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fontana3d
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 Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:57 am Post subject: |
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| WindyCityLakerFan wrote: | | fontana3d wrote: | | davidse wrote: | | parsons777 wrote: | 3 Max, How much would Cousins, PG and Lebron have to give up to fit and what would the team look like?
Assumptions:
1 We do not use the Pincus Gambit ( although that sounds great ), but rather trade Deng with whatever it takes, likely two relatively unprotected ( Top 3 only? ) picks, plus Zubac ( someone is going to want to take a flyer on that kid based on a couple games last year ).
2 We can move JC for nothing.
3 We can trade/waive/renounce everyone else, except: Kuzma, Ingram and Ball.
Total Cap for the 3 keepers: $14.9 mill
Holds for 12 slots: $7 mill
Total: $21.9 mill
Cap: $101
Remainder: $79.1
PG: 3 year deal, $28 mill first year, 5% raises, 3rd year player option
Cousins: 2 year deal, $28 mill first year, 5% raises, 2nd year player option
Lebron: 2 year deal, $23 mill first year, 5% raises, 2nd year player option
Why does PG want a 3 year deal and Cousins 2 instead of 4 year deals? Because PG is an 8 yr vet this summer and Cousins 9. So, they want 10 year vet contracts during their option years.
How would that work for Cousins? 10 year vet can get 35%, while 9 only 30%. But you might say, hey Cousins will not be a Bird or Early Bird free agent, so how much can we increase his salary from year 1 $28 mill? Glad you asked. Per the NBA FAQ a non-Bird FA can be paid 120% of his previous salary ( $28 * 1.2 = $33.6 mill ). The max Cousins could make, if he is not on an all NBA team, is 30% his first year $30.3 mill and 35% his second ( $108 * .35 = $37.8 mill ). So, Cousins would lose out on $2.3 mill in year 1 and about $3 mill in year 2 ( b/c he cannot actually get to the $37.8 ). By this summer, Cousins will have earned $80 mill in total salary. Would he give up $5 mill to play with PG and Lebron? I have no idea.
The numbers are very similar for PG. He ends up with an initial 3 year deal, which he opts out of after 2 years and so has Early Bird rights, meaning we can increase his salary by 130% over his year 2 salary starting year 3.
Lebron takes the biggest hit, but the man has earned, in salary alone, wait for it, $233 mill by this summer. Would he give up some $ for ring 4 and 5? I think he would.
Starters: PG Lonzo, SG Room Mid-Level Exception $4.3 mill, SF PG, PF Lebron, C Cousins
Bench: Ingram and Kuzma and a bunch of vet min guys. While these two will hate going to the bench, they will obliterate other teams benches next year. |
Imo, the right way to do the 3 "max" is for Lebron to basically agree to take the "rest" of the cap space after Boogie/PG get their maxes (around 17 mil $ if we can Dump Deng with 2 future 1sts, or even less than that if we can't), and then you go to the Cavs a-la Chris Paul/Clippers.
You offer Deng, Nance, and 2 1st rd picks.
Cavs can't turn that down, and if they do - the Pelicans won't...
In this scenario, Lebron can get about 25 mil, and you can increase that to 30 mil $ by adding Hart, Zubac, Bryant to the deal.
And of course there's the possibility of Boogie/PG each sacraficing a million for Lebron, but the safer bet is Lebron sacrificing the money.
He can't afford to make this move and fail - which he will if he only joins 1 "max" player in LA. |
So basically in a long shot NO or Cleveland would do a sign and trade deal. Unless NO wants to trade Cousins at the deadline and instead of Nance they take Randle instead, and then Lakers get his bird rights. |
Another option is to hope okc doesn't work out and decides to trade George. He has a player option at 19 million. If he opts in that creates more cap space. You can then extend him the following season |
Remember OKC is in the repeater tax area now so I don't think we can him them with that by ourselves it most likely needs a third team. |
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32
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Joined: 04 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:32 am Post subject: |
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Sorry I have been out of the loop. Does anybody have an estimate on how much money Randle could command in his new contract?
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Nobody in the NBA can touch the Laker brand, which, like the uniform color, is pure gold. |
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32
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:38 am Post subject: |
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| TheeChosenLonzo wrote: | who wants to play with top 2 center in the league. i guess nobody  |
Not me. Some would argue he is #1. He is 27 and just entering his prime. His talent way over rules his intermittent behavior issues.
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Nobody in the NBA can touch the Laker brand, which, like the uniform color, is pure gold. |
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Bard207
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:25 am Post subject: |
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| 32 wrote: | | Sorry I have been out of the loop. Does anybody have an estimate on how much money Randle could command in his new contract? |
Your query is somewhat fuzzy.
In theory, 25% of the salary cap for the first season with non compounded raises 8% after that.
