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pjiddy
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 29047
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 Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | It's like Goldilocks and the Three Bears here when it comes to injury
IT... he is TOO small to heal properly
Boogie... he is TOO big to heal properly
Kawhi... he is the perfect size so he will be fine
I understand anyone who is worried about all three injuries.
I understand anyone who is not worried about any of the injuries.
But those who pick and choose... unless you are an experienced orthopedist who has examined all three... I give absolutely no weight to your arguments here. |
Ah, a Goldilocks analogy in lieu of solid medical analysis. Now I feel better. |
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Sentient Meat
Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | It's like Goldilocks and the Three Bears here when it comes to injury
IT... he is TOO small to heal properly
Boogie... he is TOO big to heal properly
Kawhi... he is the perfect size so he will be fine
I understand anyone who is worried about all three injuries.
I understand anyone who is not worried about any of the injuries.
But those who pick and choose... unless you are an experienced orthopedist who has examined all three... I give absolutely no weight to your arguments here. |
Ah, a Goldilocks analogy in lieu of solid medical analysis. Now I feel better. |
You mean the solid medical analysis that says if you are 5 foot 9 you won't heal... if you are 6 foot 11 you won't heal... but if you are 6 foot 7 you should trade away half your team to acquire the guy?
Yeah I love how people cherry pick what is dangerous and what is a non factor based solely on which players they like.
Either you worry about all three... or you should worry about none of them.
Otherwise you are just making up narratives that fit what you want to happen. |
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BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | It's like Goldilocks and the Three Bears here when it comes to injury
IT... he is TOO small to heal properly
Boogie... he is TOO big to heal properly
Kawhi... he is the perfect size so he will be fine
I understand anyone who is worried about all three injuries.
I understand anyone who is not worried about any of the injuries.
But those who pick and choose... unless you are an experienced orthopedist who has examined all three... I give absolutely no weight to your arguments here. |
IT had a one hit wonder type season. He didn’t have a history of all star play before then so it’s pretty reasonable to expect him not to return to that form. Not to mention his always poor D. At least for me, the injury isn’t even the main reason I don’t want him. I don’t think he’s a very valuable player.
Being too big to recover from a torn Achilles is also extremely reasonable. Especially when the player has a history of laziness. He’s also expecting a max contract. No thanks.
Kawhi had no structural damage. So it can be expected he returns to full health or close to it. He’s younger than both, better than both pre-injury, and is at a size where he isn’t carrying as much weight while being big enough to afford some loss in foot speed/elevation etc in case that does happen.
Context matters. |
IT has the same number of All Star appearances as Kawhi. Both 2X.
Your one hit wonder narrative makes absolutely no sense because his offensive production mirrors Kawhi's... except it's better.
As you know from the other thread... he averages more points and assists than Kawhi.
And again... I've no problem saying Kawhi is better... I have problem with people thinking Kawhi will have no issues and IT is ruined. We do not know until we see them play. The only way you can have full confidence in Kawhi's condition is if you have inside knowledge that he was lying about his injury and was completely healthy all year. If you believe he's telling the truth... it can be either degenerative or chronic condition.
I also get what you are saying about Boogie... but something tells me even with a walking cast he could run as fast as Lopez. Yet no one has a problem with signing Brook.
PG and LBJ are my first choices but you shouldn't close your mind to signing IT and Boogie for one year rentals if the others won't come. If they are good... you can keep them. If they are poor, you go back to the drawing board and sign Kawhi, Klay, or Jimmy next year.
Completely no risk... unlike trading four assets for Kawhi. |
At this point, you’re not just ignoring context but avoiding it. Ok IT has the same amount of all star appearances but KL clearly has a more reliable consistent career to that point. I’d happily sign Cousins to the mid level exception instead of Lopez, but that’s not realistic so I don’t discuss it. My minds closed to them and will remain that way. |
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Sentient Meat
Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | It's like Goldilocks and the Three Bears here when it comes to injury
IT... he is TOO small to heal properly
Boogie... he is TOO big to heal properly
Kawhi... he is the perfect size so he will be fine
I understand anyone who is worried about all three injuries.
I understand anyone who is not worried about any of the injuries.
