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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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AFireInside619 wrote: | So OKC just got waxed by the Knicks at the Garden, in Melo's return. No Porzingis, no Hardaway. OKC basically got beat by bench players, G league players, and players who were lucky enough to not have to play professionally in a foreign country. |
Beasley put in 30 points for NYK. |
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vicman Star Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005 Posts: 2379 Location: Arcadia
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Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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Inspector Gadget wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Joe Johnson and exum for Brook? |
We need a 1st round pick in that equation, we would also need to find a way to have a follow up deal by getting a big... Noel?? |
The brook trade that makes the most sense and should be fairly easy is noel mcrobets and either Harris or curry whoever they like for brook. Let's us try Noel out before committing to him in fa I think Noel would fit well they should look at getting it done |
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AFireInside619 Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Dec 2015 Posts: 11447
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Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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adkindo wrote: | AFireInside619 wrote: | So OKC just got waxed by the Knicks at the Garden, in Melo's return. No Porzingis, no Hardaway. OKC basically got beat by bench players, G league players, and players who were lucky enough to not have to play professionally in a foreign country. |
Beasley put in 30 points for NYK. |
Beasley looked good. He looks like what he was supposed to be 10 years ago. He had a really good game.
But with every OKC loss I hope more and more for a Paul George trade to the Lakers (Like KCP & Nance or something). I do know that other teams have more to offer if they wanted to throw in draft picks like Boston or Cleveland. So this trade is far from being possible, but one can dream I guess. |
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PHILosophize Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Nov 2012 Posts: 10758
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Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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vicman wrote: | Inspector Gadget wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Joe Johnson and exum for Brook? |
We need a 1st round pick in that equation, we would also need to find a way to have a follow up deal by getting a big... Noel?? |
The brook trade that makes the most sense and should be fairly easy is noel mcrobets and either Harris or curry whoever they like for brook. Let's us try Noel out before committing to him in fa I think Noel would fit well they should look at getting it done |
noel mcroberts and curry would be amazing _________________ one dog goes that way the other dog goes the other way |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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PHILosophize wrote: | adkindo wrote: | PHILosophize wrote: | cal1piggy wrote: | PHILosophize wrote: | I think it's because Utah is 12 mill under the cap, if I'm understanding your question correctly. Lopez alone would also work according to the trade machine but I think they would want at least Nance to make it a better deal. |
just checked again. they are over the cap.
http://www.spotrac.com/nba/utah-jazz/cap/ |
hmm weird
idk why the trade machine said it would work then
trade machine also says we are 3 mill under and utah is 12 mill under if I'm reading it correctly
anyone have any ideas? |
we are $3 Million over cap, and Utah is $12 Million over....hence the negative sign under cap room |
gotcha so that makes sense then (I thought -12 meant 12 under)
but then do you know why that trade still works? |
I really do not. Is Ennis's contract fully guaranteed for this season? In theory, Utah is limited to take back the amount of salary going out plus $5 Million because it is under $19.6 Million threshold....but that should only allow Utah to take back $24,379,249.....I do not see a way for it to work even if the salaries are not aggregated. If for some reason Ennis salary does not guarantee until January....which I do not think is true....then that may make sense |
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cal1piggy Star Player
Joined: 19 Jul 2017 Posts: 2584
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Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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adkindo wrote: | PHILosophize wrote: | adkindo wrote: | PHILosophize wrote: | cal1piggy wrote: | PHILosophize wrote: | I think it's because Utah is 12 mill under the cap, if I'm understanding your question correctly. Lopez alone would also work according to the trade machine but I think they would want at least Nance to make it a better deal. |
just checked again. they are over the cap.