25. What are salary cap exceptions?
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LARRY BIRD EXCEPTION -- This exception allows teams to exceed the cap in order to re-sign their own free agents, up to the player's maximum salary. Teams are said to have "Bird rights" to players who qualify. To qualify for this exception a player essentially must play for three seasons without clearing waivers or changing teams as a free agent, however there are nuances to this rule, which are explained in question number 32. This means a player can qualify by playing under three consecutive one-year contracts, a single contract of at least three years, or any equivalent combination. It also means that when a player is traded, his Bird rights are traded with him, and his new team can use the Larry Bird exception to re-sign him. These contracts can be up to five years in length, with raises up to 8% of the salary in the first season of the contract. Players who qualify for this exception are called "Qualifying Veteran Free Agents" in the CBA, and this exception is formally a component of the Veteran Free Agent exception.
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54. Are raises compounded? In other words, is each raise a percentage of the previous year's salary?
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No. Raises are limited to a percentage of the base salary in the first season of the contract. Raises in extensions are based on a percentage of the base salary in the first season of the extension. If a team signs another team's free agent (5% maximum raises) to a four-year contract starting at $10 million, the maximum raise is $500,000 each year. This player's four-year salary would be: Year 1 $10,000,000 Year 2 $10,500,000 Year 3 $11,000,000 Year 4 $11,500,000] |
The above is considered to be quite theoretical by most in regards to Randle and is hardly ever discussed.
Only guesses, but a first year salary of $15 million on the high side with maybe a low side of the MLE ($8.406 million + % change in the salary cap). |
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epak
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:22 am Post subject: |
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Anyone know if Paul George moves the ball quickly?
Or is he a hold and probe type of player?
That's one of the things bugging me about BI. |
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TheeChosenLonzo
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:27 am Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | Anyone know if Paul George moves the ball quickly?
Or is he a hold and probe type of player?
That's one of the things bugging me about BI. |
prefer Klay to Paul George but lakers might not wait another year.
Paul George is becoming more of a hype to me then actual max player. but not sure |
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JustWinBaby
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:29 am Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | Anyone know if Paul George moves the ball quickly?
Or is he a hold and probe type of player?
That's one of the things bugging me about BI. |
Not sure about George, but I do like players who make quick decisions with the ball like Kuzma. Even though, sometimes it's not always a good choice, but Kuzma doesn't hesitate much and attack. |
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32
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:32 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Bard. So if we take the average of $15M and $8M Randle's salary would be around $12M a year.
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Nobody in the NBA can touch the Laker brand, which, like the uniform color, is pure gold. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:39 am Post subject: |
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| TheeChosenLonzo wrote: | | 2019 wrote: | | DangeRuss wrote: | | Luminous8 wrote: | | I just keep seeing the looks Brook gets and can't help but think of Boogie feasting with these. We've also been running the offense through Brook and Ingram more frequently the past couple of games and with boogies ability to pass from the elbow causing serious damage. The looks KCP is getting would be unbelievable for PG13. |
Agree. Cousins and PG or bust. |
Boogie/Jules
Kuzzz/Nance
B.I.
PG13
Lonzo
Great lineup but I don't see that guy who is the leader of champions... I want the lineup but that is my concern.
On the other hand, LeBron + Boogie is too enticing
Boogie
Kuzzz/Nance
LeBron
B.I.
Lonzo |
if we get those 2, i would spend money on a shooter and backup PG then spending 15m on Randle |
You wouldn’t have money to spend on a shooter or backup PG.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| 32 wrote: | | Sorry I have been out of the loop. Does anybody have an estimate on how much money Randle could command in his new contract? |
He could get 25% of the cap
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Kjj10697X
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:43 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | TheeChosenLonzo wrote: | | 2019 wrote: | | DangeRuss wrote: | | Luminous8 wrote: | | I just keep seeing the looks Brook gets and can't help but think of Boogie feasting with these. We've also been running the offense through Brook and Ingram more frequently the past couple of games and with boogies ability to pass from the elbow causing serious damage. The looks KCP is getting would be unbelievable for PG13. |
Agree. Cousins and PG or bust. |
Boogie/Jules
Kuzzz/Nance
B.I.
PG13
Lonzo
Great lineup but I don't see that guy who is the leader of champions... I want the lineup but that is my concern.
On the other hand, LeBron + Boogie is too enticing
Boogie
Kuzzz/Nance
LeBron
B.I.
Lonzo |
if we get those 2, i would spend money on a shooter and backup PG then spending 15m on Randle |
You wouldn’t have money to spend on a shooter or backup PG. |
My take:
Boogie/Zubac
Kuzzz/Nance
B.I.
PG13
Lonzo
JC is your backup PG and SG.
PG is your backup SF.
