.

I just want to remind you.

steve nash didnt look like much of anything for a few years in the nba.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nashst01.html

and he didnt look like mvp nash until him and MDA hooked up years into the nba.

So if this is how us laker fans are going to judge players. its going to be a tough hard/long road ahead. if you're not kobe status out the gate then NEXT.. sheesh.

I mean Kawhi wasnt a monster until a few years in as well. sure he's a much bigger guy, so he wont get moved around as easily as BI. so that helps. But Kawhi was playing alongside TP, GINO and Timmy D..while he had time to basically be the 4th fiddle and no one paid attention to him defensively. meaning he was always going one v one if not just him vs no one with wide open looks since you better guard those other 3 proven vets. BI is on a team and has been on a team full of not so savvy young guys. no one is drawing a double on this team at all. which means any one of them can be bottled up by a team defense shifting towards them if they try to make a move. they wont care if they leave the other lakers open. Being on a young/bad team early on is a gift and a curse. its a gift for some guy is a born scorer(BI is not that kind of player. he's a do all guy). born scorers can put up a ton of points on sorry teams and lose a lot of games. but learn how to go at the nba and deal with double and triple teams often. then if they move on to a better team or get help later on in their careers. they are already use to being jumped by the defense, so life is now so much easier with the extra help. Vs if you're not a born scorer and you end up on a sorry young team. its going to be awhile before you look like anything special. young guys with upside do better on teams with savvy vets that are winning games. so they can pull attention away from the rooks..so the rook can ease his way into scoring vs nba talent.


You make it sound like I am talking about waiving Ingram. It goes without saying that Kuzma has been significantly better and his game is much more polished than Ingram's at this point.

If you want to consider fit, I like his ability to space the floor for Randle. Lopez does the same. Randle complements both with his ability to rebound.

That said, there is nothing wrong with allowing a player who is not yet there in terms of potential.. or rather seems far from being there to develop off the bench while the superior player starts ahead of him.

As long as he weighs less than 200 or in that ballpark and he doesn't have a consistent jump shot, it is going to be very difficult for Ingram to have an impact offensively. Kuzma simply does just about everything better.
Another 5-10 games I think is enough time to pull the plug NOT on Ingram's career but in his current role as a starter over a clearly superior player. ESPECIALLY if the goal is to have the best record possible before the end of the season i.e. no incentive to throw away games.


Remember we can't let the C's get a top 5 or top 2 out of us.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:21 pm    Post subject:

Lakers 4 eva wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Lakers 4 eva wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
And again it isnít about the best players it is about best fit. Nance is starting tonight, does anyone think he is a better player than Kuzma and Randle? No, but he seems to be a better fit with Lopez. Randle and Kuzma have shown good chemistry on the court, they can do well against other second units and finish games for us. We want an unselfish team and this is players being unselfish.


Really? You're going to push this best fit agenda? Problem with this is Kuzma fits better in any lineup than Nance does. What exactly does Nance provide better? Defense? I'm sorry but no defender on this team is worth playing over the scoring Kuzma provides.


I guess if you choose to ignore defense. But then you donít win many ball games. I am glad to see that our coaches arenít doing that. They understand that the NBA has always been about matchups.


You a comedian? What exactly about this team screams defense to you? Luke keeps talking about it but nothings changed. Lakers will be bottom 3 in defense once again. Are you actually watching the games because from what I have seen last year and in the preaseason so far tells me other wise unless you have some numbers to back the crap you are spewing.


Their last game screams defense to me and we get another chance tonight to see if it carries over.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:48 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Lakers 4 eva wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Lakers 4 eva wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
And again it isnít about the best players it is about best fit. Nance is starting tonight, does anyone think he is a better player than Kuzma and Randle? No, but he seems to be a better fit with Lopez. Randle and Kuzma have shown good chemistry on the court, they can do well against other second units and finish games for us. We want an unselfish team and this is players being unselfish.


Really? You're going to push this best fit agenda? Problem with this is Kuzma fits better in any lineup than Nance does. What exactly does Nance provide better? Defense? I'm sorry but no defender on this team is worth playing over the scoring Kuzma provides.


I guess if you choose to ignore defense. But then you donít win many ball games. I am glad to see that our coaches arenít doing that. They understand that the NBA has always been about matchups.


You a comedian? What exactly about this team screams defense to you? Luke keeps talking about it but nothings changed. Lakers will be bottom 3 in defense once again. Are you actually watching the games because from what I have seen last year and in the preaseason so far tells me other wise unless you have some numbers to back the crap you are spewing.


Their last game screams defense to me and we get another chance tonight to see if it carries over.