But those who pick and choose... unless you are an experienced orthopedist who has examined all three... I give absolutely no weight to your arguments here. |
IT had a one hit wonder type season. He didn’t have a history of all star play before then so it’s pretty reasonable to expect him not to return to that form. Not to mention his always poor D. At least for me, the injury isn’t even the main reason I don’t want him. I don’t think he’s a very valuable player.
Being too big to recover from a torn Achilles is also extremely reasonable. Especially when the player has a history of laziness. He’s also expecting a max contract. No thanks.
Kawhi had no structural damage. So it can be expected he returns to full health or close to it. He’s younger than both, better than both pre-injury, and is at a size where he isn’t carrying as much weight while being big enough to afford some loss in foot speed/elevation etc in case that does happen.
Context matters. |
IT has the same number of All Star appearances as Kawhi. Both 2X.
Your one hit wonder narrative makes absolutely no sense because his offensive production mirrors Kawhi's... except it's better.
As you know from the other thread... he averages more points and assists than Kawhi.
And again... I've no problem saying Kawhi is better... I have problem with people thinking Kawhi will have no issues and IT is ruined. We do not know until we see them play. The only way you can have full confidence in Kawhi's condition is if you have inside knowledge that he was lying about his injury and was completely healthy all year. If you believe he's telling the truth... it can be either degenerative or chronic condition.
I also get what you are saying about Boogie... but something tells me even with a walking cast he could run as fast as Lopez. Yet no one has a problem with signing Brook.
PG and LBJ are my first choices but you shouldn't close your mind to signing IT and Boogie for one year rentals if the others won't come. If they are good... you can keep them. If they are poor, you go back to the drawing board and sign Kawhi, Klay, or Jimmy next year.
Completely no risk... unlike trading four assets for Kawhi. |
At this point, you’re not just ignoring context but avoiding it. Ok IT has the same amount of all star appearances but KL clearly has a more reliable consistent career to that point. I’d happily sign Cousins to the mid level exception instead of Lopez, but that’s not realistic so I don’t discuss it. My minds closed to them and will remain that way. |
And my ratings reflect the difference.
I would sign IT for a one year + team option year if we don't get LeBron
I would sign Kawhi for a max.
However, I wouldn't trade four assets for Kawhi... I wouldn't trade any assets for IT.
The point is I look at the situation with more nuance than some who think Kawhi is worth a max plus four assets.
I could see an issue if I rated them the same but I don't... I simply don't dismiss Boogie or IT as worthless.
We will see soon who was right in this debate. |
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Kirby Brian
Star Player
Joined: 31 May 2005
Posts: 7920
Location: Chattanooga
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| What if we get our big 3...would you guys like to sign Chris Bosh as well? maybe as a backup big? |
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1hu2ren3dui4
Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 15403
Location: Oak Park
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Kirby Brian wrote: | | What if we get our big 3...would you guys like to sign Chris Bosh as well? maybe as a backup big? |
Hard pass. For both our good and his good. |
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kobe_luver
Franchise Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 11644
Location: LA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Kirby Brian wrote: | | What if we get our big 3...would you guys like to sign Chris Bosh as well? maybe as a backup big? |
I doubt the Lakers take a chance with his blood clots. |
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32
Retired Number
Joined: 04 Nov 2009
Posts: 73058
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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OddsShark
@OddsShark
Odds to win the 2018-19 NBA Championship (Bovada):
GSW +140
HOU +500
PHI/BOS/LAL +550
SAS +1800
CLE +2400
MIA +5500
TOR +6600
MIN/NO +7500
OKC +8000
MIL/UTA/DEN/IND +10000 LAC/POR/WSH +10000
NYK +15000
PHX +25000
ATL/BKN/CHA +50000
CHI/DAL/DET +50000
MEM/ORL/SAC +50000
_________________
Nobody in the NBA can touch the Laker brand, which, like the uniform color, is pure gold. |
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Zubolo
Starting Rotation
Joined: 09 Jun 2017
Posts: 402
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Almost at the 2000 mark.. |
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anth2000
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 12160
Location: Pasadena, CA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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Chris Bosh???
Yikes, you need to catch up on his health. He can't play again. He could die from blood clots. |
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Kirby Brian
Star Player
Joined: 31 May 2005
Posts: 7920
Location: Chattanooga
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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I had a dream earlier today when I was napping at work.
