OFFICIAL 2018 FREE AGENCY THREAD (7/24 Update: LAL Has Full 15 Man Roster; p.1 - Remaining FAs, Notable Expiring Contracts & Lakers' 2019 Cap)
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CRoost
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:10 am    Post subject:

RI Laker wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
Basically the Lakers chose max 2019 cap space over keeping Randle long term.

As long as Lakers front office can fill that max 2019 with a star player then it was worth losing Randle. But if the front office misses out on any 2019 star, then it retrospect it would not be considered a good move.


Its a great move because it gives us the chance to get a star. The FO could have played it safe and signed him long term and we would never have a punchers chance of winning a championship. The FO was transparent in what they were/are trying to do. We all know going into this season that the construction of this team would not be finalized until next year. The FO was astute in not trading young developing assets to jumpstart this team for this year. The patience of the FO will hopefully pay big dividends next season.


This .

Our FO has that vision. After PG resigned with the Thunder, it was better for us to wait next year. Jules was a loss but getting Lebron will minimize what he does best anyway.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:21 am    Post subject:

The Lakers have gone from 28 to 8 in the Bleacher report rankings after the Lebron signing.
The only reason the Lakers are not ranked higher is weakness in the center position.
And the lack of perceived 3 point shooting.
Signing Rondo was a big factor also for Lonzo was injured a lot and had no capable backup. Rondo changes all that.
Hopefully, McGee and Zubac can handle the center position against the bigger centers. Doubt if Wagner is quite ready.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:24 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
Julianlakers24 wrote:
Heat making whiteside , dion & tyler tradeable. Anyone willing to trade for whiteside?


Depends on the trade and where the FO thinks his health and head is at.

A couple years ago Whiteside was highly desired around here as a FA target. I haven’t followed the Heat close enough to know why he has become undesirable. Looks like injuries and some unclear attitude issues with Spoelstra. When healthy he put up solid numbers. More of a defensive presence and rebounder then offensive threat.

What am I missing?

If the Lakers could get him for Deng and Zubac or Wagner for instance. Would that change anyone’s mind?


Hassan is a dinosaur. Waste of cap space. No thanks.


Totally!
Anyone watching the NBA the last few years knows that these, slow, lumbering centers are a relic of the past.
Especially ones making the kind of money (and cap space), as Hassan.
And I wanted to sign him back when he was a FA too.
And please no comparisons to Gobert, Capella, Embiid, AD etc.
They are totally different types of players.
I think our "3 headed monster" of McGee, Mo and Zub will see under 30 mpg combined. We'll go small a bunch.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:28 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
Julianlakers24 wrote:
Heat making whiteside , dion & tyler tradeable. Anyone willing to trade for whiteside?


Depends on the trade and where the FO thinks his health and head is at.

A couple years ago Whiteside was highly desired around here as a FA target. I haven’t followed the Heat close enough to know why he has become undesirable. Looks like injuries and some unclear attitude issues with Spoelstra. When healthy he put up solid numbers. More of a defensive presence and rebounder then offensive threat.

What am I missing?

If the Lakers could get him for Deng and Zubac or Wagner for instance. Would that change anyone’s mind?


Hassan is a dinosaur. Waste of cap space. No thanks.


I am not interested in his contract.....but why is everyone so down on Whiteside and his contract, but act like Steven Adams is decent value? Whiteside is more productive in many ways than Adams in less MPG.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:33 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
Julianlakers24 wrote:
Heat making whiteside , dion & tyler tradeable. Anyone willing to trade for whiteside?


Depends on the trade and where the FO thinks his health and head is at.

A couple years ago Whiteside was highly desired around here as a FA target. I haven’t followed the Heat close enough to know why he has become undesirable. Looks like injuries and some unclear attitude issues with Spoelstra. When healthy he put up solid numbers. More of a defensive presence and rebounder then offensive threat.

What am I missing?

If the Lakers could get him for Deng and Zubac or Wagner for instance. Would that change anyone’s mind?


Hassan is a dinosaur. Waste of cap space. No thanks.


I am not interested in his contract.....but why is everyone so down on Whiteside and his contract, but act like Steven Adams is decent value? Whiteside is more productive in many ways than Adams in less MPG.


Adams is known as a hard worker, some have questioned Whitesides lack of effort.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:49 am    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
adkindo wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
Julianlakers24 wrote:
Heat making whiteside , dion & tyler tradeable. Anyone willing to trade for whiteside?


Depends on the trade and where the FO thinks his health and head is at.

A couple years ago Whiteside was highly desired around here as a FA target. I haven’t followed the Heat close enough to know why he has become undesirable. Looks like injuries and some unclear attitude issues with Spoelstra. When healthy he put up solid numbers. More of a defensive presence and rebounder then offensive threat.

