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fontana3d Star Player
Joined: 22 Mar 2013 Posts: 3794
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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Wildchild027 wrote: | It's crazy how we overate players. We will have spacing issues with Ingram and Ball playing with LeBron, but a Iggy, Livingston, Green, Thompson and Durant fivesome wouldn't have spacing issues at all. Eventhough Green shoots 29% from three and Iggy shoots 26% from three . |
Like it will matter for us even with king douchebag. |
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BynumForThree Star Player
Joined: 27 Feb 2016 Posts: 1254
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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Wildchild027 wrote: | It's crazy how we overate players. We will have spacing issues with Ingram and Ball playing with LeBron, but a Iggy, Livingston, Green, Thompson and Durant fivesome wouldn't have spacing issues at all. Eventhough Green shoots 29% from three and Iggy shoots 26% from three . |
I wasn't implying they would play all 5 at once but that they have that combination to throw at you for 48 minutes. And I don't see what's so strange about Iggy still being an elite defender. Duncan was an elite defender until his final season. _________________ If Brandon Knight were to come out, I would take him number 1 in the draft. - Magic Johnson Mar 27, 2011
For all of you out there questioning Jimmer Fredette of BYU, he is the real deal. - Magic Johnson Mar 20, 2011 |
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Judah Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2015 Posts: 4759
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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fontana3d wrote: | Wildchild027 wrote: | It's crazy how we overate players. We will have spacing issues with Ingram and Ball playing with LeBron, but a Iggy, Livingston, Green, Thompson and Durant fivesome wouldn't have spacing issues at all. Eventhough Green shoots 29% from three and Iggy shoots 26% from three . |
Like it will matter for us even with king douchebag. |
Yeah, hard to argue with top notch analysis like this. _________________ “Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
- John Piper |
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Judah Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2015 Posts: 4759
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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pjiddy wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Omar Little wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | My prediction is so many here will be more than happy if lbj/pg/jules are signed and we’re on a 60 win pace in year 1 of the team. We are so accustomed it seems to eschewing talent bc we are so used to them rejecting us (ie “you can’t fire me I quit.”).
LBJ won’t be instigating with Magic acting as an even stronger counterpoint against him in LA. |
You think magic is an even stronger counterpart than Riley was? |
At this juncture yes. I don’t see LBJ strong arming Magic to fire Luke, trade all the young guys, etc, things that folks worry LeGM May do. |
Lebron's MO isn't to strong-arm. It's to subtly undermine. If he's unhappy with Walton, he'll make subtle digs about the team being "out-coached" or "out-schemed," make offhand comments about his disbelief that e.g. David Fizdale is still unemployed. If he's unhappy with his teammates, he'll make comments about how green the team is, how they might be "years" away from true contention...but cap it all off with how he doesn't worry about that stuff, he just "plays." It's why he'll probably sign a 1+1 here, to make sure his comments are really heard. |
I don't think it's a subtle undermining vs strong-arming thing. The former can be a method to accomplish the latter. But you're obviously right that he's done that while in CLE. I don't see him being that way with the Lakers, however, because of how much he reveres Magic. His treatment of CLE's FO has been noticeably different compared to the way he treated Miami's. I really can't recall any shenanigans he pulled when he was with Miami to garner power control from Riley. _________________ “Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
- John Piper |
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Roon Star Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2012 Posts: 1816
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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BynumForThree wrote: | Wildchild027 wrote: | It's crazy how we overate players. We will have spacing issues with Ingram and Ball playing with LeBron, but a Iggy, Livingston, Green, Thompson and Durant fivesome wouldn't have spacing issues at all. Eventhough Green shoots 29% from three and Iggy shoots 26% from three . |
I wasn't implying they would play all 5 at once but that they have that combination to throw at you for 48 minutes. And I don't see what's so strange about Iggy still being an elite defender. Duncan was an elite defender until his final season. |
We would have an elite defense that could actually be on the court at the same time.
We would have 4 6'8-6'10 guys on the court at the same time. The warriors are still the team to beat, but a lineup of Ball/George/Ingram/Lebron/Randle is a combination of size/strength/athleticism and talent that the NBA hasn't seen before. It's ridiculous.
The advantage would be physically. The Lakers could wear them down. It's how Lebron beat them the first time. The Cavs wore Curry down. |
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Vanquish Star Player
Joined: 15 Jun 2005 Posts: 1561 Location: London
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | Yes, all we need is $90+ mil in cap space with a $101 mil cap. |
There are ways in which he technically might be correct.
