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babyskyhook
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 Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | Honestly, I am having a hard time with the big fascination (by some) for Aaron Gordon. It's possible that his hot first couple of months shooting the 3 was a mirage, and if you take that away, what you have more than anything is...potential? Let's just take Julius Randle compared to him this season. Even without a 3-ball, Randle is dwarfing Gordon in TS % (with a similar usage rate), he's a better defender, he's a better rebounder, and he's less than a year older.
Teams can knock themselves out for Gordon, as far as I'm concerned, if he gets anywhere close to $25MM a year. People are talking about Julius being lucky to crack $10MM a year, and I'm not even convinced that I'd rather have Gordon going forward for the same money. |
B/c teams are more enamored with high flyers like Gordon and don't care as much about lunchpail guys like Jules. |
Guys like Gordon help bad teams sell tickets.
Guys like Randle help good teams compete for championships.
Not surprising all three of us have long been in favor of giving up 2 firsts to move Deng to keep JR. 
Last edited by babyskyhook on Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:44 am; edited 1 time in total |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| babyskyhook wrote: | | PHILosophize wrote: | | Jesusdelonla wrote: | | PHILosophize wrote: | | 14 mil for Randle sounds too high to me in this market |
8-10 |
exactly |
$8 will be the mle. Lakers should be able to keep him for $10m/ 4 years. |
Yeah, what's the point of offering him a MLE b/c the Lakers likely match that. Honestly think 12-14m may be the range, maybe 10-14m if he wants to stay with the Lakers.
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adkindo
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| PHILosophize wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | PHILosophize wrote: | | NY is the only legitimate big city in the US - all others are medium sized cities |
shiiiit, have you ever been to Orlando?  |
once in like eighth grade  |
dude, we have came so far....new basketball arena and Universal built The Wizarding World of Harry Potter.....bet Tokyo does not have a Harry Potter World.  |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| babyskyhook wrote: | | cyborgspider wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | | https://twitter.com/bleacherreport/status/966340412326776832 |
And when his contract gets matched by Orlando, all three teams would then go after Julius Randle (ehhh, maybe not Phoenix, but Dallas will roll out the red carpet for him. And Indy needs more young talent). |
I don't see any of them pursuing JR, but that's fine if they do, and even better if they go after Gordon first.
Even if Orlando ended up matching, they'd most likely wait the full three days, which would mean the Lakers would have until July 12th to match any offer that those teams might make if they go for Gordon first.
More than enough time to know what's happening with PG/Bron, and to make a deal to move Deng if the 2 maxes are coming. |
They have 2 days to match, not 3
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Roon
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| babyskyhook wrote: | | PHILosophize wrote: | | Jesusdelonla wrote: | | PHILosophize wrote: | | 14 mil for Randle sounds too high to me in this market |
8-10 |
exactly |
$8 will be the mle. Lakers should be able to keep him for $10m/ 4 years. |
You think so? That would be excellent. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| babyskyhook wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | Honestly, I am having a hard time with the big fascination (by some) for Aaron Gordon. It's possible that his hot first couple of months shooting the 3 was a mirage, and if you take that away, what you have more than anything is...potential? Let's just take Julius Randle compared to him this season. Even without a 3-ball, Randle is dwarfing Gordon in TS % (with a similar usage rate), he's a better defender, he's a better rebounder, and he's less than a year older.
Teams can knock themselves out for Gordon, as far as I'm concerned, if he gets anywhere close to $25MM a year. People are talking about Julius being lucky to crack $10MM a year, and I'm not even convinced that I'd rather have Gordon going forward for the same money. |
B/c teams are more enamored with high flyers like Gordon and don't care as much about lunchpail guys like Jules. |
Guys like Gordon help bad teams sell tickets.
Guys like Randle help good teams compete for championships. I'm assuming that's why all three of us have long been in favor of giving up 2 firsts to move Deng to keep JR. |
Yup. Say we get max FAs, would rather have Jules over Gordon all day.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| 32 wrote: | | Cap space is king this summer. |
I think less so than next offseason (2019).
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adkindo
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| I like Randle....but Gordon's ceiling is higher by a decent margin in my opinion....If someone told me I could have Randle or Gordon on my team....I am taking Gordon 10 out of 10 times. |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:48 am Post subject: |
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| PHILosophize wrote: | | Jesusdelonla wrote: | | PHILosophize wrote: | | 14 mil for Randle sounds too high to me in this market |
8-10 |
exactly |
$8M may be too low...I think $10M is about right. Not matching anything over $12M.....unless we signed both Lebron and PG-13. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | I like Randle....but Gordon's ceiling is higher by a decent margin in my opinion....If someone told me I could have Randle or Gordon on my team....I am taking Gordon 10 out of 10 times. |
Even in the context of having LBJ/PG13? Can Gordon play small ball center?