What am I missing?

If the Lakers could get him for Deng and Zubac or Wagner for instance. Would that change anyone’s mind?


Hassan is a dinosaur. Waste of cap space. No thanks.


I am not interested in his contract.....but why is everyone so down on Whiteside and his contract, but act like Steven Adams is decent value? Whiteside is more productive in many ways than Adams in less MPG.


Adams is known as a hard worker, some have questioned Whitesides lack of effort.


Adams is also 4 years younger and regarded as a team player. Whiteside has caused issues in the locker room.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:52 am    Post subject:

Julianlakers24 wrote:
Heat making whiteside , dion & tyler tradeable. Anyone willing to trade for whiteside?


If you trade for Whiteside, you are taking yourself out of 2019 free agency. No Kawhi, Butler or Klay.

The reason that Lakers won't waive Deng now though is if we strike out on 2019 Free Agency, we would likely use his expiring contract to go after Whiteside or another overpaid player.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:54 am    Post subject:

LakerMindLA wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
adkindo wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
Julianlakers24 wrote:
Heat making whiteside , dion & tyler tradeable. Anyone willing to trade for whiteside?


Depends on the trade and where the FO thinks his health and head is at.

A couple years ago Whiteside was highly desired around here as a FA target. I haven’t followed the Heat close enough to know why he has become undesirable. Looks like injuries and some unclear attitude issues with Spoelstra. When healthy he put up solid numbers. More of a defensive presence and rebounder then offensive threat.

What am I missing?

If the Lakers could get him for Deng and Zubac or Wagner for instance. Would that change anyone’s mind?


Hassan is a dinosaur. Waste of cap space. No thanks.


I am not interested in his contract.....but why is everyone so down on Whiteside and his contract, but act like Steven Adams is decent value? Whiteside is more productive in many ways than Adams in less MPG.


Adams is known as a hard worker, some have questioned Whitesides lack of effort.


Adams is also 4 years younger and regarded as a team player. Whiteside has caused issues in the locker room.


I get all that...but I still do not think that accounts for the disparity in the way their value is viewed...especially since I do not think anyone feels there is a significant amount of untapped potential with Adams.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:18 pm    Post subject:

Adams you know what you're getting though, he doesn't go outside of what he is. He knows his role and plays to its strengths.

Whiteside is the opposite end of that spectrum.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:53 pm    Post subject:

Adams is aquaman so that's a no brainer
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 3:11 pm    Post subject:

Ive grown weary of Whiteside because I get eerily similar vibes to Dwight Howard, but I honestly think with a LBJ he could seriously be a useful player. Much easier to play to your strengths when you have a true alpha like LBJ or Westrbook atop The team.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 3:35 pm    Post subject:

Whiteside doesn't fit into what Spo wants to do.

What he wants to do and what Spo wants him to do are now two completely different things.

Style-wise both Wagner and Zubac fit better into what we're doing.

If Luke however wanted to run strictly like how they did it in Golden State and use Whiteside as an upgraded Bogut, then great.

But that's precisely what Whiteside does NOT want to do in Miami. He wants to be a part of the offense, and not be simply asked to rebound and play defense. Which is what Bogut was asked to do.

That + the contract is where the hangups are currently.

It's not that a center of Whiteside's caliber has no value, he absolutely does, just not in the role Spo wants him in, which is pretty much the role Luke would want him in, in terms of pecking order and job to do.


If you wanted to make an argument for it, you could argue that in Miami where he's the best player it's understandable why he'd be more frustrated with his role, and here with more stars he'd accept a lesser one. But there's no evidence to suggest he'd 'sacrifice for the good of the team' tbh.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 3:41 pm    Post subject:

CRoost wrote:
RI Laker wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
Basically the Lakers chose max 2019 cap space over keeping Randle long term.

As long as Lakers front office can fill that max 2019 with a star player then it was worth losing Randle. But if the front office misses out on any 2019 star, then it retrospect it would not be considered a good move.


Its a great move because it gives us the chance to get a star. The FO could have played it safe and signed him long term and we would never have a punchers chance of winning a championship. The FO was transparent in what they were/are trying to do. We all know going into this season that the construction of this team would not be finalized until next year. The FO was astute in not trading young developing assets to jumpstart this team for this year. The patience of the FO will hopefully pay big dividends next season.


This .

Our FO has that vision. After PG resigned with the Thunder, it was better for us to wait next year. Jules was a loss but getting Lebron will minimize what he does best anyway.