Possibility (1) Third max is Randle
Max out Lebron and PG13. Have 12 plus mil for Randle's cap hold, doable if Deng is traded. Then go over the cap to max out Randle using his Bird rights at 25 mil
Possibility (2)
Max Salaries
0-6 years 25% of cap=$25.25 mill
7-9 years 30% of cap=$30.30 mill
10+ years 35% of cap=$35.35 mill
32 posted that we could thoerectically open up to 84.24 mil in cap space by Trade Deng, Zo, Zu and TB with nothing coming back, renounce everyone, cut Ennis.
That's 2 Maxes at 7-9 years (Cousins, PG13?) and one max from 0-6 years, trade for wiggins? 3 maxes in this way is approx around 85 mil. Very close to the 84.24 number.
While unlikely, what Windhorsts says might not technically be untrue. |
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parsons777 Star Player
Joined: 08 Jul 2005 Posts: 3574
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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Can a team ( Brooklyn ) extend a player on the last year of their deal for 2018-19 ( Lin ) by adding one more year partially guaranteed, making that contract like the Asik contract and then trade him to us for Deng? We would get the same trade and then stretch around $15 mill over 5 years we would get with Asik. Is that legal? We have dealt with Brooklyn before... |
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Vanquish Star Player
Joined: 15 Jun 2005 Posts: 1561 Location: London
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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parsons777 wrote: | Can a team ( Brooklyn ) extend a player on the last year of their deal for 2018-19 ( Lin ) by adding one more year partially guaranteed, making that contract like the Asik contract and then trade him to us for Deng? We would get the same trade and then stretch around $15 mill over 5 years we would get with Asik. Is that legal? We have dealt with Brooklyn before... |
Larry Coon would have to confirm this, but I seem to remember a clause in the CBA that allows the league to invalidate any transaction that tries to subvert the underlying purpose of the rule even if it doesn't technically contradict any rule? Not totally sure, but it seems to be in my head.
Gives the league a wide latitude of discretion though but if it deems that otherwise legal moves are made with the underlying purpose of subverting the CBA (which a transaction you propose might be interpreted as), then it could be illegal. |
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parsons777 Star Player
Joined: 08 Jul 2005 Posts: 3574
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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Vanquish wrote: | parsons777 wrote: | Can a team ( Brooklyn ) extend a player on the last year of their deal for 2018-19 ( Lin ) by adding one more year partially guaranteed, making that contract like the Asik contract and then trade him to us for Deng? We would get the same trade and then stretch around $15 mill over 5 years we would get with Asik. Is that legal? We have dealt with Brooklyn before... |
Larry Coon would have to confirm this, but I seem to remember a clause in the CBA that allows the league to invalidate any transaction that tries to subvert the underlying purpose of the rule even if it doesn't technically contradict any rule? Not totally sure, but it seems to be in my head.
Gives the league a wide latitude of discretion though but if it deems that otherwise legal moves are made with the underlying purpose of subverting the CBA (which a transaction you propose might be interpreted as), then it could be illegal. |
Darn it |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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Judah wrote: | pjiddy wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Omar Little wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | My prediction is so many here will be more than happy if lbj/pg/jules are signed and we’re on a 60 win pace in year 1 of the team. We are so accustomed it seems to eschewing talent bc we are so used to them rejecting us (ie “you can’t fire me I quit.”).
LBJ won’t be instigating with Magic acting as an even stronger counterpoint against him in LA. |
You think magic is an even stronger counterpart than Riley was? |
At this juncture yes. I don’t see LBJ strong arming Magic to fire Luke, trade all the young guys, etc, things that folks worry LeGM May do. |
Lebron's MO isn't to strong-arm. It's to subtly undermine. If he's unhappy with Walton, he'll make subtle digs about the team being "out-coached" or "out-schemed," make offhand comments about his disbelief that e.g. David Fizdale is still unemployed. If he's unhappy with his teammates, he'll make comments about how green the team is, how they might be "years" away from true contention...but cap it all off with how he doesn't worry about that stuff, he just "plays." It's why he'll probably sign a 1+1 here, to make sure his comments are really heard. |
I don't think it's a subtle undermining vs strong-arming thing. The former can be a method to accomplish the latter. But you're obviously right that he's done that while in CLE. I don't see him being that way with the Lakers, however, because of how much he reveres Magic. His treatment of CLE's FO has been noticeably different compared to the way he treated Miami's. I really can't recall any shenanigans he pulled when he was with Miami to garner power control from Riley. |
Yup. It’s one thing to F around with Gilbert who wrote that nasty missive when LBJ left. It’s another, in LA, to try to do that with Magic.
