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PRLakeShow
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Joined: 07 Oct 2016
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 Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | PRLakeShow wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Also remember that at the time, we didn't have a 2018 pick so the thought of trading 2019/21 wasn't great to me. Now we could offer the 2018 Cavs pick and the 2019 (are there Stepien issues?). The Cavs pick was obtained for trading off a contract that needed to be moved anyways in JC so it's like house money. |
The Stepien rule will affect us till we draft someone with the 2018 Cavs pick. After that, we can trade the 2019 pick with no issues. |
So we draft on behalf of the team taking Deng? It gets dicey, no, b/c the deal will have to be in place for the draft which is b/f free agency. |
Yeah. The value of that pick goes down when we draft someone for OUR team. Magic might need to tamper to know about PG/LeBron before the Draft.  |
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Sentient Meat
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Joined: 04 Jul 2014
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:50 am Post subject: |
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Gordon's TS% has gone from 52 to 55 in three seasons.
Randle's has gone from 48 to 60.
My thought is that what if Randle develops a three as he can shoot FTs.
I also started out as a Randle detractor, but he's converted me somewhat with his consistent improvement. The plus to Gordon is that he's more athletic (in the basketball sense) and has a track record of being able to shoot threes while Jules has almost none. But if Julius somehow started shooting at that decent 35% level then he becomes the more valuable player, I'd think. |
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SDLakersFan
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Joined: 01 Apr 2012
Posts: 2044
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | Gordon's TS% has gone from 52 to 55 in three seasons.
Randle's has gone from 48 to 60.
My thought is that what if Randle develops a three as he can shoot FTs.
I also started out as a Randle detractor, but he's converted me somewhat with his consistent improvement. The plus to Gordon is that he's more athletic (in the basketball sense) and has a track record of being able to shoot threes while Jules has almost none. But if Julius somehow started shooting at that decent 35% level then he becomes the more valuable player, I'd think. |
Julius likes to play old school physical ball in the post. And Kuzma is the stretch 4. We're covered at the PF spot. |
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LakerSD
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PRLakeShow
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Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 10460
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSD wrote: | https://twitter.com/bengolliver/status/966412040813166592
$600K fine for Cuban  |
Didn't know they could fine him for that. Hefty fine. |
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PHILosophize
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Joined: 05 Nov 2012
Posts: 10758
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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Lonzo, Tiny Dog and a 1st for Dejounte Murray, Danny Green and Kawhi.
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rogers49
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | I think Jules will get 12-14m. |
Too much.
You are too generous.
If I remember well, you thought too, at first, JC contract was a bargain when it really was greatly overpriced. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| rogers49 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I think Jules will get 12-14m. |
Too much.
You are too generous.
If I remember well, you thought too, at first, JC contract was a bargain when it really was greatly overpriced. |
JC? No. I didn't think it was a bargain at 4 years/50m.
MLE is unlikely b/c Lakers will match that low ball. Then you're at 10-14m range. The high number is if a team like Dallas gets involved.
Some folks here thought Jules would get a max (25m) or 20m, that's a high range.
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rogers49
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| PHILosophize wrote: | | 14 mil for Randle sounds too high to me in this market |
Midlevel, no more.
If he wants more, ha can get it from another team. |
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RG73
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSD wrote: | https://twitter.com/bengolliver/status/966412040813166592
$600K fine for Cuban :o |
And I am pretty certain the lottery balls won't bounce favorably for Cuban either.... |
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rogers49
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | Some interesting expiring deals (meaning punt contracts to 2019).
LMA
Rubio
Lamb
Aminu
Taj
Jamychal Green
R.Lopez
T.Chandler
Vucevic |
I'll cut it down to Rubio. |
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rogers49
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | PRLakeShow wrote: | | babyskyhook wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | Honestly, I am having a hard time with the big fascination (by some) for Aaron Gordon. It's possible that his hot first couple of months shooting the 3 was a mirage, and if you take that away, what you have more than anything is...potential? Let's just take Julius Randle compared to him this season. Even without a 3-ball, Randle is dwarfing Gordon in TS % (with a similar usage rate), he's a better defender, he's a better rebounder, and he's less than a year older.