Yes we will see tonight. I must have watched a different game because Sac looked like they missed a bunch of open shots. They look like a team worse than us.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:47 pm    Post subject:

Re: Fit

Kuzma can fit anything.

He's a good fit with the starters, good fit with the 2nd unit, the 3rd unit, the San Antonio Spurs, the Golden State Warriors, basically any team in the league and any line-up in the league. He's the modern prototype forward that fits today's NBA. Just plug him in any line-up and it will work.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:29 pm    Post subject:

Mark Jackson: "Kyle Kuzma is a starting small forward in the NBA."
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:50 pm    Post subject:

He should be
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:52 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
He should be


He should. And not for Randle like many expected but for BI.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:53 pm    Post subject:

Nash Vegas wrote:
Mark Jackson: "Kyle Kuzma is a starting small forward in the NBA."


Wonder if he'd have the guts to do what Luke doesn't. I don't think Mark would care about hurting Magic's feelings if it means the team is gonna win more.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:53 pm    Post subject:

PRLakeShow wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
He should be


He should. And not for Randle like many expected but for BI.


Yes, he and Randle have chemistry, they should be playing together
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:54 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
PRLakeShow wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
He should be


He should. And not for Randle like many expected but for BI.


Yes, he and Randle have chemistry, they should be playing together


Hopefully, Luke starts them with Lopez in our last pre-season game and see how that works out. Nance has been solid in the starting lineup. Interesting decisions for Luke.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:59 pm    Post subject:

I like these lineups

Lonzo
KCP
KUZ
Nance
Lopez

Caruso
Hart
Ingram
Randle
Bogut
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:29 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
Mark Jackson: "Kyle Kuzma is a starting small forward in the NBA."


Wonder if he'd have the guts to do what Luke doesn't. I don't think Mark would care about hurting Magic's feelings if it means the team is gonna win more.


Dont worry, Luke will get it when we start the season 0-10 with Ingram out there playing hero ball.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:31 am    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
fontana3d wrote:
dao wrote:
Rek wrote:
So yeah Kuz says he is a 4 and wants to play there. Problem is that in the pros - he's a wing player. I don't care that he's 6'9" - same as PG13 and far shorter than Durant. If you just watch his game it's pretty clear that he's a tall wing player.
In today's game, the prototypical 4 is a tall wing player. Kuzma is a 4. He can play some 3, but he will be most effective at the 4 because his skill set is unique there. Tall SF's like Durant and George are also more effective at the 4.


Expect George hated playing the 4 in Indy remember.


Most FO's and pundits believe that the game is going to continue to get smaller . George and Melo hated PF but now Melo is starting there. In a year Kuz should be strong enough to not be a liability at the 4


Don't really care what FOs or any pundits think outside of our own FO. We have to work with the roster we have right now. It looks like I'm not alone in thinking that Kuz at the SF is the way to go. I don't care what anyone thinks about opinions on forum being right or wrong. Whether I'm right or wrong about playing Kuz at SF is meaningless. I do care what's best for the team, though. When I watch him play, I see a talented wing player that happens to be tall. He can get minutes at both forward spots. But, he's a better fit as a SF.

oldlakerfan wrote:
Kuzma and Randle are the 2 best Lakers on the court so far this year.

Start Kuzma at the 3 and Randle at the 4. Without Randle there will be no rebounding. Kuzma keeps the offensive flowing while BI has been a bit of a ball stopper.

Power subs: Clarkson, BI, Nance, Zubac and Ennis. Let BI lead that unit before he tries to lead the whole team.


justsomelakerfan wrote:
I don't really think this is a debate anymore. Start him at 3 with Julius and see how it goes with Lopez. Sub JR out with Nance if they're looking for more defense.


markjay wrote:
I think a starting lineup with Lonzo at the 1, Kuz at the 3, Randle at the 4, and Lopez at the 5 could do some damage.


Fracture wrote:
MJST wrote:
Kuzma should start in front of Ingram.

I really don't think there's any true argument against it at this point outside of "but Ingram's potential, potential!"


Yup, I'm convinced.

Let Ingram develop off the bench.


MAJIC wrote:
To quote Tony Montana from a neat little flick called Scarface, "The eyes chico, they never lie."

What our eyes have seen is quite clear, from a skill-set standpoint, Kuzma is leaps and bounds superior to BI.


Car54 wrote:
Ingram isn't ready. Kuz should start at SF. He showed he can work with Randle and Zo. His offense is waaaaaaaay better and his passing is better.


venturalakersfan wrote:
Chronicle wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Jordan-esque wrote:
Lost in all the scoring hoopla is that Kuzma has also been playing defense well, at least in that last game he was always on his man and contesting shots, always active and moving and helping out teammates. He could end up being one of the Laker's better defenders.