That depends on what we get from the center of our team. McGee and Zubac. Because if the option was "LeBron is gonna play 3 and Julius is gonna play 4" then that would be an irrelevant argument.

But if the option was "LeBron is gonna play 4, and Randle is gonna play 5" then you'd be hard pressed to find a better player at the 5, particularly in a 'death lineup' vs the Warriors with LeBron at the 4 and Jules at the 5.

But once more we're at a point where next off-season will dictate how this trade turns out.

If Randle has a monster year, and the Lakers strike out on free agency, then yes, not giving Randle a 2nd year and taking another gamble will look like a stupid decision.

If the Lakers sign a healthy Jimmy Butler however, then the blow is lessened.

it's essentially how we looked at this off-season. Had the Lakers signed no max free agent, then moving Russell would have been looked at as stupid. But we signed LeBron, so the gamble paid off.

Next off-season it's the same thing. We're either going to be in a position where we say "well it was a gamble that paid off" or we'll be in a position where we say "we should have kept him instead of betting on lightning to strike twice and we've just OKC'd ourselves."

So essentially, pressure is gonna be on the Lakers to sign a max next off-season. Though I think Jimmy Butler is near a sure thing....if he gets out of this season healthy with Thibs as his coach X_X
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:27 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
CRoost wrote:
RI Laker wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
Basically the Lakers chose max 2019 cap space over keeping Randle long term.

As long as Lakers front office can fill that max 2019 with a star player then it was worth losing Randle. But if the front office misses out on any 2019 star, then it retrospect it would not be considered a good move.


Its a great move because it gives us the chance to get a star. The FO could have played it safe and signed him long term and we would never have a punchers chance of winning a championship. The FO was transparent in what they were/are trying to do. We all know going into this season that the construction of this team would not be finalized until next year. The FO was astute in not trading young developing assets to jumpstart this team for this year. The patience of the FO will hopefully pay big dividends next season.


This .

Our FO has that vision. After PG resigned with the Thunder, it was better for us to wait next year. Jules was a loss but getting Lebron will minimize what he does best anyway.


That depends on what we get from the center of our team. McGee and Zubac. Because if the option was "LeBron is gonna play 3 and Julius is gonna play 4" then that would be an irrelevant argument.

But if the option was "LeBron is gonna play 4, and Randle is gonna play 5" then you'd be hard pressed to find a better player at the 5, particularly in a 'death lineup' vs the Warriors with LeBron at the 4 and Jules at the 5.

But once more we're at a point where next off-season will dictate how this trade turns out.

If Randle has a monster year, and the Lakers strike out on free agency, then yes, not giving Randle a 2nd year and taking another gamble will look like a stupid decision.

If the Lakers sign a healthy Jimmy Butler however, then the blow is lessened.

it's essentially how we looked at this off-season. Had the Lakers signed no max free agent, then moving Russell would have been looked at as stupid. But we signed LeBron, so the gamble paid off.

Next off-season it's the same thing. We're either going to be in a position where we say "well it was a gamble that paid off" or we'll be in a position where we say "we should have kept him instead of betting on lightning to strike twice and we've just OKC'd ourselves."

So essentially, pressure is gonna be on the Lakers to sign a max next off-season. Though I think Jimmy Butler is near a sure thing....if he gets out of this season healthy with Thibs as his coach X_X


Mentioned previously that it will be difficult for Randle to have a monster year stat wise.

AD, Jrue, Mirotice and even Moore will get theirs on offense and unless Randle starts shooting and making mid-range shots he will be limited in his opportunities similar to his role with the Lakers.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:58 am    Post subject:

it is so dead, I downloaded and listened to part of Dunc'd On's offseason grades....need college football or something to start. I found myself looking deep into the Red's farm system last week.....
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 12:01 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Adrian Wojnarowski Verified account
@wojespn

Cleveland is finalizing a trade to acquire Los Angeles Clippers forward Sam Dekker, league sources tell ESPN.



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:43 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
CRoost wrote:
RI Laker wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
Basically the Lakers chose max 2019 cap space over keeping Randle long term.

As long as Lakers front office can fill that max 2019 with a star player then it was worth losing Randle. But if the front office misses out on any 2019 star, then it retrospect it would not be considered a good move.


Its a great move because it gives us the chance to get a star. The FO could have played it safe and signed him long term and we would never have a punchers chance of winning a championship. The FO was transparent in what they were/are trying to do. We all know going into this season that the construction of this team would not be finalized until next year. The FO was astute in not trading young developing assets to jumpstart this team for this year. The patience of the FO will hopefully pay big dividends next season.


This .

Our FO has that vision. After PG resigned with the Thunder, it was better for us to wait next year. Jules was a loss but getting Lebron will minimize what he does best anyway.