Teams can knock themselves out for Gordon, as far as I'm concerned, if he gets anywhere close to $25MM a year. People are talking about Julius being lucky to crack $10MM a year, and I'm not even convinced that I'd rather have Gordon going forward for the same money. |
B/c teams are more enamored with high flyers like Gordon and don't care as much about lunchpail guys like Jules. |
Guys like Gordon help bad teams sell tickets.
Guys like Randle help good teams compete for championships.
Not surprising all three of us have long been in favor of giving up 2 firsts to move Deng to keep JR.  |
I remember a lot of discussion with yinomes over the summer about Randle. He was not 100% in favor of trading picks with Deng to keep Randle. Not sure if he was completely against it either. |
I have an open mind and Jules has changed my mind to where I would be open to attaching picks to trade Deng to keep Jules. |
And I would not, because JR is not worth a 1st round pick, let alone the 2 1sts you would had to ship off to unload Deng's mummy. |
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rogers49
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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| trablos wrote: | I'm just here to say do it Mitch   |
Charlotte and MJ are waiting Luol with open arms  |
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JPaulK0n
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Wildchild027
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| PRLakeShow wrote: | | Wildchild027 wrote: | | PRLakeShow wrote: | | Let's hope Jabari Parker has good playoff performances. That would add another legitimate RFA PF. My hope is that Randle takes the QO. |
I don't see that happening. No RFA has ever taken the QO in the first two weeks of free agency. He would have to do that, if the goal is to sign LBJ and PG. |
It's unlikely but that is my hope.
As for your reasoning, we can get commitments from the two maxes and then wait on Randle. They'll be waiting for a possible Deng trade anyway assuming the FO likes Randle enough. The two maxes don't have to sign immediately. |
The top guys usually commit and then the teams start clearing the capspace. A Deng trade would likely be discuss around draft time. From my experience, the team who gets the max guys, renounce their free agents. GS did it with Barnes and Ezeli. Boston did it with Olunyk. |
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fansincemagic
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | Gordon's TS% has gone from 52 to 55 in three seasons.
Randle's has gone from 48 to 60.
My thought is that what if Randle develops a three as he can shoot FTs.
I also started out as a Randle detractor, but he's converted me somewhat with his consistent improvement. The plus to Gordon is that he's more athletic (in the basketball sense) and has a track record of being able to shoot threes while Jules has almost none. But if Julius somehow started shooting at that decent 35% level then he becomes the more valuable player, I'd think. |
Range would be great but consider how good he would be if he could just use his right hand somewhat. |
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PRLakeShow
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Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 10460
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Wildchild027 wrote: | | PRLakeShow wrote: | | Wildchild027 wrote: | | PRLakeShow wrote: | | Let's hope Jabari Parker has good playoff performances. That would add another legitimate RFA PF. My hope is that Randle takes the QO. |
I don't see that happening. No RFA has ever taken the QO in the first two weeks of free agency. He would have to do that, if the goal is to sign LBJ and PG. |
It's unlikely but that is my hope.
As for your reasoning, we can get commitments from the two maxes and then wait on Randle. They'll be waiting for a possible Deng trade anyway assuming the FO likes Randle enough. The two maxes don't have to sign immediately. |
The top guys usually commit and then the teams start clearing the capspace. A Deng trade would likely be discuss around draft time. From my experience, the team who gets the max guys, renounce their free agents. GS did it with Barnes and Ezeli. Boston did it with Olunyk. |
We have no need to trade Deng before max guys commit. |
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LakerSD
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| RG73 wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | https://twitter.com/bengolliver/status/966412040813166592
$600K fine for Cuban |
And I am pretty certain the lottery balls won't bounce favorably for Cuban either.... |
Yeah I don’t think so either after the tanking comments. |
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Omar Little
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Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSD wrote: | https://twitter.com/bengolliver/status/966412040813166592
$600K fine for Cuban |
They should fine him in artificial wins added to his team's total for lotto purposes. Make the punishment fit the crime.