My point is that maybe Magic and LBJ/PG13 May agree that they need to accelerate the championship window, which is somewhat understandable. But I don’t think it would be a widespread Wiggins’ing of our young core. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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CalisFinest Star Player
Joined: 03 Mar 2012 Posts: 2808 Location: Upland, California
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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If IND is willing to tango I'd hit them up on draft day so you're armed with the space for George/James/Randle the moment July 1 hits.
CLE '18/Future 1st or 2nd/Zu/Deng/Cash
for
Al Jefferson (4m guaranteed, stretch out for 1.33m over 3 years)
Lance Stephenson (Team option, will be declined).
George 30.3m
Randle 12.4m (hold)
Zo 7.5m
Ingram 5.8m
Kuz 1.7m
Hart 1.7m
Bryant 1.4m
Jefferson hold (1.33m)
Roster holds 4.125m
Leftover space = 34.75m, just 750k short of James. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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CalisFinest wrote: | If IND is willing to tango I'd hit them up on draft day so you're armed with the space for George/James/Randle the moment July 1 hits.
CLE '18/Future 1st or 2nd/Zu/Deng/Cash
for
Al Jefferson (4m guaranteed, stretch out for 1.33m over 3 years)
Lance Stephenson (Team option, will be declined).
George 30.3m
Randle 12.4m (hold)
Zo 7.5m
Ingram 5.8m
Kuz 1.7m
Hart 1.7m
Bryant 1.4m
Jefferson hold (1.33m)
Roster holds 4.125m
Leftover space = 34.75m, just 750k short of James. |
Very interesting. Good find. Probably a bunch of these around. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Vanquish Star Player
Joined: 15 Jun 2005 Posts: 1561 Location: London
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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CalisFinest wrote: | If IND is willing to tango I'd hit them up on draft day so you're armed with the space for George/James/Randle the moment July 1 hits.
CLE '18/Future 1st or 2nd/Zu/Deng/Cash
for
Al Jefferson (4m guaranteed, stretch out for 1.33m over 3 years)
Lance Stephenson (Team option, will be declined).
George 30.3m
Randle 12.4m (hold)
Zo 7.5m
Ingram 5.8m
Kuz 1.7m
Hart 1.7m
Bryant 1.4m
Jefferson hold (1.33m)
Roster holds 4.125m
Leftover space = 34.75m, just 750k short of James. |
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LakerMindLA Star Player
Joined: 26 Dec 2008 Posts: 5344
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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CalisFinest wrote: | If IND is willing to tango I'd hit them up on draft day so you're armed with the space for George/James/Randle the moment July 1 hits.
CLE '18/Future 1st or 2nd/Zu/Deng/Cash
for
Al Jefferson (4m guaranteed, stretch out for 1.33m over 3 years)
Lance Stephenson (Team option, will be declined).
George 30.3m
Randle 12.4m (hold)
Zo 7.5m
Ingram 5.8m
Kuz 1.7m
Hart 1.7m
Bryant 1.4m
Jefferson hold (1.33m)
Roster holds 4.125m
Leftover space = 34.75m, just 750k short of James. |
Lance Stephenson could only be traded if his option is picked up before the trade to make the money work. The NBA would only count $4m in guaranteed money. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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The two guys I will be most disappointed with if they’re not Lakers next year is Pg13/jules. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Laker's Fan Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2002 Posts: 12812
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | CalisFinest wrote: | If IND is willing to tango I'd hit them up on draft day so you're armed with the space for George/James/Randle the moment July 1 hits.
CLE '18/Future 1st or 2nd/Zu/Deng/Cash
for
Al Jefferson (4m guaranteed, stretch out for 1.33m over 3 years)
Lance Stephenson (Team option, will be declined).
George 30.3m
Randle 12.4m (hold)
Zo 7.5m
Ingram 5.8m
Kuz 1.7m
Hart 1.7m
Bryant 1.4m
Jefferson hold (1.33m)
Roster holds 4.125m
Leftover space = 34.75m, just 750k short of James. |
Very interesting. Good find. Probably a bunch of these around. |
Because you're after the trade deadline Indy would have to pick up Lance's option to trade him and according to a convo Eric had with someone on twitter once the regular season ends a player's contract for the following season is only worth their guaranteed amount in trade. In other words unless his contract was guaranteed for a higher amount Jefferson would only count for $4 million for matching purposes. The deal wouldn't work.