He has good awareness and effort but is weak physically against bigger players, he gets pushed around easily. A year of development will help with that.


And why he should play SF!


I agree
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:12 am    Post subject:

Yeah I don't think this is even a debate anymore. Reminds me of what GT or Darius was saying on the podcast way back in the summer about Deng starting which was they didn't mind if he won the role, they did mind if he was getting the start just because he's a vet.

I feel the same way about Kuz/BI. Ingram has shown me nothing in these preseason games to suggest he deserves to start. I'm not jumping on him like some are but the fact remains you've got BI starting right now, not shooting well, stopping the ball with ISOs and then you've got Kuzma on an absolute tear and playing fast, smart ball.

It's a simple decision. Personally I think you take some of the spotlight off Ingram and let him work his problems out against bench players it can help him out of this funk.

Basically Kuzma deserves it more than any other 3 on this squad. Starting Ingram with the body of evidence we've had from preseason is just being stubborn.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:33 am    Post subject:

#KuzControl
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:43 am    Post subject:

Lakers 4 eva wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Lakers 4 eva wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
And again it isnít about the best players it is about best fit. Nance is starting tonight, does anyone think he is a better player than Kuzma and Randle? No, but he seems to be a better fit with Lopez. Randle and Kuzma have shown good chemistry on the court, they can do well against other second units and finish games for us. We want an unselfish team and this is players being unselfish.


Really? You're going to push this best fit agenda? Problem with this is Kuzma fits better in any lineup than Nance does. What exactly does Nance provide better? Defense? I'm sorry but no defender on this team is worth playing over the scoring Kuzma provides.


I guess if you choose to ignore defense. But then you donít win many ball games. I am glad to see that our coaches arenít doing that. They understand that the NBA has always been about matchups.


You a comedian? What exactly about this team screams defense to you? Luke keeps talking about it but nothings changed. Lakers will be bottom 3 in defense once again. Are you actually watching the games because from what I have seen last year and in the preaseason so far tells me other wise unless you have some numbers to back the crap you are spewing.


Actually, as often is the case when we take an either/or position, it's both. You can't justify using better "fitting" players if Zubac, Caruso, and whomever fit best. It's a matter of finding the best players that fit the best.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:53 am    Post subject:

Honestly there is no justification for not starting Kuzma, he is clearly our best player and brings the swagger that our team desperately needs. This goes for Clarkson as well, I',m not a fan of his but he should also be a starter, I don't know why he's been given this tag of being 6th man. Yes maybe on a playoff team with solid starters he can be 6th man but Pope clearly is not the solution at the sg position and Kuz has shown more in these few games than Ingram has in the whole year last season and thus far this pre-season.

My proposed starting lineup for opening night

Lopez
Randle
Kuzma
Clarkson
Lonzo
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:58 am    Post subject:

LB2 wrote:
I like these lineups

Lonzo
KCP
KUZ
Nance
Lopez

Caruso
Hart
Ingram
Randle
Bogut

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:03 am    Post subject:

Lakers 4 eva wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Lakers 4 eva wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Lakers 4 eva wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
And again it isnít about the best players it is about best fit. Nance is starting tonight, does anyone think he is a better player than Kuzma and Randle? No, but he seems to be a better fit with Lopez. Randle and Kuzma have shown good chemistry on the court, they can do well against other second units and finish games for us. We want an unselfish team and this is players being unselfish.


Really? You're going to push this best fit agenda? Problem with this is Kuzma fits better in any lineup than Nance does. What exactly does Nance provide better? Defense? I'm sorry but no defender on this team is worth playing over the scoring Kuzma provides.


I guess if you choose to ignore defense. But then you donít win many ball games. I am glad to see that our coaches arenít doing that. They understand that the NBA has always been about matchups.


You a comedian? What exactly about this team screams defense to you? Luke keeps talking about it but nothings changed. Lakers will be bottom 3 in defense once again. Are you actually watching the games because from what I have seen last year and in the preaseason so far tells me other wise unless you have some numbers to back the crap you are spewing.


Their last game screams defense to me and we get another chance tonight to see if it carries over.


Yes we will see tonight. I must have watched a different game because Sac looked like they missed a bunch of open shots. They look like a team worse than us.


And the lineup looked good once again
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:06 am    Post subject:

LB2 wrote:
I like these lineups

Lonzo
KCP
KUZ
Nance
Lopez

Caruso
Hart
Ingram
Randle
Bogut


Bogut has looked great showing he deserves that spot
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