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babyskyhook
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:50 am Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | cyborgspider wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | | https://twitter.com/bleacherreport/status/966340412326776832 |
And when his contract gets matched by Orlando, all three teams would then go after Julius Randle (ehhh, maybe not Phoenix, but Dallas will roll out the red carpet for him. And Indy needs more young talent). |
Are we certain that Orlando would match a full max, $25MM starting salary for him? Yes, Gordon has some talent, but he's not exactly erupted yet, and his improvement in shooting the 3-ball still has him at a .346 mark overall on the year, a mark that has been dropping precipitously with each passing month. |
I do not think Orlando would consider matching a full max.....there is a lot of speculation that Orlando will not be bidding high to keep Gordon....they like him, and will pay him as a player they "like" not one they "love". My speculation is anything over a $17-$18 Million offer and that team has bought themselves a PF. |
I think they have to match on him. They gave away Payton for peanuts. Hezonja could sign anywhere. They traded Sabonis and Oladipo for Ibaka (who's gone now). That'd be 5 lottery picks gone for basically nothing. He's the closest thing they've had to a star since Dwight. They have to keep him. |
They've got an entirely new management team, so they can basically do anything they want and blame it on the old regime. Hennigan was truly horrible.
Isaac is the only guy they drafted. |
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babyskyhook
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:55 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | babyskyhook wrote: | | cyborgspider wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | | https://twitter.com/bleacherreport/status/966340412326776832 |
And when his contract gets matched by Orlando, all three teams would then go after Julius Randle (ehhh, maybe not Phoenix, but Dallas will roll out the red carpet for him. And Indy needs more young talent). |
I don't see any of them pursuing JR, but that's fine if they do, and even better if they go after Gordon first.
Even if Orlando ended up matching, they'd most likely wait the full three days, which would mean the Lakers would have until July 12th to match any offer that those teams might make if they go for Gordon first.
More than enough time to know what's happening with PG/Bron, and to make a deal to move Deng if the 2 maxes are coming. |
They have 2 days to match, not 3 |
You're right VLF. I forgot that reduced the matching period from 3 days to two days in the last CBA. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:57 am Post subject: |
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But with “physicals” they can stretch that time out.
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babyskyhook
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | I like Randle....but Gordon's ceiling is higher by a decent margin in my opinion....If someone told me I could have Randle or Gordon on my team....I am taking Gordon 10 out of 10 times. |
Even in the context of having LBJ/PG13? Can Gordon play small ball center? |
I can see the argument for Gordon on a team that's building from the ground up, as he has shown at least the potential to hit 3s, but I'd much rather have JR if we can get two maxes. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| babyskyhook wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | I like Randle....but Gordon's ceiling is higher by a decent margin in my opinion....If someone told me I could have Randle or Gordon on my team....I am taking Gordon 10 out of 10 times. |
Even in the context of having LBJ/PG13? Can Gordon play small ball center? |
I can see the argument for Gordon on a team that's building from the ground up, as he has shown at least the potential to hit 3s, but I'd much rather have JR if we can get two maxes. |
Yup. Though the Magic haven’t exactly done better than the Lakers with Gordon as their lead guy wins wise
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Laker's Fan
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:00 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | babyskyhook wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | Honestly, I am having a hard time with the big fascination (by some) for Aaron Gordon. It's possible that his hot first couple of months shooting the 3 was a mirage, and if you take that away, what you have more than anything is...potential? Let's just take Julius Randle compared to him this season. Even without a 3-ball, Randle is dwarfing Gordon in TS % (with a similar usage rate), he's a better defender, he's a better rebounder, and he's less than a year older.
Teams can knock themselves out for Gordon, as far as I'm concerned, if he gets anywhere close to $25MM a year. People are talking about Julius being lucky to crack $10MM a year, and I'm not even convinced that I'd rather have Gordon going forward for the same money. |
B/c teams are more enamored with high flyers like Gordon and don't care as much about lunchpail guys like Jules. |
Guys like Gordon help bad teams sell tickets.
Guys like Randle help good teams compete for championships. I'm assuming that's why all three of us have long been in favor of giving up 2 firsts to move Deng to keep JR. |
Yup. Say we get max FAs, would rather have Jules over Gordon all day. |
Head to head I think Jules is too much of a load for Gordon to handle. But in term of who is the more attractive free agent.....