http://www.spotrac.com/nba/utah-jazz/cap/ |
hmm weird
idk why the trade machine said it would work then
trade machine also says we are 3 mill under and utah is 12 mill under if I'm reading it correctly
anyone have any ideas? |
we are $3 Million over cap, and Utah is $12 Million over....hence the negative sign under cap room |
gotcha so that makes sense then (I thought -12 meant 12 under)
but then do you know why that trade still works? |
I really do not. Is Ennis's contract fully guaranteed for this season? In theory, Utah is limited to take back the amount of salary going out plus $5 Million because it is under $19.6 Million threshold....but that should only allow Utah to take back $24,379,249.....I do not see a way for it to work even if the salaries are not aggregated. If for some reason Ennis salary does not guarantee until January....which I do not think is true....then that may make sense |
if u include the 5M, it is pretty close.
what is the 5M again? |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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cal1piggy wrote: | if u include the 5M, it is pretty close.
what is the 5M again? |
for non-tax paying teams (which includes both the Lakers and Jazz), the salary rules for trades as I understand them...
-- Outgoing salary - $0 to $6,533,333 - Maximum incoming salary - 175% of the outgoing salary, plus $100,000
-- Outgoing salary - $6,533,334 to $19.6 million - Maximum incoming salary - The outgoing salary plus $5 million
-- Outgoing salary - $19.6 million and up - Maximum incoming salary - 125% of the outgoing salary, plus $100,000 |
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Luminous8 Star Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2017 Posts: 2192
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Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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I'm still on board for Randle/Deng for Mathews/Noel if we end knowing we have to get rid of JR ultimately. |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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adkindo wrote: | cal1piggy wrote: | if u include the 5M, it is pretty close.
what is the 5M again? |
for non-tax paying teams (which includes both the Lakers and Jazz), the salary rules for trades as I understand them...
-- Outgoing salary - $0 to $6,533,333 - Maximum incoming salary - 175% of the outgoing salary, plus $100,000
-- Outgoing salary - $6,533,334 to $19.6 million - Maximum incoming salary - The outgoing salary plus $5 million
-- Outgoing salary - $19.6 million and up - Maximum incoming salary - 125% of the outgoing salary, plus $100,000 |
I am just guessing here....but since Ennis is on a minimum contract, the minimum player exception can be included in the trade, and not count within the salary requirements/limitations.
So the salary portion of the trade is...
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yaeuo8d4
then Ennis can be included with the minimum player exception.
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cal1piggy Star Player
Joined: 19 Jul 2017 Posts: 2584
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Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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adkindo wrote: | cal1piggy wrote: | if u include the 5M, it is pretty close.
what is the 5M again? |
for non-tax paying teams (which includes both the Lakers and Jazz), the salary rules for trades as I understand them...
-- Outgoing salary - $0 to $6,533,333 - Maximum incoming salary - 175% of the outgoing salary, plus $100,000
-- Outgoing salary - $6,533,334 to $19.6 million - Maximum incoming salary - The outgoing salary plus $5 million
-- Outgoing salary - $19.6 million and up - Maximum incoming salary - 125% of the outgoing salary, plus $100,000 |
but in both case, it is more than 20m? |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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cal1piggy wrote: | adkindo wrote: | cal1piggy wrote: | if u include the 5M, it is pretty close.
what is the 5M again? |
for non-tax paying teams (which includes both the Lakers and Jazz), the salary rules for trades as I understand them...
-- Outgoing salary - $0 to $6,533,333 - Maximum incoming salary - 175% of the outgoing salary, plus $100,000
-- Outgoing salary - $6,533,334 to $19.6 million - Maximum incoming salary - The outgoing salary plus $5 million
-- Outgoing salary - $19.6 million and up - Maximum incoming salary - 125% of the outgoing salary, plus $100,000 |
but in both case, it is more than 20m? |
--from the Lakers perspective, $24-$25+Million is going out....so they are limited to 125% of the amount going out....so the Lakers can take over $30 Million back in as long as they remain below the tax threshold. Must follow the over $19.6 Million rule.