That depends on what we get from the center of our team. McGee and Zubac. Because if the option was "LeBron is gonna play 3 and Julius is gonna play 4" then that would be an irrelevant argument.

But if the option was "LeBron is gonna play 4, and Randle is gonna play 5" then you'd be hard pressed to find a better player at the 5, particularly in a 'death lineup' vs the Warriors with LeBron at the 4 and Jules at the 5.

But once more we're at a point where next off-season will dictate how this trade turns out.

If Randle has a monster year, and the Lakers strike out on free agency, then yes, not giving Randle a 2nd year and taking another gamble will look like a stupid decision.

If the Lakers sign a healthy Jimmy Butler however, then the blow is lessened.

it's essentially how we looked at this off-season. Had the Lakers signed no max free agent, then moving Russell would have been looked at as stupid. But we signed LeBron, so the gamble paid off.

Next off-season it's the same thing. We're either going to be in a position where we say "well it was a gamble that paid off" or we'll be in a position where we say "we should have kept him instead of betting on lightning to strike twice and we've just OKC'd ourselves."

So essentially, pressure is gonna be on the Lakers to sign a max next off-season. Though I think Jimmy Butler is near a sure thing....if he gets out of this season healthy with Thibs as his coach X_X


Ingram will play the 3 and Lebron will be the 4. At 5, We need a rim protector so to speak. In essence, we need our guys to be aggressive defensively and have someone protect the paint as the last line of defense. I ain't talking about the whole game but someone who can set that tone from the start. Randle will not be that player. Sure he can play the small center but with Lebron out there , we won't be able to utilize his skillset and we know that he can't spread the floor at this time. Kuzma is the better fit for the small ball center.

And lol about Randle having a monster year. He's a role player that need to cater his game to AD. I would have kept Randle if that was his market value but unfortunately our FO did not view him like I did and so the rest of the league.

Anyway, I would rather have the cap space to have the opportunity to sign another marquee player than Jules. Considering we are trying to win starting next year, that’s more ideal than hoping Jules to become one.


Last edited by CRoost on Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:17 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 11:17 pm    Post subject:

lakerz32 wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
Basically the Lakers chose max 2019 cap space over keeping Randle long term.

As long as Lakers front office can fill that max 2019 with a star player then it was worth losing Randle. But if the front office misses out on any 2019 star, then it retrospect it would not be considered a good move.


yup

just to add to this, I think its possible that other gm's were asking more than what we presume to take on deng, or at least more than what the lakers were comfortable with.

pelinka mentioned that 'other teams aren't going to want to help us." which makes sense, although its a business, their are some personal emotions involved. due to lakers past success, no gm wants to be the one that helped create a laker superteam/dynasty.

another report from a rival executive suggested it would take at least hart and a first round pick to get rid of deng(mentioned our picks don't have much value because they are probably late picks). I think this was reported after randle was renounced

other gms/organizations are smart, they know the lakers cap situation, and they know what the lakers can try to do. if the lakers signed randle to a 9-12 million a year figure, that screams alarm bells to all the other gm's, that the lakers NEED to trade deng in order to create max cap space, so other gm's gain.a lot of leverage, and can squeeze the lakers as much as possible. maybe the price is now hart and two first round picks

tldr: the price of moving deng may have been more than the lakers were comfortable with


The Nuggets were able to unload 21M (Faried/Arthur) on the Nets for only a 1st round pick.

IMO dumping Deng+2 1st round picks in the 20’s for an exp k would have been worth signing Randle long term+maintaining a max slot

Lopez-bulls
Faried-nets
Chandler-suns
Lin-ATL
ZBo-kings
Asik-bulls
Shumpert-Kings
Dudley-nets
Koufos-Kings

Deng/2 1st/4M cash for one of the above exp k would have had a team taking on around 18M in salary for 2 1st.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:32 am    Post subject:

Car54 wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
Old argument but still hasn't changed IMO. Randle should have been a higher priority by the FO. Multi skilled developing 23 year old that potentially could learn how to be that player he believes himself to be playing beside James for the next 3-4 years.


Maybe (and I wanted him to be a part of the long term future). But we are replacing him with LBJ and will have a max slot for 2019. All's not lost. And he may be changing teams if he plays well for the Pels, so he may be a 1 year rental (and still has to beat out Mirotic for the starting spot IMO).


Simply not a fan of how this played out. I did not view it as "replacing Randle with James". I can see them playing together. Or Randle getting mpg as James is on the bench.

I would have preferred the Lakers establish some continuity and player chemistry. On paper I like this roster. We will have to see how that translates to the court. I would have preferred less focus on one year deals and "next summer" and more on this team, this year. JMO but Randle should have been more of a priority.