Gordon shoots 34.6% on 5.8 3PA per game. Randle shoots 22.5% on 0.7 3PA per game. Both are good finishers in PnR. Overall, there's a world of difference in how you can fit AG in an offense than Randle. You can also make a pretty strong case that Gordon is the better defender too.
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babyskyhook
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:01 am Post subject: |
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| Roon wrote: | | babyskyhook wrote: | | PHILosophize wrote: | | Jesusdelonla wrote: | | PHILosophize wrote: | | 14 mil for Randle sounds too high to me in this market |
8-10 |
exactly |
$8 will be the mle. Lakers should be able to keep him for $10m/ 4 years. |
You think so? That would be excellent. |
I don't think any of the teams with space are going to pursue him. He'd be an outstanding addition to a contender or low-level playoff team at the mle.
If it plays out that way, $40m is a lot to pass up, especially given that Lou signed with the Clips at $8m. That sort of set the market for this summer, but it's because of the lack of space. |
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PRLakeShow
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:10 am Post subject: |
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| babyskyhook wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | Honestly, I am having a hard time with the big fascination (by some) for Aaron Gordon. It's possible that his hot first couple of months shooting the 3 was a mirage, and if you take that away, what you have more than anything is...potential? Let's just take Julius Randle compared to him this season. Even without a 3-ball, Randle is dwarfing Gordon in TS % (with a similar usage rate), he's a better defender, he's a better rebounder, and he's less than a year older.
Teams can knock themselves out for Gordon, as far as I'm concerned, if he gets anywhere close to $25MM a year. People are talking about Julius being lucky to crack $10MM a year, and I'm not even convinced that I'd rather have Gordon going forward for the same money. |
B/c teams are more enamored with high flyers like Gordon and don't care as much about lunchpail guys like Jules. |
Guys like Gordon help bad teams sell tickets.
Guys like Randle help good teams compete for championships.
Not surprising all three of us have long been in favor of giving up 2 firsts to move Deng to keep JR. |
I remember a lot of discussions with yinomes over the summer about Randle. He was not 100% in favor of trading picks with Deng to keep Randle. Not sure if he was completely against it either.
Last edited by PRLakeShow on Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:12 am; edited 1 time in total |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:11 am Post subject: |
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| PRLakeShow wrote: | | babyskyhook wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | Honestly, I am having a hard time with the big fascination (by some) for Aaron Gordon. It's possible that his hot first couple of months shooting the 3 was a mirage, and if you take that away, what you have more than anything is...potential? Let's just take Julius Randle compared to him this season. Even without a 3-ball, Randle is dwarfing Gordon in TS % (with a similar usage rate), he's a better defender, he's a better rebounder, and he's less than a year older.
Teams can knock themselves out for Gordon, as far as I'm concerned, if he gets anywhere close to $25MM a year. People are talking about Julius being lucky to crack $10MM a year, and I'm not even convinced that I'd rather have Gordon going forward for the same money. |
B/c teams are more enamored with high flyers like Gordon and don't care as much about lunchpail guys like Jules. |
Guys like Gordon help bad teams sell tickets.
Guys like Randle help good teams compete for championships.
Not surprising all three of us have long been in favor of giving up 2 firsts to move Deng to keep JR. |
I remember a lot of discussion with yinomes over the summer about Randle. He was not 100% in favor of trading picks with Deng to keep Randle. Not sure if he was completely against it either. |
I have an open mind and Jules has changed my mind to where I would be open to attaching picks to trade Deng to keep Jules.
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PRLakeShow
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | PRLakeShow wrote: | | babyskyhook wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | Honestly, I am having a hard time with the big fascination (by some) for Aaron Gordon. It's possible that his hot first couple of months shooting the 3 was a mirage, and if you take that away, what you have more than anything is...potential? Let's just take Julius Randle compared to him this season. Even without a 3-ball, Randle is dwarfing Gordon in TS % (with a similar usage rate), he's a better defender, he's a better rebounder, and he's less than a year older.
Teams can knock themselves out for Gordon, as far as I'm concerned, if he gets anywhere close to $25MM a year. People are talking about Julius being lucky to crack $10MM a year, and I'm not even convinced that I'd rather have Gordon going forward for the same money. |
B/c teams are more enamored with high flyers like Gordon and don't care as much about lunchpail guys like Jules. |
Guys like Gordon help bad teams sell tickets.