--from the Jazz perspective, in the example I provided, $19,379,249 is going out, so they can take back $24,379249 ($19,379,249 + $5,000,000) as long as they remain below the tax threshold. Must follow the $6,533,334 to $19.6 million rule.
Keep in mind, I could be completely wrong....I am not an expert in CBA stuff. |
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LakerLogic Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Mar 2005 Posts: 17886
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Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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OKC lost to the Knicks without Porzingis. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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Luminous8 wrote: | I'm still on board for Randle/Deng for Mathews/Noel if we end knowing we have to get rid of JR ultimately. |
Doesn’t Matthews have a player option which could ruin the 2 max? _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Luminous8 wrote: | I'm still on board for Randle/Deng for Mathews/Noel if we end knowing we have to get rid of JR ultimately. |
Doesn’t Matthews have a player option which could ruin the 2 max? |
he does, but I assume he is thinking it would be easier to trade him or less costly to waive him? |
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MJST Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 26085
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Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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AFireInside619 wrote: | adkindo wrote: | AFireInside619 wrote: | So OKC just got waxed by the Knicks at the Garden, in Melo's return. No Porzingis, no Hardaway. OKC basically got beat by bench players, G league players, and players who were lucky enough to not have to play professionally in a foreign country. |
Beasley put in 30 points for NYK. |
Beasley looked good. He looks like what he was supposed to be 10 years ago. He had a really good game.
But with every OKC loss I hope more and more for a Paul George trade to the Lakers (Like KCP & Nance or something). I do know that other teams have more to offer if they wanted to throw in draft picks like Boston or Cleveland. So this trade is far from being possible, but one can dream I guess. |
The Bulls are 1 win away from matching our record and they've been record-wise the worst team in the league.
Now ain't the time to think Paul George is gonna come here. Paul George isn't even a difference maker in OKC as of right now and is showing why he wasn't on any All-NBA team last year. The problem is he doesn't think that about himself.
Anyway, I'd say that with each loss the Thunder are closer to firing Billy Donovan than the Lakers are to getting Paul George. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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AFireInside619 Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Dec 2015 Posts: 11447
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Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:51 am Post subject: |
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MJST wrote: | AFireInside619 wrote: | adkindo wrote: | AFireInside619 wrote: | So OKC just got waxed by the Knicks at the Garden, in Melo's return. No Porzingis, no Hardaway. OKC basically got beat by bench players, G league players, and players who were lucky enough to not have to play professionally in a foreign country. |
Beasley put in 30 points for NYK. |
Beasley looked good. He looks like what he was supposed to be 10 years ago. He had a really good game.
But with every OKC loss I hope more and more for a Paul George trade to the Lakers (Like KCP & Nance or something). I do know that other teams have more to offer if they wanted to throw in draft picks like Boston or Cleveland. So this trade is far from being possible, but one can dream I guess. |
The Bulls are 1 win away from matching our record and they've been record-wise the worst team in the league.
Now ain't the time to think Paul George is gonna come here. Paul George isn't even a difference maker in OKC as of right now and is showing why he wasn't on any All-NBA team last year. The problem is he doesn't think that about himself.
Anyway, I'd say that with each loss the Thunder are closer to firing Billy Donovan than the Lakers are to getting Paul George. |
Oh yeah, Donovan is a dead man walking. Maybe he'll do better with a Westbrook-less team. I was also pointing out issues with Paul George a few days ago, until I read Twitter comments from one of my favorite Lakers podcast. Dude was like, people acting like we are too good to go for Paul George. He kinda has a point. Paul George himself won't lead us to the promise land though, but he's better than what we have so far. |
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MJST Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 26085
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Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:13 am Post subject: |
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AFireInside619 wrote: | MJST wrote: | AFireInside619 wrote: | adkindo wrote: | AFireInside619 wrote: | So OKC just got waxed by the Knicks at the Garden, in Melo's return. No Porzingis, no Hardaway. OKC basically got beat by bench players, G league players, and players who were lucky enough to not have to play professionally in a foreign country. |
Beasley put in 30 points for NYK. |
Beasley looked good. He looks like what he was supposed to be 10 years ago. He had a really good game.
