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MJST
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 Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Here's how it goes
If IT is willing to be a Super 6th man backup to Lonzo. He'll likely be brought back.
If he tries to leverage us and constantly push to be a starter, he'll be gone. |
Well. He went from:
1. I'm not a 6th man to
2. OK, maybe I can be one...to
3. Let's see what he says in 2-3 more days.  |
I think his play since the "I ain't no 6th man" which means "I am a 6th man" in grammatical terms...
I think he or his agent are realizing their egos are gonna cost him a lot of money. So he makes it sound like it's just his competitive nature "I want to be MVP, I want to be an all-star again.. I want to be etc etc"
his goals are very ME ME ME oriented which makes him sound like a very back of the jersey guy.
That is gonna cost him money. He may have realized the Lakers are probably gonna be the only team that could afford to pay him a lot on a 1+1 deal because of his cap hold, so he shut his mouth.
Now it's up to him to go out and play and prove he can be a Super 6th man going forward that other teams would actually want to spend on. Cause this "starter" stuff, is over outside of teams going nowhere. |
This is precisely why I could only agree to 1 year deal with him. Needs to show me some consistency in his mindset (and health). |
I'd say a 1+1 deal would be ideal.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Here's how it goes
If IT is willing to be a Super 6th man backup to Lonzo. He'll likely be brought back.
If he tries to leverage us and constantly push to be a starter, he'll be gone. |
Well. He went from:
1. I'm not a 6th man to
2. OK, maybe I can be one...to
3. Let's see what he says in 2-3 more days. |
I think his play since the "I ain't no 6th man" which means "I am a 6th man" in grammatical terms...
I think he or his agent are realizing their egos are gonna cost him a lot of money. So he makes it sound like it's just his competitive nature "I want to be MVP, I want to be an all-star again.. I want to be etc etc"
his goals are very ME ME ME oriented which makes him sound like a very back of the jersey guy.
That is gonna cost him money. He may have realized the Lakers are probably gonna be the only team that could afford to pay him a lot on a 1+1 deal because of his cap hold, so he shut his mouth.
Now it's up to him to go out and play and prove he can be a Super 6th man going forward that other teams would actually want to spend on. Cause this "starter" stuff, is over outside of teams going nowhere. |
This is precisely why I could only agree to 1 year deal with him. Needs to show me some consistency in his mindset (and health). |
I'd say a 1+1 deal would be ideal. |
No to a player option, and assuming we miss out on our max FAs.
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adkindo
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: |
No to a player option, and assuming we miss out on our max FAs. |
a player option would kill 2019 FA plans if we are unable to get FA's in 2018. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: |
No to a player option, and assuming we miss out on our max FAs. |
a player option would kill 2019 FA plans if we are unable to get FA's in 2018. |
Yup. The control has to be in the Lakers' hands to see if IT will remain on his best behavior if we miss out on max FAs.
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King Randle
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | King Randle wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Here's how it goes
If IT is willing to be a Super 6th man backup to Lonzo. He'll likely be brought back.
If he tries to leverage us and constantly push to be a starter, he'll be gone. |
That’s how I see it, maybe he wants to be apart of a winning team with the “Lakers” instead of playing for PT and money, I mean he’s gonna be 30 so I think winning a title is his goal which is why he might comeback in a discount if we have a super team |
If LBJ does come then IT is absolutely not coming back. If PG comes alone there's a chance IT comes back maybe on a 2 year deal with a team option. |
You can create a super team with IT on the team even without LeBron, there is still a possibility that quite a few superstars like Walker and Leonard will be available for the FO to pursue. |
I agree with you....although I don't think of Kemba as a superstar but a real good player which I would be happy if they signed but not to a 5 year max. |
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Vanquish
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Location: London
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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| King Randle wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | King Randle wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Here's how it goes
If IT is willing to be a Super 6th man backup to Lonzo. He'll likely be brought back.
If he tries to leverage us and constantly push to be a starter, he'll be gone. |
That’s how I see it, maybe he wants to be apart of a winning team with the “Lakers” instead of playing for PT and money, I mean he’s gonna be 30 so I think winning a title is his goal which is why he might comeback in a discount if we have a super team |
If LBJ does come then IT is absolutely not coming back. If PG comes alone there's a chance IT comes back maybe on a 2 year deal with a team option. |
You can create a super team with IT on the team even without LeBron, there is still a possibility that quite a few superstars like Walker and Leonard will be available for the FO to pursue. |
I agree with you....although I don't think of Kemba as a superstar but a real good player which I would be happy if they signed but not to a 5 year max. |
IT is definitely going for the money. Dude has never been paid in his life. what makes its worst was that he was so close to getting his first real big contract with the MVP consideration just a year ago.