Indy has three deals that would have worked deadline (Jefferson, Collisin and Bogdanovic) but those are of no use now.
Asik actually has the most interesting deal because his low guarantee in 19-20 let's you stretch his deal over five years but get his full 18-19 salary for matching purposes. _________________ Austin Reaves keeps his game tight, like Kobe Bryant on game night. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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Yes Asik is the deal I would target. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Harlemlakerfan Star Player
Joined: 19 Mar 2014 Posts: 2716
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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I keep hearing and reading about the fear of another team offering Julius the max and then forcing us to either match or let him go. There is one thing that is not being taken into consideration. If you look at the history of free agency, restricted free agents are usually the last ones on the market. Teams hate having cap money tied up for 3 days for a player that they might not even get. Offering a restricted free agent a deal, prevents teams from recruiting un-restricted free agents. Unless a team like Dallas wants to completely try and sabotage the Lakers plans for 2 max guys and keeping Julius by throwing a max at him, we should have time before we have to make a decision on Julius. Dallas can take that chance if they want, throwing a max at Julius and have there free agent money on hold but, I have feeling that Magic and Rob have already planned for such a scenario. |
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RoyalPurple8 Starting Rotation
Joined: 18 Oct 2017 Posts: 439
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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Capella and PG13 is the real dream this offseason. |
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fontana3d Star Player
Joined: 22 Mar 2013 Posts: 3794
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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This is why I keep saying that we should had given Deng and Mozgov 2 year days or 2 years plus a team option for a 3rd not 4 years because this will be a mess to get rid of Deng and will most likely cost us Randle, and other assets. |
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Jesusdelonla Franchise Player
Joined: 24 Jan 2018 Posts: 15430
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Yes Asik is the deal I would target. |
i would not, not at all. 18-20 pick to get asik? |
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ChickenStu Retired Number
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 31785 Location: Anaheim, CA
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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Jesusdelonla wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Yes Asik is the deal I would target. |
i would not, not at all. 18-20 pick to get asik? |
They are talking about the idea of trading only this Cavs pick and taking Asik's deal and then stretching him (which would only cost us just under $3MM per year over 5 years), as opposed to trading Deng with no one coming back, but where it costs us not only the Cavs' pick, but probably another 1st rounder as well. Any Deng deal is a virtual certainty to cost us the Cavs' pick.
The issue will be whether or not we can get both LeBron and PG AND keep Randle's cap hold in this scenario, because I think we'd actually be just a touch short. |
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Chronicle Retired Number
Joined: 21 Jul 2012 Posts: 31930 Location: Manhattan
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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We should not be trading the cavs pick just to dump deng.
Our draft staff is currently one of the best things we've got going for us. We should use the ~20th pick to find another young player that can stay with us for 4 years on a very cheap contract.
If we trade the pick then we traded nance for nothing. It's important that we get something back _________________ Kobe |
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ChickenStu Retired Number
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 31785 Location: Anaheim, CA
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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Chronicle wrote: | We should not be trading the cavs pick just to dump deng.
Our draft staff is currently one of the best things we've got going for us. We should use the ~20th pick to find another young player that can stay with us for 4 years on a very cheap contract.
If we trade the pick then we traded nance for nothing. It's important that we get something back |
Well I know you don't want to get LeBron, but you know as well as I do that the goal is LeBron and PG. Assuming that you pull that off, and assuming that you want to retain Randle's cap hold (which should be a no-brainer), the fact is that not only will teams require that pick (and another) to take Deng, but that we have to have that pick's cap hold off our books anyway to accommodate being able to sign LeBron and PG. Assuming that we pull off LeBron/PG/Randle, I don't see a realistic scenario where we keep this Cavs pick. Well, unless Deng actually accepts the extend-and-stretch idea, and then LeBron and PG both take a little bit less. But I'm not counting on that, and I don't think anyone else should be, either. |
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LakerMindLA Star Player
Joined: 26 Dec 2008 Posts: 5344
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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Chronicle wrote: |
If we trade the pick then we traded nance for nothing. It's important that we get something back |
You can just look at it that we traded him for our 2021 or 2022 first round pick, which we would now keep in a Deng trade.
Hopefully this Cleveland pick is low enough that it won’t take 2 firsts to unload Deng. |
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