But with every OKC loss I hope more and more for a Paul George trade to the Lakers (Like KCP & Nance or something). I do know that other teams have more to offer if they wanted to throw in draft picks like Boston or Cleveland. So this trade is far from being possible, but one can dream I guess. |
The Bulls are 1 win away from matching our record and they've been record-wise the worst team in the league.
Now ain't the time to think Paul George is gonna come here. Paul George isn't even a difference maker in OKC as of right now and is showing why he wasn't on any All-NBA team last year. The problem is he doesn't think that about himself.
Anyway, I'd say that with each loss the Thunder are closer to firing Billy Donovan than the Lakers are to getting Paul George. |
Oh yeah, Donovan is a dead man walking. Maybe he'll do better with a Westbrook-less team. I was also pointing out issues with Paul George a few days ago, until I read Twitter comments from one of my favorite Lakers podcast. Dude was like, people acting like we are too good to go for Paul George. He kinda has a point. Paul George himself won't lead us to the promise land though, but he's better than what we have so far. |
Yeah George would be the best current player on the team.. at the same time, my stance on him has always been a bit controversial, so I guess I'll try to explain it as best I can.
I don't think we're too good for Paul George, as I think we could use all the help we can get.
But at the same time, I think that we're good enough from a prospect standpoint to not need to spend 30M on him to come and be the face of our franchise, or at least act like he's a piece that would be some kind of savior.
I think Paul George to be honest is a glorified role player. The problem is he thinks he's a main guy, not a role player.
Basically this is how I see it.
If Luke ever gets his head out [expletive] and plays Ingram and Kuzma at the 2 and 3 post all-star break and they perform the way I think they will (Ingram at the 2, Kuzma at the 3) then basically I'm thinking that...
Ingram will close the season averaging 18 ppg
Kuzma will close it averaging 17-18 ppg as well
Yes with Ingram at the 2 and Kuzma at the 3 I see that happening.
Anyway my perspective is.. if that happens..
Do we really need to spend 30M on Paul George? It's not about being too good for him it's about understanding where our team currently is..
Given where our players are already progressing to at 20-22 do we need George at 29-30? Is it really going to matter at any point over the next 2 seasons?
When it comes to our positions, I think that a much more important upgrade is at center. I also don't think George is doing himself any favors to prove he's a 'max contract' this off-season.
The numbers he's putting up this year..are essentially the same numbers we were hoping KCP would be putting up for us when we got him next to Lonzo X_X seriously..
I think it was fair to hope that KCP would be putting up 38-40% from three and 17-18 ppg next to Lonzo with him getting so many opportunities despite probably shooting 41% from the field in general cause he can't finish.
This season George is putting up 20/5.7/3.2 on 40% from the field and 41% from three.
If anything, he's showing that he's a role player. That right now the best place for him on a team wouldn't be as the franchise player/savior, but as an upgraded version of what KCP's currently role for us is.
But he wants the ball, he wants to be the man, he wants to take the last shot. That's not the mentality that we'll want here, particularly as he keeps going to the media about stuff like this. Which OKC deals with now.
George has always had leadership and slight maturity problems that weren't based around his team losing, it just seems and the moment Granger was no longer around, those problems came more to the front.
Now let me say this, above all else, if I thought Paul George was mentally capable of accepting an upgraded KCP role on the Lakers as that kind of role player or Nightwing, I'd be all for it, but I doubt he will or would.
I personally think that if Ingram plays well at the 2, he has more value than George, and if Kuzma plays well at the 3, he too has more value than George.
Now would they have more 'immediate' value than George? No.
But at the same time if we realistically look at where the Lakers currently are.. immediate.. isn't really that important. Not unless we're contending for a Championship next year.