Lakers sign:
lolbron James
Kawhi Leonard
Paul George
Chris Paul declares for Free Agency and signs for the Veteran Minimum with the Lakers because he'll be getting paid under the table and will make up the money through commercial and reality TV series
Lakers signs Ray Allen and Chris Bosh who both have been working out
Lakers signs Sasha Vujacic.
Ray Allen and Machine on the court at the same time? Choose your poison.
Thank me later |
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kobe_luver
Franchise Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 11644
Location: LA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| 32 wrote: | OddsShark
@OddsShark
Odds to win the 2018-19 NBA Championship (Bovada):
GSW +140
HOU +500
PHI/BOS/LAL +550
SAS +1800
CLE +2400
MIA +5500
TOR +6600
MIN/NO +7500
OKC +8000
MIL/UTA/DEN/IND +10000 LAC/POR/WSH +10000
NYK +15000
PHX +25000
ATL/BKN/CHA +50000
CHI/DAL/DET +50000
MEM/ORL/SAC +50000 |
We're up there with the big boys!!  |
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anth2000
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 12160
Location: Pasadena, CA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Kirby Brian wrote: | I had a dream earlier today when I was napping at work.
Lakers sign:
lolbron James
Kawhi Leonard
Paul George
Chris Paul declares for Free Agency and signs for the Veteran Minimum with the Lakers because he'll be getting paid under the table and will make up the money through commercial and reality TV series
Lakers signs Ray Allen and Chris Bosh who both have been working out
Lakers signs Sasha Vujacic.
Ray Allen and Machine on the court at the same time? Choose your poison.
Thank me later |
You need sleep, bro. You are hallucinating. |
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Kirby Brian
Star Player
Joined: 31 May 2005
Posts: 7920
Location: Chattanooga
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| anth2000 wrote: | Chris Bosh???
Yikes, you need to catch up on his health. He can't play again. He could die from blood clots. |
bro, I saw him on a commercial earlier today for blood clot medication playing golf. He's good to go |
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anth2000
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 12160
Location: Pasadena, CA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Kirby Brian wrote: | | anth2000 wrote: | Chris Bosh???
Yikes, you need to catch up on his health. He can't play again. He could die from blood clots. |
bro, I saw him on a commercial earlier today for blood clot medication playing golf. He's good to go |
Lol...put down the pipe and get some rest.  |
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Mini Mamba
Star Player
Joined: 06 May 2013
Posts: 6006
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Kirby Brian wrote: | | anth2000 wrote: | Chris Bosh???
Yikes, you need to catch up on his health. He can't play again. He could die from blood clots. |
bro, I saw him on a commercial earlier today for blood clot medication playing golf. He's good to go |
Golf is much different than basketball. His career is over.
I wonder if he’d be interested in coaching? He could take Buechler’s spot. |
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kobe_luver
Franchise Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 11644
Location: LA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Kirby Brian wrote: | | anth2000 wrote: | Chris Bosh???
Yikes, you need to catch up on his health. He can't play again. He could die from blood clots. |
bro, I saw him on a commercial earlier today for blood clot medication playing golf. He's good to go |
Blood clot medication doesn't solve everything. You have to be super careful when taking it because you can have internal bleeding and excessive bleeding. Basketball is a very rough contact sport!! |
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TooMuchMajicBuss
Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Sep 2008
Posts: 21072
Location: In a white room, with black curtains near the station
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| anth2000 wrote: | | Kirby Brian wrote: | I had a dream earlier today when I was napping at work.
Lakers sign:
lolbron James
Kawhi Leonard
Paul George
Chris Paul declares for Free Agency and signs for the Veteran Minimum with the Lakers because he'll be getting paid under the table and will make up the money through commercial and reality TV series
Lakers signs Ray Allen and Chris Bosh who both have been working out
Lakers signs Sasha Vujacic.
Ray Allen and Machine on the court at the same time? Choose your poison.
Thank me later |
You need sleep, bro. You are hallucinating. |
Sounds like some good acid Kirb. Minus the Bosh and blood clot stuff. Let's just make it Anthony Davis in a trade for the 47 pick plus Deng. |
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Ziggy
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 12712
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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Gonna party like it's (page) 19-99!   |
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tnell
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2011
Posts: 3185
Location: Over the River And Through The Woods
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Kirby Brian wrote: | I had a dream earlier today when I was napping at work.