This scenario is more realistic and takes the least amount of work to become reality. |
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TheeChosenLonzo
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:36 am Post subject: |
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if we do get the 2 max, sign Randle to a contract extension.
how much would the MLE cost us? if there still a bi annual exemption as well?
thanks |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:38 am Post subject: |
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They have to renounce the MLE to have space for two max. But they would have the room exception ($4.4 mil). And no bi annual if they have cap space.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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TheeChosenLonzo
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:39 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | They have to renounce the MLE to have space for two max. But they would have the room exception ($4.4 mil). And no bi annual if they have cap space. |
thanks |
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fontana3d
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Joined: 22 Mar 2013
Posts: 3794
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:13 am Post subject: |
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| Kjj10697X wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | TheeChosenLonzo wrote: | | 2019 wrote: | | DangeRuss wrote: | | Luminous8 wrote: | | I just keep seeing the looks Brook gets and can't help but think of Boogie feasting with these. We've also been running the offense through Brook and Ingram more frequently the past couple of games and with boogies ability to pass from the elbow causing serious damage. The looks KCP is getting would be unbelievable for PG13. |
Agree. Cousins and PG or bust. |
Boogie/Jules
Kuzzz/Nance
B.I.
PG13
Lonzo
Great lineup but I don't see that guy who is the leader of champions... I want the lineup but that is my concern.
On the other hand, LeBron + Boogie is too enticing
Boogie
Kuzzz/Nance
LeBron
B.I.
Lonzo |
if we get those 2, i would spend money on a shooter and backup PG then spending 15m on Randle |
You wouldn’t have money to spend on a shooter or backup PG. |
My take:
Boogie/Zubac
Kuzzz/Nance
B.I.
PG13
Lonzo
JC is your backup PG and SG.
PG is your backup SF.
This scenario is more realistic and takes the least amount of work to become reality. |
Yeah, but they still might dump Clarkson to use his salary to fill those two needs. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:29 am Post subject: |
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Coming down to jc v Jules (assuming they even keep them both). If so who you got?
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:38 am Post subject: |
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| Someone on another board said that Denver could be a possible destination to take a chance on Clarkson, Clarkson for Hernangomez and a first? |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Someone on another board said that Denver could be a possible destination to take a chance on Clarkson, Clarkson for Hernangomez and a first? |
They're not including a 1st with Hernangomez. How about Beasley and Barton (expiring) for JC? |
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scoobs
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Posts: 4746
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Someone on another board said that Denver could be a possible destination to take a chance on Clarkson, Clarkson for Hernangomez and a first? |
They're not including a 1st with Hernangomez. How about Beasley and Barton (expiring) for JC? |
I would love that trade, salaries don't match though. |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Someone on another board said that Denver could be a possible destination to take a chance on Clarkson, Clarkson for Hernangomez and a first? |
They're not including a 1st with Hernangomez. How about Beasley and Barton (expiring) for JC? |
I could see that |
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Bard207
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Posts: 7713
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| 32 wrote: | | Thanks Bard. So if we take the average of $15M and $8M Randle's salary would be around $12M a year. |
Yes, but that is based on a salary range that I selected. Other people here will have different salary ranges for Randle and we won't know until next summer which of us had the best projection.
There are multiple questions to be answered that could move his salary up or down.
1. Will they have two candidates worthy of and ready to sign a Max contract next summer?
2. If so, which positions will they play and is it going to be two 30% Max or a 35% and a 30% Max?
3. Will they expect their full Max salaries or will they give slight discounts?
4. If they will only sign for full Max contracts, what roster moves will need to be made to accommodate them?
5. Will Randle be asked to sign for several million less than his $12.4 cap hold to create more cap space for the two incoming players signing for the Max?
6. Will Deng's contract be stretched? Will he be traded with assets for a smaller bad contract that will be stretched with less long term pain? Will Deng be traded with assets for zero or minimal returning salary?
7. Nance will need a new contract the following summer, so is he in their long range plans?
8. Depending on what happens with Clarkson and KCP, perhaps they will need to focus on bringing in some talent at guard and use the Room Exception for a backup big, so would they need Randle?
9. What kind of offers will Randle be able to get from other teams?
There are some other questions to ponder, but the above are a good start on the different ways things could branch next summer in regards to Randle and his next contract. |
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Bard207
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Someone on another board said that Denver could be a possible destination to take a chance on Clarkson, Clarkson for Hernangomez and a first? |
My POV is that Denver needs to improve more at SF than at backup combo guard. Wilson Chandler is 30 and Milsap is 32.
The new contract for Gary Harris starts next season and Clarkson coming off the bench isn't a huge need.
What was the basis/reasoning/justification given for Denver being a possible destination for Clarkson? |
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Lakesh0wtime
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Joined: 28 Mar 2016
Posts: 5351
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Pelinka on Mason and Ireland said that since teams have limited cap room this summer..he believe once December 15th comes (Signed players can be traded) there will be a lot of activity trade wise. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| scoobs wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Someone on another board said that Denver could be a possible destination to take a chance on Clarkson, Clarkson for Hernangomez and a first? |
They're not including a 1st with Hernangomez. How about Beasley and Barton (expiring) for JC? |
I would love that trade, salaries don't match though. |
Gah! I didn't know Barton is only on a $3M deal. |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Lakesh0wtime wrote: | | Pelinka on Mason and Ireland said that since teams have limited cap room this summer..he believe once December 15th comes (Signed players can be traded) there will be a lot of activity trade wise. |
It looks like we are gonna make moves or else he wouldn't mention the date players can be traded. |
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