And I am not looking at this season as lost. Actually becoming much more optimistic then I ever expected. FO just needs to remain patient and reluctant to the temptations of the next big move until next summer. Then the argument over free agents and roster turnover can begin again.


We have Lonzo, BI, Kuz, Hart, Zubac returning. That's a lot of continuity with the young core. LBJ will be literally replacing Jules' spot at PF and small ball center.


Forgot KCP.

Simply not a fan of the concept that James is going to play any significant mpg as small ball C. Even PF is a concern. Can James play it.. sure. But should he?

I would have preferred paying Randle $12-15M for the next 4 years to take on that wear and tear instead of paying James almost $40m accumulating that abuse over that time.

Personally I am hoping that the center trio play a lot more mpg then most are expecting. Perhaps Wagner can develop into that physical hard working PF/C that is a missing piece on this team. Not expecting it this year, but hoping.


The NBA clearly doesn’t value him as a player similarly to you. It’s not just the Lakers, it was the entire league. He only got 9 mil for 2 years, teams didn’t want him that badly.

And when you consider who his agent is, he wasn’t going to be willing to sign with the Lakers for a fair price comparable to his market value.


He was restricted


And how many teams even had cap space?
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:19 am    Post subject:

https://mobile.twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1026523458132271104
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:27 am    Post subject:

Two more players to get less than previously?
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:12 am    Post subject:

dcarter4kobe wrote:
lakerz32 wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
Basically the Lakers chose max 2019 cap space over keeping Randle long term.

As long as Lakers front office can fill that max 2019 with a star player then it was worth losing Randle. But if the front office misses out on any 2019 star, then it retrospect it would not be considered a good move.


yup

just to add to this, I think its possible that other gm's were asking more than what we presume to take on deng, or at least more than what the lakers were comfortable with.

pelinka mentioned that 'other teams aren't going to want to help us." which makes sense, although its a business, their are some personal emotions involved. due to lakers past success, no gm wants to be the one that helped create a laker superteam/dynasty.

another report from a rival executive suggested it would take at least hart and a first round pick to get rid of deng(mentioned our picks don't have much value because they are probably late picks). I think this was reported after randle was renounced

other gms/organizations are smart, they know the lakers cap situation, and they know what the lakers can try to do. if the lakers signed randle to a 9-12 million a year figure, that screams alarm bells to all the other gm's, that the lakers NEED to trade deng in order to create max cap space, so other gm's gain.a lot of leverage, and can squeeze the lakers as much as possible. maybe the price is now hart and two first round picks

tldr: the price of moving deng may have been more than the lakers were comfortable with


The Nuggets were able to unload 21M (Faried/Arthur) on the Nets for only a 1st round pick.

IMO dumping Deng+2 1st round picks in the 20’s for an exp k would have been worth signing Randle long term+maintaining a max slot

Lopez-bulls
Faried-nets
Chandler-suns
Lin-ATL
ZBo-kings
Asik-bulls
Shumpert-Kings
Dudley-nets
Koufos-Kings

Deng/2 1st/4M cash for one of the above exp k would have had a team taking on around 18M in salary for 2 1st.



Nets have all their contracts ending in 2019. hence they took on 21m.

Deng has 37m left on his contract over 2 years. nobody is taking that much salary for 2 late 1st rounders
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cyborgspider
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:40 am    Post subject:

Jesusdelonla wrote:


Nets have all their contracts ending in 2019. hence they took on 21m.

Deng has 37m left on his contract over 2 years. nobody is taking that much salary for 2 late 1st rounders


This this THIS.

No sense in crying over spilled milk with the Deng contract. It was unmovable this past summer, but NEXT summer, when you can easily stretch it without giving up ANY assets, and still sign a max guy?

When the Hawks, Magic, & Nets strike out in Free Agency and can each absorb two or three bad expiring deals (the Mahinmis, Biyombos, Noah & Dengs of the world), THAT'S when the opportunity will arise.
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:31 pm    Post subject:

Jesusdelonla wrote:
Deng has 37m left on his contract over 2 years. nobody is taking that much salary for 2 late 1st rounders


I am not 100% sure....but when I was saying this over the last several months, wasn't you one of the people that disagreed with me?
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Jesusdelonla
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:42 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Jesusdelonla wrote:
Deng has 37m left on his contract over 2 years. nobody is taking that much salary for 2 late 1st rounders


I am not 100% sure....but when I was saying this over the last several months, wasn't you one of the people that disagreed with me?


I had 2 1st, 2 2nd and zubac going out.
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