He definitely wants starter minutes + a big money contract and will bolt to whichever team gives him that. Only way he agrees to play back up to Lonzo is if he doesn't have any better options. |
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Sentient Meat
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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One option might be to sign him for a two or three year contract that is tradeable. Everyone keeps operating on the assumption that he will fail. I think the most likely outcome is him being anywhere from serviceable to good... with brilliant and terrible/injured the outliers. Again... one year is best for us... even a one year over pay like we did with KCP or Philly did with Redick... but if no one like the Knicks offers him 3 years/60 million... then maybe you can do something like 3 for 36 or 2 for 30 that you can move if he regains his form. I use that measurement because we could move Clarkson at that price and I'm pretty sure IT is moveable at that price. The upside is that we have cover for Lonzo and a tradeable asset next season if Kawhi comes available. The downside of course is if he gets hurt. However, I see him playing very physically... way more so than Ball and he's constantly drawing fouls and hitting the floor. Players trying to nurse or protect an injury don't do that.
I think it's way more risky to enter a playoff campaign with no proven point guard than signing IT to a moderate contract that we can trade if one of the pipe dream agents comes available. |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Add Fred VanFleet to the list of potential back up PGs we could pursue |
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Car54
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | Jesusdelonla wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | Jesusdelonla wrote: | | IT is not coming back to be a backup to Lonzo |
He literally just said he would consider it. I'm sure he doesn't want to do it... but he said he would. |
i trust what he said to a reporter who wrote an article for him then what he said in a fan Q&A |
The Lakers beat reporter covered it in the Times
http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/la-sp-lakers-report-20180320-story.html |
"He is one of a few bench players to get consistent minutes for the Lakers these days, and has developed strong chemistry with both Julius Randle and Lonzo Ball. In fact, Lakers lineups that include Randle and Thomas together have been more productive on offense and defense than those that don't include that pair."
Thats good news
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Car54
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| King Randle wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | King Randle wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Here's how it goes
If IT is willing to be a Super 6th man backup to Lonzo. He'll likely be brought back.
If he tries to leverage us and constantly push to be a starter, he'll be gone. |
That’s how I see it, maybe he wants to be apart of a winning team with the “Lakers” instead of playing for PT and money, I mean he’s gonna be 30 so I think winning a title is his goal which is why he might comeback in a discount if we have a super team |
If LBJ does come then IT is absolutely not coming back. If PG comes alone there's a chance IT comes back maybe on a 2 year deal with a team option. |
You can create a super team with IT on the team even without LeBron, there is still a possibility that quite a few superstars like Walker and Leonard will be available for the FO to pursue. |
I agree with you....although I don't think of Kemba as a superstar but a real good player which I would be happy if they signed but not to a 5 year max. |
Walker and IT on the same team? Cmon IG
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Max slot : Kawhi |
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Car54
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | This assumes also that Lonzo won't make a big leap next year. I mean look at BI from year 1 to 2. I could see Lonzo take a huge leap too. |
Not if his shot isnt fallimg. Hes akready elite at rebounding and passing. He could become more aggressive like he was before the injury.
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MJST
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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When it comes to IT... Money will talk when all is said and done.
If the Knicks came crashing in with a 20M offer and a starting position that's where he's going.
But if he's looking at teams only wanting to spend 8-15M on him in this off-season in a backup role he's gonna have to realistically start looking at which backup position he wants the most.
because what's he gonna do in response? NOT play in the NBA next year out of protest?
Realistically I don't see any team other than the Knicks willing to make him their starting point guard, and if THEY aren't gonna fork over that position to him, then the Lakers are the ones with the cap space, they're the ones with his Bird's rights. They're the ones that can offer him the highest 1+1 he's gonna get because his cap hold enables them to do so without it eating away tremendously at their cap.
When you put that into perspective, unless he gets a starting role in New York then he'll most likely be back.
Remember, the Lakers could offer him a 1+1 18M a season with a Team Option on that 2nd year. But it would only cost his cap hold in that 1st season, and his cap hold is less than Clarkson's contract. That fact likely isn't lost on his agent.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | When it comes to IT... Money will talk when all is said and done.
If the Knicks came crashing in with a 20M offer and a starting position that's where he's going.
But if he's looking at teams only wanting to spend 8-15M on him in this off-season in a backup role he's gonna have to realistically start looking at which backup position he wants the most.
because what's he gonna do in response? NOT play in the NBA next year out of protest?
Realistically I don't see any team other than the Knicks willing to make him their starting point guard, and if THEY aren't gonna fork over that position to him, then the Lakers are the ones with the cap space, they're the ones with his Bird's rights. They're the ones that can offer him the highest 1+1 he's gonna get because his cap hold enables them to do so without it eating away tremendously at their cap.