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davidse
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Joined: 03 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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Re: Randle contract size - it needs to take into account our overall cap/roster situation.
If we intend to go shopping again next summer - then obviously you sign him to the "best" possible contract over long term, probably around 10 mil starting salary, or more likely start a little higher and have his salary dip next summer.
And obviously there's also a chance you don't match a huge offer he gets, although I don't see him getting one.
But if we get PG, maybe even PG and Lebron and dump Deng using picks, we need to make sure Randle's salary is big enough to be able to trade for a star who might shake loose at the deadline and then it's much better to overpay him for a shorter deal rather than give him the least amount of money over long term.
Perhaps even something like 2 years at max with 3rd as team option, which would help us trade for a possible star on the market at the deadline + take a bad contract as extra incentive.
If our cap room is basically done for in the next few years, it might be in our best interest to have Randle make more money.
So the issue of how much would/should we pay Randle can only be answered after asking/answering other questions/issues regarding our 2018/19 offseason and roster. |
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rogers49
Star Player
Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 1182
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| davidse wrote: | Re: Randle contract size - it needs to take into account our overall cap/roster situation.
If we intend to go shopping again next summer - then obviously you sign him to the "best" possible contract over long term, probably around 10 mil starting salary, or more likely start a little higher and have his salary dip next summer.
And obviously there's also a chance you don't match a huge offer he gets, although I don't see him getting one.
But if we get PG, maybe even PG and Lebron and dump Deng using picks, we need to make sure Randle's salary is big enough to be able to trade for a star who might shake loose at the deadline and then it's much better to overpay him for a shorter deal rather than give him the least amount of money over long term.
Perhaps even something like 2 years at max with 3rd as team option, which would help us trade for a possible star on the market at the deadline + take a bad contract as extra incentive.
If our cap room is basically done for in the next few years, it might be in our best interest to have Randle make more money.
So the issue of how much would/should we pay Randle can only be answered after asking/answering other questions/issues regarding our 2018/19 offseason and roster. |
It's always in the WORST interest of anyone to overpay somebody. |
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davidse
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Joined: 03 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | Some interesting expiring deals (meaning punt contracts to 2019).
LMA
Rubio
Lamb
Aminu
Taj
Jamychal Green
R.Lopez
T.Chandler
Vucevic |
I think the most interesting name for us is Bayless.
I think the Sixers are likely to want him gone for cap room, I think we can use him on the court, and they even have the right type of assets - whether it's 2 2nd rd picks in the 30's at worst, or their 22nd'ish pick in the draft. |
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LakerSD
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PHILosophize
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Joined: 05 Nov 2012
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSD wrote: | | https://twitter.com/mikecwright/status/966450150750203904 |
Disregard my earlier trade proposal.
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davidse
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| rogers49 wrote: | | davidse wrote: | Re: Randle contract size - it needs to take into account our overall cap/roster situation.
If we intend to go shopping again next summer - then obviously you sign him to the "best" possible contract over long term, probably around 10 mil starting salary, or more likely start a little higher and have his salary dip next summer.
And obviously there's also a chance you don't match a huge offer he gets, although I don't see him getting one.
But if we get PG, maybe even PG and Lebron and dump Deng using picks, we need to make sure Randle's salary is big enough to be able to trade for a star who might shake loose at the deadline and then it's much better to overpay him for a shorter deal rather than give him the least amount of money over long term.
Perhaps even something like 2 years at max with 3rd as team option, which would help us trade for a possible star on the market at the deadline + take a bad contract as extra incentive.
If our cap room is basically done for in the next few years, it might be in our best interest to have Randle make more money.
So the issue of how much would/should we pay Randle can only be answered after asking/answering other questions/issues regarding our 2018/19 offseason and roster. |
It's always in the WORST interest of anyone to overpay somebody. |
No it isn't.
Or would you rather have this 4 year Deng disaster or have him make max money for 2 years ?
Would you like us to become the current Celtics if a star player making max money goes on the block - having to basically gut our roster to be able to trade for him ?
Or have one young expendable player making enough money to make that trade ?
The decision and strategy need to look much deeper than your approach. |
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