Guys like Randle help good teams compete for championships.
Not surprising all three of us have long been in favor of giving up 2 firsts to move Deng to keep JR. |
I remember a lot of discussion with yinomes over the summer about Randle. He was not 100% in favor of trading picks with Deng to keep Randle. Not sure if he was completely against it either. |
I have an open mind and Jules has changed my mind to where I would be open to attaching picks to trade Deng to keep Jules. |
Good to know.  |
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babyskyhook
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:13 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | PRLakeShow wrote: | | babyskyhook wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | Honestly, I am having a hard time with the big fascination (by some) for Aaron Gordon. It's possible that his hot first couple of months shooting the 3 was a mirage, and if you take that away, what you have more than anything is...potential? Let's just take Julius Randle compared to him this season. Even without a 3-ball, Randle is dwarfing Gordon in TS % (with a similar usage rate), he's a better defender, he's a better rebounder, and he's less than a year older.
Teams can knock themselves out for Gordon, as far as I'm concerned, if he gets anywhere close to $25MM a year. People are talking about Julius being lucky to crack $10MM a year, and I'm not even convinced that I'd rather have Gordon going forward for the same money. |
B/c teams are more enamored with high flyers like Gordon and don't care as much about lunchpail guys like Jules. |
Guys like Gordon help bad teams sell tickets.
Guys like Randle help good teams compete for championships.
Not surprising all three of us have long been in favor of giving up 2 firsts to move Deng to keep JR. |
I remember a lot of discussion with yinomes over the summer about Randle. He was not 100% in favor of trading picks with Deng to keep Randle. Not sure if he was completely against it either. |
I have an open mind and Jules has changed my mind to where I would be open to attaching picks to trade Deng to keep Jules. |
Yeah- I remember you getting on board pretty early this season. |
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trablos
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:13 am Post subject: |
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I'm just here to say do it Mitch   |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| PRLakeShow wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | PRLakeShow wrote: | | babyskyhook wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | Honestly, I am having a hard time with the big fascination (by some) for Aaron Gordon. It's possible that his hot first couple of months shooting the 3 was a mirage, and if you take that away, what you have more than anything is...potential? Let's just take Julius Randle compared to him this season. Even without a 3-ball, Randle is dwarfing Gordon in TS % (with a similar usage rate), he's a better defender, he's a better rebounder, and he's less than a year older.
Teams can knock themselves out for Gordon, as far as I'm concerned, if he gets anywhere close to $25MM a year. People are talking about Julius being lucky to crack $10MM a year, and I'm not even convinced that I'd rather have Gordon going forward for the same money. |
B/c teams are more enamored with high flyers like Gordon and don't care as much about lunchpail guys like Jules. |
Guys like Gordon help bad teams sell tickets.
Guys like Randle help good teams compete for championships.
Not surprising all three of us have long been in favor of giving up 2 firsts to move Deng to keep JR. |
I remember a lot of discussion with yinomes over the summer about Randle. He was not 100% in favor of trading picks with Deng to keep Randle. Not sure if he was completely against it either. |
I have an open mind and Jules has changed my mind to where I would be open to attaching picks to trade Deng to keep Jules. |
Good to know. |
Also remember that at the time, we didn't have a 2018 pick so the thought of trading 2019/21 wasn't great to me. Now we could offer the 2018 Cavs pick and the 2019 (are there Stepien issues?). The Cavs pick was obtained for trading off a contract that needed to be moved anyways in JC so it's like house money.
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PRLakeShow
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Also remember that at the time, we didn't have a 2018 pick so the thought of trading 2019/21 wasn't great to me. Now we could offer the 2018 Cavs pick and the 2019 (are there Stepien issues?). The Cavs pick was obtained for trading off a contract that needed to be moved anyways in JC so it's like house money. |
The Stepien rule will affect us till we draft someone with the 2018 Cavs pick. After that, we can trade the 2019 pick with no issues. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| PRLakeShow wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Also remember that at the time, we didn't have a 2018 pick so the thought of trading 2019/21 wasn't great to me. Now we could offer the 2018 Cavs pick and the 2019 (are there Stepien issues?). The Cavs pick was obtained for trading off a contract that needed to be moved anyways in JC so it's like house money. |
The Stepien rule will affect us till we draft someone with the 2018 Cavs pick. After that, we can trade the 2019 pick with no issues. |
So we draft on behalf of the team taking Deng? It gets dicey, no, b/c the deal will have to be in place for the draft which is b/f free agency.
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