We aren't.
We aren't challenging the Warriors no matter what our roster looks like till maybe around the 2019-2020 season when our kids have grown a bit more into their games. Because their growth is what's going to matter the most in terms of our long term success as well as short term.
So the point of getting George would be what? To not make any serious attempt at a run at anything till he's around 31 while paying him 30M a year? Particularly as I believe he's a role player, I don't think he's worth it for where the team currently is unless he was willing to accept his role as a role player. But with his mindset, and coming to a team of 'kids' I doubt he would ever accept that.
One of the reasons I vouch for Cousins is because, unlike George, he is actually the best player in the league at his position and definitely wouldn't be a 'role player' on this team.
If you were to ask me which starting lineup I'd prefer
Lonzo Ball
Brandon Ingram
Kyle Kuzma
Julius Randle
DeMarcus Cousins
or
Lonzo Ball
Paul George
Brandon Ingram
Kyle Kuzma / Julius Randle
Noel.. or Zubac
I'd pick the first one. Because watching what George did for Indiana since returning, and what he's contributed to OKC in a secondary role... I just don't see him as that guy. Mentally he thinks so, but I just don't see it.
If we could convince Paul George to take less than the max, and to accept a role as a very upgraded KCP-type in terms of how the team would utilize him, then we'd definitely have something.
But as I've already said, probably too much lol, I don't think he has that in him to accept. But that's fine, that's what makes him Paul George.. but it's also why, I personally don't think he's the guy for here.
What team would he be a much better fit with that would also fit the mentality he has?
Probably Houston tbh. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk
Last edited by MJST on Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:31 am; edited 2 times in total |
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AFireInside619 Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Dec 2015 Posts: 11447
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Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:26 am Post subject: |
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Another thing to think about is, will PG13 be willing to play the 2 guard again? If not there will be some serious issues going forward. |
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MJST Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 26085
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Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:29 am Post subject: |
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AFireInside619 wrote: | Another thing to think about is, will PG13 be willing to play the 2 guard again? If not there will be some serious issues going forward. |
There's that too _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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KeepItRealOrElse Retired Number
Joined: 11 Oct 2012 Posts: 32767
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Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:39 am Post subject: |
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AFireInside619 wrote: | Another thing to think about is, will PG13 be willing to play the 2 guard again? If not there will be some serious issues going forward. |
I don't think that's an issue with how long/switchable we'd be 1-3. Whoever wants a night of rest on defense can take the weakest 1-3 guy |
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ToastedMuffins Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 Apr 2016 Posts: 589
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Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:58 am Post subject: |
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AFireInside619 wrote: | Another thing to think about is, will PG13 be willing to play the 2 guard again? If not there will be some serious issues going forward. |
From what I recall, one of George's issues in Indiana was that he hated having to play the 4. Never heard anything about him being opposed to playing at 2 guard. |
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giordan0 Star Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2016 Posts: 1013
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Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:36 am Post subject: |
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2 and 3 are fairly interchangeable roles in what Luke is running. |
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2019 Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Dec 2014 Posts: 10786
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Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:04 am Post subject: |
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ToastedMuffins wrote: | AFireInside619 wrote: | Another thing to think about is, will PG13 be willing to play the 2 guard again? If not there will be some serious issues going forward. |
From what I recall, one of George's issues in Indiana was that he hated having to play the 4. Never heard anything about him being opposed to playing at 2 guard. |
this.
PG in KCP's spots would be so effective... |
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Bard207 Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2013 Posts: 7713
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Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:21 am Post subject: |
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If they give Paul George the max, it would be just about impossible to convince him to just be a better KCP.
A contract with a first year salary of $30 million is going to be double (or more) of what KCP is going to get.
A better KCP would be getting a contract with a first year salary of $18 - $20 million. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:23 am Post subject: |
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PG and boogie. Keep one of jc or jules. Pretty simple. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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