Lakers sign:
lolbron James
Kawhi Leonard
Paul George
Chris Paul declares for Free Agency and signs for the Veteran Minimum with the Lakers because he'll be getting paid under the table and will make up the money through commercial and reality TV series
Lakers signs Ray Allen and Chris Bosh who both have been working out
Lakers signs Sasha Vujacic.
Ray Allen and Machine on the court at the same time? Choose your poison.
Thank me later |
I want a hit of whatever you're on my man |
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Kirby Brian
Star Player
Joined: 31 May 2005
Posts: 7920
Location: Chattanooga
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| tnell wrote: | | Kirby Brian wrote: | I had a dream earlier today when I was napping at work.
Lakers sign:
lolbron James
Kawhi Leonard
Paul George
Chris Paul declares for Free Agency and signs for the Veteran Minimum with the Lakers because he'll be getting paid under the table and will make up the money through commercial and reality TV series
Lakers signs Ray Allen and Chris Bosh who both have been working out
Lakers signs Sasha Vujacic.
Ray Allen and Machine on the court at the same time? Choose your poison.
Thank me later |
I want a hit of whatever you're on my man |
Ramona Shelburne |
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kobe_luver
Franchise Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 11644
Location: LA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Kirby Brian wrote: | | tnell wrote: | | Kirby Brian wrote: | I had a dream earlier today when I was napping at work.
Lakers sign:
lolbron James
Kawhi Leonard
Paul George
Chris Paul declares for Free Agency and signs for the Veteran Minimum with the Lakers because he'll be getting paid under the table and will make up the money through commercial and reality TV series
Lakers signs Ray Allen and Chris Bosh who both have been working out
Lakers signs Sasha Vujacic.
Ray Allen and Machine on the court at the same time? Choose your poison.
Thank me later |
I want a hit of whatever you're on my man |
Ramona Shelburne |
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tnell
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2011
Posts: 3185
Location: Over the River And Through The Woods
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Kirby Brian wrote: | | tnell wrote: | | Kirby Brian wrote: | I had a dream earlier today when I was napping at work.
Lakers sign:
lolbron James
Kawhi Leonard
Paul George
Chris Paul declares for Free Agency and signs for the Veteran Minimum with the Lakers because he'll be getting paid under the table and will make up the money through commercial and reality TV series
Lakers signs Ray Allen and Chris Bosh who both have been working out
Lakers signs Sasha Vujacic.
Ray Allen and Machine on the court at the same time? Choose your poison.
Thank me later |
I want a hit of whatever you're on my man |
Ramona Shelburne |
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pjiddy
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 29047
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | It's like Goldilocks and the Three Bears here when it comes to injury
IT... he is TOO small to heal properly
Boogie... he is TOO big to heal properly
Kawhi... he is the perfect size so he will be fine
I understand anyone who is worried about all three injuries.
I understand anyone who is not worried about any of the injuries.
But those who pick and choose... unless you are an experienced orthopedist who has examined all three... I give absolutely no weight to your arguments here. |
Ah, a Goldilocks analogy in lieu of solid medical analysis. Now I feel better. |
You mean the solid medical analysis that says if you are 5 foot 9 you won't heal... if you are 6 foot 11 you won't heal... but if you are 6 foot 7 you should trade away half your team to acquire the guy?
Yeah I love how people cherry pick what is dangerous and what is a non factor based solely on which players they like.
Either you worry about all three... or you should worry about none of them.
Otherwise you are just making up narratives that fit what you want to happen. |
I worried about IT when we traded for him. I always thought he needed surgery. And he did. But i never even wanted him fully healthy. Even Brad Stevens couldn't hide him on defense.
Even before Cousins got hurt, i didn't want him. But with the achilles tear, i wouldn't sign him for a dollar.
Kawhi I would sign but not trade for. He's had this type of injury the last two years. It's not going to magically go away just because he's in a Laker jersey.
You could almost build an all-time team of guys that we knew were hurt or would get hurt but just ignored it, just need a 4.
PG: Nash
SG: Post-Achilles Kobe
SF: Kawhi
PF:
C: Dwight
Last edited by pjiddy on Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Travis Bickle
Star Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2001
Posts: 2895
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| This probably has been discussed but I would like to bring this up. The sp*rs are use to players giving them a discount. Is this a ploy for KL to get the super max out of the sp*rs? |
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