When you put that into perspective, unless he gets a starting role in New York then he'll most likely be back.
Remember, the Lakers could offer him a 1+1 18M a season with a Team Option on that 2nd year. But it would only cost his cap hold in that 1st season, and his cap hold is less than Clarkson's contract. That fact likely isn't lost on his agent. |
How are the Knicks offering 20m when they’re over the cap?
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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He may get MLE deals. Lots of 1 year offers IMO.
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MJST
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | When it comes to IT... Money will talk when all is said and done.
If the Knicks came crashing in with a 20M offer and a starting position that's where he's going.
But if he's looking at teams only wanting to spend 8-15M on him in this off-season in a backup role he's gonna have to realistically start looking at which backup position he wants the most.
because what's he gonna do in response? NOT play in the NBA next year out of protest?
Realistically I don't see any team other than the Knicks willing to make him their starting point guard, and if THEY aren't gonna fork over that position to him, then the Lakers are the ones with the cap space, they're the ones with his Bird's rights. They're the ones that can offer him the highest 1+1 he's gonna get because his cap hold enables them to do so without it eating away tremendously at their cap.
When you put that into perspective, unless he gets a starting role in New York then he'll most likely be back.
Remember, the Lakers could offer him a 1+1 18M a season with a Team Option on that 2nd year. But it would only cost his cap hold in that 1st season, and his cap hold is less than Clarkson's contract. That fact likely isn't lost on his agent. |
How are the Knicks offering 20m when they’re over the cap? |
I was being facetious 
Basically it's "if some team going nowhere pays him a big amount he hasn't earned this year to be a starter he's gone" The Knicks are just an example because I thought of the team I think of most going nowhere next year
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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But when you go thru the cap space teams then you don’t see a guaranteed starting spot over the MLE range.
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trablos
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | Ennis or Jarrett Jack as our backup PG. |
Not sure why you keep repeating it. There is a long list of possible FAs but you choose to deliberately cut it down to Ennis or Jack. How about Burke, or the countless other guys who would join a contender?
And based on the recent and immediate contributions from late draft picks like JC, Nance, Hart, Kuz, I think you're discounting the possibilities of finding a cheaper and more team-minded replacement with the Cavs or Denver pick.
We don't need an exact IT replica. The backup PG is open to many iterations. |
No way Ennis is back next year, I much rather have Farmar then Ennis. |
I'd rather have a farmer than ennis |
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RestEasyBlackMamba
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Our back up PG position has been crap for years. Price, the catalyst Huertas, Calderon, Enis. |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| IT is playing his way out of town |
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Ziggy
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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| 24ways2die wrote: | | Our back up PG position has been crap for years. Price, the catalyst Huertas, Calderon, Enis. |
Yeah, Jordan Farmar and Shannon Brown were our last decent backup PGs, and even they were just OK. |
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Harlemlakerfan
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Ok, I'm officially over IT! KCP is the one we should look to re-sign, along with Julius. KCP is young, can shoot it and plays D. Even when he messes up, his effort to get it back doesn't go unnoticed. |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | He may get MLE deals. Lots of 1 year offers IMO. |
not bad....about a million per turnover.... |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Harlemlakerfan wrote: | | Ok, I'm officially over IT! KCP is the one we should look to re-sign, along with Julius. KCP is young, can shoot it and plays D. Even when he messes up, his effort to get it back doesn't go unnoticed. |
According to Larry Coon, Randles camp may be asking for 20M per a season |
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Bard207
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Harlemlakerfan wrote: | | Ok, I'm officially over IT! KCP is the one we should look to re-sign, along with Julius. KCP is young, can shoot it and plays D. Even when he messes up, his effort to get it back doesn't go unnoticed. |
According to Larry Coon, Randles camp may be asking for 20M per a season |
If they give him a new contract starting at $19 - $20 million next season, it becomes very difficult to execute a two mid tier Max plan with one signed in summer 2018 and the other signed in summer 2019. |
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Vanquish
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Posts: 1561
Location: London
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Harlemlakerfan wrote: | | Ok, I'm officially over IT! KCP is the one we should look to re-sign, along with Julius. KCP is young, can shoot it and plays D. Even when he messes up, his effort to get it back doesn't go unnoticed. |
According to Larry Coon, Randles camp may be asking for 20M per a season |
I kind of expected he would. It would just be bad business not to ask for as much as possible. If somebody bites, cool if no-one bites then there room to move down to a lower figure.
The great thing for us is that the cap space situation is so bad this year, that Randle doesn't really have many options. I thinks the Mavs are really the only team with both the cap space and possibly the desire to give Randle a big contract. So I'm going to keep my fingers crossed, and hope the mavs believe there's better options with their cap space and don't give a crazy offer, so we just match and it will be a